What is a Feminist?…really

[WorldCitizen]

And sometimes a joke is just a joke…

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[kootchman]

So says Lenny Bruce. Didja hear about the priest, the rabbi and the preacher….???? An “ist” is someone who can’t take a joke or can’t see other elements of irony, sarcasm, stereotype, etc etc etc, beyond a “tightness” about politically correct speech. The only speech you have any authority over is your own. How did Staten Island get its’ name…? Dutch sailor crawls up the mast and looks out over NY Harbor ” ist” dat an island?”

herrongrrrl I am sorry… I don’t buy into collective guilt, or original sin.. I don’t do penance for the sins of others.. or purchase indulgences. I check my intent. I don’t do perpetual sack cloth and ashes.

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[herongrrrl]

Well, fortunately I was able to stop flogging myself with nettles long enough to recall my own favorite feminist joke.

Q: How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: One, and that’s not funny!

Back to the nettles I go… ;)

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[JoB]

fellas

it’s not a joke when the rest of us aren’t laughing.

you can trivialize this issue all you want to

after all you don’t have to live it

but it won’t make it go away for your mother or wife or sister or daughter or ….

kootch..

if equality for women was guaranteed by the constitution, you wouldn’t be able to promote laws that say any other person has the right to decide whether or not to give legal medical care to a person.. simply because they are female.

all of those religious rights issues you are promoting right now discriminate against solely against women.

by the time you figure out they can also be used against you it will be too late.

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[JoB]

DBP..

i wasn’t going to say this..

but it’s been one of those days for me..

i am sorry your eyes glaze over when your feminist friend tries to talk to you about feminism..

but it really isn’t her fault that you would much rather become defensive about any perceived blame than listen and understand the issues.

When she is talking to you about feminism .. it isn’t all about you.. it is about issues that impact her every hour of every day of her life.

it really isn’t our job to make it ok for men that we face discrimination on a daily basis that they prefer not to take seriously.

Discrimination against women is so accepted in our society that it isn’t even noticed..

You made an inappropriate sexual innuendo that trivialized women’s real concerns about equality… and when we objected.. somehow it was our fault for objecting.

that’s pretty discriminatory..

but the blatant stuff like that isn’t the worst.

the worst is when a woman calls a meeting about her project and the men in the room proceed to talk it over among themselves… completely ignoring the women who will assume the responsibility for the actual tasks.

the worst is when a man walks up behind a woman in line and orders right over her head.. and the person at the counter allows them to cut in line and fills their order first…

the worst is when the men in your life assume that it is your job to make their lives work for them.. even if you work as long as they do.. or make more money than they do.

the worst is being taken for granted and then made a joke of if you object.

if you think this is personal

you’re right

when a woman talks to you about feminism

it isn’t about you

it’s about her

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[ws4ever]

Nice job, women. DBP’s “talk to the hand” dismissive comments about others, teach others to dismiss him. Wanting attention is different than having something worthwhile to share. Guys tease each other unmercifully, but usually there’s an underlying understanding that they’re guys together, that guys do that. The same tone doesn’t work well when there is no solidarity intended in the communication and the intent is to injure.

Miws, your fairness and consideration for others is appreciated. We need more people like you in this world.

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[datamuse]

DBP:

If someone wants tell me how they are personally working to end gender inequality, I’m all ears. Are you mentoring girls in business or science, for example, or working to end violence against women somewhere?

Yes.

Are you?

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[kootchman]

Job.. it doesn’t fly. Don’t fray the edges of the talking points booklet. Legal does not mean it is a right. It’s legal to drive..now I gotta provide you a car? If my conscience says I should not provide it… and it is a tenet of my faith.. that is a First Amendment right.

“if equality for women was guaranteed by the constitution, you wouldn’t be able to promote laws that say any other person has the right to decide whether or not to give legal medical care to a person.. simply because they are female”

A good enough reason to trash Obamacare. No one is denying you access. If you can’t respect my minority rights as granted by the First Amendment… I certainly won’t trust “you” with even more power. That’s like putting a wife beater on a steroids regimen. The last crusade tampering with the constitution as legislation to expand a “PC” of many over some was the WCTU and the Volstead Act. That went well. Stay out of the church and faith groups .. it ain’t your business or place to mandate the practice of faith. I will support them staying out of your uterus.

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[JanS]

Sometimes we need to clarify things… you said “JoB.. it doesn’t fly.” Perhaps you meant…”JoB…in my opinion, it doesn’t fly” ?

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[JanS]

I’ll stay out of the church and faith groups as long as they stay out of my life…fair enough? When they start dictating to me, then they’ve crossed the line…don’t you think?

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[kootchman]

Perfect. That’s all that was asked….unless you actively seek them out… you can live in complete isolation from them. .Don’t work for them, don’t go their shelters, attend their masses, read the Torah or be baptized in the Sound… you are free to associate as you see fit. Perfect. They aren’t dictating a damn thing to you… No I didn’t Ms Editor…. I meant it doesn’t fly… it’s a buzzard with a broken wing and millions of us are saying it not going to fly and we are not going to accept it. If I meant in my opinion… I would have said so. I meant it’s dead, a stinking corpse, I will not allow the tryanny of the majority to try and subject the minority… First Amendment.

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[redblack]

WC:

Also, the numbers will probably have to be looked at closely to take into account major industries like Construction, which will probably have few women running things in the foreseeable future. These major industries will likely have some sort of queueing on the numbers as a whole (how much I can’t say).

oh, we don’t discriminate.

we treat everyone who steps onto the job site in a suit and shiny new hard hat equally badly, regardless of gender.

sexual harassment? that’s another story.

okay, that was an attempt at humor, so please put down the rotten tomatoes.

regarding construction labor, there’s kind of a military thing with construction workers: you know the argument that most women are of smaller stature and don’t have the sheer physical strength or weight required for some tasks?

we see more women electricians and plumbers, but not in sufficient quantity to reflect the populace.

“and how do the men react?”

that’s the question, right?

it’s like i said before. the stupid guys act and speak like idiots when a woman walks on the job site. and, unfortunately, even union construction jobs don’t attract the best and brightest.

i have seen exactly two women who do my job in the last 17 years. as the lead hod carrier, i expected no less from them than i did from anyone else on the crew. as union members, our pay and benefits are all the same, so all of us should be relatively equal in work ability, regardless of gender. (there are exceptions, such as lower-wage apprenticeships and bonus pay for foremen.) one of the women was average, maybe a little better than most of the guys.

the other one – let’s just say that more often than not you could find her leaning on a shovel talking with bricklayers, who were more than happy to reciprocate. some of them would gently coax her to bring them mortar or bricks, but they didn’t talk to her nearly as roughly as they would if a man had been standing around bullshitting instead of working. and she didn’t get laid off nearly as quickly as a lazy man would have.

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[redblack]

kootch: i guess you won’t be voting for rob mckenna(R) for governor. as the current AG, he has said that the church must pay for its secular employees’ contraception, when covered by church-provided health insurance plans.

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[JoB]

kootchman..

“unless you actively seek them out… you can live in complete isolation from them. .Don’t work for them, don’t go their shelters, attend their masses, read the Torah or be baptized in the Sound… you are free to associate as you see fit. Perfect. They aren’t dictating a damn thing to you…”

even you have to think this statement is just a bit disingenuous when state after state is passing laws that put the state into the examining room between a woman and her doctor.

who exactly do you think “they” are dictating to… if it isn’t women?

and yes.. “they” are denying women access to healthcare.. economic access.

When the state of Arizona denied a man who had been accepted on the kidney transplant list.. they didn’t just choose not to pay the bill… they denied him access to healthcare… causing his death as surely as if they had executed him.

Do you really think it is any different when a church places an undue economic burden on it’s employees simply because they don’t approve of the medication?

And.. i have to ask? What does that say about “the church’s” morality?

Is it really ok, is it really moral to treat any group of people as less deserving of life and liberty simply because you believe they are less deserving because they violate what you consider a “tenet” of your faith?

Some of “the church’s” darkest moments have occurred when some zealot has led them down the path of that assumption.

If we are going to talk about morality and about judgement.. then let’s talk openly and fairly.

a spade is still a spade

even when yielded by a cleric.

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[kootchman]

Some of country’s darkest moment were when the majority or strident interest group with political power tried to exert control over the lives, morality, speech, of others. You do know that in most socialized medicine countries transplants are routinely denied .. some simply for age. Don’t work for the employee who doesn’t put the package together. you don’t like BTY… if it is that is such hard a burden… Title X covers it. It isn’t covered now.. and every supporter here has stated over and over again… it has not been an obstacle up to now. Remember when you all said 90 per cent of all woman use BC including women of faith? There are faith groups who do support BC and do provide it , that are in solidarity with the postion of the church. There, that ends the state violating the First Amendment. McKenna may try it… but if the Supreme Court strikes it down as a violation of the First Amendment…. the state statute falls too. It’s like Romney as governor in a state that was 80 per cent democrate.. ya pick the fights ya can win. McKenna would get no traction in OK, GA, or over half the states in the union. If he can undo the Gregoire deficits and restore sanity to public sector employee compensation … that’s job one.

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[kootchman]

well JoB … the state is now IN the examining room. That is the essence of Obamacare. Maybe there will be some cool videos and pictures on UTube and Facebook from bored DHHS employees.

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[JanS]

wow…almost like saying that Ms. Fluke should show her sex tapes on youtube…

now..how’s this. Stop calling them birth control pills, and start calling them hormone treatments, becuase that’s essentially what they are, and they are used for more than just birth control. They are used for dysmennorhea, to fight endometriosis, to fight polycystic disease..so..what do you tell those women? Suck it up, go elsewhere? just find another job? like that’s an easy thing to do?

cool pictures and videos? are you effing serious? why would that even be part of this conversation? good grief! what an asinine statement !

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[happywalker]

maybe off topic but I just got new bumper sticker “Against abortion? Then don”t have one”

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[DBP]

happy w:

How would the “just don’t have one” argument be different from a bumper stick saying “Against heroin? Then don’t use it.”

Or “Against slavery? Don’t own a slave.”

—These arguments all beg the question. (In rhetoric, begging the question means assuming as proven that which was to be decided by argument.) In this case, “the question” is whether abortion harms a human being.

Let me elaborate. The central problem in the abortion debate is this:

Abortion proponents assume that a fetus is not a person in any sense of the word, and is therefore not entitled to any form of legal protection.

Abortion opponents, conversely, assume that a fetus (even a zygote) is a whole person, and is therefore entitled to all the rights of a whole person.

There can be an additional logical/legal problem related to the claim that a fetus is not a whole person. If a pregnant woman makes an appointment at an abortion clinic then, for legal purposes, at the moment the fetus is extracted, its personhood is retroactively negated.

But . . . if a negligent driver should happen to run the woman down when she’s crossing the street to get to the clinic, and the fetus dies then, paradoxically, the driver can be charged with manslaughter.

Because at the point of impact, the fetus still WAS a person somehow.

We begin to see how complex the abortion issue really is . . . Bumper stickers do not do it justice.

***********************************************************************************

Disclosure: I’m for abortion rights, but I don’t feel great about it.

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[happywalker]

Not so sure I would have had one myself back in the day…but I would want to decide for myself. Heroin and slavery are against the law. Abortion is not. The choice should be yours.

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[DBP]

Now here’s a kind of a paradox on the other side. It relates to rape.

Let’s just suppose the abortion oppoents are right. Let’s suppose that a fetus is a person, and that therefore, abortion is harming a person.

Presumably, the moral prohibition against a woman getting an abortion derives from her free-will decision to get pregnant in the first place. (In both legal and religious tradition, where there is no free will, there is no culpability.)

But anti-abortion purists don’t draw any distinction between rape and free-will conception. To them, it’s all the same.

Which means that, if you’re a woman of child-bearing age, a man — the worst kind of man in fact — can violate your body and your free will and then impose a nine-month obligation upon you, in a single criminal act.

Everything “just” in us should cry out against that.

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[kootchman]

Ok with me Jan… if they come back from an appt with their doctor and it is so diagnosed… the insurance should cover it. But is it ok with the church…. ? And I don’t and you don’t get to weigh in on the faith and beliefs of others. First Amendment

” They are used for dysmennorhea, to fight endometriosis, to fight polycystic disease.”

But that isn’t the argument is it?

Criminal law does in fact recognize the fetus as a whole person. Canon law, says the moment of conception, It is a valid as any state law… Every state in the union recognizes taking the life of an unborn child is indeed murder. An irrate husband or boyfriend that kills an unborn child is going to prison forever or close to it.

So hear we go… the state going down the road it goes… if it is voluntary it is life… if it is involuntary it isn’t. If it is Jewish or black it’s not a life. Been there often over our history.

But here’s an interesting idea presented to me by a fellow conservative. It is clearly against the law to use federal funds for abortion. No equivocation there. Since Title X is the justification for funding Planned Parenthood… (if covered by private insurance, woman can’t be covered by Title X ) federal funding of PP goes away except for only the unemployed..! Eliminating PP’s largest revenue stream. It may be the consolation prize.

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[JanS]

yes, it IS partially the argument…sorry. They are not covering a medication (by whatever term you want to use), that is actually used in many instances to treat conditions that have nothing to do with getting pregnant. That’s what Ms. Fluke was using it for,and wanted to testify about to Darryl Issa and his old cronies and look what happened to her…name calling, etc.

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[JanS]

and that since conception thing…can I get life insurance?

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[kootchman]

Ms .Fluke is attending a law school, whose graduates AVERAGE 160K a year starting salary. She tried to “crash” a party that wasn’t about birth control. It was about the First Amendment. The balance between the rights of Freedom of Religion and the onslaught of this administration. Ms. Fluke is attending a college with an annual cost of over 60K. She is an elitist of the elites. She can’t come up with $12.00 per month for BC pills? If Daryl Issa was holding a BC meeting, maybe, she would have been an appropriate witness, But he wasn’t and she wasn’t. Congress invites witnesses to testify to contribute to the discussion. Issa chairs the Government Oversight and Government Reform committee…the purpose of the hearing was as titled ” Has the Obama Administration Trampled on Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Conscience?” She is an activist of considerable political savvy… she was there as a willing stooge of the left. So poor… I mean when I was in grad school. It was a organized set up. This is not a Raman noodle every night grad student….. in jeans and sweats. She is a well compensated political tool/activist, certainly nit an expert on conflicts between church and state. It was a political wack job. She was custom made for folks just like ….you. I read the transcripts between Maher and Limbaugh….. Maher as far worse… including mocking her child with Down’s syndrome…. but never a word from the lame street media. Not a word. Ms. Fluke was not invited because the hearing was not about medical issues..hers or others. My student health insurance didn’t cover birth control… .50 cents and Trojan did. I figured, my conduct, my responsibility. And “poor” students have BC covered by Title X…. and have for years. Let her “friend” testify…at a Health Committee session. What a bunch of hooey.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/is-this-why-sandra-fluke-testified/

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