Occupy West Seattle says it'll rally in The Junction on Tuesday

Jim March 12, 2012 (7:31 am)

We have our accounts with Chase and they have always been very professional and helpful every time we’ve needed them. Also, my wife recently started a small business employing three people and the downtown Chase branch staff was extremely helpful, knowledgeable, and respectful in helping her confront (and solve) some of the financial challenges involved in creating jobs and providing paychecks to people. The level of respect and service that we get from Chase is by far better than what we get from the average West Seattle small business. They should be commended for their efforts.

I have nothing but disdain for the small-minded, narcissistic, juvenile perspective of the Occupy movement. The way they act out because of their inability to think with a little more depth just leaves a stain on our community.

But to the Chase employees in West Seattle and Downtown who actually show up every day with a smile and good attitude to work hard so they can pay their bills and support their families: thanks for the great service and professionalism that we have received from your bank.

To WSB: what is the criteria you use when deciding how to dole out bad publicity for local businesses and drive a wedge through the community? I’m sure you don’t feel compelled to publish every press release you receive and I’m sure that there are numerous causes to which you would not give a voice.

WSB March 12, 2012 (7:44 am)

Jim, this is an announcement of an event that might affect people in The Junction tomorrow afternoon. It’s not “bad publicity for local businesses.” Like it or hate it or don’t care about it, the Occupy movement nationwide has been newsworthy in a variety of ways, and the fact a group aligning itself with that movement is announcing a protest in West Seattle is newsworthy. – TR

Jim March 12, 2012 (7:51 am)

It’s not just announcing a protest – it’s targeting innocent people and their livelihoods. There’s nothing in the release justifying that. It’s propoganda.

Pman March 12, 2012 (8:18 am)

I have a hard time believing that West Seattle doesn’t already overwhelmingly vote in support of progressive policies. Why are we being occupied again?

Danny March 12, 2012 (8:28 am)

It’s one thing to announce an event. It’s another to post their ‘official’ announcement and propaganda. At least the event isn’t scheduled until 4PM, that way they all have time to get there after getting off work …. ‘getting off work’ … get it? I implied that they have jobs, which of course most ‘Occupiers’ don’t. It’s humorous for that reason.

Anne March 12, 2012 (8:29 am)

Jim-disagree-when I saw the headline my first thought was –what time is this happening? I need to go to the Junction-but will go earlier now.Have all the disdain you like-by the way-there is NOTHING in this post that “targets innocent people”folks have the right to protest & I’m glad I know about this one so I can avoid the Junction at 4 and a big thanks to WSB for posting this.By the way-I bank at Chase, too & this protest won’t change that.

Jason March 12, 2012 (8:30 am)

I am a participant in both occupy Seattle as well as the west Seattle neighborhood occupy group. In my opinion the intent of our rally tomorrow is to bring attention to the destructive practices JP Morgan Chase uses to wreak havoc on our local, national & international landscape. I personally have nothing against the employees working within our local chase branch, I am sure they are quite polite, respectful & helpful. They are most likely hard working folks that are just trying to get by in thIs world. My anger is not directed at them, and I hope that other participants tomorrow will not disrespect them at all. My problem is with the greater corporate beast that is JP Morgan Chase, that is why I will be protesting tomorrow. The group has agreed that thIs event will be a peaceful community picket. Just because your personal interactions have been good with our local branch, it does not mean that Chase as a whole should be allowed to continue to illegally foreclose on people’s homes, use tax loopholes to get out of paying their fair share, or take taxpayer bailOut money to give their high ranking officials rediculously large bonuses. So maybe it’s you sir that needs to think with a little more depth.

orca March 12, 2012 (8:38 am)

I agree that publishing the full propaganda issued by these people is really over the top. I agree also that the announcement that it was to take place is important and proper.
Why not publish the doctrine of all of the radical groups…both left and right.
Announce it is happening but don’t promote the ideology. Ask yourself if you would post the same type of “announcement” if it were the “West Seattle Tea Party” protesting?

Sigh March 12, 2012 (8:42 am)

Oh groan. The occupiers are obnoxious. I hope they leave their drug use, sexual assault, and public urination out of our neighborhood unlike at the campus they occupied in the past.
This hurts local businesses.

pgerding March 12, 2012 (8:42 am)

I’m sort of with Jim … and sort of with WSB/Anne. I totally agree that I want to know about the protest and its impact on community (traffic, business openings, etc). Thank you to WSB for keeping us all up to date.

However that can be done without reproducing their manifesto. That said, I’m an adult and I know how to skim over stuff. Better to have more information that I can use or ignore, than less to none to begin.

The most worrisome part is at the end: “fun for the whole family.” What? It’s going to be fun?

You are attempting to bring down or severely negatively impact a large business concern that employs many people and funds our economy. That is not “fun.” That has grave consequences.

Maybe it’s educational, maybe it’s instructive but categorizing this as fun just goes to show how warped these occupy people can be. They think all this is a game and fun and whoop-dee-do. Civil action is serious business, not childish fun.

Aman March 12, 2012 (8:46 am)

NICE to be able to exercise your human right to free speech be you a supporter or detractor of the Occupy Movement or a member of the fourth estate.

M March 12, 2012 (8:47 am)

Jason can you define what “fair share” means, especially since over 50% or americans pay no federal income tax? And can you give examples of “illegal” forclosures?

Jtk March 12, 2012 (8:47 am)

JP Morgan Chase is not the only bank doing all of the stated above…. why target ONE bank?… they are all crooked… but we all need somewhere to borrow from and keep our money eh?… It’s not like the Banks are going to go anywhere…. Picket all you want… at least I know what time it is at, so i can avoid the hub-bub…

Lachlan March 12, 2012 (8:53 am)

I see nothing that is propaganda in WSB’s post. It simply provides the who, what, where, when, and why- as it should. The only propaganda I’m seeing is in the comments, where it belongs. Everyone has their opinions on this issue. I’m just glad to know about it, so I can choose to avoid the area. Thank you, WSB!

Jeff March 12, 2012 (9:07 am)

If they want to make a difference, why not send some of the better groomed participants to meet with some reps from a local credit union, then work in a partnership to do a big rally where people can get help switching their banking to the credit union? It’s a win for the occupiers to make the bank lose business (and the ONLY protest that will make ANY difference), it’s a win for the credit union to get new customers, and it’s a win for the new credit union members (in my experience anyway). It just seems like that would be a LOT more productive in every single way.

Max March 12, 2012 (9:15 am)

Jim–Totally agree!!!
Jason– instead of blaming the bank, blame this administrations (and the last) policies that allow those “loopholes” to continue and use mine and your taxes to pay for it, as if that tax money is their own. Remember, the government has no money. It only takes money away from the working people and redistributes it as it sees fit. Socialistic if you ask me. You guys are just another movement wanting something for nothing. If you don’t like Chase bank, don’t bank there.

Gennessee Hill March 12, 2012 (9:15 am)

1) I have to agree – as an avid reader of the Blog and Chase banker – Publishing this “propaganda” does seem to trumpet political leanings and cast an unsubstantiated shadow on Chase.

2) Occupy = yesterday’s news – the incongruent nature of the “movement,” lack of any specific focus, and the perception, right or wrong, of the “movement” being made up of people-have-time-to-camp-in-public-parks-and-not-work-but-have-sour-grapes-about-“the-system” undermines its credibility…Seems like this is gasping for breath…

3) I’ll make sure to avoid the Junction tomorrow

Fansman March 12, 2012 (9:22 am)

Jim will change his tune when Chase drives his credit card rates to 29% for being 2 days late on a cc bill. Just saying.

Mike March 12, 2012 (9:35 am)

This is my neighborhood. I know they have the right to protest- but I am feeling this will be like the others- chaos and damage up on our local streets. I wish I could watch- but unlike the Occupiers- I have a job!

WSeaJenn March 12, 2012 (9:39 am)

The comments that Jason left arguing against Chase are vacuous and shows that he’s ill-educated about Chase’s contributions to Seattle and the economy.
Jason, spend your free time getting the facts straight instead of just jumping on an unrespected, disrespectful bandwagon. Here are some facts for you:
Chase is the 3d largest corporate philanthropist as ranked by the Puget Sound Business Journal. Think about all the large local companies who employ more than 10x the amount of people Chase does locally and protest THEM for not giving back to the community.
Chase is one of the most respected companies in America, as rated by business and community leaders. That ranking doesn’t come easily.
Chase also employs about 3,000 people here, and they all work hard to overcome the bad reputation that banks with poor risk models and poor leaders gave the entire industry.
I bank at Chase and I’m happy to do so. They are efficient, proactive in protecting my privacy, have great people, and great tools for their customers. I’m glad they’re in our neighborhood.

Jason March 12, 2012 (9:39 am)

M- Don’t know if links post in these comments, but here is one explaining around 56,000 foreclosures that were “robo” signed. These are foreclosures that were signed off on w/o even being reviewed by Chase employees.

http://www.businessinsider.com/jpmorgan-finds-56000-foreclosures-its-employees-didnt-read-and-is-forced-to-freeze-them-all-2010-9#ixzz1oDpuN4py

as for “paying their fair share” i do not have time to research the exact numbers right now, but google the question and you will find many answers as to the tax skirting that large corporations pratice.

As for targeting the “administrators” if you read the press release you will see that a bulk of our protest will be aimed at Dimon, the Chase CEO who over the last 5 years has raked in $109,960,000 despite being a the head of an institution that has taken 107 billion dollars in taxpayer funded bailouts.

As for those of you that are responding with childish “get a job” “want something for nothing” comments, you are coming off as un-informed. I for one have a great job, and pay all my taxes, all my bills, and am also active within my community, trying to make it a better place. We have been having regular weekly assemblies and i would say that 90% or more of the people at those meeting are employed or were employed until they reached retirement age. This is a response that clearly sounds to me as coming from the point of view of someone close minded, that has listened to Mainstream media poropaganda rather than doing their own research.

xo March 12, 2012 (9:40 am)

People need to wake up. The only propaganda they are seeing is in the corporate run newspapers. I applaud WSB for not hiding what the other papers wont run. The Occupy movement isn’t goIng anywhere and will swell to millions this spring and summer. Their message and delivery is in need of development but I look forward to a future organized politically savvy movement that can make them a viable force against the crushing politics of corporations and dirty banks. The bailout never should have happened. This isn’t a bunch of ‘spoiled brats’ this is a intelligent group of CONSCIOUS individuals calling b.s. and saying enough is enough. if you dig for your news which you must do now – its clear to see this isn’t a flash in the pan that’s going away. Bravo WS blog and Bravo Occupy.

AndrewsDad March 12, 2012 (9:40 am)

If you have a problem with Chase “not paying their fair share”, using tax loopholes, however you define that. If you have an issue with Chase taking bailout money, try picketing those who make the rules, those who provided the bailout money, Jim McDermott, Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell.

Jason March 12, 2012 (9:41 am)

Jeff- you are right one of the main things we will be at the chase bank to do is to provide their customers with local bank and credit union information. We have been in contact with many local banks that are allowing us to hand out info on their institutions, as alternatives to the mega banks that have no interest in our communities.

Kayleigh March 12, 2012 (9:42 am)

I’m wondering how many of these commenters are paid shills on the GOP dole. Defending Chase bank? Seriously? What decade are you living in, 1950? Chase is being investigated under RICO laws.
.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/13/1016701/-JP-Morgan-Chase-accused-of-nationalized-fraud-in-civil-RICO-suit-update-
.
If you don’t like the Occupy movement, feel free to decline any benefits they may directly or indirectly earn for you and continue to support the insane wealth inequality that the U.S. now enjoys.

Neighbor March 12, 2012 (9:48 am)

It’s amazing to see just how many armchair patriots we have here in West Seattle. Democracy is action, it requires participation. Chase and other corporations like them have almost brought this country to it’s knees yet there are some here on this board that would have us believe in their altruism. These banks reaped record profits for years making illegal transactions then required taxpayer bailouts all the while paying their staff record bonuses. They then kept the government funds they received instead of using them to lend to small business and homeowners. Stop defending corporations that are threatening our democracy. Our country needs a Constitutional amendment which clearly states that corporations are not and never will be equal to you and I, living breathing people.
For those of you who have listened to all the Fox news propaganda about the demographics of the Occupiers I suggest you educate yourselves. The average Occupier is actually employed with a higher education. They love this country and want a vibrant democracy, how could one possibly have issue with that?

W March 12, 2012 (9:52 am)

Ruffled some feathers WSB? Got your hands full this time huh?

Terry March 12, 2012 (10:01 am)

Please tell me there will be a porta potty.

Jtk March 12, 2012 (10:08 am)

Again, If it’s ON the INTERNET, it MUST be true….(those posting links) Unless it’s from an IRS or Government website… it’s more than likely Here-say…

ALSO, again, It’s not just ONE bank.. it’s ALL banks…
and AGAIN, The banks are controlled by the Government…

Attacking Chase Bank in West Seattle will not solve ONE thing…

Go to Washington DC… they are the ones getting rich!…

I am happy to avoid the Junction Tomorrow.. … this will accomplish nothing except chaos…

And YES, I vote for a port-a-john as well!!!..

Jason March 12, 2012 (10:19 am)

Jtk it’s actually the government that is run by the banks and corporations not the other way around.

Dina March 12, 2012 (10:28 am)

If critical commentors didn’t avoid the demonstration, they’d see how many who support Occupy are middle-aged and senior citizens — informed, idealistic and committed activists making a statement. Not spoiled, dirty effin hippies with nothing better to do (culture wars from the 60s still alive).

Plenty of room for disagreement about tactics, message or effectiveness. I respect that.

But smears based on stereotypes broadcast by the media and rightwing radio, that’s lazy and uninformed.

sparker March 12, 2012 (10:31 am)

I will avoid the Junction whenever there is an “occupy” notice of gathering; what a shame for the merchants and employees who are just trying to earn a living!

Danny March 12, 2012 (10:39 am)

“I’m wondering how many of these commenters are paid shills on the GOP dole. Defending Chase bank? Seriously? What decade are you living in, 1950? ”

Haha, wow have to love the kooky conspiracy theorists. This type of commentary is not a credit to your ‘movement.’

Make sure to bring your tin foil hats so that the Tea Party and their war machine don’t read your thoughts, or whatever other crap you guys think.

AlkiObserver March 12, 2012 (10:44 am)

While I personally find the disruptive efforts of the Occupy Movement detracting to their own stated goals, I totally support the rights of free speech, peaceful protest as well as, the capitalist system (warts and all). Anyway, regarding other comments in the thread, I don’t think their press release needed to be posted in its entirety in order to get the necessary warning/facts out to Junction residents, workers and visitors. Sending wishes for all to be kind to each and live abundantly.

Wssw March 12, 2012 (10:47 am)

As usual, the occupy message is on point and really resonates with me. Why are you protesting? Um…other people are doing it in Atlanta, it’s a corporate ceo’s birthday, and we are showing solidarity for 5 other idiots who were arrested (rightly) for chaining themselves together in a branch a few months ago. Seriously? That’s your statement? I’m not right wing, but that sounds stupid.

AlkiObserver March 12, 2012 (11:00 am)

@Wssw: Great point about the 5 Idiots. Spot on.

Ian Awesome March 12, 2012 (11:04 am)

I think it’s funny that someone identified a huge financial giant as a “local business.” Yeah. A local business where each dollar you give them ends up leaving the community and landing in the pockets of billionaires on the other side of the country.

M March 12, 2012 (11:10 am)

LOL Ian – it WAS a local bank until the locals who ran it screwed it up so badly it needed a bailout (WAMU – remember?) Chase did it a favor, and kept some very local employees working.

Terry March 12, 2012 (11:16 am)

I’m just excited for the bongo jam.

alex March 12, 2012 (11:28 am)

Kayleigh posts about the Movement “feel free to decline any benefits they may directly or indirectly earn for you and continue to support the insane wealth inequality that the U.S. now enjoys.”

Can you educate me? What benefits are you referring to? From what I can tell, the Movement has cost me money – my taxes were used for police overtime and clean up of the Occupy mess.

Now I do have a strong resentment that 1/2 of the country’s households does not pay federal income income tax and are the lucky recipients of billions in Earned Income Tax Credits. If you want to talk how those 50% should be paying tax, e.g., equity, I’ll come down and join you.

Jason March 12, 2012 (11:32 am)

M they also immediately fired 3400 employees in our state immediately after doing wamu a “favor”

And it was actually you and I that did “favors” by bailing out banks that directly caused the near financial collapse of our country. Remember?

sven March 12, 2012 (11:53 am)

I never understood the idea of protesting the business. The business is only enabled by the government that creates the legal environment that allows it to do stupid things and get bailed out when it fails.

Our elected officials (who, granted, are likely bought and paid for by the businesses being protested) are the problem. We need to vote out the Ds and the Rs and start over, because both sides of the aisle are corrupted by the $s.

Max March 12, 2012 (12:09 pm)

Jason, — My point exactly. Chase CEO raked in $109,960,000! So WHY did this and the last administration bail them out with my money!!! Occupy should be in DC protesting an administration that encourages class warfare against the wealthy and at the same time bails out corporations for their bad business practices.

West seattler March 12, 2012 (12:22 pm)

Seems if you wanted to send a message to Chase you should protest at their HQ office, not the little branch in our neighborhood filled with average people who are also just trying to make ends meet. Good grief.

Drew March 12, 2012 (1:13 pm)

Ugh. Occupy a job and leave the Junction alone.

Jason March 12, 2012 (1:15 pm)

Max if you think occupy groups aren’t protesting our elected officials in addition to corporations that buy & sell them then you just aren’t paying attention. There are plenty of protests against local and state and national politicians going on weekly around this country. There is also a large push within the occupy movement to go thru the proper channels of changing things by doing things like overturning citizens united and reinstating glass steagal. I don’t know about you but every time I write a letter or shoot off an email to my elected officials they go mostly ignored. No matter what the people of America want we seemingly get ignored and our govt panders to those that buy them off. Until extreme reform or a complete overthrowing of the system as it stands happens we will continue to have our needs put on the back burner in favor Of the needs of big business. When we take to the streets to protest these injustices we are trying a different approach to have our voices heard. It may not work, but it’s better than sitting around doing nothing. History has proven that PEACEFUL protest can indeed change things.

clark5080 March 12, 2012 (1:18 pm)

I wonder if Apple pays their fair share?

Charlestown Ave March 12, 2012 (1:23 pm)

I’m going to protest the protest. What a waste of time and energy.

seatown March 12, 2012 (1:46 pm)

http://www.thrivemovement.com/thrive-movie-foster-gamble-liberty-democracy-and-occupy.blog

This is a better view of Occupy nationally than what I think we get from the media covering the police clashes. We get a very negative skewed view of the movement from these protests and the media. Mr Gamble (of the Proctor & Gamble family) talks about his view of speaking at a recent conference in Olympia and how the face of Occupy is really all walks of life. The front line protesters are not the whole story.

jedifarfy March 12, 2012 (1:49 pm)

Wow, someone slap me before I become so cynical and turn on the rude. What is happening here?

THANK YOU, WSB, for providing us this information. I like to know what is happening in my community, no matter what it is.

Kate K March 12, 2012 (1:49 pm)

I’ve got news for you – the Occupy movement is just beginning. Think of it as a rights movement for the 99%. Protests are a way to get attention for the cause.

All the big banks were a part of crashing our economy which resulted in massive job loss, people losing their homes, etc. I know many hard-working people that have lost so much through no fault of their own. It’s a tragedy that didn’t need to happen.

And at the last Occupy West Seattle meeting I went to the average age was around 50, all respectable looking citizens wanting to create positive change. Let go of your stereotypes and go see for yourself before you judge.

shakes57 March 12, 2012 (1:52 pm)

I hope they’re all arrested, and I’ll gladly look the other way if SPD deems it necessary to provide “physical motivation” to any of them.

Truth-sayer March 12, 2012 (1:57 pm)

These ‘Occupy’ idiots simply don’t have a clue.

They ARE the reason why the economy tanked. When your overspending, your unwillingness to work for what you buy, and your misuse of credit cause your own economic downfall, you don’t blame the person next door who lived within his means.

Granted it may only BE “one percent” of society who truly live within their means, but why won’t the rest look in the mirror and place the blame where it belongs, instead of gathering and rallying to express group envy?

At least show enough common sense to recognize and label it “group envy” when you gather to subject others to your woeful and pitiful present-day state.

YOU brought this upon yourselves, fools!!!

Akdawg March 12, 2012 (2:01 pm)

In Jason’s OPINION the intent of the rally is….The rest of the occupiers will have their opinions as well which really does suggest the movement has no congruous message; just look at that band of knuckleheads that were holed up SSCC that had NO idea why they were there and did nothing but cost the school $$. Get jobs and contribute. Shesh!

Dina March 12, 2012 (2:11 pm)

Truthsayer? I call bullsh*t on every line of your post. Censor me if you must, WSB. ENVY of the rich and powerful is the biggest problem this country faces? And the reason the economy tanked?

I DO respect differing opinions, but I can’t think of a polite way to address this steaming load.

Max March 12, 2012 (2:16 pm)

Yes Jason, I agree with about half of what you say, but I disagree with occupies approach. And yes, I hope it stays peaceful. Trouble is, there are those in your movement that will cause violence, if for no other reason than to grab headlines. The movement is tailor-made for anarchists.

AndrewsDad March 12, 2012 (2:17 pm)

Can someone explain to me what protesting at a branch in West Seattle is going to accomplish? Also any list of previous protests against McDermott, Murray and Cantwell would be appreciated.

Tuesday March 12, 2012 (2:51 pm)

I’m with whomever said we need to get rid of both Democrats and Republicans in congress. The name calling is ridiculous because they’re all doing the same thing. Lets start looking realistically at libertarian candidates like Ron Paul who are for personal freedom, against needless wars, global policing, corporate bailouts and entities like The Fed that do nothing but attempt to manipulate the economy … ultimately to the economy’s detriment.

To blame people that take bazillions of dollars when offered is weird. Probably if someone offered you money, you would take it and do whatever you wanted with it. I would. If you hate corporations being bailed out, blame the people that voted to use YOUR tax money to do it. I do. Obama and Bush are the same. Same wars, same ridiculous deficit spending, same bailouts.

Question March 12, 2012 (2:58 pm)

So let me see if I got this right? The occupy west Seattle people are handing out pamphlets to local banks because banks like jp Morgan are bad? You mean small savings and loan like a little local company called Washington mutual. That started right here and through fraud and idiocy managed to go under? Like watermark credit union or sterling savings both of whom are local banks that had to be sold or given a large capital infusion to keep going.

Chase bought the assets of wamu from FDIC. It technically failed. And thanks to dimon depositors of that bank didn’t miss a beat. Chase was one of the few banks that didn’t want TARP money from the government. And as soon as the federal reserve allowed they paid it all back. The us taxpayers actually made a chunk of money on the forced loan to chase. But hey don’t let facts get in your way.

Jamie dimon is the devil, chase is the devil, let’s go hand out pamphlets to banks that are smaller cause smaller banks have never done anything wrong to the community (apparently you all were asleep in the 80’s with the s and l’s), and let’s go yell.

If you want something to yell about go to the former head if wamu’s house. He is the one who should be in jail.

Mike March 12, 2012 (3:07 pm)

Obviously it is to raise public awareness, which occurred because so many people became illogically upset over the first-amendment rights of the protesters, WSB’s announcement of the protest, and the peaceful assembly.

I have no problems with the Occupy movement, their protest’s and message are generally right on par with the concerns of the average citizen.

Thank you TR/WSB for keeping all of us informed about the goings-on in our community.

Dina March 12, 2012 (3:08 pm)

AndrewsDad, I recall the West Seattle Neighbors for Peace and Justice protesting Senator Cantwell’s (and Hillary Clinton’s when she was in town) pro-Iraq war stance a number of times. We also organized a group meeting with her staff in her Seattle office. The staffers listened to each of our statements, then were frank in responding: Don’t hold your breath waiting for her to change her position.

Cantwell’s last public word on the subject, in 2006 I believe, was “No Regrets” on her part. Since then, nothing.

DC West March 12, 2012 (3:16 pm)

To all of you that are against the occupy movement, you must wear blinders every day of your life. This isnt just bums with nothing better to do. this is everyday people that work hard, from all walks of life, that are fed up with all the political BS and corporate favoritism. Do you even realize that corporations have been given the same rights as flesh and blood humans but are immune to the laws and regulations that we live with. the corporations have one job and one job only, to make money and increase value for their shareholders.

To jim, open your eyes and stop thinking in such small terms. this protest is not about the local employees, its about chase as a whole as well as other negligent corporations. how can you fault someone who wants to own a home, is told they can afford it, and then after signing the papers is told that “oh you cant afford these payments and by the way the value of your home is nowhere near what it was when you bought it.”

Im 25, i havent protested before but i am planning on attending this one. I love the USA and want it to prosper long after im gone, but the way we are going right now will bring us down to a crashing hault. spread love, capitalism (true capitalism with no bailouts), and democracy if you want a fair shot at the “American Dream”

phil dirt March 12, 2012 (3:37 pm)

Hey Occupy meatheads, why don’t you occupy and protest McDermutt’s, Murray’s and Cantwell’s offices? They voted for the bailouts!

JoAnne March 12, 2012 (3:49 pm)

I am starting a new movement.
Occupy Occupy West Seattle.

We will rise up against obnoxious occupy movements everywhere and in particular will protest their coming to West Seattle.

AndrewsDad March 12, 2012 (3:52 pm)

Dina,

Thanks for the response. So there were Iraq war protests… but no Occupy related protests against Murray, Cantwell and McDermott.

Just one question, did the West Seattle Neighbors for Peace and Justice to anything about getting Senator Cantwell voted out of office? If not, why not?

Jason March 12, 2012 (3:54 pm)

I love how all the uninformed “meatheads” assume occupy is a liberal or democratic party offshoot. Sure there are some occupiers that will inevitably vote dems, as well as some that will vote republican. For the most part the occupiers I know think both parties are corrupt, and we need a compete overhaul of the capitalist two party system. I personally am an equal opportunity hater, I dislike the track record of both political parties, and protest all of them that continue to be bought and sold by big money. To assume we are all McDermott lovers or obama homers is an insult, of course some of you seem only to be posting in this thread to insult people whose OPINIONS differ from yours.

Dina March 12, 2012 (4:05 pm)

AndrewsDad,
“Occupy” has only been in existence anywhere since last fall (starting in New York City, I believe). As far as I can tell, demonstrators protest the glaring inequities of the entire U.S. electoral and economic system — not any one party, elected official, or candidate.

About Cantwell: it is EXTREMELY difficult to vote out an incumbent Senator. A Senator has the support of their party’s apparatus and wide name recognition. And they are only up for election every 6 years.

Many of the Neighbors for Peace & Justice supported an anti-war Primary challenger (a veteran) in her last election. I contributed campaign graphics and publicity — I wanted her to at least worry about the Primary. But the challenger was not a strong enough candidate to overcome her advantages.

WsBoB March 12, 2012 (4:18 pm)

Thank you WSB for posting the info. Besides letting residents know about the protest in The Junction, they can either show up or stay clear, you have opened a dialogue that people feel strongly about. I am all for protests as long as they stay peaceful and respect others. Thats America and Democracy. All I would suggest to everyone is keep an open mind. Read as much as you can on both sides. We are definitely in difficult times. We need to know what our Govt is doing more than ever. “God save the Queen!”

kg March 12, 2012 (4:21 pm)

Will there be port-a-potties or will the surrounding businesses need to close up early?

Dunno March 12, 2012 (5:09 pm)

After reading all this I feel terrible that I’m a shareholder in this evil bank. I had no idea the bank foreclosed on homes that were not being paid for! I only have a few shares but feel like a heel. Please yell at that building for me and even make a sign or two that Dunno sucks! I just didn’t know.

Question March 12, 2012 (5:10 pm)

If the public isn’t aware by now then they have been living in whole somewhere for the last 3 years, what’s the saying “a fool And his money are easily parted.”

Dunno March 12, 2012 (5:39 pm)

What’s really ticking me off is the over $4 a gallon gas that blew a hole in my wallet today! Wish I could ride the bus to my bank job in Maltby.

carlton March 12, 2012 (5:59 pm)

I work for a corporate company and they put food on my table. No complaints by me…)

Tuesday March 12, 2012 (6:07 pm)

[how can you fault someone who wants to own a home, is told they can afford it, and then after signing the papers is told that “oh you cant afford these payments and by the way the value of your home is nowhere near what it was when you bought it.”] See, I think you can pretty easily fault someone for that. Is it not a personal responsibility to determine whether or not I can afford something? Just because a lending institution will give you a gazillion dollars in loans doesn’t mean you can afford the corresponding monthly payment. (Nor is it the burden of the lending institution to make sure the housing market never goes down.) It’s pretty easy to determine what a person can afford for housing. I make this much money, my expenses are X, the money remaining for housing each month is Y… it’s math, people, not rocket science. Our family doesn’t own a home. We don’t because we’re waiting until we can afford one and are willing to take on the massive responsibility that is home ownership. And no one can determine what we can afford except us. Fraudulent, predatory lending is one thing. That is unacceptable. However, expecting people to have life handed to them on a platter with no required planning on their part is ridiculous. I don’t expect anyone to think for me. Doing so would be a recipe for bad decisions and even worse outcomes. The more we require people to be personally responsible the better.

KD March 12, 2012 (6:12 pm)

“fun for the whole family”‘????? that’s FUNny

snowball March 12, 2012 (6:12 pm)

I love how once again Occupy plans their events right at the time people get off work to they make rush hour even worse than it already is – backing up traffic and making buses late, and once again negatively impacting the majority of the people they purport to represent.

Rusty March 12, 2012 (6:17 pm)

Is this movement still going on? I thought that not even one protester could articulate what the movement wanted, and everyone kind of wandered off to hug a rainbow.

KD March 12, 2012 (6:38 pm)

Rusty – Tee Hee Hee… THAT was FUNny!

waterworld March 12, 2012 (6:49 pm)

Thank you WSB for publishing the notice of this event and including, as you often do, the complete text of the organizers’ notice of the event. I am surprised and disappointed to see folks chiding WSB for publishing the notice or suggesting it should have been reduced to some bare minimum so as not to spread evil “propaganda” and “manifestos.”

I am also perplexed by the vitriol directed at people associated with Occupy. Stuff like “small-minded, narcissistic, juvenile,” “their drug use, sexual assault, and public urination,” “I hope they are all arrested,” and that SPD beats them up? I wasn’t thinking of attending this protest, but now I feel like I’d rather stand with them than tacitly lend my support to this anti-Democratic, anti-American rhetoric.

The exercise of the right of speech and public assembly is one of the things that makes this country truly great, and a beacon in the world. People all over the Arab world right now are paying with their lives for this simple, basic, civic right. No one has to go to DC to do it, or to focus solely on an elected official. So long as money = power, it is perfectly sane to direct political energy at those who dominate either sphere, wherever they may be.

And the foreclosure issue, by the way, isn’t about people signing up for more house than they could afford and then expecting to be carried by the bank or by taxpayers. First, Chase, like other banks involved in the foreclosure scandal, has been foreclosing on mortgages illegally — mortgages it did not own, mortgages it did not have the legal right to foreclose on, mortgages that were not in default, mortgages held by homeowners who qualified for refinancing or reinstatement. Second, Chase, like the other banks, lined up shady mortgage brokers and paid them exorbitant fees to sign up buyers who the banks’ own underwriters said would probably default in the future. Then these banks dumped their subprime mortgages onto unsuspecting investors by lying about the quality of the investments. So Chase gets all the profit and Chase avoids all the risk. The primary mistake made by home-buyers was not one of over-borrowing; it was failing to look into their crystal balls and see that their jobs were about to vanish.

Mike March 12, 2012 (6:59 pm)

Thank you WSB for letting people know where to avoid around 4PM. I wish they’d just hold signs up saying ‘Transfer to BECU’, because that’s basically what we did and it’s been a great experience. Even though we dumped Wells Fargo, not Chase.

Jason March 12, 2012 (7:48 pm)

For the record during planning of this event the group has been very mindful of not wanting to disrupt traffic, you guys all assume 1000 people are going to show up. As someone a part of this group
I would be shocked if we got over 50, so maybe a little sidewalk traffic might be blocked, but that’s about all. As an occupier I am personally very mindful of those being affected by my actions. That is why we chose to march on the sidewalk not the street that is one of the reasons why we chose that chase because as a corner bank we can avoid blocking other storefronts. I really wish some of you would look for your own truths instead of believing fox or other corporate run news agencies.

Dc west I hope to meet you tomorrow, waterworld you too I hope you choose to join us!

torte March 12, 2012 (8:02 pm)

Maybe the Greeks will bail us out, after the banks have hidden all our money.

Tuesday March 12, 2012 (8:18 pm)

Just because someone disagrees with your approach or your perspective doesn’t mean they are not thinking people. It also doesn’t mean they buy the junk Fox or any other corporate news agencies are shoveling out. Regardless of whether I agree with the occupy anything, I still support your freedom to speak freely and let your thoughts be heard. I do appreciate any efforts to minimize impact on people trying to go about their daily lives.

Mike March 12, 2012 (8:21 pm)

Protesting at a bank branch is as effective as protesting outside 7-11. Just let me know where you are so I can avoid the drivers gawking at the crowd. Have fun in the rain/snow mix tomorrow night, dress warm.

Dave March 12, 2012 (8:44 pm)

Kudos to anyone who gets off their buns and gets involved but the best way to hurt the big banks is to take their money. I moved to BECU from BofA and I couldn’t be happier (or richer from lack of fees).

Question March 12, 2012 (8:49 pm)

Actually chase and the rest of the banks have not avoided all of the risks, the state attorney generals, the us government as well as many others including Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have sued the banks to the tune of billions of dollars.

And more Important than that take a look at the stock price of bofa or citi or wamu which doesn’t exist anymore. The market financially punished the executives of these companies far more than the government ever can and will. Those execs got stock options for years which are now worthless.

The fraud aspect of this is where the occupy movement has a serious point. If they had stuck to this the movement would be far more meaningful. Like asking the question how after one of the greatest frauds perpetrated on the American people has not resulted in a single arrest of a financial executive. That is an important question.

But that question should not be directed to the bank executives. It should be to Eric holder and the state ag’s and the justice dept. Your elected officials are the ones who are failing you.

ILoveWestSeattle March 12, 2012 (9:02 pm)

Real nice, shakes57–given that the Occupy crowds are, indeed, a broad cross-section of American people, concerned about our corrupted corporate/poliical system, exercising their rights as proscribed in our founding documents–and you encourage violence and law enforcement misconduct. I can imagine your delight should that transpire, and you can watch news coverage as your fellow citizens are manhandled, clubbed and pepper-sprayed. Best to all on this comment thread who have illumunated the debate with civility, and articulate facts and knowledge of the subjects at hand.

orca March 12, 2012 (9:38 pm)

Why do the occupy supporters here all seem to think that anyone who does not agree with them and thinks they are foolish must be republicans and listen to Fox. That is just more of the silly propaganda they feed each other.
Many of us here are not Fox watchers or republicans. We just see you as a bunch of misguided people with a jumbled message and cause.
We just don’t think you have any message that makes sense to anyone but yourselves.

Posers March 12, 2012 (9:53 pm)

If you don’t pitch a tent or squat in a house – can you call it occupying? Aren’t you worried the real occupy groups will laugh at you and call you names?

Yossarian March 12, 2012 (10:04 pm)

Twinkles up, twinkles down. Yell random “banks got bailed out, we got sold out” lines. Hold an ironic sign, publicly relieve yourself. Rinse, repeat. All in a days work!

G March 12, 2012 (10:44 pm)

And we’ll see the same six protestors we see
at EVERY rally.

Go AWAY!! We don’t want this dissension in OUR neighborhood!

Sue Backs March 12, 2012 (10:44 pm)

I’ll be there and proud of it. This is my neighborhood and I love it. Occupy is good for our country.

truth March 12, 2012 (11:16 pm)

Go AWAY!! Are you kidding??? I live here and I have the freedom to protest anything, G….Tolerance is part of a just society….And I thought we had some intelligent folks here in WS…If you don’t know the “REAL” story do some research, if you don’t want to inform yourself, umm, please make sure to keep giving the corporate world your ALL!!! haha…STAND for something OR fall for ANYTHING!!! This IS the world we are leaving for our kids and I’ll be damned If I will sit back while greed and corruption is just ACCEPTED!! seriously….

Mike March 12, 2012 (11:21 pm)

@ Question, you tend to forget about the golden parachute the execs get. WAMU stock might be worthless, but their golden parachutes keep them in their mega mansions across the globe driving Bentley’s even after the FDIC ‘settled’ for $64 Million… settled, that means it’s not even close to what they got. http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/13/news/companies/wamu_settlement/index.htm
.
The only ones that lost out on the stock are the 99% shareholders who didn’t know when to sell.

Jennifer March 12, 2012 (11:29 pm)

I’ve recently attended a couple events sponsored by Occupy Seattle, and they were very informative, very peaceful events. There are a number of older Occupy members who instruct the crowds in civil behavior and discourse, and when someone behaves obnoxiously, they are asked to leave by the group. As I understand it, there are some obnoxious people in the Occupy Movement here, but the vast majority of those involved are wonderful, pro-civil behavior people.

Bradford B. Morrison March 13, 2012 (1:21 am)

Friends;
I am an “OCCUPIER” of Seattle and Planet Earth!!… For anyone who is not aware of the level of corruption that Chase Bank may be involved in, you might be interested in googling “chase silver market manipulation”. What you will find is that Chase Bank is being sued for illegally manipulating the precious metals market in SILVER METAL; causing the spot price of SILVER to plummet about 15% in one day; SO THAT CHASE BANK could PROFIT by somewhere between $200 MILLION and $1.5 BILLION U.S. DOLLARS!!

Added to their manipulative dealings in the real estate mortgage derivatives fiasco; along with their help in financing ILLEGAL WARS for OIL COMPANY PROFITS; and other financing to environmentally rape and pillage many third world countries…well, I could go on all day, but I think anyone with an open mind can pretty much get the picture.

If at all possible, please come to the trial of the Chase 5; in Seattle Municipal Court; 5th and James in downtown Seattle; at 8:30 am courtroom 1002 Tuesday, March 13th. Come later if you can’t get there by 8:30

Thanks for Listening
Peace and Love
Loudmouth Karaoke Brad

P.S. I have spent about 6 hours a day on average attending “OCCUPY SEATTLE” events, beginning October 1st, 2011. I know that it is a generally misunderstood idea that “OCCUPIERS” almost never have jobs. That is just a small part of the B.S. SMEAR CAMPAIGN TACTICS that the greedy 1% would like you to believe. The TRUTH is that the MAJORITY of OCCUPIERS in Seattle have either a job or are students; (or BOTH!!)…

JanS March 13, 2012 (1:22 am)

I can’t help but thinking, dissent on this movement aside if the editor of the West Seattle Blog had opted to not post anything about this event, those who think that they are promoting “propaganda” would be the first to bitch because no one told them about it so they could avoid it…or go to it to watch the spectacle, like they were at the zoo.

NotMe March 13, 2012 (2:44 am)

Jan, do yourself and your heart a favor: stop getting upset at the amount of awful, ignorant, hateful, disrespectful crap that people will continue to “comment” on here. I find I have to remind myself a few times as I read some of these comments that I will not get upset. I hardly ever write in the comments anymore because it isn’t doing anyone any good… None of these comments is going to change a single thing – these folks are just spewing.

bestbets March 13, 2012 (3:43 am)

Thanks WSB for the heads up and the opportunity to listen to my fellow West Seattleites’ views. Democracy is not always pretty and should not be convenient – being informed and involved is crucial to its success. I am glad people have opinions and are sharing them – even though I don’t agree with them all, it helps me formulate my position on issues.

Jason March 13, 2012 (6:42 am)

@ orca when did you go down and talk to occupiers as a group and formulate your opinion that we are a bunch of “misguided people with a jumbled message and cause.”?
You say “We just don’t think you have any message that makes sense to anyone but yourselves” but have you directly spoken to a wide array of people that identify themselves as part of Occupy? Or did you, like many, just form your opinion based on what corporate media outlets have told you? Because I talk to people every single day that know how to think for themselves, and actually seek out occupiers to talk to them, instead of about them! It is those opinions that are valid even if they disagree, at least they formulated their own opinion based on experience instead of based on whatever the news told them. If there’s one thing I’ve learned over time, it is that most major news outlets lie, they are forced to manipulate stories for the sole purpose of pushing the agenda of the ruling class. Not only FOX but most of the other major tv and radio stations as well!

orca March 13, 2012 (7:31 am)

@Jason
The opinions and ideology of you and the others are expressed in all of your posts right here for us to see.
They truly do seem to fit “misguided people with a jumbled message and cause.”
A very telling example of your ideology is your statement above referring to “the RULING CLASS”.
Hmmm I wonder where we have heard that in the past” Add that to your statement that a politcal protest will be “fun for the whole family.”
My opinion of your group is based on statements such as these that have been made here and other places.
You are deluding yourselves that the media and the “ruling class” are out to get you. People just see you as foolish.

Joan March 13, 2012 (7:33 am)

Lol…..”peaceful action for the whole family”. You must be crazy. What a mess.

WSB March 13, 2012 (8:00 am)

Jason: I would have to disagree with your perception of traditional media, having worked in it (mostly TV, but also radio, newspapers, and national Web) for more than a quarter-century before quitting to work fulltime (and then some) as WSB editor.
.
There are certainly problems with corporate ownership of local media (print even more than TV) – consolidation, cost-cutting, closure of outlets regardless of the impact on the community, etc. – but they do not include anyone being “forced to manipulate stories.” I was a newsroom manager and show producer for most of my career, therefore directly responsible for what hit the air, and the only “manipulation” in which I engaged was trying to get reporters to use proper grammar and spelling, as well as ethical and thorough reporting techniques (“did you call so & so? what did they say? please attribute fact X to them, then, so people know where that came from” and so on).
.
Also please note when you deal with Seattle media, my last traditional-media employer, Q13 FOX, has no affiliation with the FOX News cable network (Q13 is actually owned by the Chicago-based Tribune Corporation), but since they carry FOX TV network programming (“The Simpsons” and so on) as a non-owned affiliate (most local affiliates of TV networks are NOT owned by the networks and actually have to pay said networks a pretty penny to get the programming) meant that sometimes people would refuse to talk to them, mistaking them for representatives of the national cable network.
.
And to the original discussion here: We published a news release. We publish several news releases a day most days, always clearly labeling them as news releases/announcements, putting the text in blue background and italic font. They come from police, from nonprofits, from government agencies, from businesses, from performers, from neighborhood groups, from schools, and yes, from political groups, such as this one. – TR

AndrewsDad March 13, 2012 (8:23 am)

At some point this afternoon I will be walking from my office to the post office as I do most afternoons. If any occupy people decide to block the sidewalk and refuse to allow me to go through, I will be contacting the police. Feel free to protest all you want. Break the law and expect to deal with the police.

April March 13, 2012 (8:29 am)

Here is my problem with the occupy protesters. They are claiming they are the 99%, and they are speaking on behalf of the 99%. It is not the case. I am a working class person, and you do not speak for me. It would be more appropriate to call yourselves the 1%, because that is who you are (or less than 1%). You do not speak for me, so stop claiming that you do. If you wish to have your say, go ahead, but speak on behalf of yourselves, be honest, and stop pretending you are speaking on behalf of the 99%, which you are most certainly not.

This reminds me, sadly, of all the muslims in the world who are now branded because of the horrible 1% of that group that is doing horrible things. They do not represent the millions of peaceful muslims in the world, and it is a tragedy that now so many people think this is what muslims are and this is what they think.

I pray that this is not what becomes of us, as it will just create a deeper wedge between people in our society.

Jim March 13, 2012 (8:31 am)

I just want to reiterate my original point, which has nothing to do with most of the discussion that followed it, which is the source of my disgust with Occupy:

Their intention is to threaten the livelihoods of innocent people. Not a single person in the local Chase branch has anything to do with the issue they are bringing attention to. It is this disregard for real people and real facts that causes my disdain. You give the impression that it is more important to get your feelings vented and draw attention to the validy of your feelings than it is to do the hard work and hard thinking required to actually fix the problem.

Even if you weren’t accomplishing anything I’d at least be neutral on the issue if you weren’t throwing innocent people under the bus (which you are – it’s a picket line that is not walked by the actual employees of Chase and you are trying to divert business to credit unions). Get the employees from the local branch out there on the picket line with you and I will change my tune.

I respect your opinions and your rights to express them. I don’t respect the Mao-style mindset that blinds you as you act out against innocent people.

Kayleigh March 13, 2012 (8:51 am)

The nastiness shown here to the Occupy people is really surprising. I doubt that the tellers at Chase are having their livelihoods threatened. Maybe they should take “personal responsibility” and work for a more honorable employer, if what Occupy says bothers them. Which I doubt it does.
.
Some of you sound both like old fogeys and right wing authoritarians, neither of which is a good thing. People like you said similar things to the civil rights and women’s rights and gay rights agitators. Some of you are sadly, angrily, and bitterly behind the times. Enjoy your economic subjugation and hate, because soon it will be all you have left.

Dizzle March 13, 2012 (9:05 am)

Jason, I hope you are only using an a local, US made computer to post all these comments. Otherwise you are supporting a huge company with a rich CEO! Have a good day at work and don’t forget your bongos and hemp jacket!

Westie March 13, 2012 (9:18 am)

TR, I love what you do. Just the facts. Take it or leave it. Thank you so much

Jason March 13, 2012 (9:28 am)

@wsb thanks for your clarification, I have worked in radio as well and I took a far different opinion away from my time there. I also have seen numerous times when the report in print or on tv or radio did not match what actually happened in reality. I guess it’s more of an omission of key components rather than a a true manipulation. I wish when I worked in radio I had a boss like you that wouldn’t have pandered to this type of behavior, but rather just reported news as it happened.

AndrewsDad March 13, 2012 (9:50 am)

What bothers me about the occupy movement is how ineffective it is. Do you ever hear of any real world solutions? They scream about social justice and equality but do they put out any sort of plan for doing so? Hand out leaflets for some local credit union? And just so you know I belong to 2 credit unions myself. I would be shocked if they convince 10 people to switch from Chase. I would actually expect more people to feel sympathy for Chase, especially the local Chase employees since they, like so many of us on this board see how ineffectove it is to picket a local branch. The average citizen who is walking to the post office or going to the senior center across the street might think to themselves, while I dont love big corporate banks, I really dont appreciate those people causing havoc for my friends and neighbors who happen to work and use that Chase branch.

So my advice to the occupy movement is stop wasting your time and stop causing others problems and start coming up with real world solutions for the problems you believe exist. These protests and pickets and drum circles just make you look foolish.

cr March 13, 2012 (10:09 am)

Couldn’t agree more with April. Interesting question, the occupiers here have claimed that they come from all walks of life and economic standing. How do those working, tax paying members feel about those members who freeload off of them by not paying their part, or not working? If you should be complaining it is about a broken tax structure. That 1% you talk about pay 40% of the taxes collected in this country. You only make x amount of dollars so you don’t have to contribute? How is that fair? If there is a divide, it isn’t 1% and 99%, it’s 49% of Americans pay taxes and 51% do not. 49% of Americans pay for the other 51% to live. THAT, folks, is not Democratic.

Jim March 13, 2012 (10:13 am)

I moved here from an area in Florida that truly was decimated, and part of that decimation was caused by the insane ease with which it was possible to borrow large amounts of money. An equal part of the decimation, however, was caused by the insane greed which was driving people to take the money, not just to buy a house but to leverage their homes so they could buy more stuff. The whole economy was based on debt and betting against the future. You cannot turn a blind eye to role “neighbors” play in the decimation of their own neighborhoods. Takes two to tango.

Neighbor March 13, 2012 (10:18 am)

@andrewsdad-If you think completely changing the dialogue of this country in less than one year is ineffectual I really don’t know what to tell ya….
Most of the country is behind the Occupy movement and it’s belief in accountability, economic justice and real democracy.We want banks to strengthen our communities not decimate them. We don’t want banks to cause havoc for our neighbors and our friends.
Perhaps you should take little Andrew down and show him what patriotism really looks like. Perhaps it’s time to show him that being a citizen requires involvement. After all isn’t the right to protest one of the greatest things about being an American? Our country is founded by revolutionaries.

JR March 13, 2012 (10:31 am)

It’s easy to blame home-buyers for swallowing the American Dream a little too readily, and signing up for exploding ARMs time and again. Using your house like an ATM and signing off on a statement claiming six-figure income from your job at Taco Time was clearly not a good idea.

However, it takes two to tango, even with the straw man listed above. Lenders also have a pretty good idea what their borrowers can and will pay. Whatever culpability home-buyers should feel for believing the hype and assuming their property values would continue to skyrocket indefinitely… Willful ignorance mixed with a little greed is unfortunately very common.

The banks, on the other hand, are the ones who chopped up thousands of obviously toxic loans into so many pieces that they couldn’t be identified. The banks then proceeded to sell these CDOs designed to fail so they could bet against their own investors on the unregulated derivatives market.

A massive fraud, however you slice it – the banks had a fiduciary duty to their investors, and instead handed them a ticking time bomb and placed their own bets on when it was going off. Not only was this a disaster for everyone stuck holding the bag on these investments (and I’m not talking blind homeowners, I’m talking your employer’s pension fund), but it was reckless enough to throw the US, and ultimately global economy into a desperate tailspin.

I know, it’s complicated. Easier to stereotype one side as unwashed bums and the other as fascist sheeple.

In sum:

Borrowers- Greed + ignorance.
Lenders- Greed + recklessness and malice aforethought.

Whatever you think of all the underwater mortgagees, none of them got rich engineering, and then exploiting this situation. I’m not sure how blaming the losers will ultimately help get us out of this situation.

Corporate guy March 13, 2012 (10:41 am)

Please, just watch the movie “Inside Job”. They do a better job of explaining how the major banks behaved irresponsibly and crashed our economy. It won an academy award and not a single fact they present has been disputed by those involved.

Stop blaming the victims. Every american should be standing for fairness.

I have a senior corporate job, and I stand 100% with the Occupy movement. The system is corrupt and you can either be cynical or be engaged in the fight to fix it.

Erik March 13, 2012 (11:07 am)

Happy birthday Jamie! I hope you buy the wife a nice yacht with the $1billion you liberated from all those MF Global account holders.

If you really want to do damage to JP Morgan Chase, buy physical silver to counter all the illegal naked shorts they sell on the market.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB-gyU6jPQ4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wacq8CrFKNY

JR March 13, 2012 (11:11 am)

To those who don’t believe in local action-

Just because there are actual local people working at a particular bank branch does not paper over their employers’ crimes. I know these tellers are our hard-working neighbors and in the same boat as the rest of us. No one’s accusing them of being evil. But all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. (Edmund Burke) With so much inertia keeping the status quo in effect, tacit support is enough. All the financial complex needs to keep blowing and bursting bubbles on the backs of the middle class is your complicity.

Besides the cries to “get a job” (which don’t mean much to the retirees or employed in your audience), people seem to think we should be protesting in Washington DC, or Olympia, instead. We ARE protesting in DC, Olympia, and many other major cities nation and world-wide. Travel is not always practical, and a turnout at every Chase branch will likely be more effective than a single protest at corporate HQ, etc.

Many would prefer we work “within the system” to achieve the change desired. As an attorney I’m keen to do just that myself – challenging unjust laws, punishing criminals, and legislating rules that make sense for the future sound great. In practice, reversing Citizens United or re-instating Glass-Steagal are goals out of reach for most of these protestors. I guarantee that many of them have written numerous letters to their elected representatives, and often received the same response seen here: ignore the hippies and they’ll go away.

Sure, write a referendum. Get active in local politics. Not to upset the cart with too many facts here, but a lot of people don’t have the time to devote themselves to political life. A real job gets in the way, for one thing. Moreover, a lot people aren’t inclined to dedicate themselves to deciding how others should live. (It’s a lot easier on the internet!)

And most importantly, as Citizens United has established, is that the only voice in government is money. You’re effectively telling the jobless horde to fight a battle they don’t even understand against a near-infinite army of well-funded professional lobbyists. And then mocking them for losing.

Occupy is more a primal scream than a coherent protest. Rightly it is noted that organization and message are lacking. But my take is that most of the protestors are not looking to coalesce into a political unit to be absorbed into one party or another, to have their votes bought and sold like the rest. They are typical Americans – of diverse backgrounds and all ages – who have lost faith in their leaders. Americans who can’t see a future where they get an education, or a job, or health care, or retirement. Not looking for handouts, just a chance.

We can disagree on where they should look. I doubt they’ll find it outside Chase today. But to everyone who thinks local action like this is either ineffective or misdirected, I encourage you to find your own way to make a difference. And not just a different box checked on a form our corporate masters send us every 4 years, but an actual change.

Tuesday March 13, 2012 (11:12 am)

Good point, April. It is a bit presumptuous for occupiers to claim they represent such a significant portion of the population. People with the same views tend to clump up. Also, when talking to people in person they are far less inclined to share their true views, most people try, for the sake of politeness, to find common ground. Maybe that’s skewing occupier’s perception of widespread support. I would be seriously surprised if even 20% of people in the country were on board with the stated goals of any occupy event.

AndrewsDad March 13, 2012 (11:14 am)

I have no problem with protesting. I just have a problem with protests that just cause problems and dont solve problems. You can google a list of links to news stories about crimes commited by occupy people, assualt, property destruction, rapes, etc. The list is hundreds of links long last I checked many months ago. You can find news story after news story about the cost, in millions, that governments have paid because of occupy in police salary, clean up, etc. There are story after story about the inconveniance to hard working middle class people when occupy decides to shut down a street or intersection.

And with all of these costs, what exactly has been the benefits of occupy?

Personally, I think most Americans would give a twinkle down to those who thinks changing the world can happen by illegally camping in a public oark and forming a drum circle and having a policy of not cooperating with police when sexual assaults happen. From The Feminist Wire… Occupy Rape Culture http://thefeministwire.com/2011/11/occupy-rape-culture/

Jim March 13, 2012 (11:21 am)

“Occupy is more a primal scream than a coherent protest.”

Now that we have come to an agreement I can log off.

NotMe March 13, 2012 (12:56 pm)

Yeah, Jim. Pick one random comment out of context, and sum it all up for everyone. Good job. And thanks for logging off and going away.

JR March 13, 2012 (2:24 pm)

AndrewsDad-

I would like to see examples of protests that don’t “just cause problems” in the short-term for the people affected.

In 1960 the “sit-in” movement in Greensboro, N.C. kicked off a series of events we now know as the “civil rights movement.” In 1960, however, you can bet that Dr. King and the students arrested with him were “just causing problems” for the department store lunch counter they were sitting in, the people trying to eat there, and the employees trying to do their jobs. No one then expected that a bunch of citizens standing up for themselves in violation of the law would accomplish much.
In 1961 Dr. King was jailed again, after thousands of frustrated African-Americans clashed with police. These “problems” were not limited to the establishment being protested – black churches were bombed, and community members with no political interest were threatened and attacked.

And things got worse before they got better. King was jailed ~30 times, children were murdered, and rioting ensued. Alabama state troopers moved in and set up undeclared martial law.

You could find story after story about the inconvenience to hard working middle class people when a sit-in shut down their store, bus, or restaurant. Innocent merchants suffered in the rioting. A lawyer representing those “freedom riders” for sit-ins was asleep with his wife when dynamite was thrown through their window.
Three years after causing quite a few “problems,” Dr. King was recognized as Time’s Man of the Year. He now has a national holiday, and a memorial in our capitol.
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I hope my point is clear: if you disregard the objectives of civil disobedience, and ignore the fact that it often takes years to achieve those goals, then of course it appears to be a pointless expression of outrage. The purpose of civil disobedience -is- to cause problems until you can no longer be ignored.
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P.S. I’m sure some may take issue with my analogy, and clearly the economic and legal inequality arguments advanced today are much more contentious than the now-settled question of racial segregation. But my point is this: remember how that question got settled, and ask yourself if it was worth the problems.

Fraker's March 13, 2012 (2:33 pm)

DC West, you don’t have a clue, and at twenty-five already you should have learned something by now:

“how can you fault someone who wants to own a home, is told they can afford it, and then after signing the papers is told that “oh you cant afford these payments and by the way the value of your home is nowhere near what it was when you bought it.”

When someone tells you, DC West, that they have some oceanfront property in Iowa to sell you, whose job is it to determine whether the property would make for a good purchase? “Freedom of speech” is a given in our country, that means that anybody is free to say m-m-m-m-most anything (with certain, obvious exceptions). The government lays out various regulations with regard to some purchases, but just because there’s a great deal on $400,000 oceanfront property in Iowa, doesn’t mean you, with your piddly $872.29 in the bank, and your $10-an-hour job can afford to purchase it. Once you sign on the dotted line, it is YOU and you alone who is responsible for the commitment you made. By any logical analysis, it is the collective American public who is solely responsible for the world-wide economic meltdown. When you make giant purchases you can not afford, and you aren’t even capable of deducing what you can, and cannot afford, then you have nobody to blame for your woes other than yourself!!!!

orca March 13, 2012 (3:28 pm)

@Fraker
There is a sliver of truth and logic in your post. I certainly don’t support the occupy people but to shift the whole blame onto buyers is as wrong as the occupy people who blame it all on the banks. Greed is the cause of the meltdown. Greed on all sides. Banks, Buyers, Sellers, Con-men, Real Estate Agents, Mortgage Brokers, and others are to blame.

By the way, I notice that Jason must have rallied his troops to come to the blog and post support as we are suddenly seeing manifesto type posts from several people.
If West Seattle is typical of Seattle or anywhere else than the 1% 99% claim is even more foolish and simple minded than I thought. West Seattle actually leans much farther to the left than most areas…and yet we see the majority posting here as opposed to the occupy movement.
Difficult to see it any other way unless you are a blind zealot for the cause (if there is actually a cause.)

boy March 13, 2012 (3:35 pm)

Face it people we are now living in the entitlement generation. Everybody else owes me. They owe me schooling they owe me health care they owe me a roof over my head they owe me the food I eat they owe me the clothes I where. I guess the only thing to go to work for is a big screen tv a new ipad and a fanzy car. Oh I almost forgot to pay for all the above for someone else.

Jtk March 13, 2012 (3:59 pm)

O.V.E.R.K.I.L.L.
Good Lord.

M March 13, 2012 (4:11 pm)

I think I’ll watch from my nice warm car

snowball March 13, 2012 (4:13 pm)

About to try to get home from downtown – how is traffic in the Junction – any effect from the protest?

AndrewsDad March 13, 2012 (4:22 pm)

I was just out there, 4:15 and there were more cops than protesters, maybe 10 and average age about 55. They were huddling under the awning at Key Bank. I guess staying dry was more important than social justice.

About as big of a nothing as I have ever seen.

AndrewsDad March 13, 2012 (5:42 pm)

JR,

Civil disobediance is designed to cause problems, you are correct, and the 2nd part of my point, the solve problems…. that is what you are missing. If you want to specifically talk about the MLK civil rights years, yes it took time and yes they caused issues but they had a goal, a purpose. You do not. The issues they caused, sitting in buses and at lunch counters differs from the issues occupy is causing, tearing up banks and Whole Foods and Starbucks and defecating in public and raping and assaulting, its a long list. I can go to 20 of my neighbors and ask what did Martin Luther King want and I well get 20 people telling me the same thing. If I ask them what does occupy want, I will not get the same answer twice unless its “Hell if I know”. I listened to a national radio show on personal finance and the host spent over an hour asking occupy supporters what they wanted, never got the same answer twice. Go to the Occupy Seattle website and show me where it says what you want. Under principles and statements,
AFFIRMED, that we prioritize the involvement of indigenous sovereign people in the redesigning and rebuilding of a new way of living on their ancestral land in the context that there is one mother of us all, our earth mother; and

Awakening to compassion and extending an open hand of friendship and partnership, we hereby invite indigenous members of the Pacific Northwest and all displaced peoples to collaborate with us in this event remembering and reawakening to our original identity as humane beings – that is now initiated on this continent and worldwide simultaneously

I have no idea what that means. Someone read Declaration of decolonization and explain that to me. http://occupyseattle.org/resource/declaration-decolonizeoccupy-seattle
under goals there are 45 things you can vote on, end prisons, tax micro trading, end bank fees, universal education, nationalize banks.

So JR, here is your chancem, tell me, tell us all, what is it you want. What do you want us to do that would appease the occupy movement. And I want specifics, I want realistic real world answers. “Social Justice” ane “eliminate wealth inequality” are not specific real world answers.

Your turn.

Aman March 13, 2012 (6:06 pm)

I was in the immediate area from approx. 3:30 pm to 5:30 pm for a meeting at Shadowland Restaurant & Bar ( 4458 California Avenue). I had a “birds-eye 180 degree view” of the demonstration. I counted 40 people at the apex (approx. 4:45 pm.) of the demonstration (8 of the 40 were kids approx. 4- 14 years old.)

All demonstrators were well behaved, friendly, & courteous. LOT’S of smiles & positive energy. Good police presence (no, they did NOT outnumber the demonstrators by ANY measure); Police I spoke with also in an upbeat mode.

By 5:30 p.m. the rain, sleet, hail, and wind had ceased and the sun was out. The remaining demonstrators numbered approx. 30 people.

NICE to see my fellow citizens out, braving the elements exercising OUR human right to free speech. Whether one agrees with them or not, THANK YOU!

AndrewsDad March 13, 2012 (6:10 pm)

I just walked up to Chase bank at 5:45 and the only people there were 2 Seattle Police officers. They said about 15-20 people max were part of the protest and stayed for an hour while the sun was out. I had seen a group of no more than 10 under the awning at Key Bank at 4:15 pm staying out of the rain.

Aman March 13, 2012 (6:18 pm)

Andy’s Pop – I hope that you are not an accountant.

Jason March 13, 2012 (6:29 pm)

Peaceful. Family friendly. No blocking of traffic. No directing our anger at employees just trying to get by. I guess all your potential complaints failed to materialize. Thanks comrades we had an amazing first local action of hopefully many more to come!

Sue B. March 13, 2012 (6:58 pm)

I was there and agree with AndrewsDad and Jason.
A good and worthwhile time was had by all.

Fraker's March 13, 2012 (10:45 pm)

Orca, the vague reference to “greed” doesn’t make much sense. If a guy is playing a card game, and all of the aces come his way, is he “greedy” for taking them and playing them as his own?

The entire backbone to America IS the idea/theory that anybody can make a go of it in our free society. People are equally free to sink or swim of their own accord. I wouldn’t go so far as to call it “greed” when somebody with $872.29 in the bank purchases a $400,000 property (on the ocean, in Iowa). That is more indicative of a mental lapse or a full mental break-down.

It was the collective sum of those mental breakdowns which in turn deflated property values and then, finally, exposed scores and scores of others who, truly, could not afford their large and outstanding loans. The collective misunderstanding of what you can and cannot afford doesn’t exactly fall under the heading of “greed”. The real estate people feed you a bunch of crap relating to being “underwater” and the like. Well it doesn’t matter if you’re “underwater” when you can afford the loan you have. You have to live somewhere, and you likely selected that spot (as did DC West, with his oceanfront property in Iowa). People just cannot drum it through their heads that it was the collective impact of millions of (self-inflicted) individual financial mistakes which brought the economy down upon itself. “Banks”, for the most part, merely operated within government guidelines in what were admittedly times that were spectacularly vulnerable to a result such as we’ve seen. Was the government in turn ‘responsible’ for any of the collapse – no, not when it still took individuals seemingly of sound mind to sign on those dotted lines. If you want the government to be responsible – move to China. When some jobless dimwit throws a brick at a Starbucks window, and then blames a bank for his own undoing, maybe THAT is some other definition of “greed” we should look into. To blame the very few who were indeed living within their means during all of this, is entirely silly!!

Lonnie March 14, 2012 (8:33 am)

Fraker’s, I don’t quite follow your reasoning.

The failure is the banks over-estimated the ability of their customer base to pay their mortgages, and it was this action, on the part of the banks, that created the real estate bubble.

Now that the bubble has popped and real estate values are down to reasonable levels, I have lost a lot of money. This was not my error of judgement. As you say, I needed somewhere to live, and I am able to afford it.

As I see it, the banks created a bubble in order to meet their short term goals. When that bubble inevitably burst, the banks and consumers were stuck with the losses. The banks were “too big to fail”, so we prevented that disaster.

Through out all of this, I conducted my real estate dealings in a responsible manner. I took out a loan I could afford, and have continued to pay on it.

However, I am paying more on that house than it is worth. The difference, is going to the banks, the same entity that caused that difference in the first place.

I am providing a personal bailout to the banks each time I pay my mortgage. I don’t protest because I want a handout, I protest because the banks have ruined the economy, stuck me with paying for their mistakes. Meanwhile, the banks have been bailed out and are back to making profits.

deepgreen March 14, 2012 (11:14 am)

unsubstantiated shadow? — while individual branch employees there might be very friendly, the corporation itself and predatory practices are what OWS are pointing to. The statistics show 56,000 bogus foreclosure documents “robo-signed” by Chase, 52% of mediation proceedings where Chase didn’t have the right paperwork, and people were overcharged 300% of normal payments for late fees on these mortgages. Lastly: over 700% increase in amount of commissions that Chase lenders made by pushing subprime mortgages — a little incentive driving them to prey on the less able-to-pay customers, overtly pushing them to take out more loans than they know the consmer can afford, because the bank won’t HOLD the mortgage, they just repackaged them and sold them. A little unscrupulous, don’t you think?

Fraker's March 14, 2012 (9:02 pm)

Lonnie,

Please describe for us how you have “lost a lot of money”. Sounds like you don’t have any understanding of just what “lost a lot of money” means.

If you buy a can of 7-Up at Target, for 33 cents, and then go across Westwood Village to Rite Aid and see the same size can of 7-Up on sale for 20 cents, do you feel you “lost” 13 cents?? That is absolutely absurd.

IF you purchased a home, signed on the dotted line, on, say, Jan. 1, 2006, for $400,000… and the next week you were told the home was “worth $250,000” given the decline of property/home value over those 7 days. As long as you can afford the loan you took out to pay for it, you have “lost” nothing.

However, those who purchased the cookie cutter homes on either side, for $400,000, on that same date, who then saw the value (and their collateral) drop to $250,000, who then could not afford to make the payments, were making a purchase all along which they COULD NOT AFFORD.

Now which part of this don’t you understand?

IF you purchase stock in Coca Cola for $66 on July 29th… and it drops in paper value to $54.25 overnight, you have “lost” nothing. If you bought that stock largely on margin, and the price decrease forced you to sell and go into debt because of it, then you were making a purchase you could not afford.

Lastly, banks are not in the business of ‘(gu)esstimating’ what you can and cannot afford, beyond industry guidelines. There remains no way around the fact that millions of individuals who COULD NOT AFFORD the loans they were taking out, are solely and collectively to blame for the economic collapse termed “The Great Recession”. The fact that they continue to look for somebody ELSE to finger is further proof positive of this. Throwing a brick at a Starbucks store, or a bank window, solves absolutely nothing for those who made their own mistakes and who are now paying the piper (some for the rest of their lives, and deservedly so in most cases) (for it was one thing to sabotage one’s own good financial standing, but when your own financial mismanagement drags others down with you, then there is no question you get what you deserve…)

Lonnie March 14, 2012 (10:15 pm)

You are correct, banks aren’t in the business of ‘(gu)estimating’ what their creditors can and can’t afford.

Banks are, however, in the business of accurately predicting their return on loans, including taking delinquency and default into account. If the cost of these loans exceeds the income from them, the banks loose money.

That is exactly what happened. The banks bought loans they couldn’t afford.

For better or worse, the public provided the banks with huge sums of money and interest free loans in order to prevent their demise.

On the other hand, had I been so irresponsible to buy something I couldn’t afford…. Luckily, I don’t have experience down that path, I kept up with my side of the bargain.

I lost money by public funds being used to bail the banks out.
I am loosing money by having to pay an inflated price for my house due to the actions of a bank.

This is all perfectly legal. What’s the problem?

AndrewsDad March 15, 2012 (8:21 am)

The problem is we as a society have decided not to let anyone fail. Banks dont fail, kids that do not do the minimum amount of work in school do not fail. Every kid who signs up to soccer gets a trophy. Failure is a needed function in society that needs to be experianced. When failure is never allowed then the behavior that should lead to failure are not “punished” and will continue to exist.

Fraker's March 15, 2012 (8:22 pm)

Lonnie, you still don’t get it.

By the very fact that The U.S. public collectively brought about the world economic collapse, it was only fitting that the U.S. public, collectively, as represented by their own government, SHOULD have provided the bail-out to banks which were sunk BY the very actions of the individuals collectively represented BY that government.

Try as you might, you simply CAN NOT GET AROUND the absolute reality that it was the overspending by U.S. citizens which begat the world financial crisis.

If your own wealthy parent first causes you a bunch of debt, and then bails you out of the financial morass caused by that debt, it is only appropriate. The actions of these dimwitted “Occupy” people are akin to the parent who was originally to blame for your financial morass then picketing outside of YOUR HOUSE in protest (of god knows what)!!!

You yourself effectively ‘partnered’ with these crisis-causing people who were unable to afford all they bought, and by the very rules of that partnership, YOU are on the hook for their mistakes, regardless of whether or not you can afford the loan you took out when buying your house.

Not only that but you chose via the voting booth the ‘high level executives’ who oversee that partnership. So once again: THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE EXACTLY NO ONE ELSE TO BLAME FOR THE PRESENT DAY ECONOMY BUT THEMSELVES. (strangely, perhaps that DOES, now, finally answer as to why they’re throwing bricks at the windows of random businesses as a result – it’s the pure frustration they feel for not truly having anyone else on whose shoulders they can lay legitimate blame)

Lonnie March 15, 2012 (8:25 pm)

@AndrewsDad, you have a good point, fear of failure can be a powerful motivator. Also, I question the wisdom with giving banks bailouts to prevent their failure.

But, I have to question whether we do let some fail. Debtors fail to pay their creditors all the time. When they fail to pay, the banks foreclose, and I think both sides consider this a failure.

Contrast that to when the banks became illiquid due to issuing bad loans. We forgive their errors in judgement to prevent their ultimate failure.

I don’t think the evidence supports the claim that we have decided not to let anyone fail. I think we are very selective in who is saved from failure, and at whose expense.

Fraker's March 17, 2012 (3:43 pm)

Lonnie,

You’re still not getting it, even yet.

The only reason you have to blame so-called “bad loans” on the person making the loan, instead of blaming the person taking-out the loan, is your pure frustration over having effectively agreed to partner with all of these people who brought the economy down by taking-out bad loans!

When “they” is actually YOUUUUUUUUUUUUU (by virtue of the partnership to which you long-ago agreed), then you realistically have nobody else to blame but your ‘partners’. Now why don’t you go throw a brick at a Boeing building just to let off a little steam?

This is your just dessert when you (and your partners, who took out bad loan after bad loan), are the ones who chose the representatives OF your partnership who created the basic parameters for such loans.