You can still cast your vote for Hillary

[beachdrivegirl]

“the operative word being male …

because being male gives you one more advantage even when it comes to discrimination. ”

This is sexism at its finest. Sexism goes both ways and within the past ten years many are seeing more and more examples of reverse discrimination in regards to sexism and males.

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[Anonymous]

I just can’t help myself from pointing out that EVERY time you refer to McCain, Kayleigh, you use the words “old” and “white” before his name.

I know that this will be construed to be “different”, but why would someone using the word, “black” when speaking about Obama bother you so much? Especially when you constantly point out that McCain is white?

I realize that you probably won’t want to discuss this, but I just had to point that out.

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[Anonymous]

Nice point, BDG.

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[Kayleigh]

NewRes, please take your manipulative nonsense elsewhere.

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[Zenguy]

From my prespective, I am just not even sure what the big deal is…a woman…a black…are they qualified to be president? I know I look at things too simply and living in Seattle we are pretty removed from middle America, but I long for the day we do not describe people running for president or accused of a crime (same thing I guess) based on their color or sex or sexuality.

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[beachdrivegirl]

Zenguy thank you for your very *sane* posts!

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[JoB]

Ken,

You asked for how i would approach those who don’t currently support Obama… so these are my somewhat random impressions…

I think there are two things that female Clinton supporters are looking for from Obama that they don’t get.

The first is a commitment towards women’s rights. Noone expects him to come out and endorse ERA.. but strong statements about the need for equality between the sexes would help a lot.. as would real condemnation of the kind of sexism that was practiced in the primary towards Hillary…

so condemn it yourself.

The second is a commitment towards a practical approach to the social problems that are reaching crisis state in our country. Real relief for homeowners caught in the mortgage crisis… not just propping up the banks that perpetrated the fraud and passing more laws against fraud. real commitment to alternative fuels and energy technologies. An economic plan that will actually benefit low income families. etc…

so you need to tell them how important it is to get him elected so we can start working towards creating and funding programs that benefit families… of all kinds.

The reason that Hillary resonated so well was that she understood that those who don’t have now… need to believe at least that it is possible for their children to have later… scholarships… more equitable education …nutrition… etc…

tell them why electing Obama will help the person they do trust with their welfare.. Hillary.. to create more opportunity for them. they don’t trust Obama … and his recent two moves.. his plans for the office of faith initiative and his support of no child left behind tell them they can’t trust him with their wellbeing.

So use their trust in her.

I think the reason she resonated with older voters was that she didn’t promise more than they thought she could deliver… so tell them what Obama can deliver and why that is important to them.

tell them that his security advisers are basically the same that were used by the Clinton White House. tell them about his advisers and their long history of service and accomplishment.

Stressing change to older voters won’t work. they have heard the promises before and know them as nothing more than campaign promises. What they want to know is what they can count on after he is elected…

that’s the strategy i intend to take…

i hope that was of some use to you.

…..

as for the word empower. i don’t like it much more than you do.. especially when it is co-opted by those who could care less about placing any kind of opportunity in the hands of those who don’t already have it… but i like the words that replace it even less.

my personal definition of the word empower is.. to make it possible for…

i suppose that would be a blend of Webster’s “to promote the self actualization or influence of”, “enable” and “to give official authority or legal power to”.

Laws protecting citizens give them the legal power to fight abuse and the self actualization and influence to create better protection laws.. enabling them to achieve realistic ambitions…

whew.. being accurate is hard work.

i think i am going to give my brain another rest…

and if you are squirreling away JoB isms… i can’t wait to see what they are ;-0

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[Anonymous]

Zenguy – I too like what you said and very strongly feel the same way.

Who is the most QUALIFIED? That is the better and (most important) question.

Accused of a crime and being President? Yeah, it’s pretty much the same thing, I’d say. Lol!

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[JoB]

Kayleigh…

the sad truth is that a white woman is necessarily not a rung higher on the social status..

a white well educated rich woman may be… but many of the women who supported Clinton are nowhere near the kind of social protection money and education confers.

by you own admission you are choosing to label them racist… in spite of the opportunity to make other choices.

I have to ask you.. why is it so much easier to believe in racism than in sexual inequality?

As for your other statement …

“Not all Americans (and not even all Democrats) think a woman in the White House trumps everything else.”

i didn’t say it did.

What i said was that her record on legislation which benefits women and children is better than his and that being female and having lived through some pretty blatant sexism gave her a feminist perspective that no man.. no matter how enlightened.. (ok.. with the possible exception of soclwrkinmotn… ) could possibly comprehend.

Why is that so difficult for you to hear?

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[JoB]

RS..

McCain will lose any possible latin edge when Richardson joins his team… most likely as his VP.

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[JoB]

beachdrivegirl..

what a rationalization.

pointing out sexism is in itself sexism?

so pointing out any ism is in itself ism?

i bet that works for you…

until you run up against the very real practice of sexism and suddenly find your theory lacking in substance.

And you will run up against it.. all women do eventually. Rationalizations might make you feel better about reality.. but they won’t really change it much.

kind of like letting how your dog off leash will work for you until you are either cited for the practice or an unfamiliar dog or kid enters the fenced area and creates problems. The risk is always there regardless of how you rationalize it.

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[beachdrivegirl]

I guess I have to ask, JoB, and yes I am *thread jacking* but what womens rights do you so badly think need to be improved upon? I honestly, do not feel like I am having my rights violated in any way.Furthermore, I have felt bad for some of my male peers that have lost out on scholarship opportunites, college choices, and jobs becuase organizations had to follow the *equal opportunity* act and although they had slots available they had to keep them opne incase a women decided to apply for the job/scholarship/college etc becuase of quota numbers.

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[Kayleigh]

Jo, why is it so difficult for you to hear that there are some moderately racist white females in the Hillary camp? That’s what I believe, and yes I choose it.

I get that sexism exists. I don’t deny it or minimize it. But I don’t agree that it’s harder to be a white woman in America today than it is to be a black man. I think racism is a bigger problem than sexism. (I don’t buy into the reverse sexism thing either).

I’m a white woman, for heaven’s sake. You’d think I’d have some investment in thinking the other way. But I just don’t.

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[JoB]

Kayleigh..

LOL.. loved your use of words…

“manipulative nonsense”

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[Anonymous]

BDG – I have futilely tried to make the very point that you are making now.

It is a valid point and it is real.

I also would like to know when sexism comes into play in the lives of those who have experienced it.

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[JoB]

Kayleigh..

there is a big difference between women who are interviewed who happened to be racist and also happen to support Hillary and those “in Hillary’s camp”.

I could find references to several bigoted and racist women who publicly supported Hillary… but i certainly wouldn’t call them indicative of Hillary supporters even though the media did everything in their power to present them that way.

i wonder why you choose to do so…

If you take a good look at “Hillary’s camp” i suspect you are going to find a lot of women just like me who risked their lives in support of civil rights in their youth… had i been slightly older.. i would have been in the south registering voters instead of living in our “ghetto” working in community programs. That was life threatening work.

If you take a good look at Hillary you will find that her life’s work .. although it has probably never placed her in actual physical danger.. has certainly been supportive of civil rights.

you shouldn’t be so quick to judge because when you look beneath the surface, things are often not as they appear.

As for privilege.. i think you will find that money and education trump everything…

i don’t know whether there is more discrimination against a white woman or a black man of the same class and social status.. but i am betting on the man these days.. certainly in the upper social strata… and sadly.. against the black woman… who gets the double whammy every time.

Regardless.. is sexism ok because racism is perceived to be more prevalent? probably not.

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[JoB]

beachdrivegirl…

the fact that the equal opportunity act exists is a clue as to why it was necessary.

although i too feel for individuals who are affected by it.. the number of lost opportunities for white males due to that act is eclipsed by the pattern of privilege with which they have lived their lives…

just in case you don’t understand what i mean..

i mean they have had many more opportunities their entire lives than any minority of equal financial and social class around them… and that it speaks volumes that the only barrier they encounter to their life of privilege is that legally mandated by law.

NewResident…

there is not enough time or bandwidth available to explain to you how females are discriminated against in this country..

besides.. there are many who have done a much better job documenting and explaining this than i could.

the words “sexual discrimination” in your search engine ought to provide you with enough reading to keep you occupied for years. If you run out of interesting posts.. try “feminism”.. at least that search ought to get you a few you can agree with.

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[Kayleigh]

Yup, I think wealth trumps everything.

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[beachdrivegirl]

Sexism/racism/any ism is not okay. However, you can not pick and chose when you want to aknowlegde them. Sexism and racism were an issue during this past election. And to those Clinton supporters that are not racist, sexist, or Republican and still will not vote for Obama they are selfish. Obama is activly trying to reform No CHild LEft Behind, he is for a very realistic and attainable healthcare plan, and has never been against women from what I can tell. And if her supporters chose not to aknowledge him then so be it. I just cant believe we are still on this topic. it has been over a month and everyone should move on.

And on a side note…

I have been trying to do a bit of research in regards to sexism/racism etc. Its a bit tough to find statisitical data rather than just opinion pieces but I foudn a couple of itnersting facts. First one being that over the past thirty years the income gap has improved between men and women. (Disappointing that women only make .76 to every $1 a man makes but it is closign in.) But a shocking figure i found in this same piece (which was from the US Census)was that while White mens income have increased over a ten year period Black mens income actuallly have decreased over that same period. Sure is sickening and makes me further the belief that, like you Kayleigh, athough both do exist racism is a much bigger issue.

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[JoB]

kayleigh..

wealth and the education and the connections it provides..

yup.

i don’t know whether to be glad i wasn’t born with the silver spoon in my mouth and thus became who i am or to wish i had the privilege to make my path easier.

it doesn’t matter now.. but it might help to know what to ask for next time.. if there is a next time;)

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[WSB]

Dear all:

Obviously this is yet another sensitive topic on which disagreement is running rampant.

What I will not stand for is people trying to tell someone to leave the site, leave the board, leave the discussion, “take it elsewhere.” I am empowered to do that and I will do that for rule violations. Otherwise, if someone is not breaking the rules, they are welcome here. If you don’t wish to engage with them, don’t respond to them. Or go ahead and critique/dissect their ideas, but do NOT tell them to leave. That’s my job, if merited/warranted, and as always, I appreciate notes at editor@westseattleblog.com if you think it is merited/warranted. Thanks. — TR

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[Zenguy]

Racism and sexism are alive and well, even in Seattle. As an example let’s look at my workplace WaMu. CEO, old white guy, the five managers under him, old white guys too, it is not until you get to the layer under them that you see ONE woman and ONE person of color out of eight people. I would guess the situation is worse in other places too.

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[Kayleigh]

TR, how does “elsewhere” get translated into “leave the board.”?

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[Anonymous]

Well, JoB, BDG was the one that actually asked you that question; where do you face sexism today? I seconded the request.

Bdg found and shared some of the information she found and I appreciate her doing so. It was interesting.

I don’t accept the argument that because of past injustices (which took place before many adults today were born) fewer opportunities are given to white males.

I realize that the equal opportunity act has it’s purpose and should be in place (because, unfortunately people do have racist and sexist biases. The act protects us all from discrimination), but I also believe that, in every regard, it should only come down to the best qualified. That is true equality.

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[Ken]

From today

The Obama campaign released the following statement today:

---

Senator Obama understands that the challenges facing women and families in the 21st century are very different than the challenges of the past, but John McCain seems stuck in an outdated view of American families. Senator Obama believes every woman deserves equal pay for equal work. He has a plan to help working women by guaranteeing seven paid sick days to the 22 million who currently have none, and by providing child tax credits, additional after-school programs, and a tax cut for 71 million working women and eliminating capital gains taxes for 8.7 million women who own small businesses or startups.

---

Meanwhile, McCain is still trying to remember if he supports Viagra or birth control pills.

It may not be the same as endorsing the ERA but the current replacement (after all the original was written in 1923) is S. J. Res. 10: A joint resolution proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relative to equal rights for men and women. Both Obama and Clinton are cosponsors. Also note H. J. Res. 40 in the house is identical.

Sure they are neither one going to get out of committee in an election year, but you can bet Obama and all the real Democrats will be after it in the 111th congress if we give them a majority.

Note: I have held signs and worn buttons (and a patch on my leathers which confused the hell out the rednecks in NC) in the 70’s and early 80’s demonstrating to try and get NC to ratify the ERA. Jesse Helms and Sam Ervin and the backward god fearing people of NC were not ready then and might not be now. At least Jesse is dead but there are millions like him.

I would like to see a link to the allegation that the civil rights movement pre empted the Women’s rights movement in some way. I seem to have missed that. I do not doubt that the core of the civil rights movement, the black churches and their ministers did not support the ERA since the patriarchy (or the illusion of one) is of grave importance to southern christians of black or white fundamentalist sects. And black women who openly supported the ERA (Shirley Chisholm?) were few and far between if I remember correctly. But any official collusion or agreement would be news to me.

The most memorable source of unbiased history that I have run across lately is here:

http://www.jofreeman.com/feminism/socrevera.htm

SOCIAL REVOLUTION AND THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT

by Jo Freeman

circa 1988

The civil right act (via the supreme court)killed several of the protective labor laws included in the original ERA but I don’t see any reference to the civil rights leaders making any deals or promises. The right wingers even imposed fears of federal abortion funding as a wedge to split the Pro era forces.

Getting past the race tinged resentmet (vague, misguided or misinformed though it might be) seems to be the core issue and I am not confident that it can be done. But we have no choice but to try.

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