WEST SEATTLE LIGHT RAIL: From ‘disappointed’ to ‘concerning,’ Sound Transit board-committee members’ reactions to new $ estimates

By Tracy Record
West Seattle Blog editor

In June 2016, the Sound Transit Board voted to go to the ballot with the ST3 plan, including light rail to West Seattle by 2030. At the time, the WS extension was bundled with the Ballard extension, and the cost of both was estimated to total $7.1 billion.

Eight years later, that’s the new high-end estimate for West Seattle light rail alone (Ballard is proceeding on a different track).

Revised cost estimates arrive as the board is on the verge of finalizing a route and station locations for the West Seattle extension. The Final Environmental Impact Statement is out, and the board’s Executive Committee was told today that a project recommendation is expected to emerge from the System Expansion Committee in just three weeks. But will it resemble the “preferred alternative” that’s been studied, given the new potential price tag?

ST’s new deputy CEO for megaproject delivery, Terri Mestas, spoke calmly about the “cost evolution” as she and West Seattle project leader Jason Hampton presented their update at the committee meeting. Mestas listed a wide variety of factors for the higher estimate, from the methodology used in estimating to the higher cost of materials such as concrete to “market conditions” such as a “limited labor and contractor pool.”

In addition, “process delays” and “pandemic impacts” figured into it too, Mestas said.

This was a briefing, not a prelude to a vote, so the committee members’ discussion was limited to some early takes. The committee’s chair, King County Executive Dow Constantine – observing that he’s the only board member who lives in West Seattle – said he’s “disappointed” by the new estimate. But, he stressed, it’s “important not to be paralyzed or overwhelmed” by the number, to get the project “designed and shovel-ready,” while moving ahead “in financially prudent ways.” He said he’s drafting a motion for next week’s full board meeting to “inform” their forthcoming financial decisions. Constantine opened his remarks with a defense of West Seattle light rail – which he led the fight to get into the ST3 ballot measure in 2016 – saying the peninsula needs “redundancy,” and citing a recent (unattributed) poll as showing that 72 percent of peninsula residents want light rail.

Committee member Claudia Balducci, a King County Councilmember from the eastside, invoked a modified version of the Serenity Prayer in her comments, saying it’s important to “understand what we can and can’t change … let’s get to work on what we can influence.”

Committee member Bruce Dammeier, Pierce County Executive, called the estimate “very concerning … we should all be concerned about the impact on the rest of the system … there may be some very difficult decisions ahead of us.” He also urged that the focus stay on “delivering ridership” rather than “the nicest stations” and other discretionary elements.

Speaking of ridership, West Seattle project leader Hampton recapped those projections during his part of the briefing, which was meant to hit key points of the Final EIS, not just the cost estimates:

Hampton noted that the high-end Junction estimate is what they’d expect to see there if the Avalon station is dropped – which remains a possibility – and that the Delridge ridership would in large part be people transferring from buses. He also briefly recapped the routing/station-location alternatives studied for the Final EIS; you can see those pages in the full slide deck.

Two routing-specific comments were heard from community members at the start of the meeting. First, a business owner at Jefferson Square – currently expected to be demolished for construction of the Junction station – said a coalition had come together around proposing that the location be moved a short distance east to the Bank of America site instead. Next, a property owner in the Avalon area, Beth Boomgard-Zagrodnik, said the DEL6A option makes more sense than the currently “preferred” DEL6B. She was followed by John Niles of Smarter Transit – whose Sound Transit-skeptic group held a West Seattle event two months ago – saying the WS project’s metrics are “unsustainable.” The numbers are “screaming ‘do not build’,” he contended. Marilyn Kennell, whose home is in the project’s potential path, said terms of the original 2016 vote allowed for reconsideration, and repeated calls for a West Seattle town hall – “We need a conversation.” And two other West Seattleites, Kim Schwarzkopf and Lucy Barefoot, urged that the project simply not be built.

Earlier in the meeting, there was a glimmer of hope on the financial front, when interim CEO Goran Sparrman (whose time in that role has just been extended into next year) talked about “reforms” he said had been recommended by ST’s Technical Advisory Group. He said they hope to apply some of them to the West Seattle project “as part of a suite of cost-control measures.”

So here’s the timeline they’re working on for decisionmaking – a routing/station-location recommendation on October 10, a board vote as soon as October 24:

But, as clarified in response to a question from Dammeier during committee members’ discussion, voting on “the project to be built” isn’t the same thing as allocating money for it – that would happen about two years later, Constantine and Mestas clarified. How much money will be needed – that depends on those “difficult” decisions in the weeks ahead. In the big picture, here’s the expected timeline for design and construction:

In ST3, West Seattle light rail was projected for a 2030 launch; in 2020, that was pushed to 2031; it moved to 2032 one year later, when ST “realigned” its multi-project schedule because of dramatically increasing costs.

REMINDER: Though the Final EIS has been available since last week, its official publication date is tomorrow (Friday, September 20), and ST plans a series of informational meetings starting next Wednesday:

When: Wednesday, Sept. 25, 4:30-6:30 p.m.
Where: Youngstown Cultural Arts Center, 4408 Delridge Way SW, West Seattle

Spanish, Vietnamese, and Somali interpretation will be provided.

When: Tuesday, Oct. 1, 4:30-6:30 p.m.
Where: Alki Masonic Center, 4736 40th Ave SW, West Seattle

Spanish and Vietnamese interpretation will be provided.

When: Wednesday, Oct. 2, 11 a.m.-1 p.m.
Where: Gallery B612, 1915 First Ave. S, SODO

115 Replies to "WEST SEATTLE LIGHT RAIL: From 'disappointed' to 'concerning,' Sound Transit board-committee members' reactions to new $ estimates"

  • Scarlett September 20, 2024 (5:37 am)

    West Seattle light rail is an insanely costly, insanely idiotic piece of infrastructure pork.  It reminds me of the “Bridge to Nowhere” in Alaska that was eventually scrapped in favor of simply expanding ferry service.   West Seattle Light Rail needs to be stopped in its tracks, via court if necessary.   

    • Hike September 20, 2024 (10:11 am)

      “Let’s drive up costs through endless delay, then use those costs as an excuse to cancel it!”Never seen such pure bad faith.

      • ataribear September 27, 2024 (10:24 pm)

        Sounds like the same technique used to kill the monorail…

    • LoveWS September 21, 2024 (8:42 am)

      I think it will be a big benefit to West Seattle, will be heavily used and will electrify our transportation to other parts of the city.But a zipline from the WS overlook to SODO would be cheap and fun, to fill the gap. Whee!  The slog back up the hill might keep people from using it though.

  • CarDriver September 20, 2024 (6:16 am)

    My prediction. Pro light rail people will say “we signed that blank check so just build it and we will happily pay whatever the cost is”.  Those of us on fixed income or not in a high paying job will be told “we don’t care if you can’t afford it-just move”

    • Himp September 20, 2024 (10:10 am)

      Yes, public transit is famously only for the rich. Only poor people drive cars. 

      • Smits McKey September 20, 2024 (12:25 pm)

        It’s true, I’m poor, and I drive a car!Maybe they can just build more bike lanes, everybody rides bikes. Except for the roughly 95% of the population that is either incapable of or uninterested in riding one. 

        • Koop September 21, 2024 (9:43 am)

          Bike ridership (in w city whose infrastructure makes riding dangerous) is definitely a compelling argument against rail, those two things are the same.

        • Bbron September 21, 2024 (11:52 am)

          there are even poorer people out there that can’t afford a car.

    • Bbron September 20, 2024 (12:09 pm)

      i agree that fixed income folks shouldn’t shoulder the tax burden thru property taxes. i would want there to be something structured as an income tax that puts more of the burden on higher income earners in the city and county.

      i don’t think anyone should be force out from where they live. there does have to be a balance to those that own a SFM in densifying areas, and maybe we could have better paths and incentives for people to downsize. a large part of the costs of WSLE is due to inflated housing prices driven up b/c of a lack of supply and having too much suburbanization (additional to that is how much land needs to be dedicated to transportation which car infra. eats up a ton of, but i digress).

      • jj September 21, 2024 (7:30 am)

        It’s not just property taxes paying for it. Have you noticed why it has suddenly become so costly to register your vehicle? The drivers are funding public transit, not the rail riders. Thank the voters in 2017 for this. 

        • Bbron September 21, 2024 (11:48 am)

          fees associated with car ownership get no where near to the amount of money to maintain roads. sure, there are explicit revenue sources ear marked for transit projects associated with car fees; however, those do not generate any significant amount compared to set costs in budgets for road maintainence. those budgets for car infrastructure are never challenged by constituents so there’s no need to find explicit funding sources. until the cost of car ownership actual matches the expenses needed to maintain the infrastructure and hoard the substantial amount of land for it, I won’t care how much drivers have to pay in fees because they’ve already been subsidized for decades by siphoning funding from other services.

          • ataribear September 27, 2024 (10:29 pm)

            Roads serve other vehicles besides cars, and many of them cause more wear and tear which drives up maintenance costs.

  • Seth September 20, 2024 (6:27 am)

    Checking in as a voter who wants light rail. Bring it on. The reason this price tag is so much higher is due to delay. 

    • CarDriver September 20, 2024 (11:23 am)

      Who exactly is responsible for the delays?

  • Density Targets? September 20, 2024 (6:39 am)

    Where can info be found on the plan for significant new residential development needed to hit those daily boarding estimates? As project price tags go up, part of the discussion has to be how much housing density and where is needed to generate revenue to make it worth building and operating the thing. Or is that part of what Dammeier hinted at when mentioning the impact on the rest of the system? 

    • bill September 20, 2024 (7:42 pm)

      Um, building housing is a free market thing. There is no Soviet-style plan. What we know is the Alki Lumber property is slated for redevelopment. At a glance, the old low-rise decrepit buildings in the Triangle are ripe for conversion to dense housing. Existing Link stations are spurring nearby housing development. Built it (light rail), and they will come (housing and business).

  • Junction resident September 20, 2024 (7:22 am)

    Spending money when we don’t have it is irresponsible. One station in west Seattle is fine. Have it be on Avalon and people can get there via bus, bike, or park and ride. The last thing we need is a new tax to support this mismanagement- please let our local officials know this is absurd and we can’t just figure it out later. Our city’s approach to growth is ridiculous. I have had enough with the mismanagement of funds (from school budget, to homelessness issue, to open drug use, to transportation) 

    • Terris September 20, 2024 (11:44 am)

      Anticipated ridership is 26k/day. The WSB handles 100k cars/day, so this is only cutting that by 25%. Which is good, but definitely not a panacea considering the exorbitant cost involved. Eliminating *any* of the stations would further limit ridership and they’ll cut the Avalon station before the Junction. How do you have a neighbourhood station with one terminal at $7b+?  No one is going to walk or bike 1.5 miles from Avalon to the Junction (or vice versa) with that enormous hill by the golf course…Wiping out Jefferson Square with all its businesses and apartments instead of moving the station *one block over* and demolishing a BoA that they didn’t even reopen for quite a while after covid (due to lack of demand) is insane to me and surely costs way more money for imminent domain. Please make it all make sense. 

  • Brian Hughes September 20, 2024 (7:33 am)

    Ugh – that is a ton of money.  Check my math:  $7.1 billion divided by $3/ride = about 2.37 billion rides needed to payback the initial investment.  Divide that by 27,000 rides per day = 87,654 days to payback of initial investment.  Divide that by 365 days = just north of 240 years.  I have always been a rail supporter, but someone’s going to have to add to the list of positives in the ROI calculation in order for this to make sense.  You could provide every “household” (35,000 households) in West Seattle with a $45,000 electric car for about $1.6 billion.  Granted that wouldn’t solve the traffic problem and wouldn’t be as equitable in that only those who can drive would benefit.  But Dow (who I’ve always voted for/supported) and Sound Transit have some work to do here to justify this massive expense.  Oh, and we all know it won’t be $7.1 billion… so there’s that.

    • Chuck September 20, 2024 (10:14 am)

      “For the same price we could do something different that wouldn’t work” is certainly an argument.

    • Bbron September 20, 2024 (12:15 pm)

      a lot of the benefit of public transit doesn’t come directly from the fare box. it’s reduced costs to move people versus alternatives, particularly cars. it’s in time savings from resiliency in your transportation network to support things such as road changing accidents, popular events, weather. the list is extensive. public transit would be worth it even if there wasn’t a fare; just observe how youth under 18 ride free and how that enables them to do so much more without having to depend on a driver. that’s an incalculable community benefit having kids able to move about the city freely.    

      • jj September 21, 2024 (7:34 am)

        Not exactly a 7 billion dollar argument. 

        • Bbron September 21, 2024 (10:53 am)

          worlds better of an argument than simply thinking that if fares done make up for the cost then it’s not worth it

    • K September 20, 2024 (12:49 pm)

      Your math is whack, dude.  Reducing reliance on cars saves money in the long run.  Ability to use mass transit saves households in the long run.  There are so many more costs and savings in the equation than rider fare.  The state has spent over 7 billion on incarcerating people in the same amount of time we’ve been just TALKING about light rail, but no one cares to see per-inmate costs to taxpayers on that one.  No one questions the public good of having prisons, or the benefit they provide to people who, themselves, do not need to go to prison.  Mass transit is a public benefit, with both direct and secondary benefits to lots of people.  It doesn’t need to be self-supporting to be a good idea.

    • platypus September 20, 2024 (4:34 pm)

      Now do the west seattle bridge, include the 2021 fix. Infrastructure never, nor should pay for itself. That is not to say we should do a blank check, just that its not a great assessment.

  • Rob September 20, 2024 (7:37 am)

    At that price  they could just pay people to stay home. 

  • penpal September 20, 2024 (7:42 am)

    I still have a free ticket for the monorail opening day dated December 15 2007.

    • RayWest September 20, 2024 (3:36 pm)

      Yeah, it’s like “Deja Vu all over again,” as yet another big-ticket transportation project goes haywire. Everyone remember that last debacle? Maybe the officials were hoping we’d forgotten. We were promised that one would cost $$$, but surprise, because of cost delays and overruns it will cost $$$$$$$! Now here we are again. I’m not willing to pay for others people’s folly. End this project now.

  • WS resident September 20, 2024 (8:04 am)

    So at what point do we say enough? Where do we stop? Billions more and still no guarantee that the project would be on time and on (this) budget…And we can’t find $100M for the education of our kids but this is ok? It’s time we rethink how our taxes are being allocated and get some real oversight on all infrastructure projects in this city. Politics and talks aside (bla-bla-bla), project managers need to be accountable. Enough with the blank checks. 

  • Goodforthebus September 20, 2024 (8:12 am)

    We don’t need light rail in west seattle

    • Churro Strength September 20, 2024 (2:22 pm)

      Yes, we do! I’m so sick of the lies that cars and busses are enough. 

      • Natinstl September 20, 2024 (4:19 pm)

        Curious where you can’t get to via car, bus, ferry or water taxi?

        • Hive September 20, 2024 (5:55 pm)

          “why build paved roads? It’s so expensive, curious where you can’t get to on horseback?”

        • HS September 20, 2024 (6:28 pm)

          Are you kidding? It takes me an hour to get to Alki from south Fauntleroy. I often decline events in the evening because it takes so long to get home. It’s not comfortable waiting alone outside, on the street, for a long period of time at night. Not only for safety concerns but all too often the buses simply don’t show up. Or you’re the only woman on the bus with 10 unsheltered men. Too many times I’ve spent 40+ min standing at a bus stop, after dark, trying to get home – for example, after the ballet. As far as where I can’t go… the east side, the mountains, etc. … but really, it’s because it can take two hours on a bus to get somewhere that you can reach in 30 min with a car.

          • jj September 21, 2024 (7:41 am)

            An hour to travel a few miles seems hard to believe. I commute from Fairmont Park to Renton Highlands 5 days a week and it takes 1.5 hours in the mornings and a little longer to return in the evenings. That is with a transfer in Sodo. 

          • PNW Raven September 21, 2024 (8:31 am)

            From reading comments, it seems that some people have a romanticized vision of what light rail provides and think it will take them wherever they want like it’s Uber on rails. In West Seattle, it will not take people to the Admiral Junction, Lincoln Park, Alki, the West Seattle ferry dock, etc. It will take people to certain core areas in downtown Seattle, but many restaurants, theaters, museums, stores, etc. will still require long walks for some of these businesses. I’m not against light rail, but people need to be realistic about what they’re paying for, how much it costs, and who is paying for it. 

    • 98126res September 20, 2024 (8:32 pm)

      Agree!  But maybe our peninsula needs an innovative way to get around west Seattle quickly and easily, for errands, to Alki, admiral, junctions, etc. 

  • Alki resident September 20, 2024 (8:17 am)

    Bwahahaha, that’s not even going to be the final tab. Kudos

  • wetone September 20, 2024 (8:27 am)

    Estimated cost of $7 billion projected today……most likely more when/if built. Total insanity for a 4 mile section of this build, let alone any build in the world for a 4 mile section for moving such few people. How anyone can justify the continuation of this project either has to be involved with project or a person  that  has never launched from family and has no reality of money. This also shows how bad our government has got when they continue to support this unnecessary unsustainable project. City/State should be able to build a new transportation corridor that covers vehicles, semi trucks, pedestrians, bicycles with a separate bus lane and don’t forget the train bridge (100+yrs old) that crosses the Duwamish River for T5 access for the price tag of a one purpose project that benefits very few. People need to remember that the life span of  High Rise and Swing Bridge is not that far out there…….. and this is reason to plan a joint project. Common Sense ………..

  • PDiddy September 20, 2024 (8:45 am)

    Huge money pit.

    • Derek September 20, 2024 (3:19 pm)

      Like highways 

  • Davis September 20, 2024 (8:46 am)

    Former West Seattle resident… And I’m personally tired of my former neighbors in West Seattle who are trying to derail light rail into West Seattle… That group posted a comment where they said for the amount of money they’re spending Metro could purchase 5,000 buses… And my response is yes that’s nice, but on what road are you going to fit an additional 5,000 buses? Don’t get me wrong, my former neighbors, I understand that there is going to be some pain and some homes and businesses will be lost, but this transit future is not for us, but it is for our kids and our grandkids. There is no room left on the freeways, I work as a truck driver and I can tell you we cannot expand roads to get out of this problem and buses and other means of transportation needs roads. Light rail is the future. Sadly lack of foresight in this city for what we could and would become meant that we didn’t do this when it was cheaper to do when West Seattle wasn’t as desirable and was full of vacant lots everywhere you looked. Sound Transit has bonding authority way into the future and I kind of think they’re going to figure this one out and get it done. 

    • WS Guy September 20, 2024 (9:51 am)

      It would be cheaper to just build the new bridge as a bus-only rapid transit corridor and leave it at that.  No stations, no tunnels, no giant elevated guideways.  It would separate the buses from the car traffic, it’s more flexible, and it would allow buses to continue to offer a 1-seat ride to the entire peninsula. 

    • rick September 20, 2024 (10:02 am)

      And if you get 5,000 buses how much more infrastructure is needed to store the buses, pay the multitude of new drivers/maintenance workers for those new buses, etc.Traffic is already getting worse and worse to drive across the bridge, as the city keeps going it’s not going to get any better. We need more options to get downtown and light rail is it.

      • PDiddy September 20, 2024 (10:26 am)

        I rode the bus from West Seattle to downtown and back yesterday. Going east there were 3 of us on the bus, the return 4. If they cannot fill a bus what is the point of light rail. I see the rapid rides doing just fine. I am good with a separate bus only option if its feasible as it would be a whole lot cheaper than the ST3 fiasco. Who is to blame for having to redo all the tracks on the I90 corridor and its delays? Hard to say. But the cost is passed on to us and the ST people are still collecting paychecks. I have lived in WS for a lot of years and I do NOT see the need or justification to extend the link here. Its not going to change the traffic dynamic at all imo.

        • Oakley34 September 20, 2024 (11:09 am)

          I rode the 21 in and out yesterday and there were far more than that. But a not full bus is an excuse often used by anti transit folks justify further pullback from transit. ‘The bus that comes every 20 minutes isn’t full let’s have them come every 40’. This sort of thinking only pushes transit use down further as folks (me) who rely on mass transit actually need it to be reliably regular and frequent in order to justify ditching our cars…which more and more people should be doing in an urban setting.

        • Bbron September 20, 2024 (12:17 pm)

          you obviously didn’t ride the C or the H line to downtown

        • Kitcat September 20, 2024 (1:20 pm)

          I totally agree with you. It’s a whole lot of expense for something that will not be used to its full potential. The buses are not full, the majority of people don’t use mas transit. Make what we have continue to work save tax payers the money and call it good.

          • Jif September 20, 2024 (2:12 pm)

            Transit is underused when it is infrequent, unreliable, and slow. Light rail solves these problems. That’s why it is popular around the world and successful in many cities, including our own. We have to invest in this well-proven infrastructure in order for people to use it, just like we had to build paved roads before people started mass adopting cars.

          • bill September 20, 2024 (7:48 pm)

            a whole lot of expense for something that will not be used to its full potential”. Presumably written by a car owner with no sense of irony. Almost every car on the high bridge could carry 4-6 people but the vast majority are single occupant.

        • CAM September 20, 2024 (1:29 pm)

          Ha. I rode the bus yesterday, as I do everyday, and people were sandwiched together like sardines in there. But sure, you got on the bus with nobody on it so you must be an expert in the field of public transit. 

          • Rick September 20, 2024 (3:06 pm)

            Yeah, take the bus in the morning and afternoons and it’s packed during the week. I would purposely it get in a C Line in the morning and wait for the next one because they were too full.

  • Steph September 20, 2024 (9:21 am)

    If they can’t keep Harborview open without raising taxes then they certainly can’t afford to add light rail to West Seattle! If corporations want their workers to come to their facilities to work then they should pay for this. Vote NO. Although I crawled out of my sickbed to vote against a stadium decades ago, the very next day after it was defeated Gary Locke was working a deal to build it anyway. Just say NO.

    • K September 20, 2024 (9:42 am)

      *sigh*  Harborview and Sound Transit have two different funding sources.  There is also nothing to vote on at this time.  Sound transit has wasted tens of millions appeasing the “they’re not studying/listening/waiting enough” crowd and now, unsurprisingly, they’re way over budget.  Any minute now we’ll see the same people who caused these delays and overruns (54 million to study a gondola that was never a serious option, might I remind everyone) to say “told you so” about a situation they created.  Seattle process at its finest.

  • WS Guy September 20, 2024 (9:32 am)

    Dropping Avalon station and moving Junction station one block east is the smart move.  The BofA location is more central and smaller/cheaper than the entire Jefferson Plaza.

    • KM September 20, 2024 (10:42 am)

      BofA is the perfect spot. The space is one of the most underutilized in the entire Alaska junction.

    • Carol September 20, 2024 (1:40 pm)

      Love the suggestion to move the Alaska station one block east and drop the Avalon station. Keep the tunnel, reduce expense, and lengthen time/distance between stations while still preventing people from needing to walk up a steep hill to get to a WS station. I wonder if they are not considering that because the apartment buildings would get displaced, increasing the residential displacements.I live on 26th near Youngstown, and while I am going to miss the impacted businesses (they should get way more financial support from SDOT!) and I’m not looking forward to living near years of construction, light rail provides another mass public transit option without increasing traffic in a city ConsumerAffairs listed this month as having the third worst traffic in the country (https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/cities-with-the-worst-traffic.html). Reliable public transit is critical for healthy urban living, and I want a more inclusive and accessible Seattle for me, my son, and future generations.This would be less expensive if previous voters had been more forward thinking. Agree that public funds need to be better managed – that can be true AND we need light rail in West Seattle that will later connect to the entire light rail network, letting West Seattleites reach the UW, Lynnwood, Everett, SEATAC airport, and Federal Way without using a car, or riding a bus that gets stuck in traffic.

      • ataribear September 27, 2024 (11:13 pm)

        Light rail is reliable?  Not a day passes when I don’t get emails from Sound Transit informing me of delays, power failures, a Link-involved collision, single tracking or station elevator/escalator outages.  Not to mention my recent experience when I had the misfortune of riding the train near the beginning of a Mariners game.

  • Salal September 20, 2024 (10:30 am)

    A pipe dream that keeps turning into a nightmare. This spur line needs to be scraped. We all know the bridge itself has a giant band aid on it that’s going to fail eventually. Maybe money is best spent on looking towards mitigating that.

  • IHeartBPP September 20, 2024 (10:35 am)

    Ugh…”Cost evolution”. Another euphemism coined by unelected bureaucrats to cover their ineptitude. Right up there with “traffic calming”.   

  • Tomas September 20, 2024 (11:15 am)

    Why can no one ever correctly forecast cost increases?  This shouldn’t be a surprise.  Every time there’s a delay of a year or more there should be a project cost update made along side it.   

    • Bbron September 21, 2024 (11:00 am)

      it’s almost as if a world wide catastrophy occurred somewhere in between it being passed and now

    • RayWest September 22, 2024 (3:57 am)

      These people do forecast cost increases. They just don’t publicize the “real” price tag to get pet projects passed that sound cheaper than they actually will be. This particular part of the ST project has gotten way out of hand. Spending “$7 Billion” (meaning it will be over $10 Billion) while ripping up established businesses and forcing people from their homes on something that will serve a relatively small number of people  is insane. And how much is the final cost really going to be with all the interest on the loans and financing? As I recalled from the Monorail debacle, the actual cost would have been many times more than what the public was being sold. I also remember the small businesses that were forced off their land and lost their livelihood before that project finally was cancelled. Now here we are again. Also, many of the beneficiaries of the WS Link Extension will be renters who do not pay the property taxes that are funding this project. Property taxes are already too high and driving people out of the area. The WS link extension needs to be cancelled. There are alternatives

      • Bbron September 22, 2024 (4:02 pm)

        renters don’t pay property taxes?

      • K September 22, 2024 (6:52 pm)

        Why do people keep saying it will serve a “relatively small” number of passengers?  Why do you think the light rail will function differently in West Seattle than it has in other neighborhoods, where it has been wildly successful.  Give your neighbors some credit, sheesh.  You make it sound like we’re some kind of backwater where no one will ride because we think it’s witchcraft or something.  It’s going to work the same here as it did everywhere else.

        • RayWest September 23, 2024 (8:50 am)

          K – Maybe you’re not quite understanding the gist of the argument. The issue is about the ballooning cost that is continually rising and not about how well a light rail system functions. The Link expansion was sold to voters as costing $7 Billion for “both” Ballard & West Seattle. We now know it’s that amount just for West Seattle. (And we can expect it will go much higher.)  For those who are the ones paying for this project through higher property taxes, it’s become a huge concern of price VS benefit for the “X” amount of people who will use it. As I mentioned, many riders will be renters living in and around the Link stations. They are shouldering almost none of the costs while enjoying the biggest benefit. Property taxes are getting out of hand. For homes like mine–small, two bedroom, about 1100 sq. ft., the yearly property tax rate is around $6,000! It wasn’t that long ago it was about $4,000 and that was barely affordable. And that rate is just for properties on the lower end of real estate value in West Seattle. It’s becoming unaffordable to live here. Long-time residents are being forced out of the area so that a, “relatively small number of passengers,” can more easily commute to work. This is not a project that will serve “the greater good.” 

          • K September 23, 2024 (11:25 am)

            Ah, so the argument is about people not really understanding who property taxes affect and who the light rail will benefit.  Gotcha.  Well, if it helps, I’m a homeowner who is paying for this, and it will help me.  It sounds like you have not been in the rental market for a VERY long time, but I assure you, all costs associated with owning a property (including taxes) are passed to the renters, and then some.  So you can rest easy knowing that renters are, proportionally, paying for light rail just as you are, without the benefit of writing off property taxes on their federal return as you can.  And, yes, the light rail will benefit them too.  I live in a 4-bedroom, 2000sf home and my property taxes were $6000 last year, so you’re either on a double lot, or maybe you live in a nicer neighborhood than I do, but you’re definitely not the low end of the peninsula.  Regardless, 1:4 people on the peninsula is hardly “a relatively small number” of your neighbors.  The long-term benefits far outweigh a tax bill that will stabilize as more of those apartments you’re afraid of are built.  This is the definition of a project that serves the greater good, and this kind of hand-wringing is what CAUSED most of the delays that are driving the price up.  

          • RayWest September 23, 2024 (3:59 pm)

            K- I do not live on a double lot or in a swanky area, though the location is near the main W.S. businesses areas, so that may be that’s why the tax rate is higher. I’m well aware that rent goes towards the apartment building’s property tax, but renters, individually, are not paying as much as homeowners, but they do create much of the demand for expanding the Link. As I have said, the issue is that the price overall has nearly doubled and the project (and does not account for the interest on the loans) and it is just becoming too costly, especially for people on a limited income.

          • K September 23, 2024 (6:10 pm)

            Renters are not paying as much as homeowners the same way homeowners at “the low end” of the market in West Seattle are not paying as much as those in multi-million dollar properties.  They’re paying their fair share.  Boo-hoo that it’s smaller than yours.  As I said, the ballooning costs are in large part, delays caused by homeowners and their spurious attempts to keep light rail and increased density out of their back yards.  It needs to happen, and people need to stop dragging the process out.

  • Scarlett September 20, 2024 (11:44 am)

    The plan:  Spend upwards of seven billion  – yes, billion – with other very significant front-loaded costs such as environmental degradation and dislocation of residents for a few miles of rail to connect West Seattle to downtown.   You can work out how much each light rail rider will be subsidized even if we take ST ridership projection fables as fact.   

    The benefits?  Another option to a neighborhood (WS is a peninsula, not an island) with muptiple egress points in and out and a neighborhood already well served by bus transit.   Another “option” that will not signifcantly reduce traffic congestion, will not really expand access to parts of West Seattle not already served by bus transit, bus transit that can be expanded to remove cars from roads.   And remember that for the majority of day,  when traffic on the bridge is light, it offers relatively little benefit over bus transit.  

    Light rail is not the future,  it doesn’t have the capability to be the future even if the entire city was enraptured by it.  It’s an infrastructure bon-bon for those who who will build it and a small subset who will use it.   

    • Bbron September 21, 2024 (11:06 am)

      what is the future for transportation, Scarlett? cause in no way are buses and cars: constant tire and brake pollution, exorbitant maintenance costs, oil use in at least the asphalt, huge costs to transport a single person. have you not noticed how “enraptured” we are with streets? how much more of the surface of the city will need to be paved over to support the necessary buses for our growing population (or are you a part of the “Seattle is full” crowd)? bemoan light rail all you want, but it is no doubt a better solution to transit bar none. just because we’ve sunk cost fallacy our way into car dependency doesn’t make it the end all be all solution.

  • anonyme September 20, 2024 (12:31 pm)

    I’ve long thought that the only plan that makes sense is a single station near the bridge, with increased shuttle service to bus hubs.  Tearing up a densely populated swath all the way to the Junction has never made sense.  It’s a widely accepted fact that this project as presented to voters was based largely on falsehoods, including eventual cost – and the ever-evolving timeline, which is now estimated to be 16 years from the time of the vote, rendering it obsolete.

  • Paul September 20, 2024 (2:22 pm)

    This project is not worth the cost & should be immediately cancelled.

    • Derek September 20, 2024 (3:19 pm)

      Nope, I want it and I live here and a homeowner in the path of one of the routes

  • Chris K September 20, 2024 (2:23 pm)

    If the project happens cost will soar above $10 billion before completion. This is the way of Sound Transit. 

  • West Seattle Bubble September 20, 2024 (2:38 pm)

    So we can afford $7+ billion for a light rail that if anything will reduce jobs in the area but we can’t afford $100 million for local schools, can’t afford $50 million to fund the public health clinic, can’t afford to hire more bus drivers, ferry operators, Police/CARE officers, etc. It just sounds asinine to me at this point. Can anyone pro-light rail really say it’s more important than schools or the public health clinic? If you’re worried about underprivileged individuals in the area I can almost guarantee they would rather have access to properly funded schools for their children and public health resources for themselves and their families at a fraction of the cost.

    • K September 20, 2024 (3:15 pm)

      The police have leftover money in their budget.  Money isn’t why they can’t hire more officers, there’s a labor shortage.  Everyone else you’ve listed has different funding sources. “I’m voting No on the school levy because I don’t like the light rail tax” is exactly how we got into this situation.  One does not affect the other, except in voters’ minds.

    • Derek September 20, 2024 (6:09 pm)

      Support public works and schools. Defund police and tax corporations fo pay for it. Change Washington tax structure to not benefit the wealthy. There wre better solutions than pitting school vs lightrail. Public works benefit society as a whole. Wealthy business owners profit off labor of those who can’t afford a car.

      • CarDriver September 20, 2024 (6:33 pm)

        Derek. What does your hatred of law enforcement have to do with ST’s cost overruns? No police will make transportation better/cheaper?

  • Andros September 20, 2024 (2:53 pm)

    I was never a fan.  Specifically because this line was going to take until 2032 to complete.  That was so far in the future, it just didn’t seem realistic at all.  Now with the additional cost of this, I really don’t know what the answer is.  If we scrap it, then we wait until 15 years??  If we go for it, then it’s terribly expensive and will be underutilized.  No solution here.  The original solution wa bad.  This is still bad.  

    • Future--Don't Care! September 23, 2024 (7:08 pm)

      “Specifically because this line was going to take until 2032 to complete. That was so far in the future, it just didn’t seem realistic at all.”

      Dude, I really hope you don’t have kids!

  • Natinstl September 20, 2024 (4:23 pm)

    And when will we need a replacement bridge and how much will that cost? This is ridiculous, would live to know this poll Dow speaks of as well.

    • WSB September 20, 2024 (5:08 pm)

      West Seattle Bridge is expected with the repairs and strengthening to last its original lifespan, to 2060.

  • Move cars, not people September 20, 2024 (5:47 pm)

    The final price tag by the 2030s will make today’s estimate look like a July 4th soda pop sale at Safeway.

  • WSEnvironmentalist September 20, 2024 (5:49 pm)

    ST4 is coming.  If not in 2025 then 2026.  Not voting for it!  I have lived in Seattle too long to believe any information, studies, projections or costs published by King County or the City of Seattle.  Yes, traffic is miserable – our drive home yesterday from Anacortes took 3.5 hours – horrible and frustrating.  More irritating was that the congestion began just north of Lynnwood and as we inched along I 5 we watched the much ballyhooed Light Rail roll past us, traveling in both directions, with virtually no riders.  Federal Way was supposed to have Light Rail by 2018 then 2020 or 2024 and now it may open by 2028.  Boondoggle agreed to by politicians, awarded to the lowest bidder/subcontractors, and not overseen by accountants and project managers who know how to ask the tough questions and hold contractors to their agreed services and timeframes.   Finally, how will Light Rail cross the Duwamish?  I continue to point to the fact that the Duwamish is a designated Superfund site and needs an extraordinary special approval (uncommon) from the Federal EPA in order to disrupt the contaminated sediments.

    • Derek September 21, 2024 (4:43 am)

      It will cross the same way the car bridge did.

  • K September 20, 2024 (6:24 pm)

    Can someone point to all of these articles written by unhappy Columbia City, Beacon Hill, or Northgate residents whose lives are worse now that they have light rail access?  I’m just not understanding why people think the light rail to West Seattle will be the worst thing that ever happened to them.  Everyone I know who lives in an area that allows them to commute via light rail is pretty darn happy about it.

    • WS Girl September 21, 2024 (7:41 am)

      The issue is not about being “unhappy” about light rail, but that the cost for the West Seattle extension has about doubled (and will rise), putting an even greater tax burden on residents. I doubt many people object to the overall benefits of light rail, but not at spiraling cost to those who are actually paying for it.

      • K September 22, 2024 (6:56 pm)

        I mean, I’m frustrated by those too, and was annoyed when Sound Transit kept giving a microphone to all of the people questioning the project in bad faith to try and stop it.  I mean, $54 million to study a gondola that was never a serious option to begin with?  THAT was a waste of money.  And giving everyone a chance to “be heard” had dragged things out, which makes it more expensive because rising labor costs, etc.  So yeah, that sucks, but NIMBYs gonna NIMBY and the sooner we stop wringing our hands and build the darn thing, the less overage we’ll be incurring from the delays.

        • PNW Raven September 24, 2024 (7:39 pm)

          I agree the whole gondola thing was ridiculous, but taxpayers have every right to question how their tax dollars are being spent, express concerns on neighborhood impacts, and object when a project has changed or was not as promoted. It’s not a matter of NIMBY or bad faith when taxpayers, who are asked to pony up even more money, want answers to their questions about a project’s viability. Anyone directly affected by this project has a right to “drag things out” if they want to know all viable options. Politicians, city and country planners, etc. are often too eager to jam through their pet projects. I, for one, want to know the final cost of this thing. Not just the $7 Billion we’re now being told, and which we know will be closer to $10 Billion, but the total cost of the loans. Are we looking at something more like $ 20 Billion? $25 Billion? I’m not a “build it at any cost because I want it, and I want it now, no questions asked” type of person. I want exact figures.

  • acemotel September 20, 2024 (8:17 pm)

    I can’t wait until we FINALLY have light rail n West Seattle! The people in opposition must have never lived in any of the civilized cities of the world with efficient and effective mass transit. It’s incredibly liberating to be able to get around without a car. I won’t even mention how unsustainable individual vehicles are in the long run.

  • DEFUND SOUND TRANSIT September 20, 2024 (8:27 pm)

    I hate to say we told you so, but…

  • 1994 September 20, 2024 (8:45 pm)

    Run the light rail further south, over the Duwamish river parallel to the First Ave S bridge and up the hill Myers Way to Olson Place, west along Roxbury, north on 35th to the Junction area. That could be a cheaper option to consider.  Metro can run those little buses all over West Seattle to get riders from the rail route closer to their homes.

    • RW September 21, 2024 (12:53 pm)

      I can’t imagine that building the WS light rail extension by the route you suggest (along First Ave S., up  Myers Way all the way to Roxbury would be cheaper. Far longer route and building up a hill more technically challenging.

  • Gary Richardson September 20, 2024 (10:04 pm)

    Features desired:1. Maximum Views-this means views of Downtown, Mount Rainier, Cascade and Olympic Mountain Range, and Elliott Bay.When we had the Alaskan Way Viaduct the views were fantastic and took your mind off the commute.2. Avoid Interferences-meaning no surface level routing which requires cars and rail having to stop for traffic signals.Essentially, use elevated tracks for views and tunnel elsewhere 3. Fewer Stops-the old express busses had fewer stops in key areas to get to and from Downtown quickly.This is a hard choice but I would scrap Avalon Station and upgrade the old Water Taxi Shuttle for Avalon people.Same goes for Morgan Junction. If extended, I’d rather see it stop at Fauntleroy and a South shuttle loop similar to the Water Taxi Shuttle serve Alaska Junction, Morgan Junction, Westwood Village, High Point, and Fauntleroy Ferry.With fewer stops and tunnels in  higher speed commute  between downtown .and home.4. Upgrade Ready-transitioning to a double decker light rail is possible with battery power and induction charging.The current tunnels are 14 foot diameter and the double decker busses fit in them already.No need for dangerous high voltage line exposure and ugly eye sore to look at. 

  • Kevin September 21, 2024 (12:44 am)

    Just get it built already what are we waiting for 

  • mygoodness September 21, 2024 (2:00 am)

    Just NO. That price is ridiculous. Schools, police force, homeless, drug treatment centers… so many places those dollars could go. Also screw Amazon for calling people back to work in the corporate office five days a week. Absolutely unnecessary, traffic snarl that is bad for the environment. Bezos should pay for this.

    • Derek September 21, 2024 (4:42 am)

      I’m enjoying Amazon calling people back for the sole purpose of congestion. I want people to realize how unsustainable their high pollutant private 8×4 box is as a transport device. One that takes on high debt and insurance to boot nowadays. Owning a car is the true money pit.

    • Tracey September 21, 2024 (7:16 am)

      I do believe the Amazon 5 day return to office order was pressured by city officials who want a vibrant downtown and people riding their buses or pet light rail projects.  It was not entirely driven by “productivity”.   A lot of buses were rerouted to support Amazonia in SLU and now the city wants it payback.  Lots behind the scenes in that RTO order. 

      • RayWest September 21, 2024 (2:21 pm)

        I think everyone’s comments about Amazon are spot on. The city probably is pressuring Amazon to RTO for a variety of reasons–to fill rerouted buses, and support other downtown enterprises (restaurants, coffee shops, service-oriented stores, and retail shops, etc.) to keep the sales tax revenue flowing. Also, to revitalize downtown with more foot traffic, encouraging people to stay after work hours for entertainment, socializing, dining, etc., though crime and homelessness has been an issue that keeps me away.

        • KM September 21, 2024 (3:02 pm)

          It’s an interesting discussion. Personally, I never found Downtown Seattle (not SLU) an exciting place after work–it always cleared out while everyone returned to their neighborhoods, even before the pandemic. Seattle neighborhood nightlife has always been where it’s at for me. Capitol Hill, Ballard, Columbia City, Fremont, etc. SLU isn’t an exciting nightlife destination either, there’s a lot of take out options, but other more traditional dining establishments weren’t as exciting–at least before the pandemic. Living in SLU, you can go work at Amazon, get take out dinner, and then log back into work at home. It’s really a gross what Amazon (and many other companies) expect from their employees. I’m not sure how many employees have time to socialize after work, not to mention those who have families to care for after work.

          • mygoodness September 22, 2024 (2:17 pm)

            I agree. SLU has become a soulless corporate campus. Just imagine if Amazon corporate employees were allowed to continue to work from home and invest that time and money in the wonderful neighborhoods you mention – restaurants, activity centers… not to mention time interacting with their families, friends, and neighbors. All that carbon from cars not being pumped into the air as well. If it only it wasn’t from ‘all the pressure from the city to RTO’ that this $3 trillion dollar organization just couldn’t withstand (sarcasm). 

        • mygoodness September 22, 2024 (2:11 pm)

          Amazon apologists out in full force, I see. We can continue to feel sorry for Amazon for benefitting from the increased revenue/marketshare they enjoyed during pandemic and then feeling pressured by the city to fill SLU restaurants after the pandemic is over or. We can say that they just have to call people back into the office five days a week to do jobs they have proven they can do just as effectively from home because of those city pressures.  OR we can realize that’s ridiculous. We know that WFO is better for families and the environment. It is absolutely better for traffic. We can recognize that Amazon was $30BL in the black last year, their largest shareholder – Bezos – has over $200BL in net worth personally.  We can recognize that they can open their wallets and help the city out a bit s we all adjust to post-pandemic times. The burden should not fall on already stretched non-billionaire families who have to pay taxes for better transportation systems, or deal with the added pressures of an unnecessary daily commute. And the burden should not fall on the environment that will suffer from car exhaust and track construction. 

  • LoveWS September 21, 2024 (8:32 am)

    I would proceed apace in segments to get the line up the hill. Once there’s light rail reaching West Seattle, people will use it in large numbers and transit-oriented development will coalesce around it.  The big barrier to alternative transport to/from West Seattle is the hill. Balducci’s words are wise with half the increased cost due to delay and labor/contractor capacity:

     it’s important to “understand what we can and can’t change … let’s get to work on what we can influence.”

    Make the inroad without delay: if we build it, they will come. Plan for bikes, shuttles and autonomous to access the station efficiently.  We can extend the line later.

  • Scarlett September 21, 2024 (8:37 am)

    I was just in Sacramento for a business trip and spent a few days in the leafy hipster, densely populated Midtown area which feels a lot like Portland,  gay-friendly, bars, restaurants, cannabis shops etc. etc.   Sacramento has light rail, as many cities do now, but I was struck by the sight of virtually empty stations, and trains rattling through Midtown with passengers you could count on one hand.  It as if light rail was purely decorative, a feel-good addition circulating through the city.  

    Light rail advocates have never been able to connect the dots between concepts that sound cool on paper and how they will come together to produce results; they have a list of cool ingredients (like “network”) but they don’t know how they will come together to bake the cake.  Midtown Sacramento seemingly has all the ingredients to make light rail work, including a pubic transportation friendly populace, but this vision never materializes.    

    Seattle may be slightly more sucessful because of its public transporation tradition, but only marginally so.  If one were to subtract the hustle and bustle of those going to and from SeaTac in the downtown tunnel, what would we be left with?  Certainly not the hustle and bustle of thousands of commuters.  

    Don’t kill the messenger – I’m relating what I observe and here and in other cities, including Los Angeles.   And I really don’t want to lecture supporters because I think their good intentions were exploited by those who know it isn’t a public transportation solution but a juicy capital shovel in the ground project they stand to profit from.  This is a money train, not a public transporation remedy.  

  • malcolm September 21, 2024 (9:01 am)

    a little over a billy a mile feels very reasonable! especially for an above ground train system! great job seattle, stellar leadership as always :)

  • Arbor Heights Resident September 22, 2024 (9:40 am)

    It is a ton of money, yeah. But that’s West Seattle for you- it’s hard to get here. You need to go through an industrial wasteland past huge concrete and steel plants, cross a Superfund site river, and then climb a super tall and steep hill. It’s a big bottleneck and it’s why it almost feels like a different city here. Going anywhere outside of West Seattle is kind of a paina lot of the time. The truth is that any transportation improvements to West Seattle will cost a ton of money. And the truth is also that those improvements are needed! One fifth of the Seattle population lives here, and is reliant upon an aging bridge which could absolutely get shut down again! So yeah, doing nothing isn’t really an option. West Seattle is worth it. My hope is that an outside funding source (state or federal) can be found to make this happen.

  • Scarlett September 22, 2024 (12:19 pm)

    i’ll speak plainly, it’s an obscene, even indecent, amount of money for simply another option in and out of West Seattle.  Remember,  for seven billion you’re getting only a passenger-only mode of transportation, not a road that can not only move cars, but transport vital supplies and services to WS, from the food on the shelf at the store, to the utility truck and workers coming to fix a downed line, to the emergency vehicle coming to render aid.    

    • K September 23, 2024 (7:35 am)

      Every time you emphasize “billion” you sound like Dr. Evil asking for One Million Dollars.  Big infrastructure projects cost billions.  This is not news, we all know that, and you don’t need to “educate” us on the difference between the letter “m” and the letter “b”.  Every person that takes the light rail is freeing up physical space on the WSB for transport vehicles bringing food and vital supplies to West Seattle, so they can get here faster.  Your “gotcha” is actually a pretty darn good argument FOR light rail.  It’s mass transit.  You’ll be okay.  

    • walkerws September 23, 2024 (7:36 am)

      Roads are still there to transport “vital supplies”. Passengers are people, and this is a great way to move people regardless of how much traffic is on roads. Cars are a cult.

  • Scarlett September 22, 2024 (12:57 pm)

    That we’re even debating a seven billion dollar light rail line to West Seattle is the definition of insanity.  But given that the entire world seems to have collectively lost it’s mind, so I don’t know why I should be surprised. 

  • Gaslit September 22, 2024 (9:46 pm)

    For all of the apologists trying to put lipstick on this pig. The only way that this will ever see the light of day is to get government out of the way, bid the project to the private sector and wait for true cost//timeframe. If not, put the new cost back out to a public vote and be prepared to accept the results. 

  • Kathy September 30, 2024 (10:20 am)

    Put the West Seattle Link on Delridge Way to replace the H line where it will see more ridership and serve more people who can’t afford a car. Let the people on the west more affluent side of the peninsula take feeder bus lines to the light rail

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