redback: I have no problem differentiating myself from progressive liberals because I despise the ideas of communism. I am much more closely aligned with classical liberalism which is quite the opposite spectrum by todays standards.
Progressives want to protect existing industry with high regulatory barriers that effectively keep competitors out. They want close “partnerships” between government and big business. Wherever you have progressive politics, you have dominant large-scale corporations that own entire market sectors.
I am opposed to TPP for different reasons than socialist-loving Bernie progressives. It’s not just about rallying union workers to march against corporations. Rather its about supporting all people in the US who compete to produce things on a level playing field–business owners, investors and employees alike.
I believe in free trade only with countries of equivalent human rights and moral values. Balanced trade agreements are more appropriate today because it generally forces other countries to improve their own societies at their own expense rather than consolidating wealth to buy up assets in ours. Trump will likely employ the mechanisms of balanced trade in situations where abusive countries have unfair advantages:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/09/free_trade_vs_balanced_trade.html
I am not sure which “cronies” you are referring to, but it seems to me that Trump is brining in the right experts to restart the competitive free enterprise system. Trump himself admits to participating in crony politics because that was the only path to business success in recent decades due to corrupt politicians. It would not be difficult from his position to see the demise of America and be compelled to do something about it. I hope he and his team are able to fulfill his campaign promises to curtail crony lobbying and instill ethics reform in DC. We shall soon see. I think the DOJ and FBI are going to be very busy when they are free to enforce existing law.
If you distrust left-leaning mainstream media while discrediting news from sources on the right, then are you channeling Paul Harvey or something to get your news? If so, you are perhaps missing one of the greatest triumphs of Western civilization.
By the way, I just watched a great movie on Amazon called “The Enemies Within”. I am sure many of you lefties will dismiss it as “right wing propaganda”. However, this is why Hillary lost. The movie answers a lot of questions and is full of facts that can easily be verified.
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I love that we’re not between two freeways as most of the rest of the Greater Seattle region is. Everywhere else I’ve lived in Seattle felt too busy and you were always between major freeways and everybody was trying to get to them and get somewhere. Once you are here, you’re here. For the most part, nobody is rushing through our neighborhoods just trying to get somewhere else.
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Wow.. I love this.
Jan.S and RedBlack you guys just nailed it. Just because Trump is making OBama look like an uncaring, anti-business fool you guys never back down. Now that’s dedication !
But, I have been listening to what you guys have been saying and now that I have educated myself by reading all that wisdom you guys are laying down on everyone on the WS Blog here. I am thinking that I agree with you guys. Can you believe it ?
Yup, I think that Trump was DEAD WRONG about Messing around with that Free Market like he has. Most of the time I feel really bad arguing against Champions of the Free market like ( redblack, Jan S. JoB, etc..) and challenging their continuous and never ending defense of the Free Market but this time I have to agree.
I honestly think you guys are correct and that Trump should have done exactly the same thing that OBama did about keeping those Carrier Jobs in the Country and saving those employee’s livelihood and their families futures . NOTHING !
Yup, Trump reiterating what Obama told Carrier Inc. ” Go ahead and move then.. You’ll be Sorry ” That would have taught Carrier and other companies that want to leave the U.S to escape all those crazy Taxes and regulations in search of Profits.
I think it was shameful for Trump to create and incentive for ANY Evil profit Worshipping Corporation to stay in the US and continue to support US workers and their families simply to make a Profit. Disgusting !
I felt ( redblacks ) emotion when he passionately fought against and criticized Obama for loaning Billions of Dollars to a profit oriented Corporation GM after they lost billions of dollars due to poor management and waste. and and I remember being so moved by ( redblacks ) plea for “ NO MORE ! “
In fact, I get choked up even thinking about it now
Seriously, Who the HELL does Trump think he is taking time to save a pitiful amount of jobs that won’t make a Damn bit of difference in the grand scheme of things by providing tax relief and confidence to Carrier Inc. that he will work towards making the US a business friendly environment ? I doesn’t even make sense ? Trump should have used the Tough Love “ Go ahead and move to Mexico, See if we care “ technique that Obama continuously uses so well from the Golf course.
anonyme: it’s all good. i understand the urge to swing that proverbial bat.
but i knew it was a pipe dream to expect tuesday or any other “conservative” to stay on topic and try to defend trump’s big-government interference in free markets.
People who continue to think that this election was anything about gender are simply out of touch with reality. If you swapped bodies between the two candidates (Hillary having Trump’s background and platform, and Trump having hers), Hillary would have won by an enormous landslide. America loves an underdog. But, Hillary was the center of the crony establishment during a time when most were sick and tired of it. Hillary lost because she was a bad candidate with a bad history and a bad platform. No woman should consider Hillary’s failure to be anything more than what it was–a colossal screw up by the DNC. If she was not a woman, she probably would have not even achieved thirty percent of the vote.
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This topic was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by itnw.
If I had more than two thumbs they would all be up, for sure. And..even on this little forum, we have been told that we are that dreaded “woman thing”…too emotional.. We have been talked down to, called names, and been gloated over. We have been told to buck up, get over it, and “we need to work together now”, by ….well….you know who by – there are plenty of them out there.
Fat chance !
ahh, but..only part of the work force will stay in the US…half will still move, I understand. And..Carrier gets a big fat financial “gimme”…from the taxpayers…so what is so wonderful about the deal? Am I seeing this all wrong?
Hi everyone:
So I’m posting because we decided to sponsor a family this year for the holidays. In previous years, I have found that finding a family to sponsor is difficult because people sign up quickly (or maybe I sign up too late!….totally possible…). In any event, in emailing the YMCA (at this late date) to inquire about a sponsoring a family in the Seattle area that cannot otherwise afford a Christmas/Hannukah/other for their family, I learned that there are over 100 families that do not have a sponsor for the holidays.
So, I wanted to post this to spread the word that, well,
there are ONE HUNDRED families in the Seattle area who need some help to have a meaningful holiday for their families.
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For me, it was as simple as emailing a coordinator and asking if they had a family to sponsor. I emailed yesterday and was matched with a family this morning.
Have used Bartell’s Admiral for over a decade, monthly, and it has been perfect.
Apologies, rb. I have a lot of respect for your well-reasoned and straightforward observations, and did not mean to derail your discussion. Sometimes the temptation is just overwhelming.
JoB: Here are two good pro/con articles about the Carrier deal:
https://mises.org/blog/defense-trump’s-deal-carrier
vs.
https://mises.org/blog/countless-ordinary-americans-benefit-when-companies-move-mexico
I believe the ultimate goal of the Trump administration is to restore trade balance rather than to restrict free trade. The problem we currently have is that one-way free trade simply allows corporations to profit from ultra-cheap labor and little environmental concern. While people in some countries generally have enjoyed an increase in their respective standards of living due to American consumerism, many compromising tradeoffs were made (like more crime, slavery, wealth disparity and pollution). Our current situation, thanks to Clinton-Bush-Obama, essentially allows extreme “plutocracies” to be built in other countries.
While corporations have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profit for share holders, the US government is obligated to act in accordance to our constitutional values. A strong US economy is powerful leverage that can be used to encourage other countries to raise the bar for individual rights, prosperity and environmental stewardship. While you probably believe this is counter intuitive to the dogmas of socialism, I think capitalist carrot always works better than the stick of tyranny.
I consciously buy US products when I can because I can be more assured that they were not produced with slave labor or excessive environmental damage. With proper trade arrangements, I can hopefully someday look forward to the same assurances when I buy goods from other countries.
redback: I don’t get it. If those are the things you want, why didn’t you vote for Trump? Don’t tell me you got all your information from MSN/CNN pundits rather than from the horses mouth. Well, did you think for a minute that the big network advertisers were going to give up on their lobbyists, crony-monopolies and cheap foreign labor without telling you a few lies? Now they are trying to tell you that everything opposing them is “fake news”. Imagine that! It’s time to wake up and discover reality. Do your research beyond the approved liberal news sources.
dave: what gives you the idea that we find free markets deplorable? what i find deplorable is the anarchy that allows industries and banks to write their own economic policies that benefit them and that harm workers. i find the revolving door from congress to lobbyists deplorable.
and that appears to be exactly what you’re cheerleading.
you can see (i hope) that while moving industrial jobs to low-wage third world countries saves american consumers money at the cash register, it devastates american jobs and wages.
we don’t want socialism or communism as economic models. we don’t want authoritarian government. and we sure as hell don’t want corporate rule. we want regulation that protects our jobs and wages, causes the tide to rise, and lifts all boats.
you keep calling that marxism or whatever because you seem to need an enemy to blame for our nation’s troubles. it’s a lot easier and more gratifying to yell at your neighbors than jamie diamond or alan greenspan or barack obama, isn’t it?
despite my repeated attempts to talk reason with you, i don’t think you’ll ever believe that i’m as much of a capitalist as you are. you’ll just have to take my word for it that i’m not your enemy, and i don’t wear rose-colored glasses.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by redblack.
tuesday: there’s no need for us to knock down your straw man. again. it falls over on its own.
I love that we live in a place where we can have a 7’4″ drag queen lighting our Christmas tree and nobody gives a rip or even thinks it is worthy of a comment. I could be wrong but somehow I just don’t think that would fly in a city considered “red.”
I love that i could do an informal holiday lights tour within a 5 block radius of where i live that included lights in the tops of trees on what looked to be 3 separate private homes.. and i live on the “wrong” side of 35th ;-)
i can see a lot of after sunset detours in my future….
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Damn ” anonyme ”
Here comes that ” Truth ” thing again. Ouch !
You mention Republican’s getting US into a War. Did you omit the word “another” ?
Because after pondering and checking those Horribly Nasty and Unfair ” Facts ” concerning ALL those war’s that those Blood Thirsty Republican’s keep getting us into i run into a problem with the Math. maybe your Liberal math can help me out a little bit…?
Just checking on the last 100 years or so and while being kind enough to skip the Civil War I found these Numbers.
– WW1 : President Woodrow Wilson – ( Democrat ) 53,000 US Combat Deaths
– WW2 : President Franklin Delano Roosevelt – ( Democrat ) 200,00 US Combat Deaths
and many accuse President Roosevelt of knowing about Pearl Harbor and
allowing that Attack to happen JUST so we could get into the War ?
Oop’s .. That doesn’t sound Good ! Is it True ?
– Korea : President Harry S. Truman – ( Democrat ) 33,000 US Combat Casualties
The Korean War which was Started by a Democrat ( Of course ) took a Republican President ( Dwight D. Eisenhower ) to urge the Peace Talks and END THE WAR. Oop’s again huh ?
– Vietnam : ” COMBO ” President Kennedy ( Democrat ) sent in the advisors and got it Roll’n
a little bit but it took another popular and Wise ( Democratic President ) President Lyndon Johnson to really get all that Kill’in goin . A very popular war for Liberals. You guys Loved the Hell out of that Vietnam War thing. That’s where you guys learned how to Burn cars so effectively and spit on Soldiers.. Remember ? If not I can send you the Video ?
Hmmm.. So where are we now. ?
Oh.. I hope we aren’t going to bring up that Blood Bath known as the Grenada War so we will skip right over that and go right to:
– Desert Storm : President George H.W. Bush ( Republican ) 159 Combat Deaths
Is that the War you mean ? Where the entire World back us and we were surrounded by 60 or so Countries that went in with us ?
I’m still not following you ” anonyme ” So you must be talking about ( 2001 ) and
– Afghanistan War : President George W. Bush ( Republican ) 1954+ Combat Deaths
This is the War that OBama said was the ” War we should be concentrating on, Not Iraq ” Of course the same War that Ed Schultz from MSNBC called the ” Just War ” and of course that ALL the democrats voted for. You couldn’t be talking about that one
So, you must be talking about The Iraq War ( 2003 )
– Iraq War President George W. Bush ( Republican ) 3.800+ Combat Deaths
This must be the ” War ‘ your talking about. Mistake ? Maybe but there are a few issues such as the FACT that most Democrats voted for the War. For Example Presidential Nominee John Kerry :
John Kerry ( 2004 ) said: “I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the president made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him.”
Yes, That John Kerry along with almost all other Democrats voted for the Iraq War. Including Hillary ” I am for sale ” Clinton.
But, OBama Campaigned on ” Getting us out of These Wars ” of course including the ” Just ” Afghanistan War as one of the Bush Wars. Pretending that Afghanistan was not called and referred to as a Just War.
The only problem is that OBama took all of our troops out immediately and very irresponsibly which left a vacuum and in stepped ISIS. ( The ” JV Team “..btw )and now
OBama lied and went back on his word and put boots back on the ground and as of today the US has 5,000 Troops in what now can be called ” Obama’s Iraq War “.
I know this Truth thing SUCKS and is very inconvenient but Please ” Anonyme ” explain what Republican Wars are you talking about because when I add up all the US Combat Deaths over the past 100 years the Democrats are winning the score by about 500,000 to very little.
After you take your Liberal goggles off and realize you have No where to go on this argument you can –>> ( Insert personal
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