West Seattle PCC “Real Change” Vendor

[JanS]

I have stayed out of the fray here. When I go by PCC or shop there, this person, Yvonne, is never sitting at the door…she is at least 15-20 ft. from the door sitting on a chair, just like someone sitting there having a latte. Yes, she holds up her paper, but she has never ever asked me to buy one. I park in the handicapped spots by the door, I wave at her, she says hi back, tells me to have a great day when I leave. I don’t buy a paper from every vendor at every store, just as when I donate to Salvation Army, I do it once…it’s my donation to the bell ringer, and then I donate whatever else privately as I can afford it.

I would understand the gripe about vendors , referring to her by some, if she was in your face, begging you to buy. But unless you’re walking from the more northern area of Calif. Ave., you’re not even getting close to her. If you park your car in the lot just go get a cart at the other door, and get on with your shopping.

So…what’s the argument here? Yvonne and PCC seem to have settled their differences…isn’t that enough?

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[alki_2008]

JoB – I’m getting laid-off, so if someone wants my job right now then they can have it. It’s gone soon anyway. Sorry – still a bit bitter about that. ;)

But seriously, to answer the questions you directed to me:

“do you really think Yvonne should lose her position.. and the business that she built… so that another Real Change vendor has a chance?”

YES, I think it’s fair to have Yvonne move to another location. I’m not saying she shouldn’t sell RC ANYwhere, just that if another RC vendor wanted the PCC spot then they should have the option…especially if it’s true that she’s beyond the 2-year limit. If anyone takes a job knowing that there’s a time limit, then they need to abide by those limits. She CAN go to another location. Do you think Yvonne should stay at PCC after Whole Foods opens? Maybe Whole Foods would be a better spot and she’d get more $$ there. Personally, my job is going to another state. If I want to keep it then I have to move – otherwise, I’m out of a job. That’s life…the “real world”. I don’t have a “right” to my job. If the employer says ‘move’, then I can’t fight that.

“do you support Real Change vendors by purchasing their newspaper?”

No, I don’t buy any papers. I read news online. If I did buy RC’s paper, then I wouldn’t go out-of-my-way to buy it from one RC vendor or another. If I don’t shop at PCC, then I’m not going to go there just to buy RC from Yvonne or anyone else at that spot. I’ll buy RC from whichever vendor is conveniently located. I’d venture to guess that most people do the same.

Just for the sake of argument. Do we know if Yvonne is in the 600-club? I don’t know, so I’m asking. There are assertions here that she is selling a lot of papers, so just wondering. Selling the paper is the business…just having people give money is not.

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[JoB]

alki_2008

i am so sorry you are losing your job… i don’t wish that on anyone…

we too are worried about the stability of hubby’s job.. and would probably have to move out of the NW again if he lost that job.

We did 5 years in St Paul after the last big programmer layoffs :(((

We were very glad to get back to the NW and want to stay.

although it is Real Change’s general policy that their vendors move on within a couple of years, Yvonne is not the only Real Change vendor to create a business at one location and stay there longer than 2 years..

i know of at least one other who has been at his station in the University District much longer…

he is there for the same reason that Yvonne is back at PCC.. he had public support.

As to Yvonne’s status.. i am pretty sure she is in the 600-club… but not positive.

I do go out of my way to buy my Real Change from Yvonne… and generally i don’t tip her.. although i did after the cut in income she suffered from being released from her location at PCC…

i am fairly certain there are others who do the same… i buy from her because i like her… and because she is pretty reliable.. i know where i can find her.

When i am in the university district i buy from the guy there too.. for the same reason.

I did hear from someone reliable at PCC that there had been complaints made in the store that had not been forwarded to Real Change.

I have no idea what those complaints were and i didn’t ask after hearing that they weren’t sufficient to forward to the Real Change organization…

but if she was released because of serious complaints about her behavior… after being warned about infractions… i would be the first to support PCCs action.

I just don’t support denying someone the location where they have built a good business for no other reason than giving someone else a turn…

as for whether she should move to Whole Foods when it opens… i don’t know… it’s a decision she will have to make for herself if she continues to serve her customers well enough to keep her current location.

if i were her.. i would stay where i was… but it’s not my decision to make.

****

i think this is what has bothered me most here…

the assumption that because she didn’t have a “regular” job that she shouldn’t have the right to keep a vendor location she had earned or the right to decide to change locations.

Real Change vendors are independent businesspeople.. they earn your business and loyalty just like any other business person..

They deserve the same kind of respect we give to any other independent salesperson…

even if their product is the Real Change magazine.

As for the personal generosity of some of her patrons… i have to confess that i over tip anyone who gives me good service…

it’s what i do.. i don’t expect anyone else to do the same and probably wouldn’t over tip anyone who expected me to do so…

but then, i fed my children from my tips once.. i know what a difference those tips can make when you are on a tight budget…

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[Totally_Anonymous]

There have been some really mean things said on this thread. Get a life!

Yvonne is a very sweet person who would not ever intentionally hurt anyone, and I know her personally. If she’s assertive about someone coming in on her “turf”…what if Burger King decided to set up a stand inside McDonalds?

If one doesn’t like being accosted by vendors, panhandlers, etc., shop at amazonfresh.com, safeway.com, never leave the house and stop interacting with other humans.

I agree with Kayleigh2! I do hope that no one does to Charley what he’s been doing to her behind her back.

Well, what goes around, comes around.

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[Kevin]

I have to admire anyone attempting to sell RC. I know a RC vendor downtown and we are on a first name basis. I think he said he makes about 60 cents on each paper sold – but there is a catch.

You have to be a good business person to make any money at it. If you don’t buy enough papers then you may not have enough for your “regulars” but if you buy too many you just lost money because RC does not buy back the papers you don’t sell.

As a side note, some of the vendors sell some really nice looking lapel buttons with RC logo on a white background. So for those reading RC online, think about supporting your vendor with a button purchase.

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[PCC4Life]

I know this subject seems to have died down but I feel I had to add my two cents to the issue. I’ve worked for PCC for years and have experienced the last three years at the west Seattle store living with Yvonne. I’ve experienced a full rang of emotions from compassion to genuine disgust. I’ve spent a lot of time speaking with Yvonne trying to pin down her exact situation before I came to a point where I would pass judgment on another person. This is what I’ve learned, Yvonne was unemployed for a couple of weeks after loosing a job in data entry position and had to live with people because she couldn’t afford rent, IE homeless. I asked her why she wouldn’t want to work for PCC, everyone who shops there already loves here and she could easily work with us, she let me know that she didn’t want to work for anyone else. It would be to stressful and she preferred working for herself and had hopes of starting her own buissness with her real change funds. Yvonne does in deed make more money than any of the employees working in the store. I’ve spent hours watching the generosity of customers and I can accurately say she easily makes $20 plus dollars an hour not to mention all of her free meals and gifts that are given to her. The turning point for me was watching her return a complete Thanksgiving dinner PCC had bought her because a customer had bought her a dinner with a larger bird. I’ve seen her turn away sandwiches because they were not organic and turn her nose at drinks because it wasn’t the flavor she preferred. The exact situation that turned my perspective on Yvonne was a couple of thanksgivings ago. I’m sure you all remember the terrible wind storm that left so many of us with out power, well I remember Yvonne telling us about her schedule for the day. She was going to meet one family for early dinner at 11a.m. and another at 3p.m. and another for late dessert at 7p.m. Is that not taking advantage of people’s generosity? Dinner hopping in the name of charity? I will be totally honest and say that I have grown to resent Yvonne and even jealous of the fact that she makes more money than me, but why not? A good portion of the people that work for PCC genuinely care about our customers, our environment, and making a change for all of us. I gave up a higher paying job in order to work in my community and make an environmental change for the good of all of us and what a slap in the face it is to see this person taking advantage of a situation where generosity is being so readily handed out by our customers. The truth is PCC requested another R/C vendor because we thought it was only fare that another person who needed help should receive the generosity of our customers. Yvonne has been at the store for three very prosperous years and has no intention of leaving, and after that time she basically exploited and threatened us after asking her to leave and strong-armed us into letting her stay. There are 9 PCC’s and lots of other caring people in Seattle, share the wealth and move on. I’ll end this by relaying another story with you. I ride the bus home with Yvonne every night (I donated my car to charity to lessen my impact). We were riding home and she was reading a book, the title “think rich, grow rich”. Give your money to a better cause, please.

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[Traci]

PCC4Life, you just made my day. That was awesome and I couldn’t agree more.

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[Anonymous]

Thank-you PCC4Life. All of us who agree with you were treated like heartless bastards on here. I appreciate your willingness to share the *on the street* perspective. Your store and customers are being taken advantage of, and PCC took the (unjustified) blame for this situation.

I think most of us are willing and wanting to help the homeless. Especially those trying so hard to help themselves. Real Change contributes greatly to this premise. This particular vendor, however, is a con artist in my opinion.

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[hollyplace]

Interestingly I have a friend who also worked for PCC and had similar stories as PCC4Life about Yvonne. She said that her husband offered Yvonne a job making $16 an hour and she wasn’t even interested, and told him that she makes well over $20 an hour just visiting with people and selling papers. Good for her for her success, but I agree that it might be time for someone else to have a chance to work that turf. PCC would be smart to start a policy for Real Change vendors that would give them a limit for how long a person can work that “turf”. Maybe 6 months?

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[WSMom]

I’ve sort of followed this link without comment because I wasn’t sure we had the whole story with PCC and Yvonne; I figured the truth would surface and the right thing done. I’m only commenting now because I’m not sure why anyone would consider Yvonne a con artist. She’s never asked me for money, just smiles and says hello when I walk by. She dresses in colorful clothes and makes herself available for friendly conversation. She’s at her post consistently, which is probably why she’s successful. That she allows people to give her gifts of food and money, and is sometimes picky about which food gifts she accepts…I guess I just don’t see why that’s so bad. I’m a picky eater and won’t eat what doesn’t appeal to me. Yvonne doesn’t look too hungry to me, so I guess she can afford to be picky too. I haven’t heard of anyone with a story of how they were taken in by her tale of woe. It seems to me that people appreciate her happy personality and want to buy a paper from her because they like her. Call me naive, but I just don’t see how her being a good newspaper salesperson makes her a con artist. Since Real Change is a business which needs to sell papers to survive, I can’t imagine it would be in their best interest to “fire” one of their top producers because she’s doing too well. (IMO, moving her from the location where she has built a good business is tantamount to firing her as she’d have to rebuild from scratch most likely.)

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[Anonymous]

The premise of Real Change is advocacy for ending homelessness by addressing poverty and the lack of affordable housing. Producing newspapers is but ONE part of that mission.

As a newspaper vendor, it is not required to prove hardship and need, but it is however assumed.

*Our publication is sold by Seattle’s homeless*

It is also clear their intent is to be a transitional opportunity for the poor and homeless.

*Vendor services: We will clarify our

employment niche by building links to NEXT STEP EMPLOYMENT PROGRAMS and establishing a role as

a low threshold human services ENTRY POINT.*

They obviously don’t ask anyone to stop selling. But it is also obvious, the employment is designed as temporary.

Yvonne has self reported that she is neither homeless or poor. Yet we are led to believe by Real Change that both those conditions exists in their vendors. Yvonne is perpetuating this myth while she actually makes more money than PCC’s employees. In my view, she is conning those who are not aware of her circumstances.

Not to mention, PCC is private property, and they requested a replacement vendor. Why is no one standing in support of what their favorite store wants? You read right here how the they are being strong armed and threatened if they don’t continue to allow Yvonne to work on their property. How is that fair or right? Is it ok for someone to stand in your driveway and work against your wishes?

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[BarbG]

Excellent post JT.

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[Keith]

“Yvonne is perpetuating this myth while she actually makes more money than PCC’s employees.”

Speaking of perpetuating myths, let’s keep in mind that those accusations made about Yvonne came from an anonymous, unverified source.

To me, the post from PCC4Life had the distinct flavor of organic-certified sour grapes. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that people are eating it right up… and loving it!

Of course, the accusations could be true. And if PCC4Life really has “spent hours” on the job paying such close attention to Yvonne’s earnings, activities, interactions, and flavor preferences, it’s no wonder that a Real Change vendor is making more money. Judge not a slacker lest ye also be slacking off. ;)

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[HMC Rich]

Can we look at the positives here? More and more information is coming out to give everyone more perspective. Yvonne has proven to be a great vendor for Real Change. She has flourished and has become a successful independent contractor with a self employment goal.

The people of West Seattle are very generous in trying to help out their fellow human beings.

PCC is a store that caters to a certain type of consumer which many people who shop at that store are loyal customers. They also allow a vendor to shop their newspaper on private grounds and really do not have to.

Personally, I have found her to be a very nice person. Why should she change what she does if it benefits her? On the other hand, it could be possible that the store wanted to help out someone who could use more help. It is their property and with their past performance on seeming to care about us, maybe a little trust might be or might have been warranted on their decision.

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[AlkiRagdoll]

Gee — based on PCC4Life’s comments, I dont think I will shop at PCC anymore. PCC sounds like a really lousy employer. Seems to me if a store manager knew that his/her employees were so dissatisfied and didnt do anything about it, it was asking for turnover. Further, if the employees feel that a customer/vendor is taking advantange of the company, they should be doing something about it. I agree – makes me wonder about sour grapes. A while ago, I posted a suggestion that the manager should sit down with the parties (employees, customers, adn Yvonne) and bring the issue to a resolution. Too bad that by appearannces that has not happened. I think I will stay away from PCC and shop elsewhere.

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[JanS]

I think it would be beneficial to all if maybe we could hear from the management at PCC, and get the official real information, and not that from a disgruntled employee. There are 2 sides to this, and I don’t believe we’ve actually heard either one fully, not that it’s really our business. It’s between Yvonne, PCC, and Real Change, I think. PCC has allowed her to stay. I can’t believe that this big grocery store is being blackmailed to let her stay. So…in my head, all’s well. The emp[loyee who posted above needs to talk with her/his boss, and with management to air her/his grievences IMO.

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[alki_2008]

Wow, I didn’t think this thread would start up again.

To those that say they don’t see how PCC is being ‘forced’ to let Yvonne stay. Wasn’t the entire start of this thread how people should convince PCC to let Yvonne stay? When people start threatening to boycott shopping at a store unless they let someone stay on their property, then that’s ‘forced’/’blackmailed’/etc.

To those that think Yvonne is making her money by doing good ‘business’ and not by taking the gratitude of others – please note that the profit of each paper sold is 60-65 cents each, and only 11% of RC vendors sold more than 600 papers/month (2007 data). That implies that only the top 11% are getting more than $390/month. If Yvonne is able to afford housing, cell phone, utilities, food, etc – then she’s making the bulk of her money from “CHARITY”, not from “SALES”. And I’d assume that the generosity of her ‘customers’ is based on a presumption that Yvonne is in actual NEED.

I don’t think anyone has actually verified that Yvonne is a member of the ‘600 club’ (it would be indicated on her badge). Advocates for Yvonne here keep saying that Yvonne is such a great paper seller, but how about some actual stats of how many papers she sells compared to other RC vendors? If she’s not in the 600-club, then she doesn’t have a right to ‘keep’ her spot from another RC vendor that wants it…based on RC’s policies, regardless of PCC or any other business that an RC vendor works in front of.

PCC is a great community supporter, so there’s no reason for pro-Yvonne or anti-Yvonne posters to change their PCC shopping habits. Instead, how about changing their RC shopping habits. I know there are many othe RC vendors out there that are in much more need that Yvonne (assuming the posts ala PCC4life are true) and would be thrilled to have any type of sandwich or other food so they don’t have to go to sleep hungry.

“Real Change is a hand up, not a handout.”

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[JoB]

Real Change is a self employment opportunity…

all self employment opportunities are hand ups not hand outs.

since when do we advocate denying a self employed person the opportunity to retain their location based on their success?

If you think Real Change or any other self employment outside sales opportunity is such a great deal … please avail yourself of the opportunity.

you will give up the accounting convenience of employer deductions for taxes, medical benefits, insurance, health savings accounts and unemployment insurance… to name the most common employment benefits…

but if you really think you can do better… you should give it a try.

one of the bonuses of being self employed is that you are often tipped for superior service… even when you are not engaging in occupations that are traditionally funded by tips.

You are that good.. aren’t you???

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[What The]

I had a dream tonight that this thread was accidentally deleted…

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[JoB]

I had a dream last night that those who are so jealous of even the smallest success of any other person that they will go to any lengths to destroy them woke up with just enough self confidence to make it through the day without thinking they had to destroy someones else’s opportunity to make one for themselves.

it really is a shame that it was a dream.

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[Sky2625]

I really liked HMCRich’s last post. Hooray for positives.

Here’s an entrepreneurial idea:

1) Yvonne stays at PCC but leaves Real Change.

2) PCC pays her minimum wage to keep up PCCs PR. 3) Yvonne starts up her own business selling RC papers.

4) She buys up leftover papers from other RC sellers at less than $0.40 per paper, and sells them at PCC for full-price, maintaining or improving on the $0.60 profit margin.

5) Meanwhile, she’s got the publicity and recognition to maintain her client base, and she’ll have to work to collect all of the perks and generosity from her station at PCC.

6) RC cycles other sellers in to her position when she’s off-hours, giving them a chance to get on their feet.

7) Yvonne supports other RC sellers by buying up their surplus, conributing some of her success.

Yvonne’s on her own two feet. PCC gets to support other RC sellers. RC continues its mission with support from another business person.

Everybody wins!

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[JoB]

sky2625…

why should Yvonne jump through those hoops?

why should any of us spend time thinking up hoops for her to jump through?

tho.. i was by there today and didn’t see her.

i hope she’s well.

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