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May 8, 2008 at 9:43 pm #623018
WSMomParticipantNewRes:
Actually, I’m interested in knowing your take on the Republican beliefs that you agree with. What does it mean to say “I’m conservative”, because anyone who knows me would probably say I’m conservative (Christian, private school supporting, kid centered, fiscally very conservative). But they would never say I was politically conservative. So that word, conservative, what does it really mean?
Do you think the last eight years your beliefs and ideals for our nation have been promoted?
I really do want to understand what makes a person stand by the Republican party.
May 8, 2008 at 10:13 pm #623019
AnonymousInactivePlease note, I am fully aware that by posting this, I am setting myself up to be attacked. That is fine with me. I will ask, however, that you go easy on me as I seem to be (with the exception of House) the only Republican voice on this forum and I truly wish that my party was better represented. I am in no way, shape or form an intellect and would never claim to be. Thank you in advance.
WSMom – I don’t think anyone, anywhere or in any party is proud of what is going on in Iraq.
That said, my Republican beliefs have not wavered.
I believe in limited government. I believe in giving a hand-up instead of a handout.
I do not believe it is in the best interest of this country to allow illegal immigrants to continuously enter our Country (without going through the legal process to do so – there is such a process) and be handed everything. Our money pays for illegal immigrants to receive health care (possibly better health care than your employer provides you).
I do not believe in the government raising my taxes in order to turn around and give that money to people who claim they cannot support themselves. Do you realize how abused the welfare system is?
Affirmative action is a great concept, if it worked. I support giving every single person, regardless of their sex, age or race, the very same opportunities. I do not believe in lowering standards in order for minorities to be equal.
Mainly, I believe that everyone should educate themselves, work hard and be awarded accordingly. If you do not *want* to work for something, you shouldn’t get it.
Conservatism: the disposition to preserve or restore what is established and traditional and to limit change.
Conservatism: Caution or moderation, as in behavior or outlook.
Hope that helps.
May 8, 2008 at 10:24 pm #623020
WSMomParticipantthank you
May 8, 2008 at 10:26 pm #623021
WSMomParticipantBut, do you think that the last eight years the current republican administration and congress has upheld these ideals?
May 8, 2008 at 10:33 pm #623022
AnonymousInactiveUpheld these ideas? Not entirely. However, that doesn’t make me want to be a Democrat.
May 9, 2008 at 12:25 am #623023
JoBParticipantNewResident…
if your choice is handouts or homeless starving people.. what do you thin we should do?
and.. what does a hand up look like?
what would your answer be to the parent who can do better for their children on welfare than on a minimum wage job paying for childcare and healthcare?
And last.. Have you personally ever been in a position to take advantage of any government program?
And that includes student grants for education or govt funded student loans…
May 9, 2008 at 12:34 am #623024
JoBParticipantrs261…
The patriot act by itself was bad enough.
the abuse of the patriot act is worse…
and it is being abused. in fact, provisions of it are currently law enforcement’s favorite tool… especially in the drug war.
i am not any prouder of the democrats who agreed to it than i am of the republicans…
any time an American can have their home searched, their financial records accessed, their telephone tapped and their internet use overseen.. without any legal process or notification… something is very wrong.
any time anyone accusing you of possible treasonous acts without corraborating evidence is enough to warrant intrusion into your home and/or inclusion on a no-travel list that is not overseen by any govt agency.. something is wrong.
Any time a citizen is denied access to freedom of travel or other benefits of being a citizen because their name even closely resembles that of someone on a suspect list.. something is wrong.
Do you understand that i think something is very wrong?
May 9, 2008 at 12:41 am #623025
JoBParticipantBTW…
i know someone mentioned the stimulus check… and how it only helps foreign countries… i don’t remember who.
You can choose to use yours to help the American economy…
reduce your debt…
give a percentage to organizations who help those in need… you even get a tax break from that.
if you buy new.. buy American products…
Buy locally produced goods.
Buy used goods… that will directly contribute to the American Economy..
Go buy a good used bike to use for transportation… you will stimulate the economy and help reduce our dependence on oil.
and that’s just a start of what could be a very long list for worthwhile things to do with your money that will actually help our local economy.
I know they are small solutions.. but they are a start.
May 9, 2008 at 12:47 am #623026
JoBParticipantOne last thing…
i have to take exception to the idea that the only way to win in politics is to out-nasty the opposition.
if there is no truth behind the nastiness. it is just nastiness… and appeals only to those who agree with you already.
If there is truth behind the nastiness… it is more effective as truth… nastiness is offensive to many and they are likely to stop listening before you get to the truths you want them to hear.
May 9, 2008 at 12:49 am #623027
beachdrivegirlParticipantI guess I dont understand why people think tax cuts are a good idea. I used to (but that was when I was 14 and got my first job…)
We rely on taxes for everything and we can not cut them anymore. The biggest concern of mine when I hear people go on and on about tax cuts is our education system. By not supporting levy’s and not supporting our tax system that inturn supports public educaiton you are creating a class system that no child deserves to live in. A child can not help what family they are born into and they should have the same opportunity as the child up the street. It kills me when I hear people go on and on about cuttng the taxes and this is just one of the numerous reasons why.
May 9, 2008 at 12:57 am #623028
AnonymousInactiveJoB – I like the idea of helping people that seriously need help. I don’t like the fact that most government programs are abused. That is a simple fact.
I know that there are people who are on welfare who NEED to be on welfare and there is no other option.
Quick example: One of my best friends was a fellow flight attendant with me for about 10 years at my same Company. Needless to say, she was making decent money. Her mother suddenly and unexpectedly passed away. My friend went through a tailspin. She got engaged to the wrong guy, quit her great job and even dabbled in substance abuse (thank God not heavily). She has pulled herself together and was recently hired at another airline as a flight attendant. Good for her! The problem is, she is making an embarrassing amount of money (unable to provide for herself). Therefore, she is a flight attendant, on-call, for 5 days, and her 2 days off, she is waitressing. She absolutely qualifies for welfare and is considering.
This is an example of someone who is hard working, working 2 jobs and has every intention of bettering her current situation. Unfortunately, this does not exemplify the norm of people on welfare.
May 9, 2008 at 1:05 am #623029
AnonymousInactiveJoB, or anyone else who cares to look into it, I encourage you to read this article. It is enlightening and written by one of my most respected people.
May 9, 2008 at 1:12 am #623030
JoBParticipantNewResident…
i think you are wrong about the norm on public assistance…
some people are lucky enough to get the kind of breaks in life that let them start out ahead.. such as your friend who started out as a flight attendant… and messed up.
I think it’s easy to see that those people should get second chances.
But what about the people who aren’t so lucky? Those people don’t need a second chance.. they need a first chance…
I barely escaped needing that first chance myself. Many of my cousins still need that first chance and it is too late for them now.
Because of that, i have spent a good portion of my life in advocacy… i have worked in some of the worst neighborhoods in our country… trying to help people put their lives together through a variety of programs.
And because of my illness.. i know many people on welfare of one kind or another who are there for no reason other than being too ill to work… and are likely to be there for the rest of their lives….
some of them are professional people who spent their considerable savings trying to find a cure or treatment for their illness… so they could go back to work…
many of them waited too long before finally filing for social security disability and lost most of or all of the benefits they had earned… myself included.
i didn’t want disability.. i wanted to find some way to work.
and no… i am not on welfare… I am lucky. But i have close friends who struggle to survive on public benefits.
Sometimes it isn’t so easy for those who need assistance to better their current situation…
May 9, 2008 at 1:14 am #623031
JoBParticipant:)
so while we are at it New Resident…
do you think corporations should get tax breaks and incentives when we are denying benefits to people?
May 9, 2008 at 1:16 am #623032
AnonymousInactivePlease explain to me how you escaped having a first chance. It’s fluff words unless you give me a specific example.
May 9, 2008 at 1:18 am #623033
AnonymousInactiveRemember that these big bad corporations everyone likes to complain about provide millions of jobs to the people. Democrats like to look at corporations as a big fat rich man. It’s an entity that is providing jobs to people who are willing to actually go to work.
May 9, 2008 at 1:31 am #623034
AnonymousInactiveLet’s see. Let’s talk about people not having a chance. I’ll use myself as an example.
I started taking ballet classes when I was 4 and never stopped. I joined a professional ballet company when I was 16, which required me to move across the country from my parents. I took, for awhile, correspondence courses to finish my high school education. Unfortunately, we began touring all over the world, my parents weren’t there to keep me on top of it (I could go on with excuses), so I never finished high school. When I suddenly became injured (with an injury that would never allow me to dance professionally again), I had to move back home and say goodbye to the only way of life I knew.
Because my parents had sent me all over the country for ballet programs while growing up (that was just gonna be what I was gonna do), there was no money saved for me to attend college. I never went to college.
I finally earned my G.E.D. (I’m not proud of this fact) and did a lot of wondering what the hell I was gonna do.
I was lucky that my parents wanted to fly for free and therefore encouraged me to work for an airline. I was lucky that I wasn’t a drug user and passed the drug test to get hired. I was lucky, right? Or did I, even after life dealt me a sh***ty hand, make some right choices?
Everyone goes to school. Everyone has a chance to earn an education. An education gets you a job. Unfortunately, JoB, there are people who just *don’t* want to work.
Disabled? Obviously different story. However, in my chosen profession (ballet), I would consider myself disabled since my injury. I found a different profession. It’s all about choices. Yes, that is what I believe.
May 9, 2008 at 1:41 am #623035
beachdrivegirlParticipantThat is exactly what I was thinking on my way home from work right now. One of my best friends was born to a meth addict. She never has known who her dad is and she has lived in and out of foster care since she was a baby. Did she ask to be born into that life? No. I dont think anyone would. Without state and federal programs availabe she would not be where she is today. Today she is not only a college graduate but she has her PHD and is in law school right now becuase she wants to be a lawyer for the DSHS system. She is an amazing young women and if politicans had gotten rid of these federal programs years ago she would not be where she is today and I probably would have never known her.
May 9, 2008 at 2:01 am #623036
AnonymousInactiveBDG – Thank you for that example of someone who used the federal program to their benefit. It was a way for her to better herself and her situation, not a way of life for her.
I do not believe that we should never help people that need it. I think most federal programs are abused by the majority who use them and something should be done to fix that.
May 9, 2008 at 3:54 am #623037
TrickParticipantI can understand and respect the “definition” of conservatism. The problem is, it really isn’t practiced when it comes to the definition.
They’d rather cut child education and veteran benefits, and spend almost $1 Trillion on a war, let Haliburton move to Dubai (no taxes there) and let Henry Kravis pay less taxes then the avg. citizen while using pension funds as leverage to dismantle companies and employee’s lose decades of pensions.
Yes, there are abuses, no doubt in alot of welfare programs, but let’s not forget the billions spent on the largest program ever, Homeland Security. Or should I bring up the $9 billion missing in Iraq?
Less taxes = less revenue for government. We’ve seen this in the Reagan years (large deficit) and we’ve seen the numbers from Bush, how short can our memory be? Clinton raised taxes and still had a very prosperous economy.
I find it still amazing that 60% of republicans still approve of George Bush’s peformance.
From my experience with a handful of Republican friends is they don’t always practice what they preach.
Nobody likes aliens entering illegally. The problem is, we have millions here already. That is the question is how “we” deal with it humanely and economically.
I’m glad NR responded because I’m not the most eloquent either, but I’d much rather say how I feel inside then let Wikipedia do it for me…that is our difference. And I’m glad you did respond even if you felt like you put yourself on a limb, at least you gave more than a vague description.
May 9, 2008 at 5:09 am #623038
AnonymousInactiveTrick – Thank you for that. I feel like I made myself vulnerable in this ocean of Democrats, but I’m glad I put my thoughts and beliefs out there!
It feels good that it was appreciated (at least by one).
JoB- I noticed that you still haven’t responded to my request for specifics of the point you were trying to make. I anxiously await your response.
May 9, 2008 at 7:00 am #623039
AnonymousInactiveNR, I agree about the abuse of federal programs, but disagree about who’s doing the abusing. Sure you have a person here or there, lying or cheating to get benefits, but it’s not as easy as you think to get those benefits.
I read a lot more stories about dishonest contract billing to these agencies and employee misuse of funds. For instance, doctors who bill for patients they aren’t seeing. Government credit cards getting used for ipods and laptops. Where is the over sight?
And why aren’t people more upset about no-bid contracts for $200,000 paper clips (exaggeration)? You always hear this *welfare* buzzword, while the government is bailing out another corporation. It reads like prejudice against the poor. Do you even truly know the statistics on welfare fraud? I’m asking, cuz I don’t.
I do know people who have died before they’ve come up for a disability review. The waiting list to have your case heard, is now years. Yes, years. And what they receive, including our heroic veterans, is a pittance. Not enough to live on, not enough to buy medicine.
Sometimes I feel that the republicans are just so used to believing a certain way, they don’t stop to really evaluate what they’re saying. There is this mass belief that some worthless good for nothing is taking hard earned money out of their pocket. If that were true, it would be offensive. I just don’t believe it is true, and I think if some people took the time to put a human face on these buzzwords, They might not believe it either.
May 9, 2008 at 2:35 pm #623040
JoBParticipantNewResident..
You asked a very personal question.. and after thought.. i have decided to answer it.
My mom was one of 16 kids who whose family had money prior to the depression and really didn’t after. Mom was itinerant farm labor when she was 12 years old. She didn’t finish high school.. though she did get her GED in her early 30s.
She married young.. to an abusive man. She escaped in the middle of the night with her sister, her two children and her sister’s three. They drove west and didn’t stop until they literally ran out of money in Pendleton, Or.
Mom remarried.. to another man.. who was abusive to me… and we had a few years outside of poverty.
then she discovered the abuse and moved us to Portland with little more than determination and the same sister to move in with.
To say we didn’t exactly have money while i was in High School is an understatement. How mom managed to buy a house is still a mystery to me.. but we were definately house poor.. let’s just say i know what hunger is.
We didn’t qualify for any government programs and mom wouldn’t have accepted them if we had.
I did study.. and i qualified for incredible full ride scholarships.. which my mother would not allow me to accept because she felt the schools were too liberal. Being too young to sign for myself before the deadlines (a matter of days).. i stayed at home.
I was an unwed mother and gave my child up for adoption by the time i was 19.
And i was the lucky one. Most of my female cousins in my age group didn’t finish high school… though they were following somewhat less pedestrian dreams involving some loser of a man and children.
I did… i even went to college.. choosing community college to start where i was bored stiff because without scholarships mom made too much money for student aid.. by less than $100 a year.
I stayed in school… i married and had children… i kept going to school until i was in my mid twenties.. taking a class or two at a time. I built my degree in pieces. I didn’t quite finish my masters.
Of my first cousins.. my sister, my two brothers and i are the most successful of our generation… and the only family to have more than one college graduate…
i was lucky.
I have also had fibromyalgia most of my life and severe reoccurring bouts of chronic fatigue syndrome bad enough to leave me bedridden for months at a time since i was 15.
You speak of reinventing your life after an injury. I have reinvented myself more times than i can count when the last profession i was in before i collapsed became impossible for me to work in when i recovered. 17 years ago, i collapsed and have never recovered. I am disabled.
Disabled is not being able to hold any job at all.
I am unreliable. Sometimes my body works, sometimes it doesn’t. And it is always in pain.. the kind of pain that stops most people. Sometimes my brain works, sometimes it doesn’t. when it works, i am conversant, able to follow immense detail and well reasoned. When it doesn’t, i can’t find words even for simple things like water or glasses or….
My IQ was literally off the charts for children when i was 12. It regularly measured 180+ in my teens. I measured 120 verbally and 88 spatially less than 10 years ago. The spatial score is just above retarded. Parts of my brain just plain don’t work any more.
I am still lucky. I have found ways to manage my illness well enough to stay out of bed most of the time.. many of my friends with this illness are bedridden.
I have lived a full life.. i have a good husband and a good life. Many of my friends with this illness live alone in subsidized housing on less than my grocery budget.
I am lucky. I barely escaped the fate of my cousins… who are now grandmothers and greatgrandmothers… and live in intellectual, emotional or financial poverty… many still barely supporting children and grandchildren.
And I came from a family that believes in the work ethic.
I came from a good Republican family.. in fact, my brothers and sister are all Republicans.
I came from a good Christian family… three of my Uncles and Aunts were Pentacostal ministers until their retirement.
There are far too many myths about poverty.. myths that ignore stories like mine… and we were the lucky ones.
When i worked with social agencies in my 20s… i met and befriended women who would have given anything to have had my advantages… and that is putting it mildly.
I am sorry your dreams went wrong. I know about injury and illness and would not wish either on anyone.
But your dreams went wrong in an environment that supported you and in a way that allowed you to recover.
Too many never even get to have dreams…. and even less get the chance to live them.
May 9, 2008 at 2:35 pm #623041
rs261MemberJoB, I agree the patriot act has been taken advantage of, and the court system is allowing it. I also think that its the democrats/republicans fault for passing the extention on it. On the initial act, it was for the good of the country (or so everyone believed) On the extention and “improvement” it wasnt, it had nothing to do with patriotism at that point.
Granted the current majority on the Supreme court has been picked by conservative republicans, hopefully some will resign their post during a Democrats presidential term, and get a more balanced court can be achieved.
As far as the stimulous check, that was me again, paying off debt is a great idea, spending it on “american” products may not be, as they might be labled as american, but parts come from all over (mostly asia), I dont think other then food, you can find many truly american only products. Buying used is always a good idea, as its the businesses getting supported.
Welfare is definitly needed for people who dont WANT to work. I think if a single mother/father is more interested in taking care of their children then finding a low paying job, its all the better. I personally believe that bad parenting is causing more of our countries problems then some want to believe.
I personally believe the Social security tax should have no cap (Hillary wants a cap still, McCain doesnt want to change anything, I have no idea about Obama though) it doesnt make sense to cap it when we have a huge deficit to fill.
May 9, 2008 at 2:43 pm #623042
beachdrivegirlParticipant“Democrats like to look at corporations as a big fat rich man.” I have to disagree there. Most Democrats I know are not upset about the coporations and they do not think of the corporations as a big fat rich man. They are upset that CEO’s such as Jim Donald of Starbucks who made $16.1 million in 2006 and Howard SHultz who this same year as Chairman received a 7.9% raise to earn $17.9 million. There are a couple of different things wrong with this picture. first and farmost there are still individuals out there who cant afford healthcare or childcare but we as a country think it is oaky to allow corporations to pay this people this kind of money. Secondly, these are the ones that are getting tax cuts.
Furthermore, I am going to track down the name of this book I read for a class in college. I belive I still have it at my house. I used to think just like that that you should just work harder well sometimes it is not that easy. This book is by a lady who was upper middle class and she decided to leave her life for a few months and work minimum wage jobs across the country to experience what lower or lower middle class citizens were going through. She worked as a waitress @ a Denny’s, @ Wal-Mart, as a temp and worked the most hours available and sometimes worked two jobs(she never told the businesses what she was doing) at more then one time she had to live out of her car because even working two minimum wage jobs in a city she could not afford rent. And when she got sick she had to chose between a prescription and her rent for the next month. Although she had an emergency fund of money (her family) she never touched it because she wanted to experience it as though it was real. It sure changed my opinion on things.
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