abortions

[Anonymous]

JanS – The age issue is why I feel that all high school students should be provided birth control, should they so choose.

If a young girl decides NOT to use that birth control available to her and gets pregnant, then I do feel that, in order to terminate that pregnancy, she should have her parents consent. If there are repercussions for a young adults’ actions in place, they are less likely to make the wrong decisions. Being a mother, I’m sure you have seen the effects of this.

The fact that your daughter was exposed to a discussion regarding abortion in the second grade is horrifying. I completely agree that that is unacceptable. This is why, if a parent wants to discuss this issue privately with their children, I believe they should have that right. If parents are not comfortable doing so and would like another adult to have that discussion, they should elect to have their children take a sex education course in middle or high school. (I lean towards middle school because I think todays children are growing up a lot faster than generations past and the best defense in that regard, IMO, is proper education).

Second grade is way too young. Hopefully calls were made and, at the very least, the school was notified of your dissatisfaction.

You’re right, it is not an ideal world. But I believe in taking the steps to making it closer.

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[RainyDay1235]

NR – A agree with a lot of what you said. But yes, it troubles me greatly that there is NO LIMIT to age of consent in WA to have an abortion. The thought of my “child” having a major surgery without my knowledge seems insane.

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[angelescrest]

As much as you don’t want a 16 yr. old to decide for herself, I must disagree. If she can’t talk to her parent(s) about the pregnancy, chances are there’s some familial dysfunction/conflict–and having to seek their approval might put her in danger. My 17 yr. old would argue vociferously for her right to choose and the rights of other young women as well.

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[JanS]

NR…my daughter finished out that school year, and I moved her to a public school.

I’m glad to hear that you approve of sex education…and yes, if provided in school, middles school is definitely the place. A lot of..experimenting..starts then. Parents – in an ideal world again, I suppose – should, in my book, communicate often with their children. Never stop the conversations, make sure they like talking to you, don’t talk down to them, engage them in discussing things. I made sure that my daughter knew that she could always come to me, to talk, to ask, whatever. And I treated her friends the same way.

When abortion was brought up, it started the ball rolling about talking aobut sex, but way too early for me. We still had to do it, in a way that was age appropriate. We made sure that it wasn’t a “taboo” subject.

Rainy…I agree, it does seem insane that they can have an abortion without consent…an that brings up a whole other topic of conversation to go along with this. Not an easy subject at all, is it?

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[Anonymous]

JanS – You made the best of the circumstances around you and your daughter and, in my book, that’s wonderful. And good for you that you took action and placed your daughter in a different school.

Not all parents can openly talk with their children (especially about uncomfortable issues such as these), as angelscrest brings up.

The parents, like yourself, JanS, that make that conscious effort to communicate with their children and keep those lines open, know what parenting is and what it’s about. That’s what I think anyways.

Our society needs more parents like you.

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[datamuse]

NR, I’m curious about one point you made, and want to be sure I understand correctly:

Students should have their parents’ permission to take a sex ed class, but birth control should simply be provided at the high school level?

How do you ensure that it’s used properly if the kid hasn’t had permission to take the class? Several of the non-prescription methods are far from foolproof.

(As for me, my first sex ed class was in fifth grade, years before I ever contemplated using any of the information I was getting, and yes parental permission was required. I think there’s something to be said for getting this information in a neutral environment before you really need it, as it were.)

Also, one dimension that hasn’t been explored here is the effect of the availability of birth control on the number of abortions. How many women choose to abort because birth control wasn’t readily available where they live? I don’t know, and I have to get back to work so I can’t look up those stats right now, but I think it’s germane.

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[Zenguy]

NR, the solution is simple. Every woman gets an abortion punch card at puberty, when they have used them all up they are on their own.

Or does that just sound stupid???

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[Anonymous]

datamuse – I like that question you pose regarding the effect of availability of birth control in relation to the number of abortions. I think that’s a statistic worth exploring. Maybe I will be able to do some research in that direction.

It’s a hard call regarding supplying birth control and teaching responsible birth control methods in schools. I won’t deny that and neither will I imply that I know the best answer.

I think the parents that choose to NOT have their children participate in a sex education class provided by the school, are the parents that are electing to have those conversations privately with their children. Of course, we (as a society) would be hard pressed to ensure that is taking place, but at least their are options for those parents that are not comfortable talking with their children.

As a parent, I plan to have that discussion with my child and part of that discussion involves safe, effective birth control methods. If I educate my child on the proper use of birth control, I would be comfortable with such birth control being provided through the school.

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[Anonymous]

datamuse – I was able to do a little bit of research on the question you presented (however, I’m not the best at research), but I did find this article including tables of statistics. It’s pretty interesting if you have the time to check it out.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3429402.html

Zenguy – I’m not gonna touch that! :)

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[RainyDay1235]

>>I think the parents that choose to NOT have their children participate in a sex education class provided by the school, are the parents that are electing to have those conversations privately with their children.

And see – I would think it’s the exact opposite. No offense to anyone’s religion, but it seems deeply religous families seem to have a harder time openly discussing these issues with their children – and yet many of those are the same families who sign the waivers for their children NOT to participate in such classes (which I 100% support their right to do so as a parent btw).

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[Zenguy]

And anyone that thinks kids as young as twelve are not having sex is kidding themselves.

Aside from the pregnancy issue, there are so many other reason to teach kids about sex and the pitfalls, HIV/AIDS, Herpes and many other sexually transmitted diseases.

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[datamuse]

NR–thanks for the link. I’ve only had time to skim it but one factor that came through loud and clear was education: perceptions among nonusers of contraception that they were at low risk for pregnancy, for example, indicating to me that they didn’t really understand how fertility works; plus ambivalence about contraception in general. And access due to “financial or other barriers” is also cited as a factor.

The education question really is an issue, I think. My mom was acquainted with the mother of a classmate of mine in junior high school, who not only wouldn’t sign her daughter’s permission slip, but wanted public-school sex ed programs discontinued entirely. Personally I’m a fan of having information before you need it, which is probably why I became a professional librarian. I did peer-to-peer sex ed programs in high school and think they’re a good idea, since studies show that people, particularly teens, are most likely to ask peers for advice even when they know that their peers aren’t the best sources of information.

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[beachdrivegirl]

Datamuse-

I am 110% behind you when you suggest peer-to-peer eudcation in general. I think it really gets students (kids) talking and potentially answers questions before they even become an issue.

NR,

I have been slammed today, but look forward to reading your link tonight. :)

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[Magpie]

Here is a link that has some information that might be interesting to some of you. This is from today on Newsweek on line and it has some challenges to some of what is being said here. Sex ed is working for teenagers, but there are complex reasons that older women appear to be the ones having abortions. Also, abortions overall appear to be way down.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/160401rom

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[datamuse]

Magpie, I believe the study they’re referring to is one I quoted on a previous page of this discussion. What they say about access to contraceptives, particularly financial barriers, correlates with the link NR posted.

For the record, I’m solidly pro-choice. I also happen to think it’s a choice most women would rather not have to make.

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[add]

I didn’t really think I would post to this thread, but with the discussion regarding “sex education” for middle schoolers, I took the bait! Actually, the whole puberty thing starts much earlier than middle school. My kids recieved the FLASH curriculum starting in 4th grade (Family Life and Sexual Health) – parents were required to opt-in. At first I thought, “Fourth grade? Yikes!” But, the curriculum is very well done, both my kids had the same teacher, who was incredibly good at handling this topic, (he was their classroom teacher as well) – and what I realized was that they were exposed to a LOT more than I expected at that age. I agree with other posters that it’s better for kids to have the basic info before they really need it – it gives a foundation for them to understand what’s happening and also the questions they should be asking. It opened up some interesting conversation with my kids, and my hope/intention is that these conversations will continue as they get older.

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