VIDEO: West Seattle light-rail plan has evolved into something ‘not what you voted for,’ contend panelists at Rethink the Link forum

(WSB photos by Dave Gershgorn, unless otherwise credited)

By Tracy Record
West Seattle Blog editor

In the waning moments of today’s two-hour Rethink the Link-presented forum on the West Seattle light-rail project, a ghost from a quarter-century ago appeared: The long-ago, voter-approved-then-scuttled plan for monorail service to West Seattle and elsewhere.

This spectre was raised by the father of the monorail himself, Dick Falkenbury. He wasn’t on the panel, nor had anyone brought up the monorail until an attendee asked about the original Seattle Initiative 41.

(WSB photo by Tracy Record)

Falkenbury rose shortly thereafter to warn everyone in the room that “Sound Transit is punking you” and shortly thereafter to declare that he was there to “hijack the meeting,” eventually offering to decamp to a nearby coffee shop and talk with anyone interested.

Also in the late going, a Lake Forest Park activist told the room that “fighting Sound Transit is like fighting a gigantic Pillsbury Doughboy” and suggested they’d need up to $100,000 if they wanted to pursue legal action against the transit agency, something he said his LFP neighbors were mulling.

The prospect of West Seattle legal action was hinted at by one of today’s panelists, longtime Sound Transit critic John Niles of Smarter Transit, explaining to attendees that there was still time to comment on the West Seattle Link Extension plan while the federal environmental record is still open, and that they “might be setting up for some public interest legal types to do something if this keeps going the way it’s going.”

(L-R, panelists Conrad Cipoletti, Marty Westerman, Martin Pagel, John Niles)

Before Niles and other panelists sat down in the Center for Active Living‘s second-floor event hall to recount their long-voiced concerns, the event started with time to circulate among displays placed around the room, including maps of the routing options the Sound Transit Board approved in October, and lists such as properties that would be affected.

The ~40+ attendees also were invited to write questions for the panel to answer.

RTL’s Alan McMurray introduced the panelists; along with Niles, they were Conrad Cipoletti, described as a “car-free community advocate,” who moderated; Marty Westerman, whose related community involvement has included the West Seattle Transportation Coalition and greenspace advocacy; and Martin Pagel, who along with Westerman has advocated in the past for a gondola system instead of West Seattle light rail, though that option did not arise as a discussion topic today. Here’s our video of the discussion (up until the last ~10 minutes of Q&A, lost to a recording glitch):

Many of the points panelists addressed are contentions that Rethink the Link has made before, repeatedly. Their overarching argument is that West Seattle would be better served, at a far lower cost, by increasing bus service. Observed Niles, “It would be amazing what Metro could do with an extra billion dollars.”

Last year, you might recall, ST revised its high-end potential West Seattle cost estimate to $7 billion. That was another theme today, the higher price tag and lower ridership estimate than what was discussed before voters approved ST3 in 2016, the ballot measure that included a plan for extending light rail to West Seattle. The current plan “is not what you voted for,” Westerman declared. Pagel said he’s not against spending money on light rail but considers the current plan too much money to serve too few riders. “Is West Seattle the right place to do that? … Is it worth it for 5,400 riders [a day]? We have other Seattle projects in the wings. … Management focusing on West Seattle is a huge distraction from what they should be focusing on.”

The panelists spent a fair amount of time on environmental issues as well. RTL contends that Sound Transit is dismissing the “construction carbon” that will be generated by building West Seattle light rail, focusing only on eventual carbon savings by people riding light rail instead of driving gas-burning vehicles. Carbon is carbon, they said, whether it’s “construction or operational.” Not to mention, Niles – who identified himself as an EV owner/driver – said even the federal administration change won’t stop transportation electrification, and that should factor more into the stats than it did originally. “Anything approved in 2016 is way out of date; the world has changed,” What’s the ST plan for mitigating effects to Longfellow Creek?

Westerman said there didn’t seem to be “much of one.” Some questions like that might have been ideally posed to Sound Transit reps, but none were there (RTL said they had “notified” the agency of their event). Meantime, they also noted that it seems counterproductive to be carving into the greenbelt along Pigeon Point while trying to increase tree canopy in the nearby Duwamish Valley. What will be done with the cut trees? That too was a question perhaps ST could have answered.

Though the ST Board has taken its vote on routing and station locations, the panelists stressed that there’s still an opportunity for public comment until the federal Record of Decision is finalized – something that originally was expected before year’s end, but now is projected for next month. “A lot of your money is being spent on this,” Niles exhorted in explaining why people should comment.

One attendee wondered if a ballot measure would be appropriate. Someone piped up from elsewhere in the room to say that Sound Transit isn’t subject to initiatives. “We need to be more aggressive – we can’t be waiting for February,” asserted another attendee. Yet another said, “We need someone like [public-interest superlawyer] Erin Brockovich.”

Niles suggested that people would do best to talk with elected officials, especially state legislators, because ST is a state creation. He also suggested they take note of who’s on the board (Seattle city reps are Mayor Bruce Harrell and Councilmember Dan Strauss) and who’s running to succeed Dow Constantine (who remains on the board through year’s end) as County Executive (two of the candidates, County Councilmembers Claudia Balducci and Girmay Zahilay, are already on the board).

154 Replies to "VIDEO: West Seattle light-rail plan has evolved into something 'not what you voted for,' contend panelists at Rethink the Link forum"

  • Neighbor January 25, 2025 (11:11 pm)

    Just stop.  Stop hurting us.  Rethink the link are the ones making this project take so long and cost so much.  Just get out of the damn way.

    • Alki resident January 26, 2025 (4:07 pm)

      You have to be kidding. You would blame the cost on a group trying to avoid high cost. Are you even aware that this billion dollar train only takes you to SODO and then you have to transfer elsewhere? West Seattle will lose at least 100 businesses and majorly disrupt traffic? The guy who stood up and said “ Sound Transit is punking you”, couldn’t be more right. 

      • Walkerws January 26, 2025 (4:47 pm)

        The train will “only” take you to a major hub where you can transfer to a huge network of locations. Transfers are normal in any rail system in the world. Stop citing this as an issue because it’s disingenuous and you know it 

        • Josh January 26, 2025 (7:27 pm)

          Completely agree

        • Alki resident January 26, 2025 (8:20 pm)

          Great verbiage, you literally are paying over 7 billion dollars to go to SODO. That kind of money can be used for so many other things. At this point, it’s criminal to keep wasting our money because ST wants this so badly for them. Wake up

          • Pelicans January 27, 2025 (2:31 am)

            Totally agree.

          • Burgerman January 27, 2025 (1:27 pm)

            Oh, Alki resident. Such classic Conservatism from you as always. Spin up a fear and outrage based narrative, and make sure to leave out a huge fact that completely changes the end result. The Ballard line will eventually link up with the West Seattle line. The benefits from this are significant and it has been needed for decades. It won’t be done tomorrow, but it will be done eventually. Just because YOU don’t like it today doesn’t mean it’s not needed for the people who are going to be here long after you’re gone. Knock it off.

          • Matt January 27, 2025 (1:50 pm)

            No kidding. They could run all day minibuses around WS to Sodo or Beacon Hill for almost nothing. 7 billion to get to the worst station on the Link, totally insane. We should all be furious that we are even talking about such a project. I take Link from BH every day. It’s literally a 6 minute drive and short walk from North Del. Busses could easily do this route all friggin day, and drop off right at either station. I serious do not think people understand how close SODO and BH stations are. Yes, they are currently a pain to get to but that’s because we don’t have direct all day service to them. So friggin simple it’s ridiculous. 

      • Himbo January 26, 2025 (8:22 pm)

        “Fauntleroy Ave is useless, it just takes you 35th and then you have to transfer to the bridge. USELESS!”

    • PDiddy January 26, 2025 (6:42 pm)

      They are right the ST link is a huge waste of money with a terrible environmental impact where they plan to build regardless of route. That money would be better served with improving bus service.

  • Seniors January 25, 2025 (11:46 pm)

    I and all those seniors won’t be alive to see the light rail in WS or will even be built….so keep on talking…and talking

  • Sixbuck January 26, 2025 (12:26 am)

    I never voted for this in ANY form so I guess I am ‘ahead of the curve’. I am also debating not renewing my vehicle tabs as over 72% of the price of registration goes towards the Sound Transit boondoggle. 

    • Jim January 26, 2025 (7:05 am)

      I feel you there but they’re definitely cracking down on it more. I got a ticket for $45 with the threat that they can impound your car for more than 90 days expired when my car was parked up at a local park on a rainy day I couldn’t even believe parking enforcement was out.

      • ltm mgm January 26, 2025 (3:24 pm)

        Yes I’m happy to hear they are finally cracking down on the expired tabs! As I’ve commented before all during the pandemic we never slacked once on our license tabs and or anything else people were given a “pardon” on. And where or how do you think the State is going to get that money for the loss of RTA tax from the non-payer tabs? 

    • bill January 26, 2025 (9:24 am)

      The RTA tax goes to the entire Sound Transit system, not just the West Seattle extension. Ride the standing-room-only train through downtown and then consider whether you would prefer all those people on the road increasing traffic jams. Or an additional 3000 cars perhaps on the high bridge every day. And not renewing your tabs is a middle finger to your neighbors who aren’t freeloaders. I will report your expired tabs in a New York minute.

      • Canton January 27, 2025 (5:57 am)

        Actually, the state gave us the middle finger, when we voted for lower car tabs and they just ignored the will of the people….

        • walkerws January 27, 2025 (8:35 am)

          It was an unconstitutional ballot measure. They weren’t giving voters the middle finger unless you hate our state constitution.

    • My two cents January 26, 2025 (10:41 am)

      Wow, how can I decide on what taxes/fees I want or don’t want to pay?BTW – financial projections assume people are going to pay the taxes/fees, so in essence you are helping the funding gaps. That is a good move, trumps all others.

    • Car driver January 26, 2025 (1:25 pm)

      People don’t realize what’s going to happen after they achieve their car free Utopia. Without revenue from car tabs and gas taxes transit cost will increase significantly. Density will increase as well. So before you were stuck sitting in your car, now you will be cramped standing in your train/bus

  • Pinto January 26, 2025 (12:32 am)

    Judging by the photos it looks like privileged white men who have never had to rely on public transportation. Try taking the bus for every single thing you need for a month and then tell us light rail is not needed.

    • Mary January 26, 2025 (7:06 am)

      That’s a really backwards way of thinking on your part

      • Pinto January 26, 2025 (7:38 pm)

        From WikipediaBelief in reverse racism is widespread in the United States; however, there is little to no empirical evidence that white Americans are disadvantaged as a group.[7] Racial and ethnic minorities generally lack the ability to damage the interests of whites, who remain the dominant group in the U.S.[8][9] Claims of reverse racism tend to ignore such disparities in the exercise of power,[1][10][11] which most sociologists and psychologists include in their definition of racism.[1][8]

        • Jeff January 26, 2025 (8:45 pm)

          Just keep promoting racism

        • Pelicans January 27, 2025 (2:45 am)

          Like the all caps font so abhorred by all,  you get around its shouting perception by using bold faced type.  You come across as shrill and shouting anyway.  How many are you really reaching by using this hackneyed tactic? You alienate more.  Your message is lost. 

    • Gibby January 26, 2025 (8:30 am)

      Why did I think the same thing when I saw the photo?

      Bring the light rail here. 100 years from now when we’re all dead I’m sure ridership will be a lot more. 

    • Martin Josef Pagel January 26, 2025 (8:56 am)

      I don’t think anybody suggested to shut down light rail, 100,000 riders a day rely on it, but is a short line from the Junction to SODO going to help riders in West Seattle? Sound Transit estimates only 5,400 riders will do. If we use some of the 7 billion dollars to run better bus services across the peninsula, I bet it would improve ridership far more. Some of those buses could still drop you off at SODO light rail station (just add an off-ramp to the busway) to get you to Rainier Valley and the airport or downtown or…

      • MacJ January 26, 2025 (9:22 am)

        The ridership estimate in the FEIS is 25-27k, not 5k.

        • Martin January 26, 2025 (11:24 am)

          If you read the fine print, then it says that a ridership of 25-27,000 is not expected until the line is connected towards downtown with the Ballard/SLU project. Now that cost has quadrupled, it will push out the timeline for such connection. In the meantime, most riders will endure multiple transfers and therefore Sound Transit only expects 5400 riders. Sound Transit does not explain that in any of their official glossy materials. They only provided this estimate to the FTA. I found this number via a public records request. 

          • bill January 26, 2025 (1:14 pm)

            Heavens, multiple transfers! Just like riding the bus!

      • Lagartija Nick January 26, 2025 (9:35 am)

        @Martin Pagel. The end terminus at SODO is temporary – AND YOU KNOW IT! Stop gaslighting people into believing it’s permanent. Furthermore, Sound Transit money can NOT be used to expand Metro service so no, we can’t just “use some of that 7 billion” to do so. You know that too. Stop gaslighting people into believing that’s possible! 

        • Martin January 26, 2025 (11:37 am)

          People who attended the event understand the full picture.Sound Transit is misleading the public by only talking about cost and ridership once the line is connected downtown. For now, the line will only connect to SODO for $7 billion. The connection from SODO through downtown to Ballard may cost another 15 -30 billion dollars. Sound Transit has not provided a plan to finance such downtown connection. As their income and debt capability is limited, the cost escalation for the West Seattle extension will automatically delay other projects. (as they already announced during the realignment)

        • Alki resident January 26, 2025 (4:13 pm)

          He didn’t gaslight, he literally explained exactly what’s happening. A bus transfer is much more effective and efficient. There’s no telling when they’d be able to build and finish the connecting parts. Facts are facts..At the end of the day, it’ll be way more than 7 billion bucks. It’s ST that’s gaslighting you. 

      • Lagartija Nick January 26, 2025 (9:47 am)

        Also, to expand Metro enough to match the efficiency of light rail would require true Rapid Ride service. Meaning that all of those busses would need dedicated lanes separated from traffic to even come close. Are you prepared to close Delridge, 35th, and/or Fauntleroy to cars to achieve that? Or maybe we could demolish a bunch of buildings to add dedicated bus lanes. I wonder how much money would be needed to accomplish either of those.

        • Matt January 27, 2025 (2:03 pm)

          Dude, we only need smaller buses running more often, direct from WS sites to Beacon Hill, which has basically it’s own lane on the bridge as the middle lane direct to BH does not back up like the I5 ramps do. Additional small buses to Sodo are all that is needed. We need to start thinking about flexible bus routes, not barely functioning light rail to an out of the way zone that nobody will use for a price that it totally outrageous for the demand. Smaller, quicker buses that don’t require any new infrastructure is the way forward. ST is just too stupid to see it. Or it’s just a grift.

          • Bbron January 27, 2025 (11:19 pm)

            I take it you don’t ride the bus. Nobody that comes up with the “buses are flexible to route” idea is a seriously rider. what that idea entails is the promotion of bus stops which are incredibly underserving: lack of seating, shelter, ground to meet the bus. because it is inflexible to create bus stations that serve vulnerable populations. the idea of “popup” or “easily moved” bus stops is a panacea for those that want to continue the car centric status quo.

    • Pelicans January 26, 2025 (11:56 am)

      Pinto, racist comments like yours should be moderated. Unfortunately, probably not.

      • Pinto January 26, 2025 (6:57 pm)

        Well as a white man I acknowledge my own privilege even though I’m not very well off and I strive for empathy and compassion for everybody. This group makes it very hard to do that because I do not see a benefit to them. Other than keeping West Seattle inaccessible. Progress costs money

    • Lauren January 26, 2025 (1:00 pm)

      That was my first thought on the photos too…

    • North Admiral January 26, 2025 (1:46 pm)

      Please take your racism somewhere else 

      • Mr J January 26, 2025 (6:12 pm)

        You literally cannot be racist to white people. Saying this is not only ignorant but also demonstrates a lack of understanding on what ACTUAL racism is.

    • Alki resident January 26, 2025 (3:57 pm)

      You’ve had every opportunity to go to meetings so stop with your racist comments. What makes you think they’ve never used public transportation to get to and from? Is it because you think they’re rich white men driving Porsche’s? 

    • PoppyD January 26, 2025 (5:02 pm)

      As a white man of 63, I LOVE this comment. My sentiment exactly. Light rail is not for me or the other folks of my age. It is for future generations and we are already way too far behind.BUILD THE DAMN THING.I happily will pay the added taxes as long as I remain on this plane.

    • Or January 26, 2025 (7:34 pm)

      Wow. Thats straight up racist

  • Let's get to Light Rail January 26, 2025 (12:41 am)

    Wowza. NIMBY is alive and well. Light Rail would be amazing for West Seattle.. I only wish it could come sooner.

    • Youpayforit January 26, 2025 (8:46 pm)

      Then you pay for it!

  • Mark January 26, 2025 (1:27 am)

    John Niles … LOL. That’s certainly a ghost from the past whose name I thought I would never hear again. He is an anti-transit crank who was against ST1, ST2 and ST3, who never saw a transit project that he wouldn’t oppose. If it were up to him, we wouldn’t have a single mile of rail transit in the region.  Thankfully, it’s not up to him. We, including West Seattle, voted for ST3 so that we can finally be connected with the rest of the spine for true car-free mobility in the region when choose so. 

    • Jon January 26, 2025 (7:07 am)

      God forbid we should have some spending accountability. The first levy passed when I was in a young child now here I am well into my thirties and it’s not supposed to be done for another decade at least

    • Liz January 26, 2025 (9:23 am)

      I thought I recognized Niles.  In my career I covered transportation issues for a major corporation in this region and you are right… he was against all ST previous proposals as well as many other transit projects.

    • lalo cameron January 26, 2025 (9:33 am)

      Total complete Joke – Huge waste of taxpayer dollars

  • Jon January 26, 2025 (5:26 am)

    Ya no kidding! Defund sound Transit 

  • CarDriver January 26, 2025 (6:22 am)

     Light rail will be built. The final cost will be MUCH higher than originally promised.  It will not make the city a utopia. It will simply make it a much more expensive place to live.

    • MacJ January 26, 2025 (9:20 am)

      You mean the auto transportation system. The asphalt and auto industry promised easy transport, plenty of parking, no traffic. That’s never been delivered anywhere, and the costs have always gone up while the results get worse and worse.

  • Meeee January 26, 2025 (6:58 am)

    Can’t take anyone seriously who was involved in the gondola idea.                                                                                                                                                                                                                    This meeting screams privilege from so many angles I lost count.                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Continue tilting at windmills fellas!

  • SeaWest January 26, 2025 (7:00 am)

    Seattle, specifically West Seattle, really does have a suburban mentality when it comes to mass transit. In the 1970s the federal government offered to finance up to 75% for a subway linking West Seattle to SeaTac, north gate and Ballard, not surprising Seattle voters rejected the offer. Today you can visit what could’ve been….in Atlanta. The future is now Seattle, we pride ourselves on being progressive and talk a lot about being green, so let’s get it done. 

    • Derek January 26, 2025 (9:41 am)

      Exactly. The problem ignored here is we VOTED FOR IT. So we need it to happen and it should happen. Otherwise why did we vote? I’m so tired of money going to highways. Bring on the trains! 

  • VN January 26, 2025 (7:24 am)

    Talk about privileged residents? The light rail link in West Seattle will only service those who live in a small section of WS and with some of the highest priced housing.  Consider that there are thousands of people who have NO bus service today in WS and thousands more that only have marginalized service.  These people will not be able to use the link extension and will be forced to drive their vehicles to get around.  There is no plan to change this situation from Metro today nor decades into the future. Expanding our bus service to the entire peninsula could actually get people out of their cars, provide public transportation to our underserved communities and at a fraction of the cost of a light rail link.  This would also save the existing housing, small businesses and dramatically reduce the severe environmental impacts to our community.   

    • DC January 26, 2025 (9:20 am)

      I’ll take you up on this expand bus services instead of light rail if and only if we solve the main problem of busses – they get stuck in traffic like all other vehicles. Lets make BUS ONLY lanes on every single road a bus drives on. Yes, that means any street a bus rides on that is only one lane will no longer allow cars. That also means you will no longer be able to use SR99 North off-ramp from the WSBridge as that’s one of main backups for busses as is. Deal?

      • Martin January 26, 2025 (11:43 am)

        We already have a bus lane on the West Seattle bridge and a dedicated busway through SODO. Yes, we need to add an offramp to connect the two and turn a few other lanes red. see:West Seattle by Bus instead of Light Rail – Seattle Transit Blog

      • Junction Resident January 26, 2025 (12:46 pm)

        I agree with you DC.  As someone who rode the bus every day to work downtown from the junction before the pandemic and still rides the bus frequently, I can tell you that many people drive cars in the bus lane, further slowing down the bus.  I think we should have cameras in the bus lanes so that anyone driving in them gets a ticket.  I don’t think anyone saying that we should just swap the light rail for busses has ever actually taken the bus.  It’s just not as efficient, because one way or another cars get in the way of the busses and slow them down.  That can’t happen with light rail.

        • bill January 26, 2025 (1:17 pm)

          The ticketing cameras should be on the busses! There is a camera on the high bridge bus lane but if you hop out of the lane before the enforcement zone you’re home free.

  • Burgerman January 26, 2025 (7:47 am)

    Does anyone else notice that this is mainly old white men with money, trying to stop progress while pretending to be “progressive?” Classic NIMBYs. Classic Seattle. Our institutional and generational memory is apparently very short. We had the opportunity to get light rail in the 70s, and the NIMBYs voted it down, trying to protect their precious sleepy city from expansion. What’s going on here, once again, is a bunch of grumpy people don’t want to see their pretty, protected, wealth-producing and magnifying ancient enclave “soiled” by construction that necessarily happens in a growing urban area. They have no interest in setting up the future generations for actual progress, instead focusing on short-sighted, immediate, foot-stompy wants. There is a price for progress and growth. It’s not always tasty to everyone involved. But it still needs to happen. West Seattle NEEDS light rail, and it NEEDS to progress and grow. You may be wealthy, and not like change, but you aren’t the only people who live here and you need to plan for more people to live here when you’re gone. Ever-increasing, infrastructure-destroying heavy buses on already limited and crumbling roads are not the answer.

    • M January 26, 2025 (10:29 am)

      Oh, I notice who is doing this. It’s very on brand.

    • My two cents January 26, 2025 (10:50 am)

      Am I going to be around when this is built out? Might need a walker at that point. Did I vote for the ST measures?  Yes, each every time. Did I grumble about the licensing fees? Sure  –  but I’m also upset that I can’t get $5.99 six packs of Manny’s. 🥸

    • B January 26, 2025 (4:03 pm)

      Is racism just fine on the wsb as long as it’s directed at white people?  The nimby references also indicate to me that this person has fallen for other  online rhetoric meant to divide Americans against one another. 

      • Mr J January 26, 2025 (6:16 pm)

        🎶You can’t be racist to white people, that’s not how racism works!🎶 

        • Adam January 26, 2025 (10:47 pm)

          Only if your definition of racism is itself racist. Otherwise, racism is racism.

          • Mr J January 27, 2025 (1:56 pm)

            You can choose to educate yourself on racism or not, but if you want to keep the white fragility thing going go for it.

          • Hump January 27, 2025 (7:16 pm)

            The ordinary definition of racism used by social scientists is that it is the confluence of racial prejudice with structural power. It’s a perfectly race neutral definition, and explains why accusations of “anti-white racism” are unserious. 

    • EL January 26, 2025 (6:01 pm)

      No … WS needs a fast way to get to downtown and Ballard.  It doesn’t have to cost 7 BILLION DOLLARS!  That’s insane.

  • Pete January 26, 2025 (7:53 am)

    Just as advertised……..more of the same old tired argument from the same folks. You could, for example, take the arguments for their gondola fantasy and simply change the narrative to their now rethink the link argument. This continuing argument to spend the transportation dollars on increased bus services misses the whole point of light rail. Buses must travel the same roadways as cars, bikes and pedestrians. Whereas light rail is grade separated and not subject to accidents and other traffic snarls that we are subjected to in getting off and on the peninsula. But at least it kept these folks off the streets for a couple oh hours on a Saturday morning. 

    • Justinian January 26, 2025 (9:19 am)

      Buses still have to fight the west Seattle bridge!  I take the h and it is always late.

  • Walkerws January 26, 2025 (8:08 am)

    After watching most of that cringey video, it is safe to reiterate that these are not serious people

  • Hick January 26, 2025 (8:15 am)

    Hurry up and build it. Cranks like these have held us back for long enough. Trains are about as well-proven a transit solution as anyone could ask for, they’re the gold standard around the world and in other parts of Seattle, and it’s ludicrous to pretend that West Seattle is somehow so unique they wouldn’t also work here.

  • Louise January 26, 2025 (8:18 am)

    Where can we see the detailed plans for the light rail proposal (e.g., specific rail path, businesses/homes subject to eminent domain)? Would love to see the visuals that were shared at this meeting.

    • WSB January 26, 2025 (8:25 pm)

      Rethink The Link now has a “gallery” of the visuals on their website. I have linked it above where the story refers to people going around the room and looking at them.

    • Ah January 27, 2025 (9:14 am)

      sw library has some of the books and pages, however this group had great information about which business will be affected.

  • GF January 26, 2025 (8:23 am)

    We all voted for ST3 to get light rail. Yes it is more expensive and later than we wanted but better late than never. Let’s not discuss this anymore. Let’s put our energy into building it. 

  • Admiral-2009 January 26, 2025 (8:43 am)

    Sixbucks – yes you can join the vehicle owners not paying their tabs, I estimate at 15 to 20%, and take the low risk that you will not get caught.  Personally, I feel that it’s past time for the City, County & State to significantly increase the risk of people not paying their tabs of getting cited and held accountable.  This is a simple fairness/equity issue!

    • Darren January 26, 2025 (1:34 pm)

      I’ve been advocating for this for more than a decade.

  • Sarah January 26, 2025 (8:51 am)

    So disappointed by this movement to ‘rethink the link’. As a younger member of the community I want to figure out how to voice my full support for the light rail in West Seattle so that I and the future generations in the Puget Sound can benefit from this. 

    • Jay January 27, 2025 (3:11 pm)

      Same. I’m so busy with my family and career and it’s heartbreaking how retirees are using their unlimited free time to attempt to steal our future. We go through the proper channels and vote, and our voices are dismissed in favor of contrarian events like this.

  • JustSarah January 26, 2025 (8:56 am)

    Conrad, as your neighbor I ask you to please reconsider your commitment to this cause. I think you’re younger than me. Our kids deserve robust public transit that can’t be crowded out by cars.

  • Ah January 26, 2025 (9:05 am)

    What they are trying to do is not what we voted for, and so much has changed since we voted for it, and it is so expensive to build and the construction carbon is not clearly publicized and we do not have the ridership to justify 7+ Billion dollars of construction costs .And we can do more with buses including get into downtown beyond sodo and re-navigate buses when the bridges go out. 7+ BILLION does not include operational costs. You were not there and so don’t make assumptions about who was there by photos shown. Also, if you are a bus rider why not ask for more buses within West Seattle as well as buses that go where you want to go. West Seattle is more than one junction and so WE NEED transit within west seattle and to get off the peninsula.  We do not need shiny VERY expensive stuff that has a huge environmental impact that does not move the people where they want to go.

    • Derek January 26, 2025 (10:01 am)

      7 billion isn’t so scary when you start seeing the prices it will be to repair/replace the ever cracking West Seattle bridge

    • Lagartija Nick January 26, 2025 (10:02 am)

      Ah, the old “don’t believe your eyes” argument. How very Orwellian. And the whole construction carbon trope reminds me of those folks who argue that building windmills is more carbon intensive than extracting fossil fuels.

    • My two cents January 26, 2025 (10:36 am)

      Bold font type “construction carbon” …. Seems that this is new “in” term the NIMBYs are using.  

  • Mickymse January 26, 2025 (9:14 am)

    While there are many reasons why simply “running more buses” is not a workable, long term solution… The question readers should ask themselves is why they would believe some of these people who say they support buses or transit and just dislike this particular project, when they have stood up to loudly oppose past opportunities to fund buses and expand transit. If you always yell “NO” to every solution others propose, I think we know where you really stand.

  • Derek January 26, 2025 (9:21 am)

    It’s exactly what I voted for and there’s cheaper ways to get it finally built (2B from fed, no tunnel, dropping the Avalon station). So I don’t care about price. Build it. 

  • Seattlite January 26, 2025 (9:39 am)

    Smoke and mirrors…you all know what that means.   America was built and designed for cars.  There is nothing wrong with a combination of gas-powered cars and EVs.  EVs will not dominate due to a lack of a strong, national power grid.  CA’s recent tragic wildfires left EV owners with no power for their EVs.  Sound Transit falls in line with all other Seattle transit planners who want billions of dollars but, believe this, there will be no transparency of where the dollars are being spent.  Bus transit needs to be emphasized along with all of the foundational elements…safety, convenience, modernization, etc.  Do not let Seattle get ensnared in another boondoggle that sucks up dollars with a less than mediocre outcome for citizens who need viable, dependable, safe transportation.

    • WSB January 26, 2025 (9:18 pm)

      In-city rail transport preceded cars here by decades.
      https://www.historylink.org/file/2707

      • JustSarah January 26, 2025 (9:48 pm)

        Thank you so much for catching this.

    • Platypus January 27, 2025 (1:19 pm)

      America, like all things, was and is built for people, we need to move a lot of people, and we should do it in the most efficient way possible. A single car takes up a lot of space, trains are significantly more space and time efficient. Its a math problem of moving people. Its teh same reason that airports use trains (people movers) to move large numbers of people around the airport and not individual cars.

    • Platypus January 27, 2025 (1:22 pm)

      Also, the US grid is incredible advanced, everywhere, and incredibly robust and gets more robust every day. This calling it a “lack of a strong, national grid” is insulting to the many engineers who make it one of the strongest in the world. The CA fire proved nothing about EVs. EVs have 200-400 miles of range, same as a gas car. Unless the entire state of CA caught on fire they got out just as easily as anyone else. We need to argue from facts and not emotion.

  • Alkistu January 26, 2025 (9:51 am)

    Although I appreciate citizen action to hold ST accountable it is all to common for people to not envision the future. What will the region look like in the next decades. Some of us will never see it but we should not for that reason disregard our handoff to younger generations. I use ST1 very often now and I can’t imagine an alternative for West Seattle that does not mesh seamlessly to the other segments.

    • Martin January 26, 2025 (11:54 am)

      If we spend 7 billion dollars for a stub from the Junction to SODO which 5400 riders are expected to use, it will delay the Ballard/SLU efforts which 57,000 riders are expected to use. Does that improve transit throughout the region? We already have a busway through SODO and dedicated bus lanes on the bridge, let’s make it easy for West Seattle buses to connect to the light rail at SODO station by adding an offramp on Spokane Viaduct to the busway.    

      • Bug January 26, 2025 (9:18 pm)

        Objecting to building one part of a longer system bc it won’t provide the entire system all at once immediately is childish and absurd. Urban rail systems last for generations, and any appropriate accounting of it’s benefits needs to think in that timeframe.

      • Charlottie January 26, 2025 (9:34 pm)

        transfer at sodo that will take you to the airport

      • Justin January 26, 2025 (11:58 pm)

        So in your Ballard-centric scenario, Ballard and the rest of Seattle get light rail, while West Seattle gets more specially-branded buses that will get stuck in traffic because adjacent property owners will fight tooth and nail to minimize any takes of free parking, and which will experience service cutbacks the next time there’s some sort of shortfall in operating revenue, or lack of drivers. Go put lipstick on some other pig.

  • aa January 26, 2025 (9:57 am)

    I’ll readily admit I don’t know much about this situation. What I do know is the number of people commuting to work has changed since 2020.  Any study done on ridership before Covid needs to be redone.  Also, West Seattle residents have a generations old history of not wanting to be part of Seattle so fighting this integration into Seattle will  naturally create a fight.   Look at the push back when Molly Moons came over!

  • Highland Park neighbor January 26, 2025 (10:15 am)

    I’m so tired of seeing the same old cranks protesting about the light rail! They are dinosaurs, and very unserious, especially the gondola dude. We need the rail, period. We voted for it, period. The people who support this simply don’t have the time to attend these meetings because they still work full time and have young families. The retired, rich old guys have the time. They are less than 5% of the population. I really wish the WSB would stop giving them the attention they do, and give them the attention that they deserve.

    • WSB January 26, 2025 (12:00 pm)

      (1) News coverage is not “attention.” And prior to this event, our last mention of this group was last September. I also responded to a version of this criticism at https://westseattleblog.com/2025/01/weekend-preview-heres-what-rethink-the-link-plans-at-saturday-forum/#comment-2612029

    • CarDriver January 26, 2025 (1:27 pm)

      HPneighbor.   News to me that all old people are rich. Care to share your source on that? Care to share why you believe it’s important for only certain people to express a view and opinion? Care to share why anybody with views and opinions differing from you should not be allowed to express their opinions, and indeed ostracized for expressing those opinions? Care to share why you believe the media should be ostracized for publishing everything you don’t agree with?

  • Mark January 26, 2025 (10:24 am)

    “This is why we can’t have nice things”, why nothing gets done in this city.  NIMBY, privilege, “I didn’t get my way, I’m better than everybody else”.  They say the far left is no different than the far right and this was on full display here.  It was voted on, it passed.  The result isn’t perfect but it’s a step. 

  • Commuting Joe January 26, 2025 (10:26 am)

    Build the Light Rail. That’s it. Period.

  • JeffB January 26, 2025 (10:28 am)

    Start building the 4 line to kirkland and Ussaquah if you can’t figure out what you want with the West Seattle line.

  • Avalon Station FTW January 26, 2025 (10:31 am)

    there is a famous saying, “A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.” – it seems like these old men rather chop down trees.

  • nwMarco January 26, 2025 (10:44 am)

    I don’t understand the hostility toward the gondola idea. It would cost much less, be implemented sooner, dispace fewer businesses and residents, and be a cool tourist attraction. Those of use in White Center/Burien, where there is still relatively affordable housing, will likely never see the benefits of the light rail. It takes me over an hour to get downtown by bus, whether I drive to the Burien Transit center or walk to a nearby bus stop. 

    • Unfortunate January 26, 2025 (12:13 pm)

      It’s been proven to be a completely unrealistic and unviable idea many many many times over. 

    • JustSarah January 26, 2025 (1:01 pm)

      “…be a cool tourist attraction” is the only part of that I agree with. A gondola would have very limited capacity, would require complex engineering, would be disastrous in the event of a breakdown, and would literally only go from point A to point B. So yeah, as a recreational option, sure. As an actual transit solution? Laughable. 

  • MrBell January 26, 2025 (10:51 am)

    7 billion dollars would pay for bus service from Sodo to West Seattle for 1000 years.  Surely there’s better ways to spend this money.  The ROI on such a massive price does not calculate.  

    • Lagartija Nick January 26, 2025 (12:19 pm)

      Hey Martin Pagel, this person fell for your untruths and clearly doesn’t see the “whole picture.”

    • my two cents January 26, 2025 (1:32 pm)

      $7 Billion divided by 1,000 years = $7 Million per year ($583,000 per month)2,5000 riders (assumed low end of estimate) per day x 365 days = 912,000 annual ridershipWell – numbers don’t look too bad based on your assertion, in my opinion.  Might work better if you used $7 billion over 100 years … 

    • The King January 26, 2025 (5:06 pm)

      Metro’s 2018 total budget was $1.3 billion. Operating expenses alone back then was half of the budget at $650,000,000 for one year, fuel, equipment procurement, lawsuits etc filled out the rest. That 7 billion would give you a little over five years back then before everything tripled in price 

      • My two cents January 27, 2025 (11:44 am)

        Merely was doing a math check on the supposition of 1,000 years. Hyperbole isn’t a hallmark to an objective statement.

  • Scarlett January 26, 2025 (11:03 am)

    The very first thing you ask yourself about a project like this is:  Who’s profiting and who’s actually benefiting? Well, we know that the construction industry, which pushed this magnificent piece of pork, is salivating over their contracts and the assurance that the taxpayer will come to their rescue when costs balloon, as they always do.  The public transportation user? Not so much.  Many of us are happy with bus transit that picks us up closer to our homes, delivers us closer to our destination – without climbing up from cold catacombs of a light rail station.   

    • Lagartija Nick January 26, 2025 (12:26 pm)

      The construction industry did not put this on the ballot, PEOPLE did. You know, your neighbors, coworkers and emphatically yes, other transit riders. And seriously, “cold catacombs?” Are you for real?

      • WSB January 26, 2025 (1:20 pm)

        To clarify, this wasn’t a ballot initiative, it was a measure developed by ST and sent to voters by the ST board (certainly they are people too, so you’re technically correct). See page 12 of this ST FAQ from 2016, which I just happened onto …
        https://www.soundtransit.org/st_sharepoint/download/sites/PRDA/ActiveDocuments/Report%20-%20ST3%20Q%26A.pdf
        (Page 13 also has ST’s answer at the time about “why not just invest in buses instead of rail?”)

      • Scarlett January 26, 2025 (4:04 pm)

        Oh, I’m quite real, but I wonder about some of you, frankly.  Yes,  you and others voted for a piece of juicy infrastructure pork that was pushed by the the industries who stand to most profit from it.   It replicates a public service already provided by bus transit, and doesn’t offer anything substantially more.  Yeah, the definition of pork.  No only that, it displaces our neighbors.  Own it. 

        • Walkerws January 26, 2025 (4:51 pm)

          It doesn’t offer anything more than buses? It offers grade separation – which is huge! This must be the 10th or 20th comment that has explained this point to you at this point – so I’ll add to the chorus of “are you for real?” And I’ll add a hearty “please consider whether reiterating half truths prevents anyone from even beginning to take you seriously”

  • Atheist January 26, 2025 (11:10 am)

    As someone who attended the meeting, this was not a forum for old white men or rich people. A big shout out to the West Seattle High School teacher and her four students that came to learn about this process. 

  • WSBReader January 26, 2025 (2:18 pm)

    I just want the endless arguing to stop so we can finally start building that sweet sweet light rail. I personally hate driving, and buses get stuck in the same traffic as everybody else.

    • Scarlett January 26, 2025 (4:30 pm)

      That’s your argument – buses get stuck in traffic?  Guess what, buses and cars going to continue to get stuck in traffic when light rail comes.  What happens when your light rail car is full and you, or your neighbor, gets left at the station?  The problems with density are going to continue and continue to accelerate when light rail comes because light rail simply does not have the capability to make any significant impact on problems associated with density.  What does? Improved bus transit, with its inherent flexibility to accomodate more growth, at least in the near term.  After that, density will be somewhat self-limiting as it will, in the long term, make a neighborhood less attractive.  There are no shortcuts,  whether light rail, buses, or magic carpets so lets stop pretending that there are, especially at $7 bil a pop. 

      • Sheeple January 27, 2025 (7:27 pm)

        Spectacular insight, yes!!! Trains don’t work in crowded cities, that’s why NYC and London and Tokyo shuttered their useless subway systems — when given the choice, people just prefer a bus!

  • Bob January 26, 2025 (4:06 pm)

    The light rail is fine as it is. Most people in Seattle walk where they need to go, I’ve lived other cities where it is car-centric and its just a cluttered mess of gas in the air, honking, and bleakness. THE LIGHT RAIL IS AWESOME 💯 Keep expanding it!

  • Scarlett January 26, 2025 (5:39 pm)

    Sober analysis never stands a chance against the emotional appeal of a concept.  We’ll all be waiting on pins and needles as we wait for the transformative changes certain to come with West Seattle light rail.  

    • Derek January 26, 2025 (10:26 pm)

      You are always new emotional one on these threads 

  • EL January 26, 2025 (5:49 pm)

    Why do we keep getting ripped off?  This is now the second boondoggle I’ve lived through regarding mass transit from WS. The first being the monorail. I remember paying for tabs and paid $600 per year to RT (Regional Transit?). That was 90% of the cost of the tabs. Then, guess what? NO MONORAIL. And a series of articles how the money was mismanaged or ripped off or I don’t remember. I just don’t get why this always ends up being a gigantic nothingburger after we all spend thousands on trying to get a solution built!  Something isn’t right. 

  • Josh January 26, 2025 (7:34 pm)

    I 100% support the WS Light Rail. You all can delay the inevitable but at the end of the day its going to happen. Move to Bremerton if you don’t like Light Rails. The ability to serve (at a minimum) 6,000 to 25,000 people a day is amazing. I know hundreds that wait for the bus that never shows and miss work or school because of it. Your past is not our present. 

  • tim January 26, 2025 (10:13 pm)

    Has anybody taken the bus lately? It’s only a dollar, and it comes  every 7 minutes. What do you need a light Rail for? the first thing you’ll get with light rail is a rent/property tax increase.

    • walkerws January 27, 2025 (8:32 am)

      Buses get stuck in traffic. Trains don’t. This becomes more relevant as populations increase.

      • Ah January 27, 2025 (9:18 am)

        trains break and there are no last minute rerouting options like buses do. I have taken the buses and they get me into downtown fast. I have no need to go to SODO. And I do not think ridership will ever be high enough to make it all worth it unless you tear everything down near the 3 light rail stations and build a metropolis. The whole work from home, and live and work at home thing has taken hold. And people love their cars to get off the island so they can take their toys and dogs.

        • Bbron January 27, 2025 (10:13 am)

          frequency of Link breaking down is magnitudes less than how often buses get delayed in traffic

        • walkerws January 27, 2025 (10:30 am)

          Amazing how trains work everywhere in the world yet face insurmountable problems in Seattle. The logic is impeccable.

    • Ah January 27, 2025 (9:19 am)

      not a dollar for me. It should be free to get people out of their cars.

      • walkerws January 27, 2025 (10:31 am)

        Car drivers already get more “free” than train riders do or ever will. Road and parking subsidies dwarf what will ever be spent on rail in the region.    

    • Jay January 27, 2025 (11:05 am)

      It’s telling that you think the bus only costs a dollar. That hasn’t been the case for a very, very long time. It’s been $2.75 for about a decade. The anti-progress camp is depressingly out of touch, most of them are hurting the following generations out of ignorance rather than malice.

  • Alki Parent January 26, 2025 (10:38 pm)

    These people continue to beclown themselves.

  • Tivasi January 27, 2025 (6:25 am)

    The American car centric and transit rejecting mindset is totally insane and it’s irrational to have car good, rail bad mindset. 

    • Scarlett January 27, 2025 (10:37 am)

      We are rejecting an option that will not provide a meaningful solution to our car-centric culture.  This is being level-headed, pragmatic and understanding when a proposed public transportation option, especially for this obscene cost, is really worth the investment.  I find much more irrational, pie-in-the-sky hyperbole coming from the pro-link people.  

      • numbers January 27, 2025 (1:34 pm)

        “obscene cost”

        Ok, so what will it cost you?  I’m curious, because you and various old, white men continue to moan about the cost.  Which implies you know the cost. 

        So, in all sincerity, what will this cost you? 

        How much will you be out each year because light rail comes to West Seattle? 

    • Scarlett January 27, 2025 (1:12 pm)

      Is this the newest trend from light rail proponents, false choice and oversimplication “arguments?”  It feels like desperation to me. 

      • walkerws January 27, 2025 (1:48 pm)

        Well there is no newest trend from light rail opponents, they’re just continuing to misinterpret or outright lie about ridership projections and willfully ignore any and all research about the concept of induced demand.

      • Santiagou January 27, 2025 (3:07 pm)

        Not desperation. The project has been approved. We need true mass transit solutions as soon as possible. The biggest cost the city bears is car dependency. 7 billion is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of car dependency and its externalities. We deserve a better city, let’s get it done! 

        • Jeff B. January 27, 2025 (7:24 pm)

          7 billion is a drop in the bucket? You must be part of the oligarchs rubbing up next to tRump. It’s a lot of money to most people and could be used for much better causes. 

  • Mark January 27, 2025 (9:28 am)

    The ST3 promises that the voters approved were recently estimated to cost $148 billion, versus the $53 billion that the taxpayers approved.Rethink the Link is a much broader discussion than West Seattle. Abandon Tacoma or Everett in order to build West Seattle? For those concerned about racism, maybe West Seattle is not the best place to invest if we need to start culling parts of the plan. And criticizing folks who take the time and effort to be engaged – just because they are white males – is unacceptable.

  • Jeff Baker January 27, 2025 (12:38 pm)

    Reasons the light rail to West Seattle is ridiculous: The cost, 2 billion a mile and they already don’t have the funds to pay off the loan, they will just pay on the interest, so the next generation will inherit that debt.It is not going to downtown like they said when we voted, it’s kind of a train to SODO and there you will have to hop a bus to get to downtown.The carbon that is generate during construction will never be mitigated and the loss of 4 acres of mature trees will have additional impact on the climate crisis. This is being built for a projected ridership of 5,400 people, this is a lot of money for this amount of people.Please stay informed and continue to educate yourself on the real facts as laid out in this article. Jeff B.

    • walkerws January 27, 2025 (1:47 pm)

      The projected ridership is not ultimately 5,400 people. The critics of this much needed rail expansion are giving up whatever credibility they might have had by repeating that mistruth over and over again.

    • My two cents January 27, 2025 (2:41 pm)

      You seem to be quite declarative! Love the use of construction carbon costs, seems the gondola – monorail – more busses have really latched onto that one.also, what is the obsession over the transfer in SODO? Or are waiting arrival of the Robotaxi compliments of Mr. Musk? No transfers with those!

    • Scarlett January 27, 2025 (2:55 pm)

      Correct, Jeff.   As a comparative example, 60,000 tons of CO2 were dumped into the atmosphere during the building of the Lynwood link, CO2 that will never be mitigated in our lifetimes.  The alleged benefits shrivel even more when you consider that light rail is going up against already existing bus transit, a vastly more climate friendly option.  Will the light rail tribe consider this?  The answer is no, because my well-intentioned (I like to believe) friends are under the spell of a cool – but oddly “antediluvian” – technology.    

    • Santiagou January 27, 2025 (3:13 pm)

      The cost of a car dependent West Seattle is way higher to leave to the next generations than the cost of mass transit. Previous generations were not brave enough to solve for West Seattle and we have an opportunity to solve it now. The ridership of 30k plus will thank you. 

  • B January 27, 2025 (2:36 pm)

    Is that thee one and only Kim Warnick of The Fastbacks in attendance?!? Nice! 

  • Scarlett January 27, 2025 (3:23 pm)

    Here, in my opinion is what should happen with those “billions and billions,” to borrow from Carl Sagan:No one is saying, tear up the existing light rail infrastructure -it’s here, obviously – but here’s what we can do to make it the most of it.  Redirect ST money that will go for more fixed, inflexible light rail infrastructure into expanding bus transit which will bring riders from public transportation “deserts” in far flung areas of King County to stations.  After all, all the shiny new light rail stations are worthless if a sizable segment without cars can’t get to them – right?  So far, the efforts to do this are very underwhelming. What about West Seattle?  West Seattle is already served well by bus transit and so the idea of someone adding another component, another trip to a their light rail station, doesn’t really make sense, does it?  Why take a bus to a light rail station,  wait to transfer, when you can take a non-stop bus to my destination?  Think about it.  

  • Marie January 27, 2025 (3:58 pm)

    I wonder if anyone is aware that we already have transit service from the Junction to SODO? It’s the Metro 50 bus. You don’t have to wait until 2030-something to ride it. It stops at all the locations that light rail will.  And you can do it today for just $2.75! Also, if you want to go downtown from the Junction using transit, you can do that today, too. You don’t have to wait until 2040-ish for the train – just take the Rapid Ride C. Everything ST3 is supposed to bring to West Seattle via light rail already exists. And if you want to connect to light rail today, there are 9, yes 9!, bus routes that currently connect West Seattle to various points along the light rail “spine.” That said, West Seattle definitely needs transit improvement. Read all about it here.  https://www.whereiamnow.net/post/here-s-why-west-seattle-needs-a-comprehensive-transit-plan 

    • Ian January 28, 2025 (11:35 am)

      Lol comparing route 50 to grade separated rail. Do you even take the bus? Is that the same kind of argument you used when fighting against Forward Thrust in 1968?

Sorry, comment time is over.