Incompetent unprepared motorists

[JoB]

hooper1961..

today i watched people buzz around me on pavement that was almost clear and then slide into the intersection as they tried to brake at the light.

i slow down on ice so i never have to stop…

there are times when slow and steady wins the race

by completing it.

Share This

[hooper1961]

i never said not to slow down (but not to an obscenely slow speed); i have said that people that do not know how to drive in snow and are not equipped should stay of the streets and highways.

it still amazes me how many idiots stop on an uphill grade for stop signs and red lights (it is better to slow down and try to time yourself to no cross traffic (lower traffic intersections) or green light (heavily trafficked intersections) so you do not stop because once stopped you can be stuck!)

when driving conditions improve they should drive to a vacant snow covered parking lot and practice (btw this can be fun too). or maybe requiring a snow/ice endorsement on a license like a motorcycle endorsement

Share This

[oddreality]

Can’t learn how to drive in the snow if you never drive in the snow.

Share This

[redblack]

as andy said, yesterday was a perfect storm. ice + rush hour + inexperienced drivers = disaster. if the cold front had passed through 4 hours later, SDOT, KC, and WSDOT would have had no trouble keeping the roads clear.

the city did prepare for a snow/ice event, and very thoroughly. but when roadways which suck at rush hour on dry days freeze and re-freeze during rush hour, how exactly is a salt/sand/plow truck supposed to get to the bridge? fly over the immobile cars and jackknifed buses? same thing with cops, ambulances, and tow trucks. unlike on dry days, drivers couldn’t just ease over to the right to allow utility and emergency vehicles through.

i will suggest this as a better response, though:

SDOT should have closed one lane in each direction on the high bridge at the first sign of trouble; a lane dedicated solely for the use of salt/sand trucks, tow trucks, emergency vehicles, etc. maybe even remove some jersey barriers so they can respond in force to incidents in either direction.

and maybe some thought should be put into electric ice-melters in the bridge deck, like the new I-35 bridge in minnesota has.

i’ll close with a rant, though: wtf happened to the new traffic info sign boards??

Share This

[redblack]

btw, i have a VW golf that handles great in the current conditions. if i put chains on, i could scale mt. baker in that car.

and another thing: i have seen chicago and other major midwestern cities similarly paralyzed from time to time. even places with frequent icy weather get blind-sided, maybe as much as once per season, and they don’t accuse their cities’ governments of ineptitude.

then again, those cities have real transit systems.

Share This

[JoB]

redblack..

ah yes… a real transit system.

the folks commuting by train and light rail got home just fine.

West Seattle could have been one of those destinations…

Share This

[JoB]

oddreality..

there is plenty of snow in the mountains all winter.

if you want to learn how to drive in snowy conditions..

all you have to do is go there and practice.

Share This

[hooper1961]

good point JoB

Share This

[yeah-me]

Wow! I grew up driving in ice and snow in Idaho and I still wouldn’t drive on Seattle roads in these conditions. This is not just your average snow on the road around here. It is wetter and icier than many places and when you combine that with steep hills throughout all of the city — you have a driving disaster. Yea, people could avoid more accidents by going slower and/or staying completely off the roads…but let’s be serious…not everyone has the convenience of just staying home in bad weather. Or purchasing snow tires for the few times it snows.

Many schools didn’t close until noon — depending on where you work or live — just getting your kids home may have been enough to put you in an accident. The roads were a mess by that time.

I think the police are correct in closing certain streets. Did you see the bus video on YouTube? It is not like anyone was racing down that street. They were all going as slow as possible and were still not able to stop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhZCyQ3emQg if you missed it@

Share This

[hoffanimal]

I’m not sure how the fleet of trucks carrying containers is regulated but it was pretty obvious those vehicles caused a lot of the problems. If a car gets stuck you can go around it, but once a semi is out of commission it’s game over. They were a major reason for the total cluster on the first ave. S bridge. Those things one the road during a snowstorm without chains is negligent at best.

Share This

[JoB]

hoffanimal..

i couldn’t agree more.

Share This

[Ken]

So what does it really take to be prepared to drive in serious snow and ice in a city with hills near the water?

In the blizzard of ’78 I drove a cab in Boston/Cambridge.

I drove a checker outfitted for snow and ice. Its empty weight was 4500 lbs. It had railroad ties mounted as bumpers with winches fore and aft with a combined cable length if 500 ft.

I spent much of the day pulling people out of intersections where the snow plows had dumped truckloads of snow at the bottom of a hill. Many of them were cop cars, emergency vehicles and bus mechanics.

I spent 3 hours pulling myself back up an ice covered street by hooking to one light pole after another after getting too close to the break on an incline and sliding 400ft down iced cobblestones.

No amount of skill, experience or hardware is going to give you traction where there is none.

Share This

[Carson]

Ken,

Thats pretty funny. I was just a high school senior during that storm and remember we got lucky, the milk truck got stuck delivering to us (it was a boarding school) so we at least had milk for a few days until we dug out! I can still remember pictures of Rt 128 days later, still just a parking lot. btw, sunny and breezy, high of 68 on the Outer Banks today…

Share This

[Ken]

I got the snow cab because I was the first one into the cab barn. I dressed in ski pants and parka and a snowmobile suit and a motorcycle helmet to walk in. I am pretty sure I was the only pedestrian out in the middle of the storm at 3 am. I was blown across every intersection from North Cambridge to Central square. The paint was blasted off the top of the helmet.

I was 24.

I am still 24 inside this decrepit exterior but I break a lot easier now. I stay home, feed the wood stove and watch the storms through windows.

Share This

[Carson]

So Ken, was that you that took me home from the Hong Kong back in 1980?

Share This

[JanS]

Carson…I would so love to be in the Outer Banks just about now…it’s oh, so beautiful there !

Share This

[hooper1961]

WSDOT is currently requiring traction tires to cross the pass. Maybe during the next snow storm in Seattle SDOT will make the same requirement and those don’t head the warning and get stuck and block traffic well get fined stiffly?

Share This

[Al]

Of course I can then predict that when the required tire removal date arrives that some will complain that it’s certainly w/in their rights to leave the tires on and that any fine is impinging on their individual freedom to use said tires w/impunity. Never mind that we still don’t have snow covered streets for more than days even at the worst and everyone using snow tires (which are not cheap and you ever tried storing snow tires in an apartment?) would damage the streets quickly – oh, and that would require *more* road maintenance and *gasp* taxes for said maintenance funding which we all know won’t happen since, you know, the roads are magically just provided for everyone.

Or are there enough tire shops available to install and then remove snow tires for every vehicle in the city within a few days? So sure, let’s bring on mandatory snow tires just prior to every predicted winter storm – I’m sure the tire stores would love it.

Share This

[hooper1961]

all season tires or simply tires that are not bald. traction tires do not necessarily have studs thus your statement regarding wear and tear on streets is not fully accurate. or simply do not drive during the snow conditions. if you drive and get stuck and cause delay to other motorists more prepared motorist be willing to pay a fine.

Share This

[JanS]

At the beginning of this last storm even Cliff Mass, the weather expert, was saying “no snow in Seattle”. It caught a lot of people offguard. People who left for work that morning never expected what would happen during the day. We aren’t magical creatures who can predict that these things will happen. If we were, everyone would have stayed home that morning. But, the reality of it it, it was a bit of a surprise to everyone, and it was what it was. I’m assuming that you were personally inconvenienced by it? If not…I guess I don’t understand the rant. It’s a shame it happened. Snow is one of the hardest things to predict around here. Me? I work at home…didn’t affect me one bit, except that I had to run my heating source more.

Share This

[hooper1961]

yes i was i spent hours in traffic due to people illegally stopping/standing in the roadway

Share This

[JanS]

well, look at it this way. You weren’t alone :) Where’s that magic wand that makes everyone else disappear when we need it, huh…

and it’s done and over now…

Share This

[miws]

What about all of the bus riders, that “did the right thing”, by not each clogging up the roads with a single occupancy vehicle?

They, too, were punished by hours of waiting in traffic, and/or miles of walking home (and those were the able-bodied ones that could do so). And they had tried to make things easier on themselves and others by not even adding a properly equipped SOV to the traffic mix.

Mike

Share This

[hooper1961]

I agree the bus riders who did everything right were unfairly delayed. The people who caused the delay should be cited accordingly.

Share This

[redblack]

well, hooper, you’re home now. chalk it up to experience, laugh a little, and move on. it’ll be something to tell your great grandchildren (who will be getting around with jet packs.)

and remember that if cops and tow trucks can’t drive on the stuff, either, then they can’t very well cite motorists for impeding traffic or tow them out of the way.

come to think of it, giving a ticket to someone who can’t move his car across an ice sheet (which practically formed under him) seems kind of ridiculous. and if you go down that road, you’ll be ticketing every driver that breaks down on the viaduct during rush hour.

life in the big city…

for the record, if i was the guy at the top of the bridge who couldn’t quite make it over, i would have had the nearest 4WD push me until i could get traction. that’s what bumpers are for, after all: contact with other vehicles.

and i’m sure that i’m not the first one to have had that thought. i’ll bet it even occurred to the drivers who were stuck on monday.

Share This

[Author]

Posts