44 Replies to "UPDATE: West Seattle Corporate Center flag lowered, morning after protest note"

• Sevenless June 14, 2016 (8:40 pm)

  Seriously! They’ve had no problem swapping it for a gigantic 12th man flag in the past, so it’s clearly not too difficult to adjust.

• Sandal42 June 14, 2016 (8:40 pm)

  I don’t recall seeing it ever at half mast, would it drag on the ground. Wired that they have not even commented on the issue

  • AMD June 14, 2016 (10:08 pm)

    That’s what I thought as well.  Changing the flag is doable because it flies at the same height.  Is anyone sure they CAN lower it?  Bartell’s is definitely a company that cares about what happened in Orlando.  I have a really hard time imagining it’s not lowered just because of laziness or callousness.

    Hopefully they can explain the issue.

• Elisabeth June 14, 2016 (8:43 pm)

  I just sent them a message at their “Contact Us” at the bottom of their web site. I asked why they have ignored a presidential order. I said it looks like they do not support the LGBT community by their action. I said others have noticed this too, and asked them to respond to me. If they do, I will post it.

  • hj June 14, 2016 (8:56 pm)

    The order only applies to federal public spaces. The president can’t (yet) just go around ordering private citizens to do stuff. Is there even room to fly that flag half staff without hitting something?

• Elisabeth June 14, 2016 (9:39 pm)

  In my message to them I said that even lowering it a little bit would convey the message. The flag is huge and the pole is short, but there’s enough room to lower it 3 or 4 feet.

• Beach drive Guy June 14, 2016 (9:44 pm)

  Maybe try knocking on the door rather than posting a passive note.  

• Trish June 14, 2016 (10:17 pm)

  I’ve actually called the office twice. Left VM with my name and number and have not received a response.  Thank you WSB for helping to get an answer! 

• Elisabeth June 14, 2016 (10:46 pm)

  Beach Drive Guy, did YOU knock on the door?

• Alan June 14, 2016 (10:57 pm)

  Keep in mind that while the Bartell corporate offices are in the building and their name is on the building, it is not their building. They are just one of the leaseholders in the building. That doesn’t mean that they cannot have input on the flag, but they are not responsible for it.

  The building is owned and operated by Orion Commercial Partners. They would be the ones to contact.

  http://www.westseattlecc.com/contactus.htm

  • Joe Szilagyi June 15, 2016 (7:25 am)

    King County Parcel Viewer implies these guys own it?

    http://developmentservicesofamerica.com/contact.aspx

    • WSB June 15, 2016 (7:52 am)

      Yes, Development Services of America still owns it. (Was the corporate HQ for Services Group of America before the late Tom Stewart moved his company. Interesting history years before we started WSB so we don’t have archives, including the famed heliport battle.) Orion manages it.

    • Alan June 15, 2016 (8:49 am)

      Ah, I suspected as much. I’m not sure why I didn’t check the parcel viewer, except that it was late. I suspect that the property manager is the one to contact though. My main concern was that people seemed to believe it was Bartell’s. Having worked for a company that leased numerous buildings, I knew that having your name on it doesn’t generally tell you who operates it or even who the primary occupant is.

• John June 14, 2016 (11:27 pm)

  In response to those who feel that a private entity has to abide by the request of the president let me put the following in front of your eyes for consideration.

  This is not a matter of disrespect or being unpatriotic or dissent it has to do with the fact that someone within Orion Commercial partners ACTUALLY understands the regulations regarding lowering our nations flag to “half staff” 

  
  

  ” The president may order the flag to be flown at half-staff to mark the death of other
  officials, former officials, or foreign dignitaries. In addition to these occasions, the
  president “may” order half-staff display of the flag after other tragic events for one day only “

  That last sentence is very clear and dictates that no one except for those outlined as required by this regulation MUST fly their american flag at half staff, If one chooses not to lower their flag it is not disrespectful, it is not unpatriotic it IS a matter of free choice and choice alone. 

  It does not make any one person, entity, corporation or family who chooses to abide by the regulations governing our nations flag any less american any less patriotic and it sure as hell doesn’t warrant passive attitudes, or other self righteous anger regarding a sense of disrespect this ” note writer ” obviously felt.

  If we are going to start lowering the American flag to half staff for nearly every tragedy, or devastating scenario etc then why don’t we start by lowering it to half staff every single day for EVERY american service woman and man that has died to give us the freedom to do and say as we please even if it’s to leave a passive note at the site of a flag pole on property owned by a corporation who is NOT bound by the request of the POTUS!

  You can show respect, grieve and be patriotic but just don’t force me or anyone else to conform to your perception of what respect or patriotism looks like.

  • fauntleroy fairy June 15, 2016 (8:53 am)

    Bravo John.  

  • JC June 15, 2016 (8:58 am)

    Well said John!!

• ktrapp June 14, 2016 (11:46 pm)

  I’m going to also guess that with such a huge flag in the center of a parking lot, it’s probably not designed to be partially lowered at all.  The liability of having something like that be accidentally lowered too much and whip into cars and or people is probably too much.

  Also, if anyone called or emailed after normal business hours, or even just a little bit before normal closing time, keep in mind that this is still a relatively small company.  They’re not going to have people responding to phone calls or email comments at night.   They probably have a relatively small staff that deals with questions from the public.  And they deserve to go home to their families too!

• Community Member June 15, 2016 (6:08 am)

  @John – quite true that guidelines for flag etiquette are not binding laws on private citizens.  There are no laws preventing you from personally defining patriotism in a way that that lets you abuse the flag of the United States. It is indeed a matter of free choice. 

  But of course people, including the note writer, have every right to have an opinion that allows us to be critical of corporations who choose to ignore flag etiquette. Often, companies fly flags to try to cause the public to form a positive opinion about the company.  

  If a company wants the public to form an opinion based on their flying a giant flag, then, uh, yeah, of course the public is likely to form an opinion based on whether the company has the sense to follow flag etiquette.

  And as far as the rest of your post, you imply that you are quoting regulations, and somehow believe that our president is violating a flag regulation? Utter nonsense. The actual regulations http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf clearly state that the Presidential proclamations prescribe display of the flag. ” Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of
  America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules
  with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed
  Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and
  any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in a proclamation.”

• JW June 15, 2016 (6:39 am)

  Flying such a huge flag means that people are twice as likely to notice the statements that it makes. Like when you talk twice as loud as everyone else. Means you might ought take even more special notice of what you say.

• sc June 15, 2016 (7:25 am)

  I also noticed that Trader Joe’s flag has also not been lowered to half staff.

• West Sea Neighbor June 15, 2016 (7:38 am)

  Not sure if anyone else noticed, but I’ve noticed that the Starbucks corporate HQ in Sodo has a smaller flag that they use when flying half-staff, presumably because the full-sized flag might make contact with their roof.

• Shawn June 15, 2016 (7:51 am)

  Why don’t we focus on a real issue like gun control, racism, hate crimes, and equal rights for LGBTQIA individuals rather than debating how horrible a building is for not having a stupid flag at half-staff following an event caused by lack of gun control, and hate directed at the LGBTQIA community.

  • Fyourhomophobiafyourracismfyourguns June 15, 2016 (7:58 am)

    Thank you, Shawn.  I had to scroll down this far to find a reasonable comment.

  • Wes C. Addle June 15, 2016 (8:15 am)

    +1

  • quiz June 15, 2016 (12:20 pm)

    @Shawn – Amen.

• keden June 15, 2016 (8:45 am)

  I have seen that flag at half-staff before, so it’s definitely possible. 

• D.C June 15, 2016 (8:59 am)

  This discussion in the wake a tragedy is so very “Seattle.” A lot of passive/aggressive anger and angst over the inaction of a someone who didn’t do something optional that they may or may not even know about.

   

  We all need to grieve in our own ways. I hope everyone finds solace and comfort in whatever way they can. 

• patrick lamb June 15, 2016 (9:19 am)

  Hey all, I just spoke to the building manager. They are aware. Unfortunately, the Flag is too big to be lowered to half staff. They wish they could. 

• Tom June 15, 2016 (9:21 am)

  Seriously? This sounds like a Seinfeld bit. “Who does not wear the AIDS rrrrribbon?” Let’s focus more on how this lunatic was able to buy a semi-automatic weapon while having been on a terror watchlist. 

  • jason June 15, 2016 (11:57 am)

    Right!?!?!  Next thing you know, I’ll have to worry about street toughs trying to steal my antique armoire.

  • JKB June 15, 2016 (1:12 pm)

    Tough problem.  Apparently his work as a security guard required him to be evaluated by a shrink, which he passed.  So he was certified as not a lunatic, far more than most of us who are never evaluated.

    And I haven’t heard a word about him having a prior criminal record of any kind.  So here’s an American citizen with a clean record, buying something legally.  What grounds would one have denied him on?  And remember that most handguns are semiautomatic too.  

    Then he turns completely batsh-t.  I think that’s the piece we need to understand – how does that happen?  

• Barb June 15, 2016 (9:27 am)

  Good place for a PCC if you ask me.

• WSB June 15, 2016 (9:32 am)

  Co-publisher Patrick Sand is at the building – he was going to go in and ask the managers about this – and he says it appears to have just been lowered; he’s sending a photo, which I’ll add above … – Tracy

• JKB June 15, 2016 (11:38 am)

  It’s not “half-mast”.  Half-staff is correct.

  • WSB June 15, 2016 (11:47 am)

    Unless you’re on a boat. OR in certain countries where half-mast applies ashore as well – see the very end of this.

    http://blog.collinsflags.com/flag-etiquette/half-staff-versus-half-mast-which-is-correct

    • JKB June 15, 2016 (2:40 pm)

      Boat?  Different country?  No, we’re here on land in West Seattle.  With respect to the Collins Flags people, the actual flag code uses ‘half-staff’ everywhere, especially in para. 7m.   Obama’s proclamation this week specifies half-staff including for all naval vessels.

      No, it’s not the most critical issue in the modern world.  And it wouldn’t surprise me if the Navy has differing customary usage, even if that usage is technically incorrect.  

• watertowerjoey June 15, 2016 (12:09 pm)

  “Why don’t we focus on a real issue like gun control, racism, hate crimes, and equal rights for LGBTQIA individuals”

  
  

  You forgot radical muslim terrorists.

• I'm worried June 15, 2016 (12:10 pm)

  Now you’re going to debate what it’s called when the flag is lowered?! Sheesh!  I need a life..

• Elisabeth June 15, 2016 (6:42 pm)

  I heard back from Bartell re my email to them. Twice, in fact! In the first one they explained that they are just tenants in the building. In the followup they said “In follow up to our last email, we were finally able to successfully make contact with the property owners that control the building’s facilities and they agreed and have lowered the flag. Thanks for helping us to make this happen.”

  I am so proud of Bartell for pushing on this! And proud of those of us who took the time to try to do something about it. Our efforts worked! 

  
  

  
  

• Beach drive Guy June 15, 2016 (10:21 pm)

  Such wasted time on such a silly issue.  

• Angela June 15, 2016 (10:32 pm)

  Hooray for Development Services, Orion, Bartell and the WSB. I understand that this might seem trivial. Yet it’s a (literally) huge symbol in our community and symbols matter. People have died and been killed for symbols. While we can’t change laws, minds or history overnight, we can use our symbols to offer honor and respect for those lost. Thank you! 

• Elisabeth June 15, 2016 (11:06 pm)

  Angela, I wish I were as articulate as you are.

• Shawn June 17, 2016 (9:34 am)

  Interesting note. I have a friend who knows the lady who leaves these notes on stuff around west seattle. She can spot the lady’s handwriting easily at this point. She mentioned the lady’s name is Patricia and I realized in the article it was apparently sent to WSB from someone with that same name and a note about: She writes, “Obviously I’m not the only one offended”.

  I’m guessing she WAS the only one offended and used the note and the submission to WSB pretending to be a person who happened to find it already posted as a way to generate a sense of community outrage so it would be “news”.

• Community Member June 17, 2016 (11:15 am)

  Sean,  I’ve always been offended when a giant corporation attempts to appropriate our national symbols for their advertising, and then don’t even bother to adhere to common etiquette  guidelines for the use of those symbols. 

Sorry, comment time is over.