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September 17, 2010 at 11:51 pm #596415
HSGParticipantThat’s what David Stockman is suggesting:
September 18, 2010 at 12:31 am #703802
SmittyParticipantI don’t know about you, but raising taxes doesn’t sound like a very good way to get people to start spending again – which is exactly what it’s going to take to get us out of this vicious cycle.
Until people like Carson start investing their welfare checks on things like beer and smokes – rather than investing in the crooked stock market – we are in big, big trouble.
September 18, 2010 at 1:30 am #703803
JoBParticipantHSG..
out of respect for you, i watched the entire 20 minutes of that interview…
i would point out the historical perspective first…
that David Stockman was the engineer of the 3 decades of policy that he is now condemning…
that he profitted greatly by those policies
and that for him austerity will mean that he has to fly first class instead of on a private Lear jet..
I would also point out that although he had a great deal to say about debt..
he said almost nothing about revenue…
without employment there is no revenue…
it’s that simple.
And 10% unemployment doesn’t even begin to tell the story of the reduction in taxable wages…
nor did he mention the fraudulent and profiteering business practices that bankrupted the pensions middle class Americans counted on for their retirement.
David Stockman thinks a “period” of 10% unemployment is a necessary evil for others..
while he takes mega fees for “economic consulting” from the news industry…
he thinks austerity in public policy which translates as more deferred maintenance for infrastructure, less spending on education and a smaller safety net for America’s needy is the answer…
while clearly protected from the effects of that austerity himself.
His message is basically
you guys need to tighten your belts
He did say one thing i agreed with..
and that is that in the rush for profit
and ever expanding profit centers
America has forgotten about business..
well.. at least i will give him the benefit of doubt that he implied that while talking about the banking system…
September 18, 2010 at 3:20 am #703804
HSGParticipantOh, I don’t think most of his points are valid, but I can’t recall hearing anyone else with similar views. I do agree with his assertion that we’ve been pushing our problems into the future for decades and we can’t afford to continue doing that indefinitely.
And, yes I too believe boosting revenue is the key to economic recovery.
September 18, 2010 at 5:25 am #703805
JoBParticipantHSG
“We” havent’ been pushing our problems into the future for decades…
the wealthy have been pushing our problems into the future through the largest transfer of personal wealth in our nation’s history…
the only question was how they were going to sell us our new austerity program:(
September 18, 2010 at 8:59 am #703806
JanSParticipantI, for one, have cut back on spending as much as I can. And so far, my taxes haven’t changed – they’re still too high. What I’m saying here is my reality. When you get down to it, what we really care about most of the time is our own expenses, etc, not our neighbors, or whoever across the country. It’s personal. There are a lot of people who only see as far as their own stuff…and if we cut back on that “stuff” even more, we’ll be living in the car that’s parked out back, that isn’t working at the moment – because we’ve cut back on our spending, so those little necessities are going by the wayside. Yeah…it’s personal. My austerity program is beyond help, JoB.;-) I’m not buyin’ what they’re tryin’ to sell me.
September 18, 2010 at 2:33 pm #703807
SmittyParticipantYeah, the top 10% paying 50% of the taxes is an extreme injustice! (sarcasm)
September 18, 2010 at 3:09 pm #703808
JoBParticipantSmitty…
if the top 10% pay 50% of the taxes under the Bush tax cuts…
what does that tell you about what they are making?
lets get real here.
1 out of 7 Americans now lives below the poverty level…
it is taking an average of 3 years to find work once unemployed
Many of those who do find employment take a position with a substantially reduced salary
a college degree.. even a masters or doctorate is no longer a guarantee of employment
You may be living above all of this Smitty…
but most of us are in the trenches and it isn’t looking good down here…
The rich are paying 50% of the taxes because they have transferred middle America’s wealth into their own pockets…
yes… i think it’s fair that they pay taxes on what they make.
i just don’t think they pay enough.
September 18, 2010 at 4:11 pm #703809
JanSParticipantsimplistic article…interesting comment thread after…
September 18, 2010 at 4:15 pm #703810
c@lbobMemberI want to point out that when a top tax rate of 90% was in place, the best economic times of my life were occurring, certainly the best for me.
Now, that may be because, for most of those years, I was still living with my parents. However, my Electrician father made a good enough living to allow my mother to stay-at-home to work at home raising their three kids. They put them through college, too.
That scenario is such a distant memory, most people don’t realize that it was hardly noteworthy during the fifties and sixties.
Lowering the top tax rate has consistently served to hasten the ruin of this country, IMHO.
September 18, 2010 at 4:36 pm #703811
JoBParticipantsurprise surprise…
according to the federal budget office…
48% of our current deficit is due to tax cuts…
that’s right.. tax cuts.
another 35% is due to military and homeland security expenses…
only 10% is due to so called entitlement programs.
Guess what the republicans want to cut first?
September 18, 2010 at 4:40 pm #703812
JoBParticipantfrom JanS’s link to the Stiglitz article…
“Mr Stiglitz said historical evidence showed that increased state spending helped economies emerge from recession. He added that the example of Ireland showed that austerity leads to declining output, rising unemployment and high bond spreads, instead of renewed investment.”
you can’t wage war, cut taxes on the wealthy and stimulate the economy at the same time…
the quickest way to build revenue is to create jobs… it’s that simple.
September 18, 2010 at 6:41 pm #703813
redblackParticipantsmitty, the top 10% pay 50% of tax revenues because they have 50% of the nation’s income. probably more.
it’s that simple, and it’s not a vast left-wing conspiracy.
have you ever seen the L-curve? it puts income distribution into startling perspective.
September 18, 2010 at 9:35 pm #703814
JoBParticipantredblack..
the wealthy generate a lot more than 50% of income…
but pay only 50% of the tax on income.
funny how that works.
i would go look up the stats..
but i wore myself out gardening :)
that L curve is pretty cool…
but you need to zoom out several times to get the full effect.
September 19, 2010 at 7:20 am #703815
WorldCitizenParticipantJoB:
Where did you get this info? If this is true, then it is probably one of the best arguments for staying away from the policies of the right wing faction of this country.
48% of our current deficit is due to tax cuts…
that’s right.. tax cuts.
another 35% is due to military and homeland security expenses…
only 10% is due to so called entitlement programs.
September 19, 2010 at 9:08 am #703816
c@lbobMemberWorldCitizen,
As JoB pointed out, her assertion is from Congressional Budget Office Budget Outlook reports. Here’s a link to a graph of the data done by one of those liberal websites, one of the many that pay attention to reality, not wishful thinking:
September 19, 2010 at 2:26 pm #703817
EscondidoMemberI would be perfectly happy to have the very rich pay less in tax if they indeed were creating jobs. The problem is that they are not. They are investing the money in the stock market, etc. Anyway, let’s get real- What percentage of their income goes to cover the basics? Basics such as: the very best food, the very best clothing, the very best transportation, the very best vacations! Just a small, small percentage compared to what the average man/woman spends of the same… but not of the very best quality… at all.
September 19, 2010 at 2:46 pm #703818
JoBParticipantEscondido..
haven’t you heard of trickle down economics?
we have been sold a bill of goods created by an actor who became president.. and stayed president in spite of Alzheimer…
the great American con job.
and in the meantime.. the wonderful people who brought you trickle down economics and busted your pension plans and speculated your retirement account away are going after your social security.
and they will get it too.
it’s time for middle America to wake up before we become the third world country that some foreign philanthropist sends relief money to.
god knows ours aren’t spending here.
September 19, 2010 at 3:11 pm #703819
SmittyParticipantTrickle down economics > Trickle up poverty.
September 19, 2010 at 3:19 pm #703820
JoBParticipantSmitty…
poverty isn’t trickling up.. it is surging up.
and it’s brought to you by those wonderful folks who are trying to capitalize on your anger to propel themselves into a majority in congress so they can sell you another slogan to distract you from the hand in your pocket.
are you buying it this time?
September 19, 2010 at 3:46 pm #703821
SmittyParticipantThe D’s have controlled both houses for four years and the oval office for two.
So yes, I am just searching for some hope, change, or both.
September 19, 2010 at 3:52 pm #703822
c@lbobMemberThe Democrats and Obama have averted another Great Depression. Their financial recovery is transforming our economy and providing credit for new business that the vaunted market is not providing. Smart people, like Elizabeth Warren have been put into positions where the are benefitting people like me.
The only thing Republicans have done for thirty years is line the pockets of the rich.
September 19, 2010 at 4:04 pm #703823
JoBParticipantsmitty..
i can see why you would want to save yourself from the folks who saved your bacon…
ok.. so i can’t see why you would sign on for another roller coaster con job brought to you by the people who don’t have your best interests in mind…
unless, of course.. you are one of the top 1.5% whose wealth rose exponentially during the downturn and would like that trend to continue indefinitely…
the other 98.5% of us would benefit from a genuine recovery that includes American factories and American jobs.
I am so liking that idea.
September 19, 2010 at 4:18 pm #703824
c@lbobMemberJoB
Your use of the percentages in relation to tax policy benefit hits home with me.
In April, I was fully expecting to send a check for a couple of thousand dollars to the IRS. Instead, we got a refund of $750.
I have been doing the federal taxes since 1966. At no other time during that 43 year period did I realize a larger tax benefit – in either dollars or percentage.
Thank you, Barack Obama.
September 19, 2010 at 5:35 pm #703825
JoBParticipantc@lbob
and i am guessing that like ours.. yours’ won’t go away if they extend the tax cuts for the middle class and let those for the top 2% expire…
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