So long, Teddy…RIP

[charlabob]

I believe, BB, that you just presumed to make a judgement on the brightness of someone who made a point in a way you didn’t like.

Nevertheless, I’m becoming a rabid fan of “have they no shame?” I’m very tired of being expected to be polite to people who don’t even bother to make sense at all. If I were a bigger person, I might do it. But I can honestly say I’ve gotten to a ripe old age and suffering fools has only gotten me a rare talent for suffering.

People on the right tend to make long winded barely lucid pronouncements and go unchallenged. (I am not talking about anyone in this thread — I’m explaining why your request for “civility” will be ignored by me; and you’re quite welcome to ignore me (or even to think I’m stupid.))

WRT Senator Kennedy, I’m pretty amazed that in 40 years people still whine endlessly about the tragic accident on the bridge in chappaquiddick. Sounds like intellectual laziness to me.

A long time ago I reserved the domain, “factbasedworld.com.” It’s now going to be my official email residence. If you want an account there too, let me know.

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[JoB]

bluebird…

why is it you see so clearly that someone was putting down juschu…

but fail to see at all that juschu persisted in repeating divel long after they had been informed it was drivel?

this seems to be the hallmark of the half truths being leveled now at anything coming from the left.

Half truths paraded as truths and focusing on the next half truth as each lie is debunked… followed by total indignation that anyone would challenge them when informed that there isn’t even a shred of truth in their argument.

enough already.

Yes, Ted Kennedy made mistakes. Chappaquiddick was not the only mistake he made while battling the alcoholism that followed the wake of grief at losing both of his older brothers and political heroes to assassination… after losing his oldest brother to war.

If we are going to to tell the tale, let’s tell all of it. Context does matter.

He spent a lifetime atoning for his sins… both real and perceived… both publicly and privately.. and befriending those who were in need.

You may choose not to to forgive him..

but that doesn’t give you or anyone else the right to tell half truths and innuendos and dismiss so cavalierly his lifetime of accomplishments.

I can think of no other person who has withstood both the tragedy that engulfed his family and the public eye and still accomplished so much.

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[JenV]

I heard Dick Cheney eats puppies. With his brothers, Larry Curly and Moe. I heard that somewhere, but I don’t want to bother to check facts before I spout it off. sheesh. the stupid runs strong in this thread.

yes, Ted Kennedy had a car accident and someone died. So did Laura Bush. So do a lot of people.

Tom Ridge just admitted to falsely raising the terror alerts right before the 2004 election to keep us all scared as sheep and ensure a victory for W. Why isn’t anyone talking about that?

“Our announcement, as delivered with the loaded words, was seen in some as a way to divert attention from that event and to reenforce in the minds of Americans that–even as the Democrats enjoyed their hour upon the political stage–only the Republican incumbent could keep American safe. . . .”

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[JoB]

Bluebird…

i don’t idolize the Kennedy’s but they came to represent political hope for those of us who didn’t drop out in the 70s in a way that is very difficult to explain.

When Ted Kennedy died, the hope that i would see the the kind of change i have been advocating for my entire life died with him… and it will be very difficult for me to resurrect. I don’t know if I can.

I have seen the world full of idealism and promise that began my adulthood morph into one in which appearances are more important than reality…

in which you can no longer have confidence that the news you watch will be factually correct…

in which ignorance is celebrated.

The statistic i heard recently that summed it up for me was that about 30 percent of those who graduate from college with a bachelor’s degree can’t pass a basic reading comprehension test.

I would doubt those statistics, but I have seen plenty of evidence that they are correct.. that both reading comprehension and the ability to understand basic logic are sadly lacking in too many of today’s graduates. Somehow too many of them have graduated without the basic ability to research facts and discriminate between truth and innuendo.

When i entered high school, you couldn’t even get into many high schools without passing a reading comprehension test and remedial reading was part of the vocational curriculum.

And when my mom attended school, you couldn’t pass the 5th grade without the same skills. Her 8th grade education was adequate enough to allow her to read widely and pass her GED in her 30s with nearly 100% accuracy… long before i entered high school.

And let me tell you, even though she was literate, she still clung to more than her share of half truths and political posturing… but she could still follow a basic argument even when she didn’t want to believe the outcome.

Even stoners were literate in the late 60s.

Ted Kennedy was our lion… a man who still stood up after all the disillusionment and his many mistakes and fought for the rights of the common man… and did so with eloquent and lucid argument.

I still have political heroes.. men like Dennis Kucinich who stand up and speak up for what is right in a world that has gotten it’s priorities so out of context that it is on the verge of economic and moral collapse…

but they will have a difficult time accumulating the kind of political power in this climate of distortion that was handed to Ted Kennedy his first day in office.

His death, though expected, comes much too soon.

I don’t expect you to understand what his death means to those of us who have benefited so much from the work he did..

but i do expect you to respect our grief.

Ted Kennedy’s death is not just another tick mark on the great democrat/republican score board.

And certainly isn’t an excuse for more empty headed righteous indignation by those who don’t even bother to check their facts before repeating the rumors and innuendos fed to them by their nightly news of choice.

If nothing else, he deserves respect from both sides for his 40 years of service to this nation.. for the fact that even nearing death he showed up and did his duty.

shame on anyone who doesn’t get that.

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[bluebird]

Someone who is genuinely ill-informed (or stupid, as you say) would be better served by educating.

And I would be better served, blood pressure wise, by ignoring someone who is baiting me.

jschu wasn’t saying drivel about anyone on here, and you handled it correctly JoB, by suggesting a resource for correct information. They responded in kind, by saying, I’ll start looking things up.

To answer your question, I see that jschu, as a person, was being put down by these comments:

“are you just dumb? I have a prejudice in your case, try and prove it wrong”

“Do you imagine that just blathering is acceptable conversation?”

“You speak as one who is of the second one, your understanding is so barren.”

“You nut bags are in a glass house.”

“so shut up about Ted, OK? “

Are those not personal attacks? I’ll leave now, because I’d rather discuss, but thank you for your responses.

BTW, I said I wouldn’t forget. It isn’t up to me to forgive. I’ll leave that to the persons directly hurt. As a citizen, I’ve already stated, he has my respect and admiration for all his accomplishments.

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[JoB]

bluebird..

the saddest commentary on our times is that replying to those who repeat every idiotic thing they hear as though it is the gospel truth with reason is just about as futile as repeatedly ramming your head into a brick wall.

Unfortunately for me, i came of age in an ideological climate that lauded heroic senselss efforts and i can’t seem to unlearn the habits of a lifetime…

but even i begin to see that the aggravation isn’t always worth the results.. in fact.. tilting at these windmills hasn’t really been good for me at all… and results too seldom in greater good for those who follow.

For all my efforts at women’s liberation… for all i gave up so that my children and grandchildren could live without that particular form of discrimination… i am rewarded in my late mid life with Sarah Palin touted as an example of women’s liberation and a role model.

It’s not that she is republican, it’s that she was little more than a charming charismatic skirt paraded as politically competent to pander to women.

Pandering. That’s not liberation.

I am not so sure that those who call a stupid remark stupid haven’t got it right after all.

When you reply to that kind of studidity with reason you only elevate it’s content far beyond it’s worth.

I am not sure there is a nice way to say “check your facts and come back when you have something intelligent to say”… but you seem to think i managed.

today, i am not sure even that is worth the effort.

but then, i am consumed with grief… for a good man and what he represented to me.

who knows what mistakes i will make in it’s wake.

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[JoB]

and one last point… before i walk away from this discussion…

there is this pervading misconception that democrats just forget the mistakes made in their name.. all for the good of the cause.

i would say that i can’t understand where this comes from.. in the face of all evidence to the contrary.. but i KNOW where it comes from.

it comes from the political machine that has been tarring the left with the attributes of the right.. smear them before they can embarrass you with your own weaknesses.

It comes from those who confuse political posturing and yellow journalism for news.

Sorry… but ours was not the party that elected George W for a second term in spite of the fact that he clearly embroiled us in a war without good cause or that he didn’t deliver on a single one of those bipartisan campaign promises… he didn’t even make an attempt.

Yet, Faux fanned the flames of fear fed them by the Bush administration and one half of our bipartisan system re-elected the man who increased our reasons for that fear.

And you think we suffer from some form of amnesia when we look at a man’s life in context instead of singling out and amplifying his mistakes?

Oh chamber pot.. you are too full of your own to be complaining about us…

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[kg]

“Comments that break WSB rules and therefore are held for moderation do not get approved. While this discussion is certainly heated, it has not devolved to name-calling between participants in the discussion, which is against our rules, as summarized fairly simply: Criticize the idea, not the person voicing it. You can say an idea/statement/suggestion/etc. is idiotic, but you can’t call the person voicing it an idiot. Not here, anyway – TR

Comment by WSB — August 11, 09 1:39 pm #”

The above quote was taken from the thread about the poor lady and her dog who were attacked by some fellow who didn’t want the dog to relieve itself on his parking strip.

So far catlbob has called people, not their ideas, in this thread, wingnut, dumb (post 10), mouthbreather (post 13), and finally nutbags (post 14). Are the forum rules going to be administered to all threads or just ones that you have a personal interest in?

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[JoB]

kg..

good full chamberpot example here…

it’s not ok to rationalize discrimination and gratuitous nastiness against others

and then complain about discrimination or gratuitous nastiness you think you or one of your friends has encountered…

this IS about ideas…

responsibility is one of those right buzzwords isn’t it?

…as in “THEY just have to take responsibility for themselves” …

How about some personal responsibility from the wing nuts?

we can start with the responsibility to check out the “facts” before repeating them as though they had relevance.

as for name-calling…

The posts that jschu made were roughly akin to attending a funeral service and mocking the deceased.

Is that the kind of behavior you are rushing to defend?

jschu knew so little about the deceased that their comments could only be a political chit they thought they were cashing.

Given the behavior exhibited… and the genuine grief felt by many at Ted Kennedy’s death…

don’t you think it might be a good idea to pull those ideological talons in a bit and cut those who actually care about Ted Kennedy a little slack?

This kind of behavior is in poor taste at best…

and at an Irish wake… and Ted was Irish.. Boston Irish… more than enough justification for blackened eyes and broken bones…

after all.. all that happened was sticks and stones… and all that…

your complaint had nothing to do with jschu’s behavior or catalbob’s response… and everything to do with making political hay out this incident… one more point for the righteous.

The trouble is that there is nothing righteous in your behavior.

I implore you to have the smallest amount of decency..

and let us grieve the passing of Ted Kennedy…

minus the gratuitous nastiness from the peanut section.

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[kg]

Job..

Many ways to go about things and that guys words were inexcusable. Stop trying to justify what he wrote. Moreover, the WSB moderators should apply the rules to every thread. I imagine justice is not too terribly blind on these boards. My post doesn’t mention whatever that guys names who started this all with the erroneous information, because it wasn’t worth mentioning. The person, although misguided, did not use language that was deemed offensive as per the rules.

Regardless, I pointed out the “fair and balanced rules” and it was obviously taken with a grain of salt by the moderators. This sleeping dog is going to lie as far as I am concerned. We can take this up in another thread instead of de-railing this one further. Maybe it will denigrate into name calling and we can see how fast it gets deleted.

I’ll even give an easy open, I’m Irish.

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[JoB]

RIP is short for Rest In Peace…

Generally, but not always, it is used when someone dies and a memorial is desired.

Just so you know…

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[JanS]

hey, hey, hey folks..I’m the OP here, and I meant this thread to be about Teddy Kennedy’s death, for us to mourn, for us to talk about the wonderful things that he has done in his 47 years to his country. Yes, There was Chappaquiddick, but why bring it up now? He paid dearly for that sin, and became a better man because of it. There are so many other things that he DID do for this country that we should forgive him for being human

kg, Catlbob did not specifically call jschu a wing-nut…it was, in my estimation a generalized use. Nor did he call him dumb…he asked if he was dumb. There’s a difference. He also used the term “mouth breather” generally, to mean a whole group of people.

I am dismayed that this thread has turned into something personal about WSB favoring some and not others. I would like to kindly ask that we go there in another thread and please, please, let this be about Teddy Kennedy and the fact that we have lost a great countryman

I realize this is a public forum, so anyone can say anything, basically, and it can possibly make many turns. But…could we all play nice just this once?

Thanks…

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[charlabob]

A partial list of the legislation that Senator Kennedy, of blessed memory, sponsored and drove during his career. These just cover kids, education, and health — and it’s only the beginning:

1964: Head Start

— Provided meals and early education to pre-school children through the Employee Opportunity Act.

1971: Federal Cancer Research Program

— Quadrupled the amount of money spent by the federal government to fight cancer.

1972: Title IX

— Demanded equal funding for men’s and women’s athletics on college campuses.

1975: Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)

— Guaranteed free and appropriate public education to children with disabilities. (This is the law that provides education for EVERY SINGLE CHILD WITH A DISABILITY in public schools in this country.)

1978: Civil Rights Commission Act Amendments

— Expanded the jurisdiction of the Civil Rights Commission to protect people from discrimination on the basis of disability.

1984: Improved Access to Polling Stations

— Required polling stations to provide physical accessibility for physically disabled and elderly people on federal election days.

1986: Employment Opportunities for Disabled Americans Act

— Allowed disabled workers to receive SSI benefits and Medicaid coverage.

1988: Fair Housing Act Amendments

— Prohibited discrimination towards people with disabilities in the sale or rental of housing.

1989: National Military Child Care Act

— Established the Department of Defense child care system.

1990: Americans with Disabilities Act

— Prohibited discrimination against any qualified individual with a disability in job application procedures, hiring or discharge, compensation, advancement and training.

1990: Ryan White CARE Act

— Provided assistance to states to develop effective and cost-efficient AIDS care programs, aimed particularly at early diagnosis and home care.

1993: National and Community Service Trust Act

— Created AmeriCorps and the Corporation for National and Community Service to help expand volunteerism and education grants for students who choose to volunteer for service after college.

1993: Student Loans

— Allowed students to borrow money for college directly from the federal government.

1994: Family and Medical Leave Act

— Provided up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave for family emergencies or after the birth of infants.

1994: Crime Act

— Secured funding for 100,000 new police officers, imposed new penalties for crimes involving gangs and firearms and authorized the Police Corps, a program to award college scholarships to students in return for a commitment to serve as police officers.

1996: Kennedy-Kassebaum Act

— Enabled employees to keep health insurance after leaving their job and prohibited insurance companies from refusing to renew coverage on the basis of preexisting medical conditions.

1996: Mental Health Parity Bill

— Eliminated limits on mental health coverage that differ from other covered illnesses.

1997: State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP)

— Supported state efforts to provide health insurance to uninsured children in low-income families.

2000: Minority Health and Health Disparities Research and Education Act

— Improved data systems and research on the extent and severity of minority health problems, and authorized significant resources to help enhance the delivery of health care to minorities.

2001: No Child Left Behind Act

— Required more rigorous testing of public school students and permitted parents to transfer their children from low-performing to higher-performing schools. (Clearly I’ve had issues with the implementation of this law, but the philosophy behind it is sound, and even in its flawed state, it has helped a lot of kids with disabilities.)

2006: Family Opportunity Act

— Provided states the opportunity to expand Medicaid coverage to children with special needs and allowed low- and middle-income families with disabled children the ability to purchase coverage under the Medicaid program.

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[JoB]

thanks charlabob…

now that’s what i call context.

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[mrhineh]

and not blind accusations…

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[Author]

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