A rant & 2 raves

Not related but we’re putting them all in the same post for balance. First the rant and side-note rave, from the WSB inbox:

Sunday there was some guy parked sideways across the
Roxbury Schucks’ ONLY disabled parking spot. I very politely let them
know as I walked in, so they could take care of it. The response? A

I walked through the store to see if they had what I wanted, and heard
the two guys who were working there begin talking. They were talking in
what they thought was a “retarded” voice and saying stuff like “heh,
look at me – I’m handi-CAPABLE!” It went on for 2-3 minutes getting
more and more stupid, and more and more insulting. I finally walked out,
glaring at them. They didn’t even notice. (FYI, I use a cane due to a
spine problem)

Yes, I will be writing a letter to the CEO. I’m really pissed.

What saved my mood was that afterward I went to Tony’s (he had fresh
Okra! And corn picked that morning!) Tony was there. He gave me a great
deal on a flat of strawberries. And he insisted on carrying my bags to
the car for me since the “other half” wasn’t there. He’s a big sweetie.

The other rave we wanted you to hear about was this nice tale from the WS Herald Letters to the Editor.

51 Replies to "A rant & 2 raves"

  • Bill August 22, 2007 (7:41 am)

    Yesterday I did some laundry. Thought I lost a sock, which really ruined my day. Then I found it and felt much better. After that I had the most wonderful lunch (salmon sandwich…yummy!). Almost had dessert, but decided not to.

  • Thomas August 22, 2007 (8:05 am)

    It’s Roxbury. What did you expect, a couple of gentlemen? They probably live in a storage unit.

  • The House August 22, 2007 (8:08 am)

    I’ve been to that SCHUCKS twice and I’m positive that they employ the mentally retarded, so if might be legitimate.

  • MAS August 22, 2007 (8:34 am)

    Today my wife’s car got another flat tire (third in 2 months) which will really mess her day up.

    Fortunately, it’s not me so my day is going great! I think I’ll celebrate my good fortune with a smoked salmon fettuccine in garlic cream sauce for lunch (yum!) Later, I might go shopping for shoelaces.

  • Jan August 22, 2007 (8:51 am)

    you may make light of this, but…being a disabled person has it’s drawbacks, especially when parking. It is insensitive at best to make fun of this complaint. We, as a society, should be better than that. I, too, walk with a cane, because of arthritis. I’m an intelligent , working member of your community. I require the extra room that disabled parking provides in order to get out of my car with the door wide open. Jerks that take up the disabled parking spots are just that…jerks…and those that make fun of someone in this predicament are a close second…remember…you, too, may be in the same place one of these days.

  • Dale Roose August 22, 2007 (9:31 am)

    I can’t recall clearly, is Schuck’s disabled parking space the closest space to the door as it’s supposed to be? Is it van accessible with an 8′ access aisle adjacent to it? Imagine if these employees had demonstrated this degree of discrimination toward African Americans or Jews. Incidents like this are the reason why I nag my U.S. Representative to finally begin funding of full enforcement of the Americans with Disabilities Act which should protect all disabled Americans and not just rich golfers who can afford lawyers. As a person with a disability who does my own auto maintenance, I’d rather go to NAPA anyway.

  • misty August 22, 2007 (9:36 am)

    I can’t believe that some of these comments are so rude and patronizing! I am not a disabled person, and I can’t begin to imagine the challenges that disabled people face on a day-to-day basis. While I try to regularly feel grateful for my health, I know that there is so much that I take for granted. If you think this was a lame complaint, simply move on, and save your heartless comments.

  • Bill August 22, 2007 (9:38 am)

    Jan: You missed the point. Stop being so sensitive. A complaint to Schucks management is justified. I’d never shop there again if I were that person. The individual could have stopped there without the email to WSB, whiny “poor me” attitude, and saccharine Thomas Kinkade portrait of Tony’s. The world is full of jerks and unfortunate situations. Either dwell on the negative and perpetuate it with “poor me” messages to the world (remember the Starbucks raspberry syrup saga?), or shrug it off and realize you don’t HAVE to let the jerks win.

  • Luckie August 22, 2007 (9:53 am)

    Thanks for letting us know about these guys at Roxbury Schucks. I will think twice about ever buying anything there now. Refusing to patronize dicks is one way I fight my personal War On Dickishness.

    As you note, Tony is not a dick. It is pleasure to shop at Tony’s produce stand, and I do so often.

    Remember: When you patronize stores that willingly employ dicks, the dicks have won.

  • Sue August 22, 2007 (10:19 am)

    Jan, I totally agree with you. I have a handicapped parking permit in my car, and I am finding it difficult to find spots sometimes because of illegal parking, or stores thinking it’s okay to use those spots as loading zones. Nobody seems to take it seriously when we mention it in the store. Then I deal with the taunts from people because I don’t “look” handicapped just because I don’t have a cane, walker, etc.

  • Dale Roose August 22, 2007 (10:33 am)

    Sue, I was in Jefferson Square recently and the parking lot was about half full but all the disabled parking spots were full and a FedEx van was parked in the access aisle of the van accessible parking spot. Two of us with disabled parking plates had to took over three spaces in front of the drug store which doesn’t even have disabled parking at the entrance. Perhaps more contact with the Seattle Dept of Civil Rights Enforcement would help.

  • A August 22, 2007 (11:10 am)

    Thank you to those who are clued in. To those who are making fun, I hope you never join the ranks of the disabled. Remember it’s the ONLY minority group you can join at any time. All it takes is one accident or illness, even a sprained ankle can really knock your routine for a loop. Imagine having to deal with it forever. And by making fun, you’re just as bad as those jerks at Schucks. It’s NOT ok to park in the disabled spot “just for a second while you run in for something” – it’s not a convenience spot for the lazy.

    Jan, Misty and Sue, maybe we should form a “gimpy West Seattle” group of sorts and have coffee some weekend. Jan: I have a form of Arthritis as well. It’s a whole lot less than fun at times. Overall though, i’m glad I have it. It’s made me a stronger, better person.

  • Flowerpetal August 22, 2007 (11:29 am)

    I’m a bit disturbed at what feels like a classist statement about Roxbury and the expectations for that street.
    Even more disturbing is the employee behavior at Schucks. There’s too many other parts stores to be shopping there again.

  • Dale Roose August 22, 2007 (11:50 am)

    Bill, discrimination and violations of civil rights justify more than a complaint to management both ethically and legally. The writer has legal rights for recourse under both federal and Washington States laws banning discrimination against the disabled. The reason this sort of abuse against the disabled and other minorities goes on is because we put up with it and let others get away with calling us “whiney” when we take any real actions in defense of our rights.

  • Bill August 22, 2007 (1:00 pm)

    Dale: Perhaps the writer should sue the pants off Schucks then. You know, for “discrimination and violation of civil rights”. I called the writer “whiney” because he/she felt compelled to write to WSB and include some happy sappy tangent about Tony’s. You folks who choose to get indignant are off target. I agree with your sentiments, FWIW. I’ve personally never parked in a disabled spot and I don’t poke fun at disabled people. Go ahead and climb off those soapboxes. Perhaps your time would be better spent picketing the store in question…if you really feel that strongly about it.

  • Denise August 22, 2007 (1:25 pm)

    If a handicapped spot is blocked, folks need to call the police. Staff in any building do not have the authority to make someone move or ticket the individual. Reporting it to staff does not resolve you from the responsibility of the followup with the proper authorities.

  • Jan August 22, 2007 (1:28 pm)

    The way I see it, Bill, is that this woman had every right to write to WSB, just as the woman who didn’t like the Short Stop sign wrote in. Perhaps her point was to enlighten us all as to correct behavior towards others in general, and the disabled in particular….and, perhaps she wanted to enlighten the “bad parker” who took up the spaces in the first place. It was simply a reminder to all of us that, as it said a few posts ago, these are not parking spaces for the terminally lazy. Yes, I’m sensitive to this..I have every right to be…and I have no use for people who make fun of it. We are a wonderful diverse group here…this is a wonderful blog…and I don’t think that anyone needs to make a list of rules as to what should or should not be posted on here.

    And…House…the term “mentally retarded” is passe…denigrating…and ignorant…even if used in jest….just my opinion…

    everyone have a safe and happy day :)

  • Dale Roose August 22, 2007 (1:32 pm)

    Bill, while we have the legal right to sue, the reality is that most of us can’t afford to hire an attorney. The Department of Justice is charged with enforcing the Americans with Disabilities Act, but Congress never funded it. Since this happened in the county, it might be worth filing a complaint with the state Attorney General for enforcement under state civil rights laws. Writing on WSB is essentially the electronic version of picketing the store as you suggested so I don’t see your problem with that. People often write on WSB about other law violations in West Seattle. If the writer only complains to the store manager and it isn’t handled well, the next person with a disability who goes in the store, possibly me, could be treated much worse or even refused service completely. I’m sick and tired of running into barriers at public places and I shouldn’t have to picket every store to get equal access without discrimination and harassment nor should I have to defend myself for standing up for my legal rights. It’s this attitude that the disabled should just bend over and take it quietly that’s the fundamental problem.

  • misty August 22, 2007 (1:49 pm)

    As I see it, the bottomline is that nobody (disabled or not) should be treated the way this person was treated. I can’t imagine overhearing store clerks making fun of me! And, the person who wrote in about this probably just needed to “be heard”. Perhaps the “tony’s part” of the story didn’t really apply to the Schucks part, but it shows that simple acts of kindness can really go a long way for people.

  • Dale Roose August 22, 2007 (2:23 pm)

    misty, that’s exactly right that nobody should have to put up with it, but the disabled encounter it because people have a conscious or subconscious perception that we deserve it for being lesser people because of our disability. We define disability by comparison of our abilities with those of the majority as a standard. Put a sighted person and a blind person in an unfamiliar room with the lights off, for example, and we’ll see who’s disabled. Some disabilities are disabilities only because our environment by design accommodates the majority without considering the needs of minorities. Speaking abusively about the disabled as if they aren’t present happens because of social acceptance of bigotry against the disabled which is why it happens to us more often and why we have another reason to complain. Much less often does a salesperson make fun of a customer for being average. But yes, that’s a good point that anybody should have a right to vent about being mistreated.

  • Dale Roose August 22, 2007 (2:41 pm)

    Denise, why should people with disabilities bear any greater responsibility for enforcement of disabled parking than employees with access to a telephone? Should the disabled person go back home and call the police rather than bothering the business? If a person were mugged in the parking lot and asked an employee for help, would that be a defense for taunting the person?

  • Dale Roose August 22, 2007 (3:09 pm)

    If you’re disabled and have a cellphone, you can carry the following phone numbers to report illegal parking in a disabled parking space (including the access aisle): Seattle police non-emergency (206) 625-5011; King County Sheriff (206) 296-4155. Remember to report the license plate number of the vehicle because the police probably won’t get there until long after both you and the offender have left.

  • misty August 22, 2007 (3:11 pm)

    Dale, do you have to be disabled to report illegal parking in a disabled parking space?

  • Dale Roose August 22, 2007 (3:18 pm)

    misty, anybody can report illegal parking in a disabled parking space.

  • Bill August 22, 2007 (3:30 pm)

    Anyone see the “Curb Your Enthusiasm” episode where the disabled guy gets mad b/c Larry David is parked in a disabled spot (b/c it’s the only open one)….then Larry encounters the same guy in the bathroom using a non-disabled stall (b/c it’s the only open one)? :)

  • Dale Roose August 22, 2007 (3:51 pm)

    Bill, no I didn’t see it but I often park in non-disabled parking spaces for a variety of reasons. Some businesses still don’t have any disabled parking. Sometimes they wrongly locate the disabled parking away from the entrance, even at the back of the lot. Sometimes there’s hardly anybody in the lot but the disabled parking is occupied. As the baby boomers age, it’s reasonable to expect that there will be more people with disabilities and already the ratio of disabled parking to non-disabled parking is often too low. What happens if we get to where the disabled become the majority and the non-disabled have to keep circling the block until a space becomes available only to finally get in then be taunted by salespeople in wheelchairs?

  • Jan August 22, 2007 (3:53 pm)

    you really don’t quit, do you, Bill. You obviously don’t get it. While you might think that there’s equality in everything, it simply isn’t that way. Ask me how many times I go into a restroom, and someone who is NOT disabled is using the disabled stall. I get your point…I still disagree with it……

  • Chet August 22, 2007 (3:56 pm)

    FYI the non emergency line is a joke. I’ve called several times over the years for much more serious violations and never had any response from the police or parking enforcement, whatever the case may be. When I followed up, they were always able to say oh we had an accident we had to investigate, etc, etc .. Good luck!

  • Ginger Rodgers August 22, 2007 (4:14 pm)

    I am sorry that the Roxbury Schucks people where so horrible. They should be ashamed talking / behaving toward another person so badly.

    Your post is noted and I will spend my money at Tony’s and not at the Roxbury Schucks in support.

  • Keith August 22, 2007 (5:11 pm)

    I feel badly for the person who sent this in. All they were doing was relating how one experience at a West Seattle business was a bummer, the other was great. Both stories were examples of the kind of service & attitude the disabled (or anyone) might encounter (or expect) from these businesses. Isn’t this sort of thing the point of this site?

  • alkisw August 22, 2007 (5:11 pm)

    Jan, just curious but are those bathroom stalls really only intended to be used by people who are disabled? I know code requires that it exist but I did not know there was a law (except common courtesy) which required reserving it for those who are disabled. Guilty.

  • WSB August 22, 2007 (5:28 pm)

    Keith — certainly “this sort of thing” is part of OUR intention for WSB — news, information, sharing of experiences and recommendations and warnings and ideas, etc. — the site continues to evolve all the time; what it is now is wildly different from what we thought we were creating when we started it. The discussions do take surprise turns, to say the least! We’re currently revising our FAQ and we probably should add a caveat, when people send us something to share, be aware that the resulting discussion may take odd turns. But the ultimate point is already made by the sharing itself, we think … everything after that is a side note.

  • Bill August 22, 2007 (5:44 pm)

    Dale: “What happens if we get to where the disabled become the majority and the non-disabled…” We’re well on our way, buddy. When everyone’s got the latest ailment they saw on primetime teevee last night. Seems like everything’s a “disability” these days. While genuine cases obviously exist, there are plenty that work the system. Everyone knows it. Too fat and lazy to control your diabetes isn’t a disability. It’s stupidity. I’ve worked with too many “disabled” people to be fooled into thinking everyone with a blue and white sticker deserves the red carpet treatment. And I’ve worked with too many very disabled people that jump into life headfirst to think they’re all pity cases that demand special treatment 24/7.

    Jan: Get over your over-earnest self. Feeling everyone else’s pain while playing victim must be exhausting. Some of you are so ready to self flagellate over the cause-du-jour. You know what? **** happens. And some of you have taken this thread as an opportunity to vent whatever pent up frustrations you have as a disabled person at whoever you “think” disagrees with you. Done with this subject now…I’m not the one you’re mad at.

  • Sue August 22, 2007 (6:18 pm)

    Alkisw, I don’t believe it is a law that they can only be used by the disabled – just that they must be provided for them.
    Keep in mind, however, there are many “hidden disabilities.” Many people, myself included, do not outwardly look disabled. I have been verbally attacked for using handicapped stalls when, in fact, I do need them from time to time. (My mobility varies from day to day.) In one venue (not here in Seattle) I was actually DENIED use of it because I didn’t look like I needed it. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt that they need it since not every disabled person is identified by a cane, walker or wheelchair.

  • Sue August 22, 2007 (6:21 pm)

    “Jan, Misty and Sue, maybe we should form a “gimpy West Seattle” group of sorts and have coffee some weekend.”
    That would be fun, A. Jan and I still need to get together for some shoofly pie. Maybe we can get a group to share war stories. :)

  • Jan August 22, 2007 (7:11 pm)

    Sue…yes…I have driven by Shoofly, and have not succumbed as of yet…maybe we could call ourselves the Gimpy Griping Girls of West Seattle. I’m up for it. Coffee and pie…yum…

  • Jan August 22, 2007 (7:19 pm)

    Bill, it sounds like you’ve had some bad experiences with disabled people..maybe you should join our coffee and pie group and have a laugh or two with us..we are not all self-flagellating (well, not most of the time – hehe)…nor do many of us feel sorry for ourselves or work the system. Yes…I think you need to join us for coffee and pie :)

  • Bill August 22, 2007 (8:15 pm)

    Thanks for the invite Jan. I’ve had both good and bad experiences. From people I know for a fact faked disability, to men with half their bodies blown off. I do admit I’ve seen so many extremely injured/disabled people, I have a hard time feeling bad for someone who was mildly inconvenienced by some random jerks.

  • The House August 22, 2007 (8:26 pm)

    Bill, I appreciate your comments. You were reading my mind on several of your points. I’ve hemmed and hawed with Jan & the crew for a long time now and I think we’ve agreed to disagree. You got further than I did though….she at least invited you to pie.

    Safe to say…DON’T SHOP AT SCHUCKS…I went into the tiny NAPA Auto parts store by Safeway on Roxbury and he was much more informative than Shucks.

  • Dale Roose August 22, 2007 (8:31 pm)

    Bill, as a person who can’t work, people who fake disability to get out of working probably anger me more than they anger you. People who take jobs then get paid while standing around insulting customers instead of working anger me even more. Patients and doctors both tend to accept the most available diagnosis when they don’t know the real cause because that’s basic human psychology and it happens all the time. But a misdiagnosis doesn’t mean the disease doesn’t exist or we could cure cancer by misdiagnosing it at something else. When people ignorantly assume that every person they see who’s fat must be gluttons, that’s just bigotry. There are diseases that cause both weight gain and diabetes. A lot of doctors have bigoted attitudes against people with chronic illness because people with chronic illness are too sick to get through medical school so we’re not represented. And when a person is in severe pain or heart failure and at risk of passing out or has to use a walker to keep from falling, having parking near the door is hardly rolling out the red carpet. I’ll trade my disabled parking permit for a cure any day. Some diseases are very complex and some wax and wane over time making diagnoses difficult even for trained professionals. No auto parts counterperson has the ability to divine on sight whether or not a person is really disabled or is deserving of derision because he or she uses a cane. I hope in fairness that somebody tells the people at Schuck’s about this discussion so we can hear their side.

  • Dale Roose August 22, 2007 (9:02 pm)

    Bill, when discrimination happens enough to prevent you from being able to live a relatively normal life, when you can’t go into a store or are asked to leave because the aisles are too narrow for a wheelchair, when you can’t get work for decades, the general attitude is more than just being “mildly inconvenienced by some random jerks.” You don’t know what each of us has lived through. And you can’t judge the degree of disability by appearance. A person could be brain dead or paralyzed, for example, yet look perfectly healthy. I wonder if you’d been so upset over a non-disabled person complaining about rude service at some local store or is it just that people with disabilities shouldn’t have the same right to complain?

  • Picklemom August 23, 2007 (12:28 am)

    Bill and MAS, you both seem to have a humor disability. Mocking the original poster about a positive experience at Tony’s is immature, mean-spirited, and not even remotely witty. I’m sure the vast majority of WSB readers were happy to read the rave for Tony’s. Let’s not be schmucks – we’ll leave that to Schuck’s.

  • Jan August 23, 2007 (12:37 am)

    Hey….House…you can come for pie, too…and we can disagree over which one tastes better :)

  • Bill August 23, 2007 (10:30 am)

    Dale: Stop fishing for the discrimination fish. I am 100% for equal access. But whiny is whiny. Whether black, white, red, yellow, disabled, short, tall, skinny, etc… Call me an equal opportunity ***hole if you like. I can live with it.
    Picklemom: Thanks. I won’t be xpecting you at any of my stand-up gigs.
    House: This seems to be (maybe the only) one thing we agree on so far. I’m a (surprisingly?) rabid social liberal with the strange idea that personal accountability matters. I don’t have any use for people who define their entire being with some buzzword, and expect others to jump in the deep end with them. Empathy and sympathy are often confused by those folks.

  • Dis August 23, 2007 (2:01 pm)

    You go, Bill!

  • MAS August 23, 2007 (5:46 pm)

    As one of the people that also made fun of the sappy part of the post (along with Bill) I should mention that when my own back problems are at their worst, I WISH I could get by with a cane, rather than crutches. This wasn’t about being insensitive to the comments about Schucks. From what the original poster said, these folks are idiots and deserve to be facing legal action based on their discriminatory behavior.

    I guess what seems odd about much of the follow-up is that if someone is disabled, we aren’t allowed to make fun of their writing, even if writing has nothing to do with their disability. I should have a chat with my editors about their horrible insensitivity in handing me back redlines, considering my own mobility problems…

  • Jan August 23, 2007 (6:06 pm)

    we all understand where your insensitivity lies…definitely not with Schucks…it was more aobut the person who was writing. Some of us simply see things differently than you. To me, it’s OK to make fun of circumstances, things, but not people who might not be exactly like you (unless, perhaps they are Paris Hilton – lol) Guess I should extend the invite for pie and coffee to you , too, MAS :)

  • MAS August 23, 2007 (6:48 pm)

    And of course I agree you with Jan, which is why I didn’t make fun of a person, just a writing style. I can’t even see perfect from where I sit, so folks make fun of my writing, my style sense, my color blindness and my hairstyle all of the time. Since none of those things define me, I’m not offended.

    Since Paris and I are identical twins, separated at birth though – I’m not sure what you mean about it being fair game to pick on sis.

    That said, Mmmmmm Pie.


  • Jan August 23, 2007 (7:41 pm)

    MAS….I think your hairstyle is great ;-)

  • t. luis August 23, 2007 (8:28 pm)

    “Call me an equal opportunity ***hole if you like. I can live with it.”

    Bill, okay. I will. You are. To make fun of circumstance, yes, life, is one thing, but to take up with discrimination–and your de facto support of it is yet another. Your assumption that folks with disabilities want only pity and cannot be self sufficient…well, pull your head out and look around, man. As a matter of fact, it sounds like you think that this is true of all social and cultural minorities…

    Again, you are.

  • Bill August 23, 2007 (10:20 pm)

    T. Luis: Don’t care if you think I’m an ***hole, but “…take up with discrimination”? Oh my gosh. How did I know some silly dunce would cherry pick my comments and leap to moronic conclusions? Had to happen. Please don’t tell any of my asian, black, homosexual, christian, athiest, buddhist, deaf, jewish, physically disabled, middle eastern, rich, or middle class friends about my secret prejudices. All aboard on the righteousness train! Real prejudice is NOT treating everyone the same. Real discrimination is NOT seeing past the speech impediment or wheelchair. I thought the original post was sappy and cheeseball. Case closed. I don’t care if a bedridden leper wrote it. Some of you seem to want to define yourselves or others by a disability. Realize, acknowledge, and move on. Don’t wallow in it. How would you feel knowing the person making these comments is wheelchair bound? Does/should it matter to you?

Sorry, comment time is over.