Cyclists (not) stopping at stop signs

[Seattle Scofflaws]

This might get pulled because it’s about cyclists but just thought I’d try. The double standard just bugs me to no end. I’ve reported this to Czar Kubly, the City Council, and SPD. No response.

Also, I posted the first video on April 19th and when I went back almost 2 months to the day, on June 20th, the behavior was the same. About one per minute ran the stop sign. Same location, same time frame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnfIqbkOenE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo0vua2IHmQ

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[montanapup]

You seem to have a lot of time on your hands with all the videos. May I suggest you apply for a job at enforcement including Animal Control?

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[mark47n]

It’s a good thing you don’t live in Idaho. Cyclists can only yield at stop signs there.

I could also go on and on about double standards and cyclists. They get hit by cars, things thrown at them and assaulted with little enforcement on that end. In fact some years ago on a Critical Mass ride a pissed off driver hit a cyclist because he was frustrated (the drivers explanation). Admittedly, cyclists hauled him out of the car and locked him to a light post. The cyclists were arrested and the driver was released and nothing came of it. Last I checked that’s vehicular assault, to say nothing of the intent.

Last July in SF cyclists protested a crackdown on cyclists blowing stop signs. In protest to the change in policy cyclists spent a day following all of the traffic rules (keep in mind that bicycles have all of the rights and obligations as cars as a matter of law) and tied up traffic something fierce.

The New York Times and many other papers have examined the fact that cyclists get killed and no one even gets cited, so many that I won’t even begin to list any. So when drivers start to get cited for endangering or harming cyclists I’ll take this call a bit more seriously. Especially since most cyclists runs stop signs when there are no cars.

As a law abiding (generally) cyclist I can report that I’ve been verbally assaulted, physically assaulted, brushed back, disregarded, told that I don’t belong on the road and swerved at. Now, in one case I saw a cop pull over a driver but all other nothing happens, even if a cop is there.

As for the intersection in question; the right turn that is most commonly made there by cyclists (I’ll be making it myself in about 1.5 hours) turns right into a bus lane. Are they obstructing you? preventing you from doing something? Yes, they’re breaking the law, but perhaps the police have something better to do, such as pursue off leash dog owners. Or perhaps we need to allow cyclists to treat stop signs as yields like IDAHO!!! IDAHO FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!

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[datamuse]

Not only is that the law in Idaho, but it has been since 1982. It seems to work well. Studies show that the rolling stop for bikes is actually safer for everyone, which I think most of us would agree is the goal.

Speaking of safety, some video clips of the top of Highland Park Way at Holden might not be a bad idea, given how many crashes (between cars! I was nearly witness to one an hour ago!) occur there. Maybe the city’ll finally put in that roundabout they keep teasing us with.

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[mark47n]

I just ran that stop sign.

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[Bisker16]

Most cyclists break the law then flip you off if you honk at them, lovely.

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[JayDee]

Cyclists lose regardless of fault when hit by a car. If rolling stops are against the law, but ultimately safer, then they should run them.

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[mark47n]

To say that most cyclists flip off drivers is hyperbole at best.

The funny thing is that when cyclists assert their rights as users of the road we get screamed at, sometime even cited by uneducated cops. When we behave the same way that cars do (rolling stops at stop signs) we get screamed at. When we get hit by a car no one is cited or the cyclist is. This doesn’t even address how few people actually pass me with three feet of clearance, which is also the law here and in many other states.

I’m going to continue to ride in a manner that I deem safe as it’s clear that there is little protection otherwise. I’ll run the occasional stop sign and red light – those that don’t trigger for bicycles – occupy the lane as I need to avoid the little chuckholes that’ll trip me up but not cars.

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[JanS]

perhaps if everyone, including cyclists, adhere to the laws, there would be less animosity between cyclists and drivers. Oh, but that makes too much sense, doesn’t it? I’m including drivers in the adhering to laws…like going 45mph up and down Admiral Hill to and from the bridge, as a for instance…

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[Bringerofthepain]

mark47n – thank you for being a breath of fresh air on this issue!

Meanwhile, attn hyperbolic, anti-bike people here: I cycle regularly, and I can tell you that only people who completely do not understand this issue could possibly make the statements you folks are making.

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[dhg]

Critical Mass suddenly appeared in front of us and one bicyclists who was appointed to be the thug planted himself in front of our car with a look that dared us to challenge him. We were delighted to see them but rather upset with the attitude. It is not all an us-vs-them. I’ve biked a lot. I don’t mind them blowing through stop signs (they don’t weigh 2 tons, they aren’t made of steel) I just mind when they insist on the right to ride side by side @ 15mph rather than moving to the side of the road to let me by.

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[mark47n]

Critical Mass was a PITA but that doesn’t excuse vehicular assault. Frustration was the excuse provided by the driver in the case I mentioned above. Driver was not charged.

I’m not excusing rude cycling. I’m trying to point out that assertive cycling is not illegal…and neither is riding two abreast. Frequently you’ll see parents riding to the left of a child (two abreast) and cyclists tend to be further to the left that drivers generally like to avoid car doors being opened right in front of them.

Just because it’s inconvenient to drivers doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily illegal.

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[JanS]

Mark47n…drivers have to put up with that car door thing , too. It’s one of my pet peeves…people who don’t look before that. And parents who insist on putting their child in a car seat from the street side instead of the sidewalk side. What is up with that?

Inconvenient to drivers – hmmmm…that can be a two way street…you don’t like drivers inconveniencing you…why should drivers have to always acquiesce? Something to think about. We ARE sharing the road….right?

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[mark47n]

Drivers don’t have to put up with the door thing. Getting doored on a bike isn’t the same thing, especially if you’re being a courteous cyclist. On a bike it can be catastrophic…to the cyclist. In a car you just ding up your car.

As to the inconvenience; you’ll not that I said “Just because it’s inconvenient to drivers doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily illegal.” It’s unusual to see cyclists hogging up the road due to the law of tonnage, you know, the largest vehicle wins.

My point is that when cyclists are asserting their RIGHTS they are hassled by drivers. No one is asking drivers to acquiesce to cyclists, we are demanding that our rights be respected as well.I don’t want to brushed back, doored, yelled at, have things thrown at me or generally hassled simply because I’m on a bicycle and on the road. That is also my right.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by mark47n.

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[Space Dust]

I don’t care if they stop or not…But I hope they look left right left…
Tangle with the wrong car and you well be left for dead. Not all drivers have a license, let alone insurance. The larger vehicle will always win.
If your going to run the stop sign or light on a bicycle and get hit by a car..I hope you have insurance to pay for the damage to the car.

It’s time to make bicyclist have a license and insurance.

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[mark47n]

You do realize that the VAST majority of bicyclists have licenses. As for insurance, if the cyclist is at fault they are liable, some form of insurance or not isn’t relevant. That said, the vast majority of car/bicycle collisions the car is deemed at fault, even if the driver wasn’t cited (the statistics on this topic are extensive). Or are you saying that I need to pay more taxes for roads than I already do on my two cars? Is that it? You think I don’t own cars?

Additionally, riding a bicycle is still considered a right whereas driving a car is considered a privilege. By the way, a nifty piece of bicycle history for you; roads were paved for bicycles, not cars and the recognition of bicycles as vehicles goes back more than 100 years. Drivers, thank a cyclist for paved roads for you expensive SUV that can’t actually go offroad.

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[Bisker16]

mark47n, that is nifty history, certainly changes my thinking! Jan thank you for your comment in that it works both ways, just because someone comments here and expresses their experience does not make them ‘anti-bike’ people…

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[AJP]

Thank you mark47 for taking the time to come to the defense of cyclists!

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[mark47n]

It’s not about being anti-bike, it’s about cyclists having rights and drivers of cars having little to no respect for those rights. Yes, yes, I know, not all drivers do the things I mention. The question is this; when you and your friends complain about traffic and cyclist do you point out that they have as much right to be there as cars and that it is enshrined as law in all 50 states? Assault is illegal, but I’ve been assaulted more times on a bicycles than I ever was in a bar and I’ve enjoyed many a tetchy bar. As a driver have you ever had a cyclist throw things at you or try to run you off the road? Probably not. Do cyclists endanger your life? A big no on that one.

It’s about courtesy and that courtesy flows both way more often than not but that means less to a cyclist when the flagship of the Ford product line is about to give you an enema. I am defenseless on my bike. I expect drivers to pay attention to what they’re doing, in fact I’m counting on it. I’m expecting drivers to behave like adults, not juiced up 17 year old with daddy’s muscle car.

I’ll say it again; it’s a right, like freedom of speech, to own a gun, to feel safe and secure in your home and possessions. You may not like it but that’s how it is. If you really don’t understand and think cyclists are big whiny babies I’d be happy to take you a lovely tour of Seattle by road bike. It’ll help some gain a bit of perspective. Alaskan under the viaduct is especially lovely.

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[Bisker16]

When driving in Seattle a cyclist cut in front of me in between cars because he couldn’t wait like everyone else for traffic to move..illegally, I honked my horn as he crossed 4 lanes…illegally. When I honked my horn, he gave me the finger, circled my car about 3 times yelling profanities, my sun-roof was open and my toddler in the back seat. We’ve all had bad experiences…there will always be this ‘argument’..

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[mark47n]

So, one discourteous act (which may or may not be illegal as cyclists are permitted certain things that cars are not) was greeted, by you, with another discoureous act, which escalated it. What did you think the horn would get you? It sounds like you honked out of frustration which is also illegal per the RCW. It seems, though, that you’re confusing behavior with rights, which is my point.

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[aussiedor]

Funny how one of your videos you’ve posted has a car blowing through the stop sign also. Bicyclists don’t realize that if they get hit by a car, the car will always win!

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[Bisker16]

Hilarious…everyone have a great and safe 4th! Watch those horns! LOL!

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[mark47n]

Aussiedor: I’ve already stated that a car will “win” in a collision. The ability to grind someone into hamburger isn’t a means for deciding who is right.

Bisker16: that was a typical PNW response to someone calling you on crappy behavior. Sarcastic and passive aggressive. What was the point of laying on your horn? Did you really expect a positive response to that? Do cars give you a positive response?

Admittedy, I struggle to believe that a cyclist who was in a hurry, as you desribe, came over, in traffic that was moving so slowly that you were waiting to move, circled your car multiple times and screamed profanities at you.

But I digress, inconvenience doen’t trump legally enshrined rights. That is the whole point. Also individual acts of bad behavior are not necessarily indicative of the behavior of a group. If it were what would people think of drivers, hmm?

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[Bisker16]

Mark47n..Please have a wonderful day and a safe 4th of July..Breathe…:)

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