censorship on the WSB

[pattilea]

I read the rules, maybe I missed one, that wasn’t there. My post was deleted twice….what gives? There are new readers here everyday, and I wished to speak the truth.

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[Ms. Sparkles]

I’ve had posts that I thought followed the ruled deleted too. I figure it’s their website and they can do as they wish.

I understand the desire not to let people just randomly trash a business, but I do find the requirement that you try to speak with a manager and get a problem resolved with them first (which I believe you posted that you attempted to do – but no one would tell you who it who it was) is a little much.

Sometimes you just get crappy service and want to vent; but WSB has determined that their forums are not the place for that. Probably a decision somewhat influenced by the WSB’s dependence on local business advertising revenues – which I do not fault them for because they do provide a good, free to the public news service.

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[2 Much Whine]

Occasionally posts get caught in the spam filter. I’ve had a few posts that I thought might have been blocked or something but I didn’t get worked up and within half an hour or so they appeared with no additional action on my part. Now I just think of my posts as a sort of verbal graffiti. I, of course, think all my “work” is beautiful but since I am “painting” on WSB’s wall they can paint over it if they want to. . . . I just get over it and move on. Frankly, it doesn’t appear that they respond unreasonably, single anyone out or are ever inconsistent in their approach. There are plenty of other things to discuss.

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[JayDee]

Yelp also deletes unfavorable reviews of restaurants, even if said reviews are based on actual experience. Even places in West Seattle. The WSB spam filter catches words or phrases that may possibly be pejorative, even if they are contextually correct.

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[KBear]

Also, it’s not “censorship” when the owner of a web site removes content from their own site. No one but the owners has the right to say whatever they want here, and if they don’t like what you post, they have every right to remove it, for any reason or for no reason at all. Too bad for you, but it’s not as if they’ve violated your rights in some way.

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[sacatosh]

Did you email or call the editor? Their contact info is prominently displayed. Perhaps it’s in the spam filter, perhaps it’s been removed, perhaps it never posted, perhaps someone you have on your “ignore” list responded last and the thread disappeared.

If you’re talking about the massage thread, I see it. Right here: https://westseattleblog.com/forum/topic/laveda-massagenot-so-good

Really, though. Shoot an email to WSB and simply ask your question.

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[WSB]

What the first person is asking about is a repost of a rant they posted here a month ago, which a member (not related to the target of the rant) pointed out to us in their note flagging the repost was almost word for word a cut and paste from a month ago. (No, it was NOT the one about the establishment where they couldn’t find out who the manager was.)

Every time some establishment is mentioned, it is NOT a new opportunity for someone to repeat some gripe they’ve already brought up. Once you’ve ranted, you’ve ranted, it’s been discussed, that’s it. And if it’s a rant or rave, even if it’s new, keep it in a relevant thread, don’t append it to something that’s an event announcement or otherwise unrelated, which in this case it was. If people are doing research on that establishment, they will find your original post; this site ranks very high in search engines.

As for the critique of our rules: After we’d had rants and raves – which were implemented by reader request – going for a while, we researched best practices and found someone who does this kind of thing on the other side of the country had a policy about bringing the complaint to the attention of the establishment first. We thought about it and realized it is an easy way to be try to be semi-fair to rant targets. Otherwise, you can just make stuff up. This way, even though it’s still an honor system that you CLAIM you’ve brought it to the owner/manager’s attention, at least if it turns out you did make that up, they have the right to post a reply and say “Sorry, this is the first we’ve heard of this, who did you talk to and when?”

We also require Crime Watch report-senders, by the way, to have called the police first. Sort of a related policy. We’re not the police. If you have a situation to report, that’s where you go first. And by the way, if your rant/rave situation is so touchy that you feel you are jeopardizing your safety by going to the manager/owner, then you need to take it to police or other authorities, not just post about it and hope that’ll fix it.

Yes, this does set us apart from sites like Y@lp, and we’re proud of it. I have read threads on there about local establishments that made my jaw drop. But that’s how they choose to run their site, and they have that right, as we have the right to have tougher rules here. (We have rules for raves too. Someone recently claimed they believed those rules were being flouted by representatives of a certain business posting raves and not identifying themselves. We researched and discovered that what the complainer was CERTAIN were fakes … were comments posted by people who had been members here for at least 2 years and had all actively commented on dozens of other topics over those years. Doesn’t mean there might not be a case of astroturfing out there somewhere, but that wasn’t it.)

As for suggesting our rules are revenue-driven – that’s a little insulting. If we were fearful that rants-and-raves jeopardized our bottom line, we wouldn’t HAVE a rant-and-rave section. The last few rant threads posted here are about sponsors, in fact, fwiw. As I’ve said before, if any sponsor ever threatens to cancel her/his ad because we allowed a not-rule-breaking rant to stand, or something else they felt was unfavorable to them, then that’s a business I don’t want anything to do with anyway, because that would be an unethical threat for them to make. And a cancellation threat doesn’t strike fear into our hearts because our ad rates are so rock-bottom cheap (we haven’t EVER raised them despite traffic multiplying 8fold), we could say “OK, if you feel that way, sorry to hear it but we understand” and losing the ad won’t kill us, so we don’t EVER have to even think about compromising our ethics and integrity.

I am proud to say that while the rant-and-rave section does cause a fair amount of grief, the only time I have heard about someone complaining in relation to an alleged financial relationship is someone who had advertised with us months before a rant appeared and called us irate that we would allow the rant to stand because they had advertised here once and gosh darn it, didn’t that entitle them to demand that it be pulled? Sorry, no. And there was someone who once told us that if we pulled a rant about them, they might consider advertising with us (not that we had ever asked them to). Sorry, no. (I could spend the day going on about other threats made against us because of things that have appeared on the site, mostly the forum, or rule-breaking comments/posts we’ve deleted over the years, but I am way behind on work as it is.)

TLDNR, perhaps, but this one seemed to need some clarification. – TR

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[sacatosh]

Also, it’s not “censorship” when the owner of a web site removes content from their own site. No one but the owners has the right to say whatever they want here, and if they don’t like what you post, they have every right to remove it, for any reason or for no reason at all. Too bad for you, but it’s not as if they’ve violated your rights in some way.

YES! Exactly.

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[redblack]

if i may, these forums are actually a pretty generous gift to the community, and they’ve evolved into their own institution, it seems.

some of us abuse that generosity, or at least push it to the limits. i’m probably guilty of that myself. but i understand that my “rights” here are not guaranteed, and i expect that if i offend, i will get posts pulled or my email address blocked.

it’s an honor system, imho.

anyway, i think we owe WSB a debt of gratitude for allowing us to reach out and hug – or punch – our neighbors so easily. it’s a void that most people don’t care enough to fill.

thanks again, WSB. and cheers.

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[JV]

Holy Geezzzz, for the first time ever, I agree with redblack!

WSB, I appreciate the forum to discuss these topics, and I think it’s a valuable service to provide because people rarely look at another point of view.

I also appreciate the opportunity to tell redblack (and the rest of the readers) why he is wrong…all the time. GAME ON! =)

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[JV]

BTW, how do you do that cool thing where you cut and paste other posters comments into your replies?

Thanks!

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[pattilea]

OKAY OKAY I get it. Thank you WSB, I do enjoy this site. When I posted the second time, I thought I had done something wrong and that it hadn’t gone through. I hadn’t even thought something that I wrote would have been taken down! I really am a loving kind native west seattle born and raised lady. But I get mad at people that do bad things to children! And people that do BAD things to children should not prosper here in west seattle!

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[casaboba]

WSB:

Ever consider some sort of an Ombudsman? Maybe you have something in-place which serves a similar purpose?

As a convenience, for readers who may not be familiar with the term, I have pasted an explaination of the ombudsman role below.

What is a news ombudsman?

A news ombudsman receives and investigates complaints from newspaper readers or listeners or viewers of radio and television stations about accuracy, fairness, balance and good taste in news coverage. He or she recommends appropriate remedies or responses to correct or clarify news reports. (Source Link Below)

http://www.newsombudsmen.org/what.htm

Keep up the good work!

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[DBP]

JV:

Block quoting is done with HTML* tags.

Type you entry exactly as shown above, substituting the material you wish to quote for the sample text.

Other HTML tags you can use on this site include:

“em” (to italicize text)

“strong” (to make bold text)

For each one, you have to use an opening and closing tag, just like for the blockquote tag. All HTML tags must be enclosed in angle brackets, like this < >.

***************************************************************************************

*HTML = HyperText Markup Language

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[JV]

DBP,

Thanks for your help!

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[WSB]

CasaB – It would be a great idea but like almost all great ideas, it would cost money. We have a long priority list of what we would do if we had more. Top of my list is finding and hiring another experienced professional journalist to help edit and report bonafide hard news. But keep the ideas coming, they’ll be achievable someday :) – TR

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[casaboba]

I understand your point. Resource allocation is always a challenging opportunity. You run a good business and as it grows increasingly new demands are placed upon it. I would be saddened to see your organization consumed by a role an Ombudsman could provide.

This may be an idea you have explored but I feel worth mentioning. Since the WSB is “plowing new media ground” perhaps there is a retired Journalism Professional willing to be a pioneer with you, gratis?

Personally, I think that the WSB is carving out the cache to attract an experienced Ombudsperson.

However candidly, what the heck do I know?

Keep up the good work!

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