FOLLOWUP: New street-safety signs on Alki Avenue

B October 11, 2022 (2:02 am)

As expected, one was bent sideways into the road last weekend. Do we stop and straighten it, or just go around? For the cost of constantly repairing/replacing these things, couldn’t we just hire the Seafair Clowns to direct traffic at each intersection? That’s like 8 clowns per weekend, they work for smiles and a few horn honks. Why are we not doing this?

bolo October 11, 2022 (10:30 am)

“Do we stop and straighten it, or just go around?”

Good question B. Based on experience with the similar spring-base simple white posts along the cycle route along Avalon Way SW, there are a sizeable number that have been knocked off their anchoring and scattered loose, generally laying in the cycle lane. Some of the taller ones are apparently permanently bent, leaning well into the cycle lane, impeding safe travel.

Morgan October 11, 2022 (6:38 am)

Ugly.we can do better…find other traffic calming interventions, please, and don’t just visually pollute one of cities best streets.

momosmom October 11, 2022 (9:27 am)

How can a densely populated City as Waikiki keep their street so much more visually pleasing than our Alki?
- Jeff October 11, 2022 (5:59 pm)
  
  I do not think that looks good, sorry. I prefer Alki over this. This is a resort town in Hawaii. And too much concrete. The buildings look like resort hotels which are ugly by default.
  - momosmom October 12, 2022 (7:03 am)
    
    Maybe because those concrete buildings look like Resort Hotels because they are Resort Hotels, Alki has concrete Condos all along the waterfront, is that really so beautiful and all those ugly power lines and streetlights that Waikiki doesn’t seem to need. Waikiki doesn’t seem to need to place speed humps and warning signs down the middle of their street(s) that there are pedestrians in the area??? Don’t understand why Seattle has turned into this ugly, ugly City!
- WestSeattleBadTakes October 12, 2022 (2:33 am)
  
  Waikiki is not the model of urbanism we should be following, talk about car infested.
Foop October 11, 2022 (1:57 pm)

I agree, ban cars from this street, stop polluting it, visually or otherwise!
- ReluctantDriver October 11, 2022 (2:46 pm)
  
  Banning cars (with the exception of local residents) is the obvious solution. But Seattle politicians are far too timid to make this happen. Instead of doing the thing that will actually make a difference, we rely on flimsy signs to try to remind scofflaw drivers to do the right thing. And we adopt hollow slogans like ‘vision zero’ without the courage to do what it takes to actually make our streets safe.
  - Jeff October 11, 2022 (6:00 pm)
    
    Banning cars would stop all my friends with cool classic cars from cruising Alki in the summer. I do not support this as this is a pastime of ours.
    - WestSeattleBadTakes October 12, 2022 (2:32 am)
      
      Your friends should go find some private property to do that on.
    - neighbor October 12, 2022 (8:22 am)
      
      Banning cars would stop cruisers, yes, but if this were a pedestrian street it could host permitted car shows and other events much more frequently. I’m not a fan of the cruisers, particularly those who like to out-noise each other or do donuts in the street, but love to see cars up close and chat with other enthusiasts at car shows.
- Morgan October 11, 2022 (3:34 pm)
  
  Facetious comment I get, but there’s better ways than plopping high maintenance yellow signs.

Jeepney October 11, 2022 (7:06 am)

Not a bad idea, now we just need SPD on Alki enforcing the laws.

marcus October 11, 2022 (7:35 am)

This is good! That entire commercial area is one big cross walk anyway. You can see the tire marks from the speed racers.

SLN October 11, 2022 (7:43 am)

Little steps toward progress. :)

Gina October 11, 2022 (7:57 am)

Cool! Moguls for the night races!

cjboffoli October 11, 2022 (8:13 am)

Put up all the signs you like. With little to no enforcement, and a culture with a strong aversion to personal responsibility, pedestrians will continue to be menaced by cars when attempting to cross the street. And even when someone IS hit, it seems there is a high likelihood that the car will just drive away with impunity.

WS resident October 11, 2022 (8:38 am)

Exactly. Why does SDOT act like every road and intersection is a unique issue that requires a different solution?? Sometimes it’s signs, sometimes speed signs, sometimes speed bumps, sometimes curb bulbs, sometimes pedestrian “half-signals”, sometimes elevated crosswalks, the list goes on and on. Other cities use evidence-based infrastructure to achieve vision zero. Can we stop throwing random things at the problem and just actually invest in things that work?
- Jort October 11, 2022 (2:36 pm)
  
  That’s because, when your primary mission is the speedy, unencumbered movement of as many vehicles as possible, there are only so many things in the bag of tricks you can do. SDOT is fundamentally unwilling to confront the 20th century mindset of street design and traffic safety. You can dance around the edges with road signs all you want, but if you truly want to save lives, then you are going to need to profoundly alter the fundamentally dangerous driving habits of your population through drastic changes in street design and urban planning. They can start, right this moment, with absolutely nothing standing in their way, period, by installing speed cameras as authorized by the state legislature. They can do it. Right now, right here, but they won’t, because it will hurt driver feelings.
  - anonyme October 12, 2022 (7:04 am)
    
    Jort, I’m with you 100%. Representatives from SDOT have said as much to me when queried about pedestrian safety issues. They have also repeatedly refused to address these specific issues by claiming that no action will be taken until a death occurs. The SDOT vision is to allow maximum traffic with no impediments like pesky pedestrians. ZERO vision.
- Morgan October 11, 2022 (3:36 pm)
  
  There’s many guidebooks for public works departments, but actually every street is unique. I like them to use judgment—this just shows grease to squeaky wheel service and nor forethought significant budgeting.

bill October 11, 2022 (8:30 am)

Shall we post the entire vehicle code at every intersection? That is what we are trending toward. Or we could bring back at least written tests for license renewal.

Ice October 11, 2022 (7:11 pm)

Based on the amount of times I have almost been hit by aggressive, out to lunch drivers who think they have the legal right of way at intersections, yes.
Socialcontract October 11, 2022 (7:51 pm)

100,000x this. I can’t even remember the last time I took a behind the wheel test to renew my license.

wetone October 11, 2022 (8:40 am)

SDOT can install all the signs and speed bumps they want, but reality is it will change little. Just as their Vision Zero program has had. In fact sense Vision Zero program has started its had opposite effects on intended purpose. If Seattle government and SPD wants a positive change at Alki and many other areas put a officer or 2 in these problem areas and write tickets. As someone that has been a resident of area for over 50+ years this had great results. Since the enforcement stoped this practice due to political BS, things have changed drastically. Go back to accountability for actions. Until city does, things will continue downhill slide. These signs and speed bumps just add to more distractions…….. resulting with more issues……….

Anne October 11, 2022 (10:04 am)

Right-that’s where we need to send LE-having them sit down at Alki & write tickets—-while we’re at it – why not send them to sit along every arterial designated 25 mph too-they’d be busy 24/7. Maybe these kinds of situations would be a perfect use of “ civilian monitors” Sitting around waiting to write tickets is not a good use of the LE resources we have right now–not until there are many more of them at least.
- bill October 11, 2022 (8:27 pm)
  
  Police should be deployed where the criminals are. Which currently happens to be the streets, and who happens to be drivers ignoring traffic laws.

Rico October 11, 2022 (8:45 am)

Sign, sign Everywhere a sign Blockin’ out the scenery Breakin’ my mind Do this, don’t do that Can’t you read the sign?

Lisab October 11, 2022 (11:06 pm)

Good one!!
waikikigirl October 12, 2022 (7:19 am)

@Rico, Haven’t heard that song in forever! So true isn’t it. And to Momosmo’s comments, I’d rather look at the concrete resort buildings than all the signs and… but that’s a given, look at my user name! LOL!! https://youtu.be/eU0P_TCHtMM

CarefulPedestrian October 11, 2022 (8:52 am)

There are already 26 traffic signs visible in the photo, and I don’t see any benefit to this additional blight.

Friend of kelp forests October 11, 2022 (9:16 am)

I had forgotten that cars have to stop for pedestrians. Glad the signs are up. I bet things sticking up in the road will slow drivers down. Maybe the colors can brighten your bitter days.

Jort October 11, 2022 (10:05 am)

Here we again see SDOT doing everything they possibly can to make our streets safer, except for anything that would actually make our streets safer. SDOT’s guiding principle is, “in any case where a driver might be actually inconvenienced, instead deploy a virtue-signaling road sign or a dorky marketing campaign.” It’s not like the solutions to traffic violence are hard to find: the rest of the developed world is well on its way to leaving America in the dust on this. The biggest difference is that other countries feel a moral responsibility to reduce preventable deaths and injuries. Meanwhile, SDOT and Seattle’s political “leaders,” instead, are cowards who are afraid that somebody in a community feedback meeting might yell at them for slowing down their commute an additional 17.8 seconds. There are easy, cheap solutions to Alki’s speeding problems. When this city’s “leaders” chose to have more courage than fear, we can implement them.

WestSeattleBadTakes October 11, 2022 (10:13 am)

If our citizens had the courage or sense, they’d demand much of this area be pedestrianized.

CarDriver October 11, 2022 (5:01 pm)

Ummm WSBT. Nobody. I repeat NOBODY has stopped you or anyone else from going to city/county/state chambers and demanding new laws and restrictions. Nobody. I repeat NOBODY has stopped you or anyone else from gathering signatures for an initiative petition to add new laws and restrictions. What’s stopping you? The reality that YOU and everyone else drives and aren’t “perfect” behind the wheel. You’ve figured out there’s no way to make laws that only apply to those “other” bad drivers and exempting yourselves.
- WestSeattleBadTakes October 12, 2022 (3:08 am)
  
  We don’t need law, we can use infrastructure. Enforcement cannot scale, instead you need let infrastructure enforce the right behavior.
  
  Hard to speed down a road if you’re concerned about messing up your vehicle. Even harder if you aren’t allowed to drive on it at all.
  
  Perfection isn’t required, we already know people aren’t perfect. That is why infrastructure is the answer, hence pedestrianize the area.
  
  But please, drop some more “wisdom” on us with no answers of your own because you refuse to put any thought into anything outside of law enforcement.
  - CarDriver October 13, 2022 (6:59 am)
    
    WSBT. My “wisdom”. If you use your “infrastructure enforcement” tell us how you expect emergency vehicles to respond in a timely fashion. Or do you expect them to walk so they don’t “mess up” their vehicles. Guess you don’t want roads accessible to busses either or will you happily pay more for maintenance to fix the “messed up” busses? A whole lot of people want and expect that they can get their food or packages delivered to their door. I take it that they don’t really need to be their either.
    - WestSeattleBadTakes October 14, 2022 (8:27 am)
      
      You do realize this is done in many places around the world right? There is no excuse for this level of ignorance.
      
      There is this thing called traffic filtering, super fun. In case you don’t read it, you can block cars while allowing other vehicles, even residents!
      https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2015/12/15/how-to-prevent-rat-running/
    - WestSeattleBadTakes October 14, 2022 (9:51 am)
      
      In the time it took you to ask these questions, you could have researched this and learned something. Nice strawmanning though.
      
      Retractable bollards. This post is 7 years old, technology has only improved since this time.
      
      https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2015/12/15/how-to-prevent-rat-running/
    - WestSeattleBadTakes October 14, 2022 (10:37 am)
      
      Some more information on how the Netherlands handles these:
      
      https://www.denhaag.nl/en/permits-and-exemptions/environmental-permits/exemption-for-retractable-traffic-barriers.htm

anonyme October 11, 2022 (10:14 am)

SDOT spends and spends and spends with no results, and then comes back to taxpayers and demands more money. The number of signs is becoming a hazardous distraction. Take all those wasted dollars and send out some cops to do traffic enforcement. Writing a big pile of tickets would not only save money wasted on worthless projects but bring in even more money to the city coffers. Win-win.

Friend O'Dinghus October 11, 2022 (10:19 am)

That photo says it all. Call someplace paradise, kiss it good bye.

Runner October 11, 2022 (10:56 am)

Police enforcement of the laws would be a much better way to get results. I was at Alki on Sunday for a nice walk and some dinner and was greeted by two different street vendors on Alki beach selling food and blasting their music at each other with the rest of us caught in between. Are these people licensed to be there at all? Alki is in need of a reliable police presence for traffic and all of the laws to ensure the safety and enjoyment of the area for all.

Admyrl Byrd October 11, 2022 (12:06 pm)

Now can we put some signs up saying “no robbing people in their cars” at Don Armeni?

bill October 11, 2022 (8:29 pm)

Admyrl Byrd wins the thread!

Mj October 11, 2022 (12:27 pm)

WS Resident – what use proven Traffic Engineering criteria instead of wasting limited resources on being PC?

Frankly, the signage is an eyesore to solve a problem in my experience does not exist, motorists in this area for the most part do in fact stop for pedestrians as required by law. I frequently cross the street at Alki and not once has a motorist not stopped!

Jort October 11, 2022 (2:20 pm)

Here, would you like to read something? You might have to stretch into your memory, this story is, after all, a whole two days old. https://westseattleblog.com/2022/10/reader-report-hit-run-driver-hits-bicyclist-on-alki/
- CarDriver October 11, 2022 (4:48 pm)
  
  Ummm Jort. If you read the story the bike rider was DELIBERATELY TARGETED. Tell us what signs or laws or road design would have prevented this????
- YES2WS October 11, 2022 (5:19 pm)
  
  @jort, So far from your memory that you forgot (or failed to comprehend) that this hit was intentional.

Also John October 11, 2022 (1:49 pm)

I look at this as positive. The majority of Seattle drivers don’t realize ‘the pedestrian has the right-of-way in all marked and unmarked intersections’. I couldn’t tell you how many times I’m at an intersection, a quarter of the way across the street and just waiting for a vehicle to stop for me.

Jimmy October 11, 2022 (3:38 pm)

These signs are extremely distracting to people trying to drive a car, Instead many drivers will be looking at the yellow signs instead of people actually attempting to crossing the street. Plus there is many other neighborhood that are dealing with the same issues and nothing has been done at all, not sure why Alki is getting all the improvements and other areas are totally ignored. Been driving Alki for over 40 years and I have never had issues of stopping for people trying to cross the street. These signs are butt ugly.

WSB October 11, 2022 (3:59 pm)

Whatever you think about the signs, other neighborhoods are not being “ignored.” As we’ve reported in detail, SDOT has installed myriad speed humps, pedestrian islands, curb bulbs, particularly as part of the “Home Zone” program during the bridge closure. The Alki signs and (two sets of) speed humps are actually somewhat late in the game.
- anonyme October 12, 2022 (7:10 am)
  
  Several speed bumps have been installed in Arbor Heights. As there are few curbed sidewalks, most drivers just swerve around them – creating an even more dangerous environment for pedestrians than before.