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November 8, 2011 at 6:19 am #738416
JanSParticipantand I think windmill farms are beautiful…
November 8, 2011 at 8:29 am #738417
kootchmanMemberJan… you should take a trip to the rest station at Indian Joe ridge… and see what was sacrificed. The overlook of the largest granite escarpment in North America… it is butt ass ugly
November 8, 2011 at 9:19 am #738418
JanSParticipantwhere exactly is Indian Joe Ridge…I’m not finding anything called that in Google…
November 8, 2011 at 3:49 pm #738419
JoBParticipantkootch…
have you taken a good look at a coal power plant?
better yet, have you lived downwind from one?
now THAT is ugly.
did you know that on the Island of Kuai’i…
an island with plenty of wind resources
and a huge area where those wind resources could be utilized without ruining a single view
local power is supplied by a coal plant.
Have you ever sat next to a nuclear plant and remarked on it’s beauty?
I guess it is in the eye of the beholder but while it was running, every time i made the turn on I-5 that revealed Trojan i shuddered.
Talk about marring the beauty of a great river.
And what the heck do you think the dams that created electric power stations did to the beauty of the river valleys they flooded.. not to mention those lovely power lines radiating across our land.
How on earth can you cite the ugliness of wind turbins as a reason not to explore much cleaner technology with a straight face?
November 8, 2011 at 4:35 pm #738420
kootchmanMemberIt’s the last rest stop after you hit the pass coming out of Ellensburg… used to called Injun Joe… then got pc’d… it’s the granite escarpment as you look across the former Anderson ranch. Yea, I have seen coal plants. I have also seen natural gas plants which are the current trending plants. Have you seen a new coal plant? No? That’ because of the wackos… new plants have electrostatic precipitators, horizontal flue scrubbers and low NOx processes. Fine, and that wind blows steady..while we contend with inversions that stall wind driven power. Sorry, we need “flip the switch” reliability and wind and solar can’t do it. IF it was economical we would have it. The Bird Choppers are erratic. Have you gone within 5 miles of a wind farm and listened to the harmonics? It has driven endangered ground owls out of their habitat, disrupted all manner of wildlife behaviors. Using mechanical devices, driven by wind, is a step backwards in technology. Hell even the ranches in Wyoming use reliable electric pumps, long ago abandoning wind driven pumps for irrigation. Too unreliable. NASA was working on triatomic hydrogen,.cut the budget to pay for Obamacare. while we want to back to 19th century tech. Those dams were at the time were cutting technology. That’s the bitch about committing to populist capital expenditures. Did I not see Rachel Maddow chirruping in front of the Grand Coulee about how valiant the sacrifice of infrastructure developments of our predecessors? We are also tearing down dams to restore natural habitat. You think transmission lines are ugly? De-centralized power grid contributors mean… MORE transmission lines. More mining for cable, … your love affair with wind power is admirable, but it too has consequences. Let;s see ya run a Kaiser smelter on wind, or a Bessemer furnace… So far centralized power generation is more cost effective…. and here’s the great part.. our utility bills are going UP…JoB… because of conservation…. only in Seattle.
November 8, 2011 at 4:43 pm #738421
kootchmanMemberyea this is sooo beautiful… aboutas attractive as billboards. Relable? The don’t produce until the wind is above 9 mph and max out when the wind is 31 mph… AND it has altred the elk migration patterns to and from the grazing areas. The net effect will be unknown for decades… tamper, tamper, tamper… mother nature invariably tells us it was a FU.
Here ya go… you think 1000 windmills has a lower environmental foot print than a site specific generation facility?
Wild Horse Wind Farm is a 229-megawatt wind farm built by Puget Sound Energy The towers are 221 feet tall, and the diameter of each rotor is 264 feet, larger than the wingspan of a Boeing 747. The turbines can begin producing electricity with wind speeds as low as 9 mph and reach full production at 31 mph. They shut down at sustained wind speeds of 56 mph
Turbines with spans bigger than a 747 wing? That’s your def of eco friendly? And that 229 rating is MAXIMUM output… which is less than 4 per cent of the time.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/greenhuman/files/library/wild_horse_wind.jpg
November 8, 2011 at 5:19 pm #738422
kootchmanMemberYou eco warriors….. this is what we gave up courtesy of The Messiah and overspending into deficit oblivion. That’s ok… we will have windmills and rolling brownouts.. while China, Japan, Russia, continues on with their research. Russia is planning for H3 extraction on the moon surface… we are putting up windmills.
This a great article…. a little pedestrian, but a good general interest and overview.
November 8, 2011 at 6:18 pm #738423
DBPMemberNovember 8, 2011 at 10:28 pm #738424
kootchmanMembertoo tough to fight facts eh?
November 8, 2011 at 10:58 pm #738425
JanSParticipantdon’t fool yourself..
November 9, 2011 at 12:46 am #738426
JoBParticipantkootch…
if they were more economical we would have had them by now?
no… if they made someone else enough money we would have had them by now
November 9, 2011 at 4:39 am #738427
redblackParticipantNo it was George Bush .. but I do thank Clinton.. I got a bite of another side of the apple.
wrong again, kootch! wow. you’re on a tear.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/17/smallbusiness/small_business_new_tax_credits/index.htm
from the article titled, “Own a business? 6 new tax breaks.” January 17, 2011:
Super-charged ‘Section 179’ provision: OK, this one is a little wonky. But it’s worth knowing about.
The extension of “Section 179” of the tax code allows businesses to write off the full amount of qualifying equipment or computer software made in 2010 or 2011, up to $500,000 per business, per year.
What qualifies? Think tractors, robots and equipment. New and used items are eligible but, sorry, buildings aren’t.
Instead of having to deduct your capital expenditures slowly, the temporary change to Section 179 allows businesses to get more cash up front.
again: thank democrats for helping your small business.
November 9, 2011 at 4:45 am #738428
redblackParticipantthen there’s this super-charged rant, which i’ll break down line by line:
So, in a hypothetical world, I earn 300K . I pay my tax liability. What’s left is mine.
agreed. no argument.
Now, I take that money, I invest in job creating company. I picked right, the company is successful, jobs were created. I sell those shares and get taxed again?
did you make a profit on the sale?
pay the man.
Nuts to that.
thief.
On the other hand, I take that very same revenue which I paid taxes on, and since it no longer has a tax liability attached to it, I send it offshore where it can grow and I can prosper and preserve earnings.
want to bring that profit back to the u.s. for your personal gain?
pay the man.
see how easy this is?
November 9, 2011 at 5:55 pm #738429
kootchmanMemberNope..doesn’t work that way. This incessant clamoring for attaching every revenue stream to a government tax scheme is simple gamesmanship. I made that profit on previously taxed earning. I can be as creative avoiding as they are at confiscating…or follow the lead of even more creative folks to shelter what was previously taxed. Capital gain taxes is punishment for me investing in American companies and jobs. There are hundreds of ways to avoid the taxes dude. Your analogy is like the farmer who wants to increase his profit by not buying fertilizer…eventually you exhaust the productivity base. .Buy agriculture land and let it lay fallow, wanna know the land taxes on wooded tree lots with no economic activity? These are easy decisions to make. Make just enough to pay property taxes, deduct them from earning, and ride the rising equity. That does no good for job creation now does it? The idea of low or no capital gains is to get capital into production. You shoot yourself in the foot. See how easy that is? Dividend income, should be taxable… but taxing away the investment capital base… that is destructive. When I sell those theoretical stocks, that means I have yet more to invest… fueling more growth, more jobs,… passive or active depends on the tax implications. You do the same thing.. you get loaded up with non taxable benefits..same effect. You should be paying for every matching dollar in your pension fund from your employer, all your healthcare premiums, etc… it’s untaxed income dude.
November 9, 2011 at 6:08 pm #738430
kootchmanMemberNo I got the break from the Bush Small Business Investment Tax Credits, which gave a 100% expense write off up to 100K… although Obama did copy it and carry it forward. I haven’t made enough money in the Obama era to purchase new stuff. Sad to say the benefit is pretty much irrelevant until the economy rebounds. Say 2012 if all breaks right.
November 9, 2011 at 9:54 pm #738431
DBPMemberSir, you did not speak to my last comment. Shall I take your silence as assent to the fact that Beyonce did indeed have one of the best videos of all time?
Ah . . . I remember it still — as if anyone could ever forget! She was wearing little more than sequins and a smile. And I? I was wearing a comfortable old sweater and jeans, reclining in a dingy grey La-Z-Boy, deeply immersed in one of the best novels of all time . . .
Whatcha readin’, shugga? she cooed, running her hands lustily through the tangled mat of my hair, tracing the outlines of my spectacles with a finger of bejeweled ebony.
— A book, I replied.
What’s it about, scrunchious?
— It’s about . . . Russia . . . Um . . . look, honey. I know you’re eager to hit the sack and everything, but I’m just getting to good part right now, so why don’t you just run along upstairs and hop into bed? I’ll turn in when I get to the end of this chapter, ‘kay? C’mon, kiss-kiss . . . Love you! G’night!
— Aw Beyonce! Sugar! Now don’t y’all go makin’ those pouty faces at me again now . . .
— Oh, all right. Keep your sequins on, sweetheart. I’m coming; I’m coming.
(For God’s sake, I thought . . . Women!!)
November 9, 2011 at 10:31 pm #738432
BostonmanMemberOh I am so torn on this one. Could I possibly be taking the same side as Redblack? I agree that money that has been taxed and is used to create a business that is then sold you should pay taxes over your investment. If you reinvest money it increases your capital investment on your next business and you repeat the scenario.
There should be no way to earn tax free income through capital investment other than say muni bonds.
November 10, 2011 at 2:44 am #738433
JoBParticipantBostonman…
it simply makes sense…
if profit is made
tax should be paid
it doesn’t matter whether the profit centers that dollar passes through all belong to the original taxpayer or not.
November 11, 2011 at 2:47 am #738434November 11, 2011 at 10:49 pm #738435
kootchmanMemberI didn’t see the Beyonce video… but I am sure it was a good one. Sure JoB… IF profit is made. Now here comes the cool part. Ready? Take the capital OUT of the stream. Put it where is non taxable. There are endless options to shelter and delay tax liability by withdrawing it from an active market where a taxable event occurs. notes, commercial paper, gold, whatever suits your risk appetite. It’s pretty fungible too…when a better yield or potential return hits…ya sell it for a discount and then convert it. While it is being protected though.. no taxes. Ya might lose a couple of points…against a corporate or individual tax rate? That’s an easy choice. The original question though is why no jobs? It’s a wait and see game. obviously after three years, they are less impatient and can outlast your pleading for more taxes..I would say they are far ahead in this stand off. When you ask the business community why they are not investing… then they tell you, and then you tell them they are wrong… would you invest in that logic? The money ain’t comin’ off the sidelines until it can do what it is supposed to do..maximize the returns of the holder. That so happens to mean jobs too. It’s all about preservation at the moment. You really should turn the big money making machine lose… it will help. Give propping up government spending a break for a couple of years… DBP… MORE tax credits? That’s no different than increasing government spending. Wanna know when To invest in green energy? When it can pay for itself. Amazing… I see oil hit 100 bucks today … and natural gas fell 13%…. that’s the cycle, better exploration and extraction technologies and natural gas gets cheaper and cheaper. Your tax credits means you transfer the tax obligation to someone else. It’s also very regressive… all those green energy credits went to those who could lay out the 20K for new windows…? Utility rates went up because of dropping utility revenues… and guess who got stuck? The poor who never imagined a remodel for 20K was in the cards… cause it wasn’t. Their consumption remained the same and their unit costs rose. So we had to come up with subsidized energy programs… more taxes.
November 12, 2011 at 12:26 am #738436
JoBParticipantNovember 12, 2011 at 12:58 am #738437
kootchmanMemberIt’s not your money. It’s not blackmail. It’s not cheating..It’s legal. Blackmail is a crime. A felony even. The Messiah delays the pipeline for votes from his green cadre.. I guess he did the calculations, more greenies than union labor… it was only 25,000 jobs for welders and heavy equipment operators. Now we are going to use the oil anyway… we all know that. We will just purchase it offshore, furthering our trade imbalance. And heating oil futures just went through the roof and gasoline prices national average are $3.46 gallon and headed higher.. very regressive JoB…very regressive.
November 12, 2011 at 5:29 pm #738438
JoBParticipantkootch…
Whether the jobs are on a pipeline
or in a seaport
they are still union jobs.
and that 25,000 jobs number..
vastly inflated
it included minimum wage support jobs for the workers..
and if my info was correct, illegal sex workers too.
And…
heating oil futures didn’t rise because of a pipeline that doesn’t exist
they rose because of speculation
speculation that the alternative to the pipeline will be more costly.
speculation is always results regressive policies kootch
but you know that.
that’s the point isn’t it.
all that money they make speculating doesn’t come from the space between the ears of traders
it comes out of our pocketbooks.
November 12, 2011 at 5:31 pm #738439
JoBParticipantbtw…
all those loopholes…
legal only if applies to the letter and intent of the law
that’s why the IRS penalizes cheaters.
and it’s also why cheaters want to shrink the government…
a smaller government means less oversight
and less chance of getting caught
November 12, 2011 at 5:51 pm #738440
kootchmanMemberNo the law does not penalize intent… the law penalizes the letter of the law, in the tax code all the elements of an illegal act are pretty specific….devining intent is not in the realm of tax courts..thats Supreme Court stuff… Eliminate the loopholes and you eliminate the dodges.. and the source of much corruption. The bigger our government gets the more corrupt it gets… tell me that isn’t true. Look at all the goodies being smeared around from the Department of Energy!! Now they are pretending to be business savvy, allocating political favors, and breaking the law to boot. JoB speculators don’t weave whole cloth out of thin air… speculators look at a myriad of factors which will effect supply and demand, and purchase the rights to buy at a future date at an agreed upon price. Here’s the thing about speculators… for every winner there is a loser. Someone was wrong Zero sum game. Droughts mean grain futures go into play. Political instability, same. Speculation on commodity futures? Pssssst,, doesn’t affect prices a whit… what actually happens does. Yep if ya have to buy offshore oil and it is more expensive than pipeline.. it will show up in your heating bill. speculation is a best guess game. It does not move the markets. It does tell there is increasing elements of risk. That MAY affect market prices. Nothing counts until ya buy the oil. If tou buy wheat futures at 8 per bushel and there is a world wide bumper crop… you lose. Guessed wrong, Just cause you bought the futures at 8 if there is an oversupply the stuff is going to sell for 3 or less, not 8. The futures trade didn’t affect it a bit. It’s just more information about what traders think prices will do.
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