20 Replies to "FOLLOWUP: City 'optimistic' that Camp Long's fire-gutted lodge can be restored"

• Kt December 16, 2024 (1:58 pm)

  Great news

• Angie December 16, 2024 (2:33 pm)

  Promising – wonderful!

• Jort December 16, 2024 (6:01 pm)

  I really think cities like Seattle should look really hard at why it would take 3 to 4 years to even begin a re-construction project like this. Seriously. And I mean a really, really hard look. This is a nominally “progressive” city in a generally progressive state. Can we not do better than this? Can’t our government just … do better than this? Three to four years? Really? Does this need to take so long? If so, why? Can it be improved? Is anybody even asking these questions?  

  • WSB December 16, 2024 (6:10 pm)

    Yes, we ask those questions and will continue to. That’s a followup to this, which I rushed out because it was the first substantive reply in the multiple times I’ve asked about the lodge status sincethe fire.

    • Jort December 16, 2024 (9:48 pm)

      Thank you, WSB. I certainly appreciate your efforts. My exhortation for holding progressive government more accountable for actually delivering on results, particularly in the realm of public works projects, is meant to be broadly applied. If we rightly want people to believe that liberal cities are better places to live, we need to be in the business of delivering results. Any public servant or elected official who hears about a 3-4 year estimate to even begin construction (and, knowing Seattle Parks, that estimate will likely be doubled) should be asking some really tough questions about why it takes that long to get things done here. It’s absurd, and this building isn’t the only example of it.

      • Dr Wu December 17, 2024 (6:22 pm)

        Jort- You come across as a Republican. 

  • Josh December 16, 2024 (6:53 pm)

    We most certainly could do better than this. Especially if Rob Saka used the park or the camp house the way he and his family use Delridge to make unsafe left hand turns and use the fields adjacent to Fairmount for sports practice then you had better believe it would quickly become one of our districts funding priorities. But it’s obvious Rob does not personally benefit from a functioning Camp Long so he will not make it a priority. If only we had a council member who cared as much about our district and truly ethical governance as he does about his personal preferences. But hey, the sweeps are working right?

  • Eric1 December 16, 2024 (7:25 pm)

    I am not sure what you guys are whining about with construction time. I assume with the bitterness, you may not own homes and never had to remodel a house. But I am sure that if you did, it was done in under a year from thought to completion.  Suppose instead of a remodel, your house burned down do you still think you could do it even under three years?  What if you are not insured (I am assuming Seattle self insures).  So you need a loan?  Name me the bank that is going to loan me money “just because my house burned down and I need to rebuild it” as a reason?  So you pull out the old plans out and just rebuild.  Not really, you have to upgrade the building to comply with current code.  I am sure you have an architect on retainer who deals with historic buildings. After you come out with the plans in a record time, your ex-wife and new girlfriend disagree on wallpaper, bathroom fixtures, and the roof tiles. What if, to get the loan, your ex-mother-in-law needs to sign and is now in charge of disbursing funds because she wants it done ASAP so she can move back in under a year.  You still have to put your work out to bid with a 30 day open window to make it fair?   After you pay union wages and a rush the job fee, and dang you are 20% over budget and you have to ask ex-mother-in-law for more money because now she is pissed you are making the deadline but it is costing extra money. You guys should apply for city jobs because they got it easy.

    • Jort December 16, 2024 (9:53 pm)

      It is also a problem if it takes 3-4 years to rebuild a burned private home, too, if that delay is due to the city’s permitting and governance problems. Also, I’m not hearing “cost” as a factor with the lengthy rebuild estimates.  Why does it take so long? Why do we find this acceptable to the point that comments, like yours, are defensive about these kinds of timelines? “Maybe you should go work there” is not an answer to poor governance. 

      • 1994 December 16, 2024 (11:16 pm)

        Did you read all of the explanation?  There is no urgency to have it repaired & operational by next spring.  If it has historic designation there are specific rules that need to be followed for repairs. Seattleites are used to waiting for the government process to work itself out.  Get a little more Seattleite outlook going Jort.However, the full extent of the damage is still unknown. Because the stairs were destroyed, for example, we haven’t been able to access and assess the second floor. As we gain more access to the building and begin the stabilization work, we will learn more about the damage and restoration needs. Our team will assess the damage and develop options with cost estimates for restoration or other alternatives.  We aim to begin stabilization work as soon as possible. It will likely begin before the end of 2024 and go well into the first half of 2025.

    • KinesthesiaAmnesia December 18, 2024 (11:01 am)

      Eric1 posted, “I assume with the bitterness, you may not own homes and never had to remodel a house. But I am sure that if you did, it was done in under a year from thought to completion.  Suppose instead of a remodel, your house burned down…”Unfortunately I have got a little bit of experience in this. So I don’t need to suppose. My ranch house in Seattle burned to the rafters on an Easter. Very fortunate to have insurance rebuilt it in less than a year. Was probably done in 9 months even though it felt like 9 years. It was treated like an emergency replacement of what had already existed there. So we didn’t have to deal with architects, new plans and permits or reinventing the wheel. Which made it a little bit easier. But I would not wish any of that horrible housefire experience on anyone.Eric1 also posted, “After you come out with the plans in a record time, your ex-wife and new girlfriend disagree on wallpaper, bathroom fixtures, and the roof tiles,” which did not happen in my own instance of fire rebuild, or in the other fire stories I’ve encountered through my work in office & hospitality interiors, or my spouse’s work in single family real estate. For us, insurance made us match everything exactly as it was documented/listed on their records before the fire. Like we had wall to wall wool shag before the fire. Even though nobody had sold that brand or style of carpet since literally the Ford administration, insurance required us to match it or find the closest match. No funsies were had picking out what decor or roof style we wanted now. We could only replace exactly what had already been present and installed years before.We had quite a few males in the family that would have enjoyed weighing in on decor choices if that been allowed in the process. Like it doesn’t have to be an ex-wife or new girlfriend picking stuff out for a house. That does not sound very modern or helpful to anyone. If that was a real relationship being described then I’m very glad it’s not mine. Like the last thing I’d have wanted my loved ones to fight about in the horror of losing and rebuilding our home is wallpaper, especially if they don’t have ownership to do so. Like what rights would an ex have to decide on decor anyways unless *their* ex or a court were to grant it to them? Not that any of that really matters.What matters is we all love and miss Camp Long. My family has held and attended scout and school events, weddings and graduation parties there since before I was born. A lot of other Seattle families have made similar memories there. 4 years of waiting for the Seattle Process to maybe unfold seems like an unnecessarily long wait. Especially when as many posters noted, Saka seems to make magic happen instantly by removing a much needed traffic divider. Saka and all of the city govt needs to make that same magic happen for Camp Long.

• Meeee December 17, 2024 (5:43 am)

  I can only hope Saka’s support is as robust as his campaign was to remove a safety median.

• Scout Mom December 17, 2024 (7:04 am)

  The Girl Scouts hold their Summer day camp at Camp Long for two weeks every year. My kids LIVE for this camp. If Camp Long is inoperable for 3-4 years……I wonder what happens to this magical experience for our young scouts?

  • WSmom December 17, 2024 (10:07 pm)

    I can say that if we can convince the city to continue day camp we will have day camp.  It might mean we have day camp with porta potties and have to bring water in (which we did last year anyway).  There are many Girl Scout camps that have camp with far less infrastructure than what we have available.  We’ll have to see in coming months how things evolve.  There are many of us who absolutely love and adore our Girl Scout Day Camp and will do whatever we can to see it continue.

• anonyme December 17, 2024 (8:13 am)

  I agree with Jort.  The timeline is absurd, and will only serve to escalate costs.  I’m also highly suspicious of claims that the lack of stairs prohibits making damage estimates of the second floor.  Anyone ever hear of a  thing called a ladder?  I mean, they’re going to have to get up there somehow eventually – why not now?

• Vlad December 17, 2024 (11:23 am)

  During my time managing projects I would have estimated one year, but it shouldn’t take more than two years, even with a bureaucracy like Parks.  3-4 years painfully slow and, in addition to the time it takes to getting the building back in operation, it increases the cost of the work when it is stretched out.  We can do better than this.

• me December 17, 2024 (1:59 pm)

  Jort has a valid point, and I didn’t read that they expected it done yesterday, just questioning what takes up 3-4 years?  It does seem like the more “progressive” the city becomes the more process gets layered on, we should question that.  I’ve been on the inside (though not with parks) for almost 25 years, and am still perplexed and disappointed with the internal bureaucracy that keeps stacking up (its equally or more frustrating to deal with on the inside)  I also must say in defense of city employees (not necessarily the policy makers) that many people do not understand that there are years worth of projects you don’t know about waiting their turn before this “unplanned” major structural renovation got dropped in their laps.  And there is not a stable full of multi-skilled “Maytag men” just waiting around to fix any and all facets of any piece of infrastructure within the city and spearhead this sort of project delivery at a moments notice.  Is there too much bloat and process? -Yes! Are things more complicated than many people believe? – Yes!  Both things can be true.

• Conley December 17, 2024 (6:35 pm)

  Just curious. Could any body explain the difference in complexity here. Both damaged by fire. On hand we have a two story camp lodge of mainly stone exterior and normal wooden construction. Estimated time for restoration four to five years. On the other we have a church built of stone with arches and buttresses supporting the walls. Stained glass windows more for decoration than lighting. A bell tower. Actual time for restoration.Five year. The two main difference I see. 1)The interest from authorities or lack there of. 2) Money available

  • k December 17, 2024 (6:49 pm)

    Money available is a big one.  Catholic church is loaded.  Seattle Parks Department is not.  They are also accountable to taxpayers and local/state laws with regard to the bidding process and expenditures, and that slows things down.  And, yes, being an international tourist destination will definitely put a level of urgency on restoring something.  If the Space Needle were to have a major fire, extraordinary measures would be taken to restore it, because we need tourists’ tax money.  

  • WSmom December 17, 2024 (10:09 pm)

    Donations for the restoration of Notre Dame poured in so quickly that something like a week after the fire they had enough money to restore the cathedral completely.  And as much as I love Camp Long, it’s not Notre Dame.

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