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September 19, 2008 at 8:45 pm #639996
RainyDay1235MemberWhat do all the people (in and out of our failing prison system) who steal, rape and murder seem to have in common? Bad childhoods.
Can you imagine what a better place this overpopulated world would be if every child that was BORN was WANTED, PLANNED FOR, LOVED and NURTURED.
The mind reels with the potential the human race could achieve.
September 19, 2008 at 8:50 pm #639997
LBGMemberFirst of all…Sue, your post is ridiculous. The body would expel the baby in about 2 weeks if the baby had died. That is a fact.
I also know for a fact that if this situation does occur, they will ask you immediately when you would like to schedule delivery. Call Swedish or any hospital in the area and ask them.
Secondly, IMO, all this discussion is fluff. With an abortion, you are ending a life…killing a baby. Period. If you are ok with killing a baby, so be it but don’t try to morally rationalize it. The baby is not part of a woman’s body. The baby has it’s own DNA unlike a woman’s liver, stomach, heart, etc.
I just get so tired of everybody deciding that death, and often brutal death, would be the best thing for a baby because this is such a big bad world. I think, if given the choice, the baby would actually try to make a go of it instead of having scissors stuck thru the back of its head or being sucked out by a vacuum…
September 19, 2008 at 8:51 pm #639998
JanSParticipantRS…a question..near which Safeway? I’ve lived in WS for 33 years and have never heard of it…wow…
I won’t enter the fray here. I have my personal views of abortion, and like abortion, they are personal to me. Those who know me know how I feel.
One thing I will say, though, is that I believe whole heartedly that men, unless they are the established parent of said fetus, have no say in this.
And birth control? Don’t get me started on that. We all know that there is “casual” sex in the world, that people who have sex at times are not in a committed relationship. How many of those men show up with condoms in hand? Yes, it’s my body that will get pregnant, but it takes two to do it, and it’s incredible the number of men who don’t even think about that.(I’m 61, I’ve been on the earth for quite some time, have a little knowledge of this)..So I advocate to men…and I don’t mean this lightly…if you object to women having abortions take responsibility for yourselves when you are having sex…not just every now and then, but EVERY TIME. Without sperm , there is no pregnancy. And stop telling women what they can and can’t do with their bodies.
Back to my hole.:)
September 19, 2008 at 8:55 pm #639999
AnonymousInactiveI don’t know that abortions are provided, but there is a planned parenthood across the street from Roxbury Safeway.
September 19, 2008 at 8:59 pm #640000
AnonymousInactive“The reality is the Constitution doesn’t address the subject (abortion) at all,” – Judge Scalia
RS – To use the penumbra theory as the final rule, or say-so, of an argument is insufficient when the very definition of penumbra is:
The rights guaranteed by implication in a constitution or the implied powers of a rule.
Who are we to say what is truly trying to be “implied” in the Constitution? We can only speculate. The Constitution, itself, also holds no language to support the right to privacy.
These are factors that are important and hold value to me when the argument that “To have an abortion is my Constitutional right” is expressed.
JimmyG – I would have to ask you, if an abortion is, in your opinion, a standard, legal medical procedure (no more, no less), why, then is abortion not covered by insurance?
marianne – I definitely understand the sentiment that an abortion is no one’s business but your own. However, abortion today, the frequency of it, the reasons for it, is what is bothersome to most.
September 19, 2008 at 9:06 pm #640001
JenVMemberMy point is, if you don’t like abortion, don’t have one. Keep your opinions, religion and everything else away from my body. It’s my choice and it’s protected by law. If you don’t like it, that is your problem. Not mine. And I could give a rats ass about YOUR opinion about MY life.
September 19, 2008 at 9:08 pm #640002
GenHillOneParticipantIn all honesty folks, is this even a worthy discussion? Is there anyone that feels like this is a subject on which your personal opinion might be swayed by talking about it here? Or that you might be able to sway someone else’s opinion?
It’s not like new information is coming out daily. I know the arguments on both sides and I don’t foresee my beliefs changing one iota. But I do see that in all likelihood this thread will dissolve into a train wreck of insults. It’s a very volatile subject and I think most people feel strongly about whichever opinion they have. I’m not going to change my mind, so thankfully I have the CHOICE to avoid this thread in the future.
September 19, 2008 at 9:10 pm #640003
JenVMemberone would hope, GHO, that would put this to bed. But I imagine it won’t. Good for all of you who are so much more morally superior in your own minds than the rest of us heathens.
If we’re going to hell, I call the window seat!
September 19, 2008 at 9:10 pm #640004
CaduceusMemberLGB – According to the English language a baby, or child or infant when pertaining to before-birth is a human fetus. Whether or not it has it’s own DNA doesn’t matter.
Do you make every precaution to avoid ending everything’s life that has DNA? DO you walk with a broom infront of you everywhere you go, rather than something “murderous” like drive a car that would kill innumerable innocent bugs or small animals all of whom have their own DNA? Why do you get to nit-pick and “pick and choose” and then make a flat decision for all the women in this country as your opinion? How does that make sense?
An Ebryo and a Fetus are part of a woman’s body, they are literally connected at the celluar level.
There have been few people in this thread who do not approve of early abortions but a few have stated that they are un-easy about late-term abortions I.E. a fetus I.E. a child.
So what exactly are you opposing? Late term abortion? And if not, than what are you against when it comes early-term abortion?
And Jan you say it takes two to create this problem in the first place but then you say we men have no say once what’s done is done? I believe in a relationship the cnocept of consdiering another person’s feelings will come into play.
And if it was casual sex, well now you get into “Does she or does not have the right..” etc etc
But to say that men do not deserve to contribute to this discussion overall is entirely illogical.
September 19, 2008 at 9:10 pm #640005
JanSParticipantNew Res…I will ask you this question then…if, as some believe , that a fetus is a living being at conception, why can’t I get life insurance on that “child”? Gets complicated doesn’t it?
As far as abortion not being covered by medical insurance, there are many medical procedures not covered by insurance, such as plastic surgery procedures, because they are considered a personal choice. I don’t always agree with insurance decisions, but, hey, we can’t have everything.
September 19, 2008 at 9:17 pm #640006
TraciMemberNothing anybody says will change any minds here.
This is one of those subjects that people will never come to an understanding about. I know that if I choose to have an abortion I couldn’t live with myself and would in any situation LOVE being a mom and things would work out fine. Leaving the politics out, that’s what it boils down to for me.
We get so fixated on these things that we lose perspective on the other stuff in life and in our world.
September 19, 2008 at 9:19 pm #640007
AnonymousInactiveCad – I agree. I don’t feel that it is fair to tell a man that he should not contribute to the discussion. All viewpoints are interesting to me.
GHO – I agree, also, that most of our minds are already made up on this issue. I find discussion, though, very fulfilling. I think members on this forum can choose to have an adult conversation about this delicate topic and others will choose to resort to insulting and nastiness.
Lastly, I always learn something new (whether it be what another member posts, or through research of my own in supporting my own opinion) when I participate in discussion here (most the time). So, I guess I’m being a little selfish by participating in this discussion.
September 19, 2008 at 9:22 pm #640008
JanSParticipantCaduceus…I believe I said that men have a part in it if they are the established father…I think that was clear. It is still a personal choice between him and the woman he impregnated.
You, as a male, have no say in the choices I make with my body in general, but specifically about reproductive rights unless you are the one participating. And if you are participating, with anyone, I certainly hope you’re not leaving the decision of birth control up to your partner. It should go without saying that it should be foremost in your mind unless you are planning a child with your partner…agreed?
September 19, 2008 at 9:23 pm #640009
LBGMemberCaduceus…are you actually comparing human life to bugs on the ground? If so, have fun with that. You should rush out and get a PETA membership right away.
You are wrong about the cells. Sorry. As soon as conception occurs, the BABY has it’s own life print(DNA). Again, misinformation.
You can choose to call it an EMBRYO or a FETUS if that helps you sleep at night. To me, it is a new life not an appendage..and that life is destroyed by an abortion.
September 19, 2008 at 9:29 pm #640010
JenVMembergood for you, LBG. Don’t have one then. But don’t use your emotionally charged WORDS to try to make us all feel badly about your choice. No one is going to have their minds changed here, as some people pointed out. But by all means, people, beat this into the ground if you want. I for one am off this discussion 100% – maybe I’ll go donate some more $$ to Planned Parenthood!
September 19, 2008 at 9:41 pm #640011
LBGMemberJenV..I am not trying to make you feel bad. If you feel fine about your choices…so be it. Everybody else states their opinion and then people line up to pat them on the back.
I just have a different opinion on the matter. I stated “IMO” from the get go.
September 19, 2008 at 9:42 pm #640012
RainyDay1235Member>…in addition 70% of this 60% stated that they would NEVER have an abortion again.
And only 50% of “marriages” actually work, so should we take away people’s right to get married? People make choices every day. Some you stand by, some you regret. That will never change. It’s easy to “regret” a choice when you never had to deal with the reprecussions of the opposite deciosn. Anything can look rosey in hindsight.
My feeling is – you live your life and let me live mine. Old Republican white men will NOT control my body, my religion, or my very personal choices. And I am really hoping to have a baby someday!
BUMPER STICKERS SEEM TO SAY IT BEST:
IF YOU CAN’T TRUST ME WITH A CHOICE, HOW CAN YOU TRUST ME WITH A CHILD?
AGAINST ABORTION? DON’T HAVE ONE!
KEEP YOUR THEOLOGY OFF MY BIOLOGY
KEEP ABORTION SAFE, LEGAL AND RARE (I really like this one!)
September 19, 2008 at 9:43 pm #640013
CaduceusMemberLGB, I was pointing out if you’re going to be so adamant about saving the life of a group of newly formed cells, why not be adamant in saving the lives of everything that is…alive? My post was elaborating on yours, since your opinions are abrasive and vague. I was not reflecting my own philosphies in what I was asking or telling you hence me asking you a question or two.
A life is a life, anything further is apples, oranges and personal view-point.
And I couldn’t conciously join PETA, I love meat too much. :]
September 19, 2008 at 9:47 pm #640014
AnonymousInactiveOne thing I find interesting, or maybe contradictory, is this:
If having an abortion is your “right” and no one can take that “right” away from you (you are protected by law), why would you feel “bad” about that “right”?
I’m certainly not demeaning anyone with this question, but trying to understand the logic behind this argument.
If you are adamant that an abortion is NOT “killing” another human life, a fetus is NOT connected to your body (but an entirely separate being in itself) and a fetus feels absolutely NO pain, what would there be to “feel bad” about?
September 19, 2008 at 9:56 pm #640015
LBGMemberRiany Day 1235…”Old Republican White Men”? Wow…what a generalization that is.
How about this bumper sticker…
I’M GLAD I DIDN’T KILL MY UNBORN BABY BECAUSE NOW THEY ARE AN HONOR STUDENT AT WASHINGTON MIDDLE SCHOOL
Caduceus..I don’t think I have been vague at all and I guess my comments could be abrasive if you don’t agree with my opinion. Other people’s comment are abrasive to me because I don’t share their opinion. As far as meat goes, I was kinda thinking a fat Jak’s steak sounds pretty good right now…
NewRes…word-up on that point.
September 19, 2008 at 10:03 pm #640016
marianneParticipantNo one’s mind is going to be changed here.
Currently, the law protects a woman’s right to decide what happens to her body. I do not take this right for granted.
That is why I vote I do.
That’s it.
September 19, 2008 at 10:05 pm #640017
JenVMemberI don’t feel bad about my personal choices in life. But you all are using your emotionally charged terms like FETUS, EMBRYO to try to make people feel bad. I have no shame, no regrets for anything I have done.
I could have had a child- and then abandoned it like my mother abandoned me- would that make me a better or worse person??
You can all go to hell with your holier than thou attitudes. Look down on me all you want. I am happy with who I am and where I am in life. And I will continue to fight for women’s rights.
September 19, 2008 at 10:18 pm #640018
LBGMemberJenV…I took those terms directly form Caduceus’ post. Besides, isn’t that the terminology that you would use?
I’m also not trying to make anybody feel bad. If you truly believe what you believe, what do you have to feel bad about?
I’m glad you are happy with your life, no sarcasm intended. I just believe differently than you.
September 19, 2008 at 10:24 pm #640019
beachdrivegirlParticipantGreat Point NR!
And LBG you beat me to b/c i hate to break it to eveyrbody but I am pretty far away from being an old white Republican man… (NR i now feel your Republican pain.)Also, LBG I would gladly buy and sell those bumper stickers any day.
Funny that medical terms about a medical procedure can be considered emotionally charged now. They are a medical term. Also funny that people sit here and question statistics but think that their opiinion should count more than. Personally, I take statistics and studies anyday over someones emotional fueled fire.
and lastly, I want to question why men get the short in of the stick in an abortion?? They dont have to sign a release form for their unborn child’s life to be terminated. why is that okay?? Not all men are a-holes. In fact, most i know are from for it and i think these same men would be pissed if they found out their g/f or wives were out terminating their pregnaniies without there consent.
September 19, 2008 at 10:28 pm #640020
CaitParticipant“I find it interesting also that 31% of women who have had an abortion state that they would have done it differently if they had it to do all over again. Furthermore, studies have shown that 60% of women whom have had abortions (in this same study) show emotional distress after an abortion. in addition 70% of this 60% stated that they would NEVER have an abortion again.” – BDG
I would argue that these women would feel much differently if they were not made to feel terrible by the religious right and men who will never be in their shoes. How would women feel naturally if they were allowed to make these decisions without the constant political yammering of those who believe they are the experts on when life starts.
I think emotional distress is completely understandable and it’s never a decision to be taken lightly. For those women however whose health is in jeopardy when they go into a pregnancy or are in the unfortunate circumstance of being raped – those people are included in your statistics and tell me this – should THEY really feel that way as well? Should that even be taken into account? Of course they feel terrible, they never want to do it again and wish they never had to do it. Not every person who gets an abortion is a delinquent guilty of making a terrible decision – these are women whose lives you don’t know and ones whose lives you may know. It’s not a terrible decision – it’s just a terrible decision to have to make.
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