73 Replies to "UPDATE: 1 to hospital after RV fire on Harbor Avenue"

• ARPigeonPoint February 26, 2023 (7:44 am)

  Oh, no. I hope the person will be okay. That’s horrible. 

• neighbor February 26, 2023 (8:14 am)

   We watched that RV and truckload full of pallets return yesterday afternoon. They were part of a caravan of several very overloaded vehicles traveling at about 15mph near Chelan Cafe. I’ve never seen such enormous loads of stuff being transported in that way. It was surprising things weren’t falling from their makeshift tie downs.

• flimflam February 26, 2023 (8:36 am)

  Yikes. Hope the person is ok – extremely painful injury.

• West Seattle Mad Sci Guy February 26, 2023 (8:55 am)

  Just curious. Are the pallets to build shelter? Or to be burned individually for heat?  Hope the person is alright. Burns are no joke. 

  • waikikigirl February 26, 2023 (10:15 am)

    There are companies that buy pallet boards so maybe these are/were for that purpose, to make some money

    • Randy February 26, 2023 (12:04 pm)

      The pallets are used to build shelters.

    • G-Man February 26, 2023 (1:49 pm)

      These pallets have zero value…who would buy them? Do a search on Craigslist, and there are endless ads for FREE pallets.

      • WiseWoman February 27, 2023 (4:03 pm)

        The pallets are bought from a company in kent anywhere from $2-5. Bucks each as long as no broken boards. People are too lazy to take them to Kent or don’t have means to transport so the homeless looking for money for their recreational activities keep them until some one with a truck can take them to Kent. In jungle they are burned also. 

  • Skipalapondo February 26, 2023 (10:20 am)

    I’ve wondered that too when driving past. Pallet wood isn’t really good for even makeshift building. The boards are too short for a proper wall or post, and the planks are difficult to detach without damaging. Still, with a rise in the price of lumber, it’s possible that even recycled pallets would have some resale value.The other option, that they’d be used for fuel, is possible, but then you’d expect to see the supply diminish and be replenished over time. It always seemed like the same size stack to me. And again, breaking down the pallets to burn is difficult and time consuming, and the heat they give off is inconsistent. It’s fine for a quick bonfire if you’re young and stupid, as I will admit to having been, but terrible if you’re trying to stay warm or cook food.My best guess is it was an unfortunate case of hoarding- someone saw abandoned pallets and thought, “why, who would throw this away? You could do all kinds of stuff with a few pallets!” And the nature of obsession caused it to snowball to the point where they had an illogical amount of pallets, but they were light enough to keep hauling around, so the owner justified keeping them, maybe in the hopes of selling the wood someday. All of this is just conjecture. I hope the owner is safe and the burn victim finds healing and comfort from our medical system.

    • winniegirl February 26, 2023 (12:00 pm)

      There is a secondary market for used pallets.  We have people picking them up daily from my work for resale.

    • ltfd February 26, 2023 (12:50 pm)

      The pallets are most often used as a “foundation” for tents, storage, etc. to stay elevated above the wet ground.

    • Scarlett February 26, 2023 (12:53 pm)

      Thank you for presenting your conjectures in a way that respects the RV owner.  I happen to agree that is likely a case of hoarding, something many of us have been guilty of though not  so publicly visible.  I too wish him a speedy recovery.  

    • Lola February 27, 2023 (7:33 am)

      We have people down here in Georgetown who use the Plts. to elevate their tents off the ground.  Or some try to build shelters out of them.  They tend to leave them behind when they have to move on. 

• Walt K. February 26, 2023 (9:26 am)

  This horrible accident is squarely on the city’s shoulders.  There are reasons the laws that prevent MOST of us from living this way exist: because it places people in undue danger from accidents just like this one.  There is no excuse for allowing people to live in dangerously unsafe conditions like this and the city needs to step up with enforcement to prevent more situations exactly like this one.

  • Olive February 26, 2023 (9:43 am)

    You ARE the city.  Why don’t YOU do something?

  • Alki resident February 26, 2023 (9:45 am)

    Where did it say this was an accident? There’s many reasons why a fire happened. 

    • WSB February 26, 2023 (11:43 am)

      It was an accident, per SFD’s investigation (just got that info & added above).

  • Amy February 26, 2023 (9:53 am)

    Enforcement wouldn’t keep people from needing to live like this. 

  • PSPS February 26, 2023 (10:33 am)

    If you decry “allowing people to live in dangerously unsafe conditions like this,” what’s your solution? If one has no money, do you start by not allowing them to … live? Poverty is the real problem here. Criminalizing poverty solves nothing.

    • KT February 26, 2023 (2:53 pm)

      “Poverty is the real problem here”.  Seriously?

      • Jethro Marx February 26, 2023 (6:49 pm)

        Yeah, seriously. Suffer from mental illness but have money/resources/family? You are far less likely to end up in a tent or stumbling around shouting at random stuff.

        Suffer from addiction but have the same? You are far more likely to get support that helps you deal with your addiction and change your life.

        Suffer from a compulsion to collect pallets or vehicles or whatever but own a home or property? You may still make an eyesore out of your place and struggle with normal relationships but you will have a few neighbors bummed about it and not every thoughtless dork who drives by.

        Many things that are complained about by commenters are symptoms of poverty, but are framed as life choices by someone who just didn’t have the gumption to pull themselves up by their non-existent bootstraps.

    • Thomas February 26, 2023 (7:26 pm)

      I would bet you the people in the RVs have been contacted dozens of times.This worn out scenario that they have no options is ridiculous!life would be better for everyone if they would accept the help.

      • Jethro Marx February 26, 2023 (8:29 pm)

        Sure, contact to say, here’s the address of a 8pm to 6am first come first serve shelter. (Usually includes bedbugs.) How about inpatient mental health beds? Weeks if you’re lucky, often months. How about stable subsidized housing? Often yearslong waitlists, and actually few tent or rv-dwellers qualify. It is very difficult to stay clean without stable housing. Not saying that justifies drugs, crime, or hazardous rvs, just that all you crowing about people not wanting help and the “homeless industrial complex” are wack. And ignorant of the scope of the problem. Average income of social workers is far below $50k a year.

        • askmehowiknow February 27, 2023 (1:26 am)

          When you say mentally ill with family don’t end up in tents, then you apparently don’t have first-hand experience. If you have a drug-addled, mentally ill child over 18 years old, then you cannot force them into treatment and they will go out when they want to do drugs and spend time in encampments with their so-called friends and leave you worrying about where they are because they traded the phone you gave them for drugs. So you just have to worry and wait and hope they come back home, just to go through the same ordeal again and again. Poverty isn’t their problem. The lax laws that allow them to continue their self-destructive behavior, without any way to force them into a healthier life, is the problem.

          If RV’s are forced to move more frequently and the stuff they store in the public spaces are cleared away (forcing them to store anything they want to keep inside their rigs) then maybe they would find it uncomfortable and accept help. Do you have the details of the shelter options these RV dwellers were offered? NONE of them accepted what was offered. Was it really so bad, or did they reject it because they don’t have any need to (since they can just continue living as they do in unsafe RV’s)?

          Periodic outreach has been ongoing for many months, and the concerted outreach effort started on Jan. 18. In the lead-up to the remediation work done today, a total of 10 individuals were engaged and offered shelter, and while none of the shelter offers were accepted, 

        • Jethro Marx February 27, 2023 (1:09 pm)

          I’m sorry you have had the firsthand experience you relate here, but I did not write what you seem to have taken away from my comment. I stand by my contention that a person with resources and a support network is far less likely to end up in a tent with no options (such as a family home to return to.) 

          This is a complex issue and uninformed, reflexive responses are futile. We are not a country that will force you to take meds, or live in an institution, or wear shoes in winter, or limit the number of children you have, or whatever other seemingly practical ways others think they could advise you to live better. 

          Sometimes others will make choices that negatively impact your life. Assume that goes both ways.

          As Miss Bennett tells us about rampant dissatisfaction with others, “…do not give way to feelings such as these. They will ruin your happiness. You do not make enough allowance for difference of situation and temper.”

        • Barton February 28, 2023 (7:45 am)

          I think askmehowiknow’s response was far more informed and better reasoned than your comments Jethro Marx.

  • Seems February 26, 2023 (10:33 am)

    Not to mention all the anti sweeps anti enforcement homeless “advocates” who lobby the city against taking action when someone is living in these conditions. See all the comments on the previous post on  regarding Harbor Ave for the typical “soft hearted advocates” who are all too happy to let people live in these conditions. 

    • Mr J February 26, 2023 (12:54 pm)

      Uh. Being anti-sweep doesn’t mean anyone you want people to live like this. The sweeps are harmful (remember these are some of are most vulnerable populations) and this street was swept the day before. It doesn’t work. Actual investment in housing and health are what we need. A decent temporary solution would be to allow lots with rv’s and provide some basic services and assistance to get people off the street. Shelters don’t work, hotel vouchers are band aids. We all want the same thing right? End homelessness… the difference is that some commenters on here have done the work and others just don’t want to see it.

      • 937 February 26, 2023 (2:22 pm)

        Some people do not WANT housing. They prefer to be allowed to live like this.How is this hard to understand? And why it allowed? Outreach is a real thing. Low barrier housing is a real thing. Before sweeps are enacted offers for shelter are made.With the passing of I-135 (by a margin of 15%, I forecast 8%) we should start seeing fewer RVs, right? Right?? No.

        • Mr J February 26, 2023 (5:28 pm)

          Cool maths. I don’t know why you’re getting roid rage at me. You’re trying to cherry pick information and pass it off as some universal truth. They barely offer assistance during sweeps and never follow-up it’s a disgraceful inhumane system. I must repeat I’m not for RV’s, but in light of no other solution out there I don’t think that it’s right to continue sweeping. I also offered a temp solution. You clearly don’t understand I-135. Do the work and stop listening to sound bites and trolling the comments with weak points. Housing is a human right we need more of it and faster. 

        • Admyrl Byrd February 28, 2023 (5:40 pm)

          IIRC there was 10+ offers of shelter and NO ONE accepted them.  They want to live like this and probably declined the shelter because, you know, you can’t take the pallets with you.  This event injured a person, cost the city money in response time – all for what – an over-tolerance of illegal parking, storage, heating in order to say we’re sympathetic of people’s plights?  Please

  • Derek February 26, 2023 (11:03 am)

    Build free housing. Only answer. Throwing people in jail doesn’t fix this.

    • Randy February 26, 2023 (12:06 pm)

      Housing is not “free”. Somebody has to pay for it.  You?

    • my two cents February 26, 2023 (12:38 pm)

      @Derek I can’t decide if I like your comments or the ones from Jort better to amuse me. Build free housing? who pays for it? upkeep?

    • ltfd February 26, 2023 (12:53 pm)

      Treatment first, Derek. “Housing-first” hasn’t stopped the drug overdoses that we respond to (or the overdose deaths) in “supportive” housing provided by the city and other social service groups.

      • Carson February 26, 2023 (3:07 pm)

        For the most part it’s not a housing issue but a mental health/addiction issue. Every single person unhoused has at some point been offered housing, either a shelter bed, apt, mini home, temporary hotel. There is one stipulation. You can’t get high there (most don’t allow drinking either)    Getting high is more important than housing. Until we can address that problem everything else is whack a mole. 

        • WS Res February 28, 2023 (6:43 pm)

          <i>Every single person unhoused has at some point been offered housing, either a shelter bed, apt, mini home, temporary hotel.<i>   Shelter beds are not housing.  Shelter beds are NOT housing. Look at this pic of Seattle cold weather shelter: Does this look like housing to you?  If you had the choice of an RV or this (plus being turfed out onto the street at 6am after possibly being robbed or assaulted in the night and having had your RV towed), which would you choose?

    • Duwanesque February 26, 2023 (5:18 pm)

      Like it or not Derek is correct. Housing is the only solution. Not shelter beds. Housing. Who pays for it? We all do through taxes. And guess what? It’s actually cheaper to house people than to sweep / jail / respond to them. No it’s not politically popular for obvious reasons but it’s a model that has proven to work (see Salt Lake City). Provide everyone with an option to be housed and stabilized and then you can immediately shut down tents & encampments without shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

      • K February 26, 2023 (8:27 pm)

        Also, building more housing lowers property taxes for those who already have houses.  It’s nearly impossible to explain this to people, as many remain firmly committed to their beliefs about how taxes are assessed no matter how clearly it’s explained on the county website, but building lots of housing will, in fact, lower your taxes.

        • 1994 February 27, 2023 (10:23 pm)

          Huh? More housing= more residents= more services needed. How can that lower property taxes?  Please explain. More residents means more funds needed to support the community, which means higher taxes. The taxes rarely, if ever, decrease.

    • Also John February 26, 2023 (8:21 pm)

      Derek…..    so I should sell my house, pocket the money at Charles Schwab and have the City give me a free house?!    I like your plan!!

      • K February 27, 2023 (6:54 am)

        Subsidized housing programs require documentation about income, expense, and assets.  Sorry to disrupt your fantasy about the homeless just getting free stuff all the time, but it doesn’t work that way.

• WS resident February 26, 2023 (9:39 am)

  One other risk factor to our neighborhoods regarding the multiple fires related to those RVs on Harbor Island is the fact that right where the fire is today used to be a garbage dump. There is massive methane underneath the soil that has an outlet near the double gates near the rock house that was saved. In addition, there is a great deal of fuel on site near terminal five. We could’ve had a huge explosion that would’ve quickly went up the Greenbelt and torched West Seattle on a grand scale. There is a very real fire hazard with these people and there has been multiple fires. Not just this. This is a risk to our entire community given the methane gas and multiple fuel locations adjacent to Harbor Avenue. 

• Liz February 26, 2023 (9:50 am)

  Alki Trail  not safe! 

• DBurns February 26, 2023 (10:09 am)

  Can only imagine how cold it is to live unsheltered right now – what a tragic outcome from just attempting to stay warm. 

  • Admyrl Byrd February 28, 2023 (5:41 pm)

    They were offered shelter.  That shelter had heat that didn’t involved unlicensed/not-to-code propane heating or burning pallets.  Who’s really to blame here?

• WSEenvironmentalist February 26, 2023 (10:16 am)

  We all hope for the safety and recovery of the injured party.  With that said,  this fire was directly accross the street from a multi-family condominium and the Harbor Ave utility lines.  We are so lucky that SFD has rapid response,  Having witnessed three of these extremely dangeous debris/chemical/flamible material fires on Harbor Ave during the past 40 months, we can state with certainty that our Harbor Ave neighborhood is under a constant threat from multiple dangers.  Maybe the arguement against the illegal camping and dwellings is not for the mayor, city council or SPD.  It may fall under the perview of the Seattle Fire Department.  I believe there are some laws/rules covering HAZMAT on public streets and within neighborhoods. 

• JL February 26, 2023 (10:17 am)

  Inevitable; sadly

• Alki Jack February 26, 2023 (10:57 am)

  Is there not a limit to how much you can park on the curb? Motorhomes, cars, trailers stacked super high with pallets. Where does this stop! There has to be a limit. He may be living in the motorhome, but no one is living in the rest of this junk heap.

  • Derek February 26, 2023 (11:59 am)

    Can you tell this to all my houses neighbors who have junk all over the place on the public street?

    • Yep February 26, 2023 (4:04 pm)

      Sure, there are rules regarding that too. Are they enforced is another q

    • Spooled February 26, 2023 (4:54 pm)

      Report it to SDCI.  “Outdoor Junk Storage” is the keyword to use.   Describe how the “Required Yard” is consumed with whatever unsightly material it is.  I highlight that RVs are not allowed parked in front, side, or within a certain number of feet of the rear property line.  Far more responsive than the find-it-fix-it joke of an app.  Even still, the city may take years to bring decisive action on the problem. 

• Sully February 26, 2023 (11:43 am)

  Hopefully the burned inhabitant survives. This is yet another reason that the city shouldn’t allow people to live like this—it’s inhumane, not just an eyesore for some. It’s unacceptable to let people live like this. 

• ltfd February 26, 2023 (12:55 pm)

  That makes over 70 “Encampment Fires” (tents, RV’s, makeshift shelters, etc.) that the fire department has responded to already this year.    

• just a thought February 26, 2023 (1:32 pm)

  Perhaps people use pallets under their tents to get them off the damp ground. 

• J February 26, 2023 (1:59 pm)

  I think the RV that burned might’ve just been filled with junk. “Pallet guy” has several vehicles, most of them loaded with junk. I think he lives in a newer model trailer, a long black and white one that looks to be in decent shape on the outside. After the sweep and pallet guy’s return I saw that vehicle closer to Salty’s, away from the now burned RV and the pallets. Agree with those concerns about fire dangers. My impression is this fellow is mentally ill. I’m not a professional, just an impression after seeing him day after day while passing by on the trail. We are possibly neglecting someone who needs real help. That “team” needs to step up outreach. 

  • 1994 February 26, 2023 (10:55 pm)

    The Seattle Times had an article a number of years ago on vehicle owners with outstanding parking tickets, owing thousands of dollars. The vehicle’s were old, as were the owners,  and probably no longer operable but the cars were used as storage depots for peoples stuff aka what looked like junk. There used to be some of these storage cars parked near the north end of Boeing field, old cars full of junk parked in the same spot for months on end.  The city allows these behaviors to become normalized, like living in ramshackle RVs that look like from Mad Max movies.

• Paul February 26, 2023 (2:22 pm)

  We all want homelessness to end that’s not a debate.  However what happens when repeat offenders continue to refuse housing because they have an addiction issue.  What could be a solution for this part of the problem. 

• Brother February 26, 2023 (2:27 pm)

  Anyone notice that this RV was pulling three (!) trailers? While it’s very sad that the person was badly burned, this could have been prevented by mental health evaluation and maybe even law enforcement. Pulling three trailers is both completely illegal, not to mention extremely dangerous. Anyone who would choose to do this at the complete disregard for people and traffic around them, is a candidate for mental health evaluation and intervention, not to mention a reckless driving arrest. I realize law enforcement and remediation of people in a housing crisis costs money… so when is city and state government going to start addressing these things in a meaningful way? Under the NEXT governor and mayor? Also, I personally am ok with RVs that do not trash the public right of way or endanger the public, and follow the laws of city parking. I’m also for safe RV lots. But it’s pretty obvious when you roll up on an RV where something is not right with the inhabitants. Three trailers is a really obvious sign. And so is hoarding and trashing of the medians and grass strips and sidewalks. 

• Compassionate Neighbor February 26, 2023 (2:36 pm)

  So sorry to hear this. Praying 🙏 for the injured and those traumatized by this fire. 

• RP February 26, 2023 (3:04 pm)

  This person was just displaced and forced to move their home under duress. It’s hard to imagine that *wasn’t* a contributing factor here.

  • flimflam February 26, 2023 (5:06 pm)

    So having to move a vehicle for a couple of days contributed to this fire? That makes no sense whatsoever…

• rob February 26, 2023 (3:55 pm)

   i’ll say it again, everyone keeps saying the cost of housing is to much for these people. the question should be how much can they afford?  Then maybe the  best solution would be to kick in the extra cash to put them in a place to live. Simple as that.

  • K February 26, 2023 (8:23 pm)

    The root of the issue is not enough housing.  Pricing is, by and large, driven by supply and demand.  More people fighting over fewer units drives up the price, so whoever is on the lower rungs of the pay scale will always lose in the bidding war.  By “kicking in extra cash” for some folks, you’d just be displacing someone else.  If there are 5 billionaires and only 3 houses, you’ll still have two homeless billionaires.

• Harbor Avenue Bicyclist February 26, 2023 (4:13 pm)

  I passed by the fire scene today. The RV was gutted out by the fire, but the trailer with the pallets is essentially unscathed. More depressing is the fact that that there are already five other RV’s/trailers back cluttering up Harbor Ave. Hasn’t it only been like three days since the sweep? (Three others are cluttering up Me-Kwa-Mooks Park , and the trash there is already starting to accumulate.) What a joke.

• Joe Z February 26, 2023 (8:02 pm)

  “Sweep” is a misnomer. The no parking signs go up a few days in advance and all of the drivable RVs are out of there long before any “sweeping” happens. Back when they were on Andover there would only be a few left when the “intervention” occurred. 

• Scubafrog February 26, 2023 (11:21 pm)

  This is awful, and I wish a quick recovery to the victim.  I’m glad Seattle voted for social housing, and I hope it’s quality housing that will make a real change for a lot of people “with mixed income, from 0% to 120%” – King County.

• marcus February 27, 2023 (7:09 am)

  Burns are really serious, I have heard so many horror stories
  about the burn unit.  I do hope he recovers.  Yet now there is a
  reason why dilapidated, unsafe, unlicensed, dangerous to the resident, dangerous
  to the general public and dangerous for the ecology RVs should not be allowed
  to reside on public property.  

• umbriamagnifico420 February 27, 2023 (8:10 am)

  It was only a matter of time. This is what happens when people aren’t able to take care of themselves. They need help to do that before we start talking about housing. Giving people a place to live does nothing, if they aren’t capable of taking care of it. Sadly, more tax dollars wasted to clean-up another mess.

• snowskier February 27, 2023 (10:39 am)

  Time to follow the NYC model and start involuntary confinement for these folks who can’t manage their mental health and drug issues.  They’ve been offered and declined shelter too many times, the RVs are back 3 days after the sweep.  Tough love is needed to break this cycle.  Allowing folks to desecrate an area because they can’t or won’t manage themselves in a civil manner isn’t good for anyone.

  • K February 27, 2023 (12:47 pm)

    Uh, that’s not what NYC does, but I’m all for adopting the real NYC plan!  Housing is considered a human right in New York so when they run out of shelter beds, rather than put people on a wait list they put them up in hotels.  Few people actually live on the streets because the city takes care of them.

    • Jay February 27, 2023 (2:55 pm)

      Long-term hotel rates can actually be pretty affordable as long as they’re not near an airport or convention center.

• Alki Pete February 27, 2023 (11:09 am)

  Many people refuse services/housing because it’s only a temporary solution and involves surrendering what they perceive as more secure housing, which is their car/RV, not to mention all their stuff. All the people who claim “housing isn’t the answer,” can’t see the simple truth before them. It’s like saying a drowning person doesn’t need any type of flotation device, they just need to swim harder. Most of these people do need more than housing, but safe, secure housing is the best place to start, and providing other necessary services right away is the best way to help them and make good use of our investment. Lastly, this is a feature of American capitalism. It’s a systemic failure. This is evident by the large numbers of people experiencing it.

Sorry, comment time is over.