What if he's right?

[Miss Busy]

This was an interesting read….

David Kaiser is a respected historian whose published works have covered a broad range of topics, from European Warfare to American League Baseball. Born in 1947, the son of a diplomat, Kaiser spent his childhood in three capital cities: Washington D.C. , Albany , New York , and Dakar , Senegal .. He attended Harvard University , graduating there in 1969 with a B.A. in history. He then spent several years more at Harvard, gaining a PhD in history, which he obtained in 1976. He served in the Army Reserve from 1970 to 1976.

He is a professor in the Strategy and Policy Department of the United States Naval War College . He has previously taught at Carnegie Mellon, Williams College and Harvard University . Kaiser’s latest book, The Road to Dallas, about the Kennedy assassination, was just published by Harvard University Press.

Dr. David Kaiser

History Unfolding

I am a student of history. Professionally, I have written 15 books on history that have been published in six languages, and I have studied history all my life. I have come to think there is something monumentally large afoot, and I do not believe it is simply a banking crisis, or a mortgage crisis, or a credit crisis. Yes these exist, but they are merely single facets on a very large gemstone that is only now coming into a sharper focus..

Something of historic proportions is happening. I can sense it because I know how it feels, smells, what it looks like, and how people react to it. Yes, a perfect storm may be brewing, but there is something happening within our country that has been evolving for about ten to fifteen years. The pace has dramatically quickened in the past two.

We demand and then codify into law the requirement that our banks make massive loans to people we know they can never pay back? Why?

We learned just days ago that the Federal Reserve, which has little or no real oversight by anyone, has “loaned” two trillion dollars (that is $2,000,000,000,000) over the past few months, but will not tell us to whom or why or disclose the terms. That is our money. Yours and mine. And that is three times the $700 billion we all argued about so strenuously just this past September. Who has this money? Why do they have it? Why are the terms unavailable to us? Who asked for it? Who authorized it? I thought this was a government of “we the people,” who loaned our powers to our elected leaders. Apparently not.

We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing our economy… Why?

We have intentionally dumbed down our schools, ignored our history, and no longer teach our founding documents, why we are exceptional, and why we are worth preserving. Students by and large cannot write, think critically, read, or articulate. Parents are not revolting, teachers are not picketing, school boards continue to back mediocrity. Why?

We have now established the precedent of protesting every close election (violently in California over a proposition that is so controversial that it simply wants marriage to remain defined as between one man and one woman. Did you ever think such a thing possible just a decade ago?) We have corrupted our sacred political process by allowing unelected judges to write laws that radically change our way of life, and then mainstream Marxist groups like ACORN and others to turn our voting system into a banana republic. To what purpose?

Now our mortgage industry is collapsing, housing prices are in free fall, major industries are failing, our banking system is on the verge of collapse, social security is nearly bankrupt, as is Medicare and our entire government. Our education system is worse than a joke (I teach college and I know precisely what I am talking about) – the list is staggering in its length, breadth, and depth.. It is potentially 1929 x ten…And we are at war with an enemy we cannot even name for fear of offending people of the same religion, who, in turn, cannot wait to slit the throats of your children if they have the opportunity to do so.

And finally, we have elected a man that no one really knows anything about, who has never run so much as a Dairy Queen, let alone a town as big as Wasilla , Alaska .. All of his associations and alliances are with real radicals in their chosen fields of employment, and everything we learn about him, drip by drip, is unsettling if not downright scary (Surely you have heard him speak about his idea to create and fund a mandatory civilian defense force stronger than our military for use inside our borders? No? Oh, of course. The media would never play that for you over and over and then demand he answer it. Sarah Palin’s pregnant daughter and $150,000 wardrobe are more important.)

Mr. Obama’s winning platform can be boiled down to one word: Change. Why?

I have never been so afraid for my country and for my children as I am now.

This man campaigned on bringing people together, something he has never, ever done in his professional life. In my assessment, Obama will divide us along philosophical lines, push us apart, and then try to realign the pieces into a new and different power structure. Change is indeed coming. And when it comes, you will never see the same nation again.

And that is only the beginning..

As a serious student of history, I thought I would never come to experience what the ordinary, moral German must have felt in the mid-1930s In those times, the “savior” was a former smooth-talking rabble-rouser from the streets, about whom the average German knew next to nothing. What they should have known was that he was associated with groups that shouted, shoved, and pushed around people with whom they disagreed; he edged his way onto the political stage through great oratory. Conservative “losers” read it right now.

And there were the promises. Economic times were tough, people were losing jobs, and he was a great speaker. And he smiled and frowned and waved a lot. And people, even newspapers, were afraid to speak out for fear that his “brown shirts” would bully and beat them into submission. Which they did – regularly. And then, he was duly elected to office, while a full-throttled economic crisis bloomed at hand – the Great Depression. Slowly, but surely he seized the controls of government power, person by person, department by department, bureaucracy by bureaucracy. The children of German citizens were at first, encouraged to join a Youth Movement in his name where they were taught exactly what to think. Later, they were required to do so. No Jews of course,

How did he get people on his side? He did it by promising jobs to the jobless, money to the money-less, and rewards for the military-industrial complex. He did it by indoctrinating the children, advocating gun control, health care for all, better wages, better jobs, and promising to re-instill pride once again in the country, across Europe , and across the world. He did it with a compliant media – did you know that? And he did this all in the name of justice and …. . … change. And the people surely got what they voted for.

If you think I am exaggerating, look it up. It’s all there in the history books.

So read your history books. Many people of conscience objected in 1933 and were shouted down, called names, laughed at, and ridiculed. When Winston Churchill pointed out the obvious in the late 1930s while seated in the House of Lords in England (he was not yet Prime Minister), he was booed into his seat and called a crazy troublemaker. He was right, though. And the world came to regret that he was not listened to.

Do not forget that Germany was the most educated, the most cultured country in Europe . It was full of music, art, museums, hospitals, laboratories, and universities. And yet, in less than six years (a shorter time span than just two terms of the U. S. presidency) it was rounding up its own citizens, killing others, abrogating its laws, turning children against parents, and neighbors against neighbors.. All with the best of intentions, of course.. The road to Hell is paved with them.

As a practical thinker, one not overly prone to emotional decisions, I have a choice: I can either believe what the objective pieces of evidence tell me (even if they make me cringe with disgust); I can believe what history is shouting to me from across the chasm of seven decades; or I can hope I am wrong by closing my eyes, having another latte, and ignoring what is transpiring around me..

I choose to believe the evidence. No doubt some people will scoff at me, others laugh, or think I am foolish, naive, or both. To some degree, perhaps I am. But I have never been afraid to look people in the eye and tell them exactly what I believe-and why I believe it.

I pray I am wrong. I do not think I am. Perhaps the only hope is our vote in the next elections.

David Kaiser

Jamestown , Rhode Island

United States

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[nuni]

*goes upstairs to make some popcorn for the show*

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[inactive]

I’ll take a stab at this. By nipping it in the bud. It is an incorrect attribution, according to Snopes, which quotes David Kaiser as saying he never wrote it:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proportions.asp

That ought to cover it.

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[wsgolfer]

Bogus : http://snopes.com/politics/soapbox/proportions.asp

*Edit, just saw westseattledood beat me to it. Apologies for the dupe.

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[WSB]

Snopes rocks. Have calmed down so many people in the past five-plus years by pointing to it.

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[inactive]

wsgolfer –

No need to apologize for the duplication of effort, my gosh. However, I would venture that Miss Busy is the one duped.

Might want to check your reading sources there Miss Busy. Just a thought.

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[CarolPB]

David, I thank you for your deep and thorough thought process in reaching such a dreadful conclusion as to equate Obama and Hitler. I can’t help but feel sorry for your offspring because you must have certainly trained them in the ways of the thinking of a fool.

History has taught us many lessons and there is none as foolish as what you deduce from your convoluted irrational thought pattern.

You have have reached conclusions that only nazis can reach due to a lack of an ability or opportunity to think for themselves with equanimity of thought going to their neighbors. Hitler was placed in the position of the leader of a nationalist movement because of his mental deficit and the lemming-like following of his fellow “free thinkers”. Do you forget the millions that were murdered in the name of banking and scientific superiority rather than their ability to think rationally. This whole conspiracy theory was developed because of men like yourself who, while blaming the president for all the sins of the U.S., has chosen to read and dedicate oneself to something thought of and written by one of the most deranged citizens I have had the displeasure of reading and contemplating. I would like to take this moment and pass along a thank you for exposing the fact that there are still idiots in America.

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[dobro]

Right wing cr*p email- the early giveaway in paragraph 7- “mainstream Marxist groups like ACORN”

the demonization and destruction of a group that registers voters is about as anti-democratic,anti-American, and, well, evil as it gets. A putz like this takes some small bits of truth (some of the bank stuff) and churns it into a steaming pile of hate, Nazis,fear, Nazis, conspiracy, Nazis,and bulls**t.

If you want to know something about history, there are several libraries in West Seattle that have lots of books by real historians, not right wing nutbags. Try reading some of them and develop your own ideas. I know, I know, they’re a lot longer that these emails but you might actually learn something.

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[inactive]

CarolPB –

See the Snopes links provided above. David Kaiser did not write that slop. He is quoted in the Snope’s link as saying that the entire piece is against everything he believes. It’s just random internet propaganda circulated which was misappropriated to him for legitimacy. That’s all.

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[pigeonmom]

OK, that was way too long and I didn’t read it.

What is it in a nutshell? (Yes, I’m lazy)

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[miws]

Thank you dood & golfer, for “Snopes-ing” this.

I read it last night, just before I went to bed, (skimming through probably the last half of it due to its length).

It was too late, and was too tired, to even really process the thing, let alone come up with a reply.

Snopes didn’t even cross my mind.

Funny though, if I get something like this as an e-mail forward, I’ll Snopes it immediately.

Mike

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[wsgolfer]

I expect the Snopes fans here will get a kick out of this : http://xkcd.com/250/

:)

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[Ken]

Yes this is the usual rightwing crap and I have had to “snopes” it for some of my deranged redneck relatives before I saw it here.

But what is alarming (and humorously ironic after a couple of stiff drinks) is the growing evidence of massive cognitive dissonance (or rectocranial inversion for the technical term)exhibited by those who pass these on and remain credulous after the debunking.

I just skimmed it this time (and these things keep getting altered and recycled), but the so called “evidence” given all happened during the time frame from Regan to Bush. A line by line analysis would be fun for someone, but I have books to read and computers to fix and staring “teh stupid” in the face is something I try to avoid after all these years.

If you don’t understand that Hitler was a right-wing authoritarian and creationist catholic who was allowed to flourish because he was anti communist (communist = Jew at that time) then your not going to be able to understand the roots of your own movement either.

It is simple demonization and it is not new as a tactic either.

For actual history buffs, here is a place to start matching theory with practice. (Note this is apparently used as a textbook by Frank Luntz)

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/

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[JoB]

methinks this is a case of the right wing pot calling the liberal kettle black…

there is a kernel of truth in all this slop..

“We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing our economy… Why?

We have intentionally dumbed down our schools, ignored our history, and no longer teach our founding documents, why we are exceptional, and why we are worth preserving. Students by and large cannot write, think critically, read, or articulate. Parents are not revolting, teachers are not picketing, school boards continue to back mediocrity. Why?”

for my thinking friends.. i would ask the question.. who has been in charge while this has all been going on???

while the manufacturing jobs have “migrated” overseas..

while factories closed…

while pensions and health plans were bankrupted…

while swindles like Enron crippled or bankrupted our retirement accounts?

while courts upheld the fraudulently inflated energy contracts held by public entitiies?

while the tax code has protected the wealth of corporations and wealthy individuals to create massive deficits and the largest gap between the rich and the upper middle class in our history…

while our public schools have been bankrupted in favor of subsidizing private schools?

while our public infrastructure has fallen apart for lack of maintenance?

while it has become legal for news programs to broadcast material they know is untrue?

all in the name of free trade?

It hasn’t been the democrats.

a closer look at some of the “think tank” organizations that fuel the right wing puts a new perspective on their definition of democracy.

You don’t have to read a single liberal source to understand their ultimate goals. It’s all on their websites for anyone who cares to spend the time reading it.

Cheney outlined the fundamentals of the Bush Junior presidency long before he created it.

What is frightening is that these groups have done such an amazing job meeting their goals that they have sold the left on the political expediency of pandering to their rhetoric and thus their goals.

that’s how we get health care “reform” that will ultimately make our health insurance companies far richer while continuing to support a corrupt and inefficient health care delivery system.

that’s how we get finance industry “bailouts” that allow them to swallow their competition.

that’s how we will get finance reform that will cripple credit unions and other cooperative finance institutions… all in the name of regulating the financial institutions that will ultimately benefit from this legislation.

this article may be a hoax…

but we dismiss it and everything it implies at our own peril.

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[Smitty]

Does anyone “snopes” snopes?

Or “wiki” wiki, for that matter?

I use it all the time, but just curious why they are the gold standard.

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[JoB]

Smitty…

they are the gold standard because they actually research the items they post.

if you as an individual find research that contradicts what they post, you can notify them and if your research information is credible they will amend their posting…

credible evidence is verifiable factual evidence… not repeated unsubstantiated opinions.

i don’t know what snopes does with evidence that doesn’t quite meet verifiable standards.. but i do know that wiki will publish any reasonable half substantiated evidence/argument in their dispute files so that anyone else reading can make up their own mind.

so.. since you are asking.. the same thing that makes makes the dictionary or the encyclopedia you refer to for verification of information the gold standard makes snopes and wiki the internet equivalent.

I admit that historical perspective has put both the dictionary and the encyclopedia on somewhat shaky factual ground at times.. but like snopes and wiki.. it’s what we have…

What separates snopes and wiki from their print counterparts is that everyone has access to the most current information.

Sometimes that makes quite a difference… as anyone who has researched material in multiple sources can verify.

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[JoB]

to add to that post slightly…

we consider factual information to be verified when it is “peer” reviewed… too many times peers have a vested interest in dismissing information contrary to own research and can limit what is published.

the internet has created a new definition of peer review… anyone can publish and the pool of experts who fact check and test the logic of new information is limitless.

that can make for lively discussion.. but it also can provide the factual basis for accepting or rejecting any premise.

that access to information is why it is so important for information exchange on the internet to remain largely unrestricted.

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[CarolPB]

sorry I bit-there were no other posts when I started writing, and I was #7 by the time I hit enter. Thanks!

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[HMC Rich]

Regarding Post 14. JoB, you would make an outstanding NASCAR driver. You keep turning left!

I am writing about your inference that all the problems were caused by Republicans the last 30 years.

Let’s look at who has been in the majority first in the House in the last century and the last decade. I will use Wikipedia as the source. Please scroll down to the List Of Party Leaders. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_leaders_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives

Now the Senate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_leaders_of_the_United_States_Senate

In the House from 1930 to 1994 the Democrats were the majority party except for four years or so during Ike. From 1994 to 2007 the Republicans were the majority for 12 years and in the last four years the Democrats took the majority. From 1980 to current time the Democrats held the House for 18 years and the Republicans 12.

The Senate shows us from 1932 until 1980 the Democrats had control except for four years. From 1980 the Republicans held an edge in the Senate for 16 years and the Democrats 14.

From the start of the 1900’s to the 30’s The Republicans were the majority party.

Your statement about Republicans only in power for the last thirty years is not correct. Government has steadily grown since the turn of the century when Republicans and Democrats were Progressives.

Now we are seeing a true difference in the politicians that are being elected. Blame Republicans all you want but the Democrats were right there too.

For almost 50 years the Democrats were the majority in both houses. I don’t blame them for every bad piece of legislation.

On some other parts of posts I can agree with you on but the blame lays with both parties. Sometimes Republicans fault and sometimes Democrats fault. I would like to say there was some bi-partisan legislation along the way that both parties own.

Now, we see the Progressive movement manifesting itself openly and we see the Conservative movement growing, expanding and the moderates of both parties getting squeezed. RINO’s and Blue Dog’s are getting more scarce.

This isn’t all bad. I personally tire of campaign’s where all politicians act middle of the road and then drift way left (or right some would say)when in office.

Reichert is a RINO. He is a good man and mostly conservative. McDermott is not a Blue Dog. He feels he is correct. So be it. We get to choose every 2, 4, or 6 years. It is our fault too. We elect these people.

With the mood of the country still changing the upcoming Senate race is going to be interesting. Will there be CHANGE?!

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[JoB]

HMCRich..

i am tired so i am not going to sugarcoat this.

do you even read the material on the think tank websites that fuel your rhetoric? you should. Because every result i listed is on those sites as a specific goal. It’s right there.. in writing… from the horse’s mouth so to speak.

I think those were right wing goals because their websites tell me in plain english that those were their goals.

as for your manipulation of the data to prove democrats have always been in control.. you probably know as well as i do that the largest amount of influence over the issues named is exerted through administrative action.. and you know who has primarily controlled administrative action in the United States for the last few decades.

Sorry dude. Man up.

While our elected democrats aren’t riding around in white hats.. they are pikers in comparison to those who have been systematically looting our national wealth.

I don’t lean left.. i lean far left of left.

Somehow all that tilt still hasn’t stopped me from having a mind and using it to build a good argument. You should try it. It’s very liberating.

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[CarolPB]

JoB-I love you!

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[acemotel]

OMG! I hope one day I need computer repair, just so I can meet the person who could come up with “rectocranial inversion” I mean it is genius!!! Is this a common expression, or did you make it up? I may be living a sheltered life, as I’ve not heard it. OR if you invented it, Ken: brilliant! I’m not kidding.

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[JoB]

CarolPB..

thanks.. but i’m with acemotel..

i love Ken. He inspires me.

i decided on my 60 b-day that i had earned the right to be a cranky old lady… and i have proceeded accordingly…

tho i am told no-one but me can see the difference ;->

politics as a national sport has nearly bankrupted our nation.. morally as well as financially… i think it’s way past time we all started thinking things through…

we have been so brainwashed by the right wing advertising machine that even liberal lites think they are progressive…

Worshiping the “free market” which is a true contradiction in terms as it is applied to today’s corporate hogfest has brought us companies whose corporate negligence creates immense public burden… and labeled the indigent the corporate gutting of America has created as leeches feeding at the public trough.

Christian charity has been rephrased as tough love and no longer contains anything resembling the helping hand charity implies. In fact the term Christian has been so corrupted by politispeak that i am hesitant any ore to admit that i am a Christian because of all that now implies.

I don’t much like the America rhetoric has created… I have heard “America.. love it or leave it” my entire adult life.. and as we begin to contemplate retirement.. i am sorely tempted to change my answer.

Patriotism.. love of my country.. is still what prevents me from just walking away.

I agree with HMCRich that our upcoming mid-term elections are important… but for entirely different reasons.

the integrity of the democratic party.. if it can be said to still contain integrity.. is about to be decided. If democrats don’t turn out in huge numbers to support their candidates.. it will teach their party the wrong lesson. Instead of teaching them that they need to legislate to the party’s base to earn elections.. it will teach them to pander even more to that great american undecided… as influenced by FOX.

i too am holding my breath for the mid-terms… not so much to see if democrats win… but to see if it is going to make any difference that they do.

I have hope.. but in the meantime I am doing research on our retirement options… an enjoyable process no matter where we retire… since it requires on site investigation:)

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[dawsonct]

I’ll bet Miss Busy has been pretty busy the last year or so, I mean, haven’t you all noticed, there’s a black man in the White House! And he’s not a waiter!

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[dawsonct]

Missy has never had anything to comment about before, hasn’t come back to discuss the OP since. This qualifies as “dialogue” for most connedservatives. Find something in the internet that supports their biases, and then spread it around virally without doing any research to determine the veracity of the article. Then when anyone points out the truth the defense is almost always, “well, I don’t believe that.”

—

More long-term damage from children’s tales; it is NOT true that if you believe in something hard enough it comes true. Faith is important, but it shouldn’t stand in for fact.

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