abortions

[beachdrivegirl]

obviously you chose not to read the entire thread. or you would have seen that i stated in my first post that i believe in the case of medical reasons, incest, and rape abortions are sometimes needed. i have stated i believe that abortions should be more regulated b/c it concerns me that there are five times more abortionst today then there were 20 years ago. one in three women will have an abortion.

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[villagegreen]

The question of why a woman who has an abortion would feel bad even though they fully believe abortion should be every woman’s right is completely ludicrous.

I’m not a woman, but it seems to me that when one becomes pregnant it would automatically bring up a whole slew of emotions. And if you choose to terminate the pregnancy there would probably be a sense of loss. It has nothing to do with ‘killing a life’ – more a sense of lost possibility and questions of what could have been, even though most women who have abortions (IMO) are doing the responsible thing.

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[Cait]

I did, but what I’m saying is that those people are included in your statistics. I think that they would be much different if we delved into who we were asking there. How people feel about them personally is interesting to look into but I really think that you can’t rely on those statistics – what are people supposed to say that they felt great about it and would do it again?

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[beachdrivegirl]

I suppose that is true about those included in the statistics.

Villagegreen but they are making an emotional decision when they are emottionally unbalanced.

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

Here’s something I wonder: there are waitlists for adoptions…yes, NR, this is true.

In this case, that is:

IF you are a white, healthy, no exposure to alcohol or substances, and no special needs. yes, for those babies, there is a wait list.

Do you have any idea how many kids languish in the foster care system? No one wants to adopt those children, and people don’t want to hear about them, unless it is to donate their old clothes.

I am also pro-choice, and I don’t presume to to tell any body what to do with their body. But that is not the point of this post.

But I will have more than a little to say when someone dares to say that “American citizens that want, more than anything, to raise children have to wait years for a child to become available. This is part of why so many American’s adopt from other countries.”

No. Part of it is racism–people would rather adopt from China or Ethiopia (and this makes NO sense to me) than to adopt an African American child born here in the US.

Part of it is the fear of birth parents. People have a fear of birth parents coming back, sadly enough.

And lack of sex education with our teenagers IS AN ISSUE!!!

Here’s an excerpt from a report from the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute:

African American children who come into contact with the child welfare system are disproportionately represented in foster care, and are less likely than children of other racial and ethnic groups to move to permanency in a timely way. These children account for 15 percent of the U.S. child population but, in FY2006, they represented 32 percent of the 510,000 children in foster care. Black children, as well as Native American children, also have lower rates of adoption than those of other races and ethnicities (U.S. DHHS, 2008a; U.S. GAO, 2007).

In Washington State, it is even more obvious.

http://www1.dshs.wa.gov/ca/pubs/disproportion.asp

I am not trying to be mean, or belittle the argument, but when it comes to children without permanent homes, and citizens at large saying that there are plenty of homes for children…I get pretty angry. I wish it were true.

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[Cait]

I suppose the last paragraph was not directed at anyone for an answer – just trying to shed some light on why those statistics would be the way that they are. I hate to say it because they seem irrelevant to me – how would any one be able to answer those questions in a black and white fashion?

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[Cait]

Do any other women out there feel a little alienated by the fact that their body is their personal property while their fetuses are sociological property? I did a paper on this for a women’s studies class in college and I actually found it today!

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[angelescrest]

Thank you, Soc. How to help those kids might be a more productive forum topic.

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[JenV]

BDG: “but they are making an emotional decision when they are emotionally unbalanced.”

how dare you presume to know someone’s emotional state at that time? what a huge generalization.

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[LBG]

If it’s a medical procedure and not a life, what’s to feel bad about? When you have a kidney removed, do you feel bad? If an ovarian cyst is taken out, are you emotionally distraught and wonder what could have been with that cyst?

Why is the emotion there if you are not ending life or, the more sterile, “terminating a pregnancy”…

Why is this a left or right thing or a religious or non-religious thing? I think it boils down to when you believe life begins and if that life is then given rights under the constitution…

as an aside…less than 1% of people have abortions due to rape an incest.

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[FullTilt]

“If we’re going to hell, I call the window seat!”

I call shotgun.

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[JenV]

alright then – let’s have people who have actually had an abortion weigh in here, since you all like to talk so damn much. I had one, don’t feel bad about it, never did and never will. It was simply the only choice for me at that time, and I made that choice clearly and under no emotional duress.

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[beachdrivegirl]

Maybe I make those judgements based on my past experiences with people who have had abortions rather than what *I* think these women might feel.

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[beachdrivegirl]

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[JoB]

beachdrivegirl..

100% of women who give their babies up for adoption show emotional distress afterward.

i don’t know what the suicide rates or because noone has tracked it that i am aware of…

****

there is such a need for adopted children to find their birth mothers that there is a huge business built around tracking them down… and now.. a reality show:(

adoption isn’t the huge hug fest that outsiders think it is… birth families, adopted kids, and adopted families.

****

If you provide adequate services for unmarried mothers and their children, they have more options to choose not to abort than if you don’t.

right now we don’t.

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[RS]

Thanks for the perspective and for sharing, JenV. I worked at a PP in the abortion clinic and saw as many varieties of situations as there were patients. Some people I encountered made me question their decision-making skills, but then I started wondering what kind of childhood or circumstances or violence or lack of opportunity or lack of people teaching them to give a damn about themselves had led them to make those choices. And then as hard as it was sometimes, I stopped judging *anybody* for being there.

And a note on the other thread, having had very first-hand experience with some of those protesters, I personally believe that they are often evil, manipulative f***ers and against my general policy in life, I think very very dark thoughts at them on a regular basis.

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[Cait]

JenV – THANK YOU! I have respect for someone who speaks up like that! Personally, I have never had one and most of my opinions come from my political views and my background in women’s studies. It takes truly thinking and delving for those of us who have not had abortions in order to think about the dynamics that go on in that situation and they are NUMEROUS and complicated.

I personally think that anyone who passes judgment on people who have had abortions are wrong, whatever your stance is. It is no one’s place. When you think about the societal issues present in abortion rights, you get down to some really sullied roots that no one wants to talk about which is what makes it so taboo to this day.

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[JoB]

New resident..

let’s see.. statistics?

dave siad 30% of women get abortions as a primary means of birth control

the next study quoted said 40 something percent

then you say most…

most???

if 30% of women use abortion as birth control.. that means 70% don’t.

if .. lets say 45% use abortion as birth control that means 55% don’t.

it’s basic math even before you look at the studies to find out what questions they asked to arrive at what looks like pretty inflated figures to me.

if that’s the kind of fuzzy math your judgments are based on it’s no wonder you come up with such negative judgments about other women…

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[beachdrivegirl]

I dont feel bad for what I have posted. I have had an abortion myself and I regret it. I regretted even more after my sister struggled to get pregnant within a year of it. So we have two people on here. With very different views on how abortions should be regulated.

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[JenV]

BDG- thank you for speaking up- that took courage.

It seems the only logical conclusion is the only person who should be making decisions about abortion are the people who are actually going through it.

Peace.

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[Cait]

The same respect to you, BDG. I can see where that would definitely affect your stance. However, I find it fascinating that no matter what your direct experience, the stances vary so much… I think that speaks loudly in itself.

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[JoB]

It is a mistake to think that pro choice people don’t realize that a fetus is a potential child.

The person who realizes it most of all is the woman who has to make the decision whether she can responsibly raise the child she is carrying if it carries to full term.

JenV said she didn’t regret her decision, but i am betting she didn’t make it lightly either.

I feel great sorrow for those women who abort without thinking it through and then later regret it. But i feel equal sorrow for those women who don’t feel regret but nevertheless feel their own personal loss.

I made my choices, but i paid heavily for them when i had my child and gave him up. Imagine believing you would never see your child. Imagine the sorrow each birthday brings.

then imagine that child finds you and all goes well and still every birthday you get a thank you call for not killing them.

thank you for not being a butcher.

Not thank you for caring enough to give me the best start in life that you could.

last year i explained to my son how hurtful his thank you was in a way he must have understood.. because he didn’t call to thank me this year.

I did what i could for him. but, it didn’t turn out nearly as well for him as i had hoped… and i nearly took my own life over the sorrow long before i had any opportunity to meet him.

And i am a success story.

Each woman’s experience faced with an unintended pregnancy is unique… which is why the decision has to be their own.

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

That’s right. Adoption is not a “win-win.” There’s a lot of loss, unfair power dynamics, a lot of isms, and a lot of judgment involved. It is a painful, difficult process. And it is the birth parent and the child that deals with the loss.

Imagine that compounded in transracial adoption.

And it is the wonderful–rare–adoptive parent that encourages the connection between the child and his/her birth family…because a child can never have too much family.

And again…like JoB said: each woman’s experience faced with an unintended pregnancy is unique… which is why the decision has to be their own.

And I ask you to take a minute to think about the kids who don’t have homes, or are throw-aways (a hell of a lot of them in Seattle), or who are in independant living programs because they can parent themselves better than the adults in their lives.

Do something about THAT, instead of protesting at Planned Parenthood, and compounding an already sorrowful and difficult decision.

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[beachdrivegirl]

i dont think anyonne here was talking about protesting planned parenthood here. but thanks job, jenv, and cait

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[soclwrkrinmotn]

Very well. Perhaps not in this thread, but it was mentioned, and I still remain of the opinion that more needs to be done for the children here on this planet than talking about “saving unborn children.” Are they less valuable born?

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