West Seattle, Washington
06 Monday
In case you wondered about a big police presence in the Genesee area this past hour – Seattle Police are trying to sort out a collision involving one of their cars and an SUV (not pictured) near 48th and Andover. No serious injuries, we’re told, and nobody had to go to the hospital. We don’t know anything at this point about the circumstances of today’s crash, but commenters brought up safety concerns about this intersection back in April, when a crash left a car upside-down.
P.S. Thanks to the WSB’er who texted us about the SPD involvement – otherwise, this was noted only as a “motor vehicle accident” on the Fire Department log, not an indicator of unusual circumstances, and we might have missed it. Text or voice: 206-293-6302 any time.
6:50 PM UPDATE: More info has just been published on SPD Blotter:
A female officer sustained minor injuries in an intersection-related collision today in West Seattle. At approximately 12:26 p.m. today a Southwest Precinct patrol officer was driving her marked police car eastbound on SW Andover Street approaching 48th Avenue SW, an uncontrolled intersection. At the same time a civilian-driven passenger vehicle was approaching the same intersection northbound on 48th Avenue SW. The two vehicles collided in the intersection and both drivers sustained minor injuries.
The civilian was treated and released from the scene by fire department medics. The officer was transported by police vehicle to an area hospital for follow up evaluation and treatment. Both vehicles sustained disabling damage and were towed from the scene.
There were no citations issued at the scene pending further investigation and collision reconstruction.
Traffic Collision Investigation Squad detectives responded to the scene and continue to actively investigate.
1:53 PM: At City Hall, Mayor McGinn just announced $400,000 will be added to the Seattle Police budget for violence-prevention patrols in trouble spots citywide. Obviously downtown is in the spotlight right now as one of those spots, but he stressed they’ll use data from around the city to decide where else to spend the money. It’ll largely go toward overtime for officers on the force now – Interim Chief Jim Pugel says that’s about 180 hours a month – though 30 more hires are in the SPD pipeline for the next year. The mayor is still answering questions at a live briefing right now; we’ll add the full announcement when it’s available.
2:11 PM: The mayor’s briefing is over. It was noted by at least one reporter in attendance that this came several hours after City Council President Sally Clark and Councilmembers Bruce Harrell and Tim Burgess – present and past chairs of the Public Safety (etc.) Committee – published an item on the Council Connection website in essence challenging the mayor to do more.
5:53 PM: We promised we’d add the announcement when the news release turned up – here it is.
We received this earlier this week from Kent and Parris Sadow, proprietors of Atomic Boys in the Admiral District. They wondered if we might share the vignette about what happened to their son Monday:
Our 16 year old was skateboarding home when he fell hard. Just by chance, a Seattle police officer happened to see him fall. The officer took the time to stop his car and check on our son, checking for any real injuries, and even asking concussion related questions. Once he determined that nothing more serious than a banged-up elbow resulted, the officer still then insisted on giving our son a ride back to his friend’s house nearby to clean up his elbow.
I wish we knew the officer’s name, but unfortunately our son did not notice. Maybe if he sees this on the West Seattle Blog he will get our thanks. We always hear of typical police activity, but this was to us above and beyond the normal, and just genuinely really nice.
Glad to start Friday with some “nice.”
(SCROLL DOWN for latest update – adding the first car reported to have been hit by the stolen truck)
10:37 AM: A Seattle Police car was hit and seriously damaged in the Morgan Junction area – and police are looking for the pickup truck driver who did it – he might be on the run in Gatewood. The truck is described as a ’98 gray Chevy pickup with landscaping equipment. According to scanner traffic, the officer driving the damaged car is not hurt. More to come.
(Added photo – tweeted by Robert)
10:45 AM: Co-publisher Patrick Sand was in the area when this happened. Police at the scene tell him that an officer checked the plate on the truck as it headed westbound on Fauntleroy and discovered it was stolen. They tried to pull it over and that’s when it hit the patrol car and took off, headed eventually into Gatewood, where they are still searching. The truck itself has been found.
10:49 AM: Suspect is in custody in Gatewood. Just added our photo of damaged SPD car in Morgan Junction. Engine 37 has been dispatched because the suspect, described as 23 years old, is complaining of an injury.
11:04 AM: At least one TV helicopter is in the area trying to get some visuals on this.
11:18 AM: Traffic is blocked southbound on California at the crash scene south of Fauntleroy until the damaged police car is towed. The suspect is reported to be facing potential charges of assaulting an officer as well as hit-run. We also confirmed directly with police at the arrest scene that, as we’d heard via radio communication earlier, the officer whose car was hit was not hurt.
11:35 AM: We’ve learned the truck was reported stolen from the Admiral/Alki area and apparently hit a car there before continuing on to the Morgan Junction area where the incident with police happened.
11:43 AM: SPD Blotter has just posted its summary, saying the car hit in Upper Alki contained someone who had reported the theft to 911.
12:26 PM: That’s the car hit in Upper Alki. We talked with its owner and the owner of the stolen truck. They told us that the truck’s owner was doing work at Cactus on Alki, packing up to leave, stepped away from the truck for just a moment – and that’s when the thief jumped in and took off. The Audi’s driver was a Cactus employee who saw it happen and followed the truck while calling 911; he says the thief noticed he was being followed and pulled the same maneuver that was used to hit the SPD car later – put the truck into reverse and deliberately back into the vehicle behind him.
9:19 PM: Police are searching for a suspect in a reported stabbing in the 6300 block of 42nd SW in Morgan Junction. According to scanner, traffic, the suspect is reported to have left northbound on 42nd in a red car. The dispatch is “assault with weapons/aid,” which suggests the injuries might not be major. More as we get it.
9:21 PM UPDATE: Police now report catching up with the/a suspect. Meantime, the 911 log has added more units and upgraded this to a “7 per” call, which suggests the injury could be worse than first reported. We have learned that the call originally was dispatched for a 21-year-old pregnant female victim possibly stabbed in the arm.
9:32 PM UPDATE: Our crew on the scene says police are describing this as a case of domestic violence, and is also being told there are NO major injuries involved. Investigators are still trying to sort out exactly what happened.
10:50 PM UPDATE: SPD confirms via Twitter that the victim was not seriously injured (“superficial wounds”) and that a suspect is in custody.
Officers are in the 5400 block of West Marginal Way SW right now, waiting for the Medical Examiner to come for a body found in a railroad car, according to the Seattle Police Twitter feed:
Deceased man found inside railroad car at cement factory. Death appears to be accidental –NOT SUSPICIOUS. … Body appears to be several days old … it’s possible death did not occur in Seattle. Identity of the deceased & cause of death to be determined & released by the medical examiner. No indications of foul play.
The address given by police, and shown on the Seattle Fire 911 log, cross-references to the Lafarge plant. SPD also tweeted that the railroad car has been in Eastern Washington recently, so that’s why they say the death might have occurred elsewhere.
Lots of discussion of, and deliberation on, policies regarding our state’s legalization of marijuana in recent months – but here’s the first time we’ve seen this come up: An agenda just landed in the inbox for a special meeting of the City Council’s Housing, Human Services, Health, and Culture Committee this Friday at 2 pm. City Attorney Pete Holmes is scheduled to lead a 20-minute briefing titled “City Policies on Public Consumption of Marijuana.” We’re checking with the City Attorney’s Office for a preview; we’re wondering, though – what do YOU think those policies should be?
ADDED 1:19 PM: City Attorney’s Office spokesperson Kimberly Mills says this is related to a request for an ordinance to be drafted, and sends along a statement from Holmes:
We highly recommend avoiding the Lincoln Park area right now. Besides a major ferry-line backup for several reasons, there’s also a police response. Multiple WSB’ers had texted us about SPD cars heading somewhere in a hurry, and Bill solves the mystery:
Noticed a police car blocking Fauntleroy at Monroe a few minutes ago. Several more came up soon after. Walked down the street to get a look… total of 8 squad cars. 1 guy in cuffs on the sidewalk in front of Lincoln Park, another (apparently the victim or a witness) talking to police. Asked an officer what happened and he said the guy pulled a knife on someone. Police confiscated a bike and backpack too.
Working to find out more. But if you saw a TV helicopter earlier and/or TV truck at the park – this is NOT what they’re covering – they headed over for the wading-pool-closure story.
(With the mayor: SW Precinct Capt. Joe Kessler, center, and Lt. Ron Smith, right)
After a tour of West Seattle with Seattle Police‘s West Seattle leadership, Mayor McGinn met the media (WSB and three TV stations showed up) this morning for a Q/A session outside the Southwest Precinct. He’s been doing this at every precinct; West Seattle was originally scheduled for July 5th, but breaking news that day elsewhere in the city forced a postponement to today. First, here’s our video of today’s entire 32-minute briefing/Q-A session with the mayor and precinct commander Capt. Joe Kessler:
We asked about something that was a hot topic on the post-Independence Day Friday when this event was originally scheduled – this year’s fireworks craziness, which was not just a West Seattle hot topic (we saw it come up on multiple neighborhood sites around the city, as well as sparking regional-media coverage). The mayor agreed there would need to be “a dialogue” before next Fourth of July, but also insisted “the community” would have to step up here, since it was beyond SPD’s ability to deal with possibly thousands of violations. We also asked about the status of the SPD surveillance cameras installed from Fauntleroy to Alki to Harbor Island and beyond (our coverage archive is here), which the mayor had said would not be activated until a “thorough public vetting” had taken place. The next step, he said, would be for “protocols” to go to the City Council, at which time there would be more public vetting; no timetable so far, though originally, when we first reported on this almost six months ago, SPD was working toward a March 31 target for activation.
While robbery and burglary numbers for the Southwest Precinct were higher in the first half of this year than a year earlier, Capt. Kessler said they had dropped in recent weeks due to some key arrests. Having reported some of those arrests here, we asked the mayor if his administration works with King County on issues such as prosecution of the suspects; he said they do. (No specifics.) Capt. Kessler also mentioned that SPD has changed up its Alki patroling strategy to some degree this summer, focusing on nighttime rather than daytime, and so far, no major problems. Alki was part of the tour the mayor took before the precinct Q/A; he said he also had visited High Point to talk about issues such as those raised at last week’s community meeting (WSB coverage here) and had been to the “Nickelsville” encampment – where, he said, the population has been going up, not down (we have heard a recent estimate of 170). On our video, you’ll also hear the mayor answering some non-WS questions asked by the TV crews.
The entire visit was pegged to a followup on the Safe Communities initiative, which included a meeting here in West Seattle nine months ago (WSB coverage here). A city staffer handed out paper copies of a handout with West Seattle-specific toplines on how concerns raised at that time had been dealt with since; we’re checking to see if we can get a digital copy to attach here.
ADDED: Here’s the aforementioned report.
After we reported Sunday on the stolen pickup spotted by WSB reader James, whose 911 call led to two arrests (one in his photo above), police reported finding the truck full of stolen items. And they have just published an SPD Blotter update with 70 photos of some of the items, in hopes of getting them back to their owners. Here’s just one of the photos, showing some of the items, which range from camera equipment to jewelry to books and more:
Too many photos for us to republish the other 60-plus here – so please go directly to SPDB to have a look.
Meantime, both suspects, a 20-year-old man and 33-year-old woman, remain in the King County Jail, as noted in our Monday followup, and we’ll have another update later when the King County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office announces its decision on new charges against them. Both already had prior warrants out for their arrest.
5:18 PM UPDATE: King County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office spokesperson Ian Goodhew tells WSB charges were filed against either suspect today because they did not receive the case from police as a “rush file.” That means the $20,000 bail set for each has been dropped – the law sets a deadline for releasing suspects if they are not charged. However, each suspect still has unresolved warrants, and that means her bail is now at $15,000, his at $10,000, according to their current statuses on the jail register; we will be watching to see if that changes. Goodhew says, “We are following up with SPD and asking them to get us the cases ASAP so we can evaluate and file if possible.”
The myths and truths about sex offenders and how police deal with them were at the heart of a briefing this past week at the West Seattle Block Watch Captains’ Network meeting. With the detectives hailing from the SPD Sex Offender and Kidnap Detail, the discussion ranged far and wide, including concerns about the recent White Center kidnap attempt, though that was outside SPD’s jurisdiction (the King County Sheriff’s Office is responsible for the unincorporated area south of the city limits). Our video includes the entirety of the meeting, led primarily by SPD Detective Tim Fields, with information about everything from the law to what you tell your children if a sex offender is living nearby; the detectives advised showing your children the photo and telling them to stay away from the offender.
P.S. Though we do receive occasional notifications from police about offenders moving into the area, and we publish them when we get them – such as this recent one – such notifications are NOT sent for everyone who moves into the area, and the best way for you to find out if one or more are living nearby is to use this lookup. That link is also reachable via a page on the SPD website that includes some context on the notification laws, including a reminder that most convicted criminals classified as sex offenders are “Level 1” – the lowest-severity level – and NOT covered by the notification rules.
SIDE NOTE FOR THOSE OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS: Toward the end, the North Highline Unincorporated Area Council was mentioned; it’s had a strong focus on public-safety information for the communities it serves. Its meeting schedule currently varies, rather than being on a fixed date each and every month, but in addition to watching for notices on our partner site White Center Now (we’ve been mentioning their public-safety forums here too), you can also check its website at northhighlineuac.org.
Back on Friday, we mentioned briefly on the WSB Facebook page that police had responded to a Hiawatha-area call about students burning homework papers after the last day of the school year. Turns out that wasn’t the only paper-burning call they handled that day – SPD Blotter has just published this saga of a Schmitz Park incident hours later.
Three West Seattle Crime Watch notes: First, a South Delridge domestic-violence call on Saturday afternoon almost turned into a SWAT standoff – we, in fact, were on the way to it after hearing word of a road closure, when the SWAT team was canceled after the suspect’s arrest. Police have published the story via SPD Blotter, including this photo of a hidden compartment in a sofa where they say they found the suspect hiding:
SPD also reports finding three guns in plain sight in the apartment – all pointed out by a 3-year-old girl who, along with a younger child, had been there when the victim was assaulted earlier. The suspect was booked into jail.
Two reader reports now – starting with this one about two stolen bicycles – including the one pictured below:
We would like to report two of our mountain bikes stolen from Verge Condos at 3213 Harbor Ave. SW sometime between 10:30 pm Friday night and 11:00 am Saturday morning. The bikes were stolen from our condo garage and the cable lock cut.
Bike descriptions:
Women’s Novara 2013 Pika Mountain Bike – light blue and white
Men’s Specialized Hard Rock Mountain Bike – royal blue and black
Let police know if you’ve seen them.
We also have word of a stolen go-kart:
That was reported by Shyla, who said it was taken from her backyard on June 6th, near 39th/104th in Arbor Heights, and she adds: “In light of the most recent arrest of a guy just a few blocks away from our house I’m guessing there might be a connection. Would just like people to see the kart in case it shows up around the neighborhood or garage sales.”
(WSB photos by Patrick Sand)
That letter from 1883 is from a shoebox full of what looks like family-history keepsakes, found this past Tuesday at 32nd and Barton. Seattle Police Southwest Precinct-based Officer Marc Sagmoen is trying to find out who the box belongs to, explaining, “The box contained numerous letters addressed to Gordon Yancey. Some of these letters were quite old and, although they may not be worth money, to the family who lost them, they may be priceless.” Mr. Yancey apparently lived in the Midwest, at least when the correspondence was sent:
After hearing about Officer Sagmoen’s find, we asked if we could get photos – so, for that, we went with him this morning to the SPD facility south of downtown where evidence is kept. There was even an old photo of Gordon Yancey, his wife, and daughter Leslie, undated, on a cruise vacation:
Other items in the box included this, dated 1832, apparently some kind of a receipt involving wheat-cutting:
If these items are yours – or if you have an idea whose they might be – any and all information is appreciated. Please call the precinct at 206-233-7854.
No injuries or arrests reported in a shots-fired incident tonight in the Ocean View area. So far the only official police information is from a tweet, but Tom has sent a firsthand report and photo of one of the casings found afterward:
At around 8:30 pm (tonight), a silver Acura Integra (with spoiler) stopped at the south end of 37th Ave SW where it meets 35th Ave SW. Inside the vehicle was a couple having a heated argument, drawing the attention of neighbors. They then continued north on 37th Ave SW and stopped a few houses south of the intersection of 37th Ave SW and SW Ocean View Drive where the argument continued and the male driver exited the vehicle and fired 7 shots in rapid succession into the air, leaving 9mm shell casings in the street. By this time the female was in the driver’s seat and noticed a neighbor looking out the window and warned the male to get back in the car, at which point they drove away from the scene eastbound on SW Ocean View Drive. SPD arrived and took statements including good descriptions of the 2 persons involved, and the car. No one was able to see the license plate.
(Photos by WSB co-publisher Patrick Sand – top photo substituted for earlier phone photo)
ORIGINAL REPORT, 3:02 PM: We’re still trying to sort out exactly what’s happening with a big police response in the 32nd/106th area of Arbor Heights. Radio communications indicate it’s a search for a burglary suspect. More as we get it.
3:26 PM UPDATE: The original scene is now clear – but we’re checking out another address where a suspect may have been spotted, in the 32nd/105th area.
3:37 PM UPDATE: … and we’ve found the police all back at the original house, where the suspect might be hiding. So this remains an active investigation, but focused at the moment on one particular location.
4:03 PM UPDATE: Police are focused on the back yard of a house at 32nd and 106th; they have a K-9 team, too.
4:19 PM UPDATE: Co-publisher Patrick Sand has spoken at the scene with SW Precinct Lt. Ron Smith (photo above, in blue). He says this was called in as “suspicious circumstances” – a man was spotted riding a bicycle, towing another bicycle, in possession of two backpacks. More tactical police reinforcements have arrived. Lt. Smith also confirmed they believe the suspect is 32-year-old Alan Polevia (we had heard the name on the scanner but wanted to confirm before publishing) – target of a search in Shorewood earlier this year, and prior to that, known for escaping from custody at Harborview while in handcuffs.
4:33 PM UPDATE: Suspect is out and in handcuffs.
5:24 PM UPDATE: We’re adding photos. Identity confirmed; police are checking on warrants. King County Jail records show Polevia spent three days in jail when finally arrested in late March, three weeks after the Shorewood search. On March 28th, he was charged with burglary and theft in connection with an incident that was reported here, involving a scooter taken in the 5000 block of 37th SW, and a search that eventually ended at 36th and Morgan. He didn’t appear for arraignment, so a warrant was issued for his arrest in April, according to court records.
8:57 PM UPDATE: Polevia is on the King County Jail Register as of about an hour ago, held on the aforementioned warrant and two others, as well as for investigation of unlawful firearm possession related to today’s events. This likely means he’ll have a bail hearing tomorrow; we’ll check with the King County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office in the morning. We have added one more photo, above, from this afternoon’s arrest.
By Tracy Record
West Seattle Blog editor
We’ve heard it before – yet people appreciate hearing it again:
What happens when you call 911? What can you do to make your call most effective?
The West Seattle Block Watch Captains’ Network devoted its most recent meeting to the topic – with answers to those questions and many more, as well as other insights.
Special guests from the Seattle Police Department 911 Call Center (WSB file photo at right) were Communications Section Operations Lieutenant Dave Proudfoot, and 911 Center training coordinator Rob Montague.
Lt. Proudfoot acknowledged, “We’re customer-service-oriented but it’s not the same as in the restaurant business.” He said he’s aware that sometimes operators are terse, almost too efficient, and that’s by design:
ORIGINAL REPORT, 9:14 PM: Seattle Police are looking for “a suspect firing a BB gun out a window near 42nd SW and SW Graham” this evening. They report via Twitter that a woman was walking with a man in that area when, she told officers, she was hit by a BB in her “lower body”; SPD says she declined medical attention, saying she wasn’t hurt. No other details so far.
12:48 AM UPDATE: New information from police – a 20-year-old man was arrested in connection with this incident. Their update on SPD Blotter says he was allegedly firing BBs out of a second-floor apartment window with an Airsoft rifle, targeting cans – but one ricocheted and hit the woman.
(WSB photo by Patrick Sand)
Fairmount Avenue through the ravine south of Harbor Avenue is closed to vehicle traffic right now for a police investigation, after an injured woman was found by the side of the road this morning. Investigators at the scene aren’t commenting, so we have a message out to the on-call SPD media-relations detective, but in the meantime, here’s what the woman who found her has told us:
She and a friend were driving down Fairmount to go for a run on Alki when they spotted the woman alongside the road. She described the victim as unconscious and obviously injured. The victim also is a runner, she told us – easy to tell, from what she was wearing and from accessories on and near her. She was found around 7 am; someone else who went through the area an hour earlier didn’t see her, our source says, so it might have happened between 6 and 7 am.
Medics took the victim to Harborview Medical Center, where a nursing supervisor tells us she is still being evaluated in the ER, so there’s no further information on her condition. The woman who found her told us police were looking into the possibility it might be a case of hit and run, which would explain why the investigators we spotted at the scene were from the Traffic Collision Investigation Squad, which is summoned to crash scenes that result in major injuries (or worse). But again, they weren’t commenting – and it’s clearly early in the investigation. While we work to find out more about this, the woman who found the victim wants to remind their fellow runners: “Be careful, don’t run alone.” We’ll add updates when we find out more, and will be checking to see when Fairmount reopens.
ADDED 11:51 AM: Just talked to Det. Jeff Kappel from Seattle Police media relations. He says the victim is 54 and has life-threatening injuries. Investigators still do not know exactly what happened – likely involved some kind of vehicle (not necessarily a car), but Det. Kappel stresses they can’t rule anything out yet, so if you saw anyone in that area early this morning, especially someone who seemed to be speeding away, please call 911 and let them know – any and all potential tips appreciated. (Here’s what he published to SPD Blotter a short time ago.)
SUNDAY NIGHT NOTE: No break in the case yet – we will be checking again with SPD first thing in the morning, as well as with Harborview, where the victim remained in intensive care at last report. We also expect to have details tomorrow on a community-support run being planned by Athena and Julie, who found the victim (they talked with our friends at KING 5 today – here’s the story).
Family was a theme evoked more than once during the Forest Lawn (WSB sponsor) ceremony in honor of today’s by-mayoral-proclamation Seattle Police Memorial Day. Above, our video of the 35-minute ceremony in its entirety; Interim Police Chief Jim Pugel spoke of both the department “family” and the families who say goodbye to their loved ones each morning as they head off for another day of their perilous profession each morning. The appreciation was echoed by Cheryl Terry, widow of Officer Antonio Terry, killed in the line of duty almost exactly 19 years ago. Toward ceremony’s end, she helped release of white doves:
Others on hand, along with dozens representing SPD, included King County Sheriff John Urquhart, below left with Chief Pugel:
The last line-of-duty death for SPD remains Officer Timothy Brenton, the West Seattle High School graduate killed in October 2009. Meantime, Forest Lawn management says they are continuing to work on the long-standing plan to create a permanent Seattle Police Memorial there.
(WSB photo, May 2012)
A week that began with one memorial ceremony at West Seattle’s Forest Lawn Cemetery will conclude with another: Tomorrow at 1 pm, you are invited to attend the annual Seattle Police tribute to the 58 members of the force who have lost their lives in the line of duty, all of whom are listed on the SPD website. The department’s Honor Guard (above) and the Seattle Police Pipes and Drums are scheduled to be part of tomorrow’s ceremony. (Forest Lawn is at 6701 30th SW.)
Topping today’s West Seattle Crime Watch roundup – an update on Tuesday morning’s 35th/Thistle arrest. As we noted at the time, police were still sorting it all out, and here’s what SPD media-relations Officer Renée Witt says it came down to: The man who was arrested was also the one who claimed he’d been robbed at Westwood Village – but police have determined there was NO robbery; he made up the story and was having some kind of “mental breakdown.” They confirmed (as a commenter also reports here) he was indeed trying to get into houses along 35th SW. Eventually, he was arrested on a “weapons violation,” Officer Witt says; items police found on him included knives and brass knuckles.
Ahead: a crime report that also includes some good news about West Seattleites’ kindness, plus stolen items to watch for – including a motorcycle, a car, and keepsakes:
(Photo by WSB co-publisher Patrick Sand)
Police are still sorting out the chain of events that led to that sizable response that in the area of 35th and Thistle a short time ago, with one person taken into custody. Here’s what we know so far, with the help of Seattle Police media-relations Officer Renée Witt: This apparently originated with a report of someone being robbed at Westwood Village. A possible suspect was then spotted running northbound on 35th SW and trying to get into houses – reportedly even walking into one at one point. Other reports included one seeing what was believed to be the same suspect, jumping a fence. He was reported to be armed with a knife or garden shears. Eventually, police detained and were questioning a man along SW Thistle just west of 35th; they also were circling back along 35th to make sure everybody else who had called in was OK. We expect more information later once they’ve sorted it all out, including what if any of thisthe person they detained might have been involved with.
| 20 COMMENTS