Under the Bus You Go —

[charlabob]

A while back I posted of my admiration for Barack Obama’s courage, as exemplified by his speech on race and his refusal to buckle under pressure–his ability to say hard things in a way that people might even understand.

Today he has completely undermined my faith. Wright is obviously smarter, wiser, and more articulate — I can’t wait to hear Wright’s rebuttal.

Let the dozens begin. Unfortunately this means that, no matter who wins, we’ll get someone worse than Obama could have been.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/29/obama.wright/index.html

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[walfredo]

Here is a good take on Obama’s speech today. I have a lot of trouble with any rationale where Rev. Wright is the victim. This from Andrew Sullivan today:

That was a very impressive, clear and constructive re-framing of the core message of his candidacy; and a moment given to him by Wright. No one will ever be able to say that Obama threw his father-figure and pastor under the bus. We all know that the reverse happened. We also know that this clear repudiation of Wright’s toxic, indeed “ridiculous” views on AIDS, 9/11 and permanent immiseration of people of color could not have happened unless Wright had made it necessary. Skeptics may wonder whether Wright actually deliberately did Obama a favor. I doubt it. But a favor it unintentionally is.

Maybe God does bring good out of bad. Maybe these racial and cultural divides can help us understand how better to move beyond them. Cynics may scoff – and certainly will. They will parse every nuance and try to paint Obama as another cynical, positioning pol. I don’t believe it. He has more sincerity and integrity than the vast majority of politicians, more honesty, and more resilience in a very tough spot.

And today, we found that he can fight back, and take a stand, without calculation and in what is clearly a great amount of personal difficulty and political pain. It’s what anyone should want in a president. It makes me want to see him succeed more than ever. It’s why this country needs to see him succeed more than ever.

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[charlabob]

Since I still want him to get the nomination and be elected, I hope Andrew Sullivan (a gay Repug, as I recall?) is correct. Which is to say, I hope this is the spin the voters buy.

I could see it coming this morning when the “liberal/progressive” talkers were furious at Wright for what he said. The bob and I looked at each other and said, “huh????”

I think I’m not a cynic — I think I’m an idealist, who expected more.

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[Kayleigh]

I think the Rev. Wright has some valid points (not about AIDS or 9/11 though), but Obama can’t afford to identify himself with some of Wright’s… well, stuff. He just can’t. The presidency is on the line.

Obama put up with a lot from all sides, including Hillary’s campaign, before he finally got angry, and I don’t blame him for finally trying to squash this once and for all.

Reminds me of Bill Clinton’s “bimbo eruptions”. Keep on whackin’ those moles as they pop up…

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[JoB]

i watched the Bill moyers interview with Reverend Wright in it’s entirety when it was aired… it was a good interview.

i didn’t hear or read the National Press Club speech…

though knowing what i know about Reverend Wright and his take on the differences between the black communities perspective on religion and the perspective of the mostly more affluent white community… and his long standing involvement in the struggle for equal rights for blacks… and the true community activism he spearheaded through his church… i don’t think i would be surprised by anything he had to say…

and from his perspective.. i might even agree with a good deal of it..

as for Andrew Sullivan’s re-framing…

“That was a very impressive, clear and constructive re-framing of the core message of his candidacy; and a moment given to him by Wright. No one will ever be able to say that Obama threw his father-figure and pastor under the bus.”

Well that is one way of putting it:)

So.. Walfredo… are you saying that Senator Obama sat in this man’s church for 20 years and never heard his sermons? Because it wasn’t just one, you know… the context those sound bites came out of reflect the reality of Reverend Wright’s world view… from his perspective an extremely patriotic world view…

Imagine Reverend Wright thinking that America was ready to hear the worldview of his black american church… a very political church… a church that prided itself in making a difference in it’s community.

If Reverend Wright’s message was so opposed to his own.. what was Senator Obama doing in that church?

what did he think the good Reverend was going to do when he was portrayed as an unpatriotic bigot? Sit back and listen to those sound bites for the next 6 months or so… Did Senator Obama really think that Revened Wright should stand by while his reputation… the reputation of a man who spent his life in entire life working for his black constituency in his church .. the man who helped further a young Barak Obama’s political career… was irrevocably ruined?

He did what Senator Obama would not do for him.. he tried to explain his views and clear his name… He tried to actually put an end to being slandered nightly on national news…

and look what that got him…

repudiation from Senator Obama… Reverend Wright called him a politician. Oh my. Those are fighting words ;->

“He has more sincerity and integrity than the vast majority of politicians, more honesty, and more resilience in a very tough spot.”

really?

i noticed that he was not willing to give up the political advantage of his membership in the church that Reverend Wright built… He thinks he can have it both ways

I don’t think throwing his minister under the bus and repudiating him is is going to play well with his black constituency… or faith based middle america who might have actually understood Reverend Wright better after his interview… or with the part of middle america that Senator Obama categorized as falling back on their religion and their guns… or even the more intellectual portion of his liberal backing…

i think he just committed a large enough foot in mouth gaffe that even his supporters might take a second look.

it really is too bad that he is primarily just a politician after all…

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[JoB]

kayleigh..

Bill Clinton’s bimbo eruptions were based on bimbos… in other words.. on some degree of reality.

so are Senator Obama’s…

not quite the cloth everyone thought he was cut out of…

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[walfredo]

That’s right, gay-repub… But a big-time Obama supporter and a strong and fierce critic of the Bush administration (so at this point he’s as much rep, and Hillary is a Dem). He was one of the most logical supporters of Obama after the first Wright clips came out. I’ll post his take yesterday, after the press conference of Wright, it would be understating that it is a complete 180 from how he responded to Wrights original clips. I happen to agree with that sentiment, when it was out of context and unprovoked, and unfair- well Wright was the victim. Yesterday, he was anything but a victim and Obama’s response today was not just appropriate, but quite frankly necessary:

I guess I am late to the party, am I not? I didn’t watch Jeremiah Wright’s National Press Club performance live this morning, as every other blogger seemed to. Wright is not on the ticket of any major party, he is not Barack Obama, and I’m not going to be baited into making this campaign about him, or the boomer cultural racial obsessions that so many want this vital election to be about.

But then I actually read what he said.

I knew he was an exhibitionist; many of his sermons at Trinity, read in their entirety, do fall within the tradition of some prophetic teaching; I can forgive occasional outbursts from fiery preachers; he has done much good in his own neighborhood and his interview with Bill Moyers struck me as defensible; parts of his address at the Press Club were completely uncontroversial and even contained some important truths.

But what he said today extemporaneously, the way in which he said it, the unrepentant manner in which he reiterated some of his most absurd and offensive views, his attempt to equate everything he believes with the black church as a whole, and his open public embrace of Farrakhan and hostility to the existence of Israel Zionism, make any further defense of him impossible. This was a calculated, ugly, repulsive, vile display of arrogance, egotism, and self-regard:

His claim that the September 11 attacks mean “America’s chickens are coming home to roost”?

Wright defended it: “Jesus said, ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.’ You cannot do terrorism on other people and expect it never to come back on you. Those are biblical principles, not Jeremiah Wright bombastic divisive principles.”

His views on Farrakhan and Israel? “Louis said 20 years ago that Zionism, not Judaism, was a gutter religion. He was talking about the same thing United Nations resolutions say, the same thing now that President Carter’s being vilified for and Bishop Tutu’s being vilified for. And everybody wants to paint me as if I’m anti-Semitic because of what Louis Farrakhan said 20 years ago. He is one of the most important voices in the 20th and 21st century; that’s what I think about him. . . . Louis Farrakhan is not my enemy. He did not put me in chains, he did not put me in slavery, and he didn’t make me this color.”

He denounced those who “can worship God on Sunday morning, wearing a black clergy robe, and kill others on Sunday evening, wearing a white Klan robe.” He praised the communist Sandinista regime of Nicaragua. He renewed his belief that the government created AIDS as a means of genocide against people of color (“I believe our government is capable of doing anything”).

This is an outright attack on the stated beliefs and policies and values of Barack Obama in a secular setting.

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[JoB]

so Walfredo…

he sat in that church for 20 years.

the man was his spiritual counselor.. leading him to his faith.

the man married him and baptized him…

and Obama was totally unaware of his views?

“But what he said today extemporaneously, the way in which he said it, the unrepentant manner in which he reiterated some of his most absurd and offensive views, his attempt to equate everything he believes with the black church as a whole, and his open public embrace of Farrakhan and hostility to the existence of Israel Zionism, make any further defense of him impossible. This was a calculated, ugly, repulsive, vile display of arrogance, egotism, and self-regard:”

where is that ocean front property in Arizona? Maybe it’s time to invest:)

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[walfredo]

JoB- Here is where we disagree… I don’t think the majority of Americans agree with there pastor’s politics. I would guess, at there core close to 50% of catholics don’t disagree with abortion in all cases. Don’t hate gays. Don’t believe in the literal interpretation of the bible.

People do not go to church on Sunday to get there political doctrine- and the ones that do are not career politicians. What you go to church for is a connection to your community, and to reflect on your spiritual side. Like him or don’t, agree or disagree, good or bad- Rev. Wright is a large part of the African American community in Chicago. He is the pastor at by far the largest African American congregation on the city. (This is why the Clinton’s consulted him, and flew him to the White House after the whole Monica thing). Barack Obama is not from Chicago, he did not grow up a part of this community. He campaigned and received a job that required him to support this constituency, and I genuinely believe he found it to be critical to his success to understand the people of this community, and not just at a surface level. To understand what they care about most deeply, and where they had come from. To see people from all sides, and all levels of the community.

Do you really think, that Barack consults Rev. Wright about political issues? That he supports a black seperatist agenda? It’s absurd…

So that is why, me personally- I don’t have any problems with his time at the church, I don’t find him the least bit hypocritical.

But there is a second part- and that is the politics of this. I supported his take on Rev. Wright when he was the victim. When he was taken out of context. When he was misunderstood. I loved the nuance that Obama conveyed to Americans! That he strongly disagreed with those messages, and often disagreed passionately with the Rev. But as a whole, he could not disown a man who has done so much good in his community, in his own life, just because he has faults and is not a perfect person… I loved that nuance- I found it an amazingly powerful to explain how you could love a man you disagree with.

But, what Rev. Wright made clear yesterday, in bright NEON letters- is that he did not, and does not have that same regard for Sen. Obama. Rev. Wright believes that he is the story, and that Obama is the sellout. That he won’t just disagree with Barack, but he will actively instigate negative attention to him, call him names etc… As a candidate for president, as the leading candidate for president- he cannot allow anyone to do that. It was very important that he express- anger, dissapointment, and probably most importantly a clear break from Rev. Wright. And to not continue to lend his stature and there relationship to any serious discussion of he’s most extreme ideas…

Let’s be honest- if Obama actually was a puppet of Rev. Wright, if he actually sat there and formed his political views- not at Harvard, not at the law review, not in the state senate, not in the senate- but at Church the last 20 years. If he really does agree with Rev. Wright’s politcal views, and is a puppet to advance those ideas… Would Rev. Wright be so upset at him? Would he really go out and call him “just a politician”. Of course not, Obama is not Wright’s candidate, and its silly to suggest.

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[Tonya42]

Obama has nobody to blame but himself. He should be honest and come clean about his relationships with the likes of Ayers, Wright etc.. if this is who Obama is then admit it and move forward.

I would respect that more than hisongoing attempt to conceal the truth at the moment.

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[beachdrivegirl]

So out of curiousity Tonya42 are you a Clinton supporter or McCain?

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[andrea]

oh good grief…

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[charlabob]

I don’t think there’s ever been any doubt that Obama is a politician. Given his speech on race, some of us believed (or hoped) that he might also be a leader and a teacher.

I would argue that the Clinton supporters are the people laboring under serious delusions of having a somehow nobler candidate. I’m not sure I want to watch when their fantasies, like those of the supporters of the previous Clinton, are toppled.

I will get beyond my disappointment in this one occurrence and continue to work hard for Obama’s nomination and election. I am amused, but not amazed, at the valiant attempt to drag the old chestnuts about Ayers and Wright and lying and deception.

Meanwhile, Clinton is backing the ridiculous gas tax “holiday” which will do nothing for the people and do everything to continue to destroy the infrastructure — Obama explained why it was a bad idea (and yet another deception, pulled on a desperate public).

(For those of you who are voice freaks, check out the fake southern accent Miz Hillary adopts whenever she crosses the border. It is stunning!)

And here’s a clue: When a candidate is the only person to oppose something (or to support it) you might want to take a closer look. That is, if you have any interest in reality.

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[JoB]

LOL..

this discussion is mostly high humor…

Walfredo. you are right. there are a lot of Americans who don’t agree with their pastor…

but they don’t stand back in amazement and say they weren’t aware their pastor holds the view that he preaches from the pulpit either… not after 20 years attending the church…

and that’s the real issue here.. isn’t it?

Senator Obama has to have known all along just what his pastor was preaching from the pulpit. for whatever reason, he continued to be a member of the church. that’s his choice to make.

I am sure there were good reasons for him to continue in the church even if he disagreed with his pastor.

As you put it yourself.. the Reverend was well connected politically…

“Wright is a large part of the African American community in Chicago. He is the pastor at by far the largest African American congregation on the city. (This is why the Clinton’s consulted him, and flew him to the White House after the whole Monica thing).”

Attending that church and working with the Reverend Wright has been very good for his political career.

What isn’t so noble was the way he tried to distance himself when the national media got wind of some fo Reverend Wright’s more colorful phrases….

Saying he disagreed would have been respectful …

painting Reverend Wright as a doddering old preacher ready to be retired and saying he wasn’t aware of some of his more controversial beliefs … the same story he tells with every questionable association… is just plain lame.

as for what it is that you think Reverend wright did.. I found out today.

He gave a talk at the national press club that was largely aimed at a gathering to start off a conference about the black church…

He said the same sort of things he has been saying from his pulpit all along.. he spoke to his audience.. and not to the press corp who also attended…

you would have had him disallow his beliefs because one of his parishioners is running for President?

Now.. he might have been just a little irritated at the way that parishioner has been talking about him… and the pressure he has received to recant his views from that parishioner’s campaign… and that may have made his tongue a little looser than normal…

but according to the theologian on NPRs talking points today who has made a study of black theology.. his remarks were pretty much in line with his beliefs and with his audience’s expectations…

He was doing his thing.. as Reverend wright.. not as part of Barak Obama’s campaign.

Contrary to popular opinion.. it’s not all about Barak:) though you would certainly think so from some of the comments today…

So will the real Barak Obama please step up… oops.. i think he just did:)

it’s time America met the politician.. because somehow they have been led to believe they aren’t really voting for one…

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[Kayleigh]

Well said, walfredo. I do understand charla’s point about being disappointed, though.

I’m not sure anybody can remain unscathed while going through the political machine in this era of swiftboating, the right wing noise machine, the Internet, etc. Maybe all we can hope for is that they maintain *some* degree of integrity and commitment to something nobler.

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[JoB]

Walfredo..

is this how you dfine this issue?

“Do you really think, that Barack consults Rev. Wright about political issues? That he supports a black seperatist agenda? It’s absurd…” ….

“Let’s be honest- if Obama actually was a puppet of Rev. Wright, if he actually sat there and formed his political views- not at Harvard, not at the law review, not in the state senate, not in the senate- but at Church the last 20 years. If he really does agree with Rev. Wright’s politcal views, and is a puppet to advance those ideas… Would Rev. Wright be so upset at him? Would he really go out and call him “just a politician”. Of course not, Obama is not Wright’s candidate, and its silly to suggest.”

I know that’s how FOX news defines the issue.. but i don’t think it’s the discussion democrats are having right now…

and i don’t think the larger discussion about “nobility” is confined to the Clinton camp… in fact.. the Clinton camp didn’t bring this one up.

It’s just possible this one is a real issue.. and as such ought to get serious discussion… not just more political rationalization.

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[charlabob]

Well, we tried to get a discussion of the gas tax farce; no takers on the Clinton side. We tried to get a discussion about the Clintonista who invited Wright to the National Press Club, screened the questions, and then removed all text about Clinton from her website, apparently when she was caught.

What exactly is the “the real issue?” Apparently it’s, “I want to be sure people don’t forget about Reverend Wright and the feud we’ve made up because that way we might get a couple more votes.”

A number of postings have failed to get to any point, so, reluctantly, I must call out my secret weapon: lines from my favorite obscure movies.

“And by the way, you know, when you’re telling these little stories? Here’s a good idea – have a POINT. It makes it SO much more interesting for the listener!”

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[JanS]

from Bob Herbert…

who asks a good question…why? and why now?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/opinion/29herbert.html?th&emc=th

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[Kayleigh]

Jan, I love Bob Herbert and he’s right, as usual.

Obama is (was?) a bright light for those of us becoming cynical and disheartened about our ability to get our country back from the neo-con nutballs. But now, who knows?

Thank you, Hillary, for your dirty campaigning, relentless ambition, and betrayal of the party.

Thank you, Rev. Wright, for your political tone deafness, selfishness, and betrayal of Sen. Obama.

Thank you, mainstream media, for covering the presidential race like the Superbowl, but with less-thoughtful analyses, and refusing to see the statesman in Obama (but carefully reporting his frigging bowling scores).

Thank you, Hillary supporters, for being so eager to think like Republicans and excusing your candidate for her sometimes apalling behavior.

When are the Democrats going to get it together before we end up with President “Angry White Guy” McCain?

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[JoB]

why is it that if a Hillary supporter points out any flaws in Mr Obama… they are thinking like Republicans?

I don’t think like a Republican at all. In fact.. i didn’t see the harm in Reverend Wright..

just in Senator Obama’s reaction to it all…

Did anyone see Jon Stewart’s take on the whole thing last night? You should have.. it carried a lot of much needed perspective…

Reverend Wright can certainly be playful and entertaining..

He was on Bill Moyers by request.. i assume. He addressed his peers at the kickoff to a black church convention (which happened to be at the Press Club)… and he spoke at the NAACP..

Now i can see why that has to be another political ploy by the Clintons.. oh my.. a Clinton at every turn doing everything they can to undermine the party they have spent their entire adult lives to build… and the core of their support in the Black community.

yeah… that makes sense.

and especially that the Clinton’s would turn reverend Wright loose on Senator Obama… manipulating the questions to make him look even more rediculous… thereby risking the wrath of Revenend Wright for manipulating the black vote should she get the election?

I don’t think so. Maybe it’s time for a little critical thought here?

Could it be simply that Senator Obam made a wrong turn when it came to Reverend Wright. Instead of simply saying he is my pastor. He is a colorful man and he speaks to his audience… and he does a great deal of good in the community… He had to add lines about not agreeing with Reverend Wright.. being totally unaware what he was saying… and about how the old guy was about to retire and that maybe the congregation just tolerated him.

He had to suck up to the Republican led press…

and look what that got him.

Reverend Wright saw the bus coming and thought he might as well drive… because that bus wasn’t just going to pick him up and point him the the back.

Even then, Senator Obama could have simply said that his pastor was making his point and that he regretted anything he might have said that was not supportive of this good man.

Nope.. he chose to repudiate him.

Becasue Reverend Wright said he was answering like a politician.

There aren’t any Clinton’s anywhere in that story…

Now.. is Hillary likely to see a benefit from this within the black community in South Carolina?

What do you think? You don’t p.. off one of the men who delivers the vote and then expect it to just be handed to you.

The black community is beginning to ask loudly… what good is a black president who doesn’t respect or actively court the black political community?

Why exactly do you think the Clintons called Reverend Wright when the whole business with Monica broke?

Reverend Wright isn’t just Senator Obama’s pastor.. he is a political power within the black community in Chicago.. and withing the black church.

Why do you think and Ivy league guy with political aspirations chose that church?

Senator Obama has brought this one on himself… and he is the one who gets to figure out how to handle it.. if he can.

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[JoB]

sorry about the lack of editing…

it wasn’t so much passion as simply brain fade…

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[JanS]

I for one this the Rev. Mr. Right is disingenuous at best. Why now? Why not when it first “erupted”? Well, he faded away, and wanted his 15 minutes of fame. I’d be pissed off , too, if it was me he was talking about. Mr Obama said what he had to say. If this was in Mrs. Clinton’s life, instead of Obama’s, I’m sure she would have done the same thing. I believe Barack Obama when he says that he doesn’t feel the same as Mr. Wright…I’d believe Hillary Clinton if she were in the same situation. Maybe I’m just not callous enough to believe that they all lie at every turn (maybe jsut every other turn). Now…it’s time to get on with more important things…because there ARE many, many more important things than Jeremiah Wright. My suggestion for him? Go find a tropical island, relax..it’s your retirement…just chill…

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[JanS]

and…look…they’re all politicians…all 3 candidates…or they wouldn’t be running…that’s not hard to figure out. And they all have bigger egos than any of us, that’s for sure…so..let’s not disparage when one of them “thinks” like a politician. Just like I can’t get all hot under the collar when Barack Obama was called “elitist”…give me a break…with all of the Clinton and McCain millions, they are ALL elitist…they can’t really relate to me, my small income, my lack or not of health insurance, whether I can or cannot pay my bills or afford gas, or the expensive cut of meat…what my life, or the life of a lot of you is about. Distractions like the Rev. Wright thing, and the fact that everyone makes it more important than what IS important to regular everyday people who are struggling to make ends meet, who want more discussions on the economy, etc. ..well, that’s the real travesty…it’s a campaign that is ringing more and more hollow to quite a few people…just my little humble opinion, of course..

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[JoB]

i agree JanS..

i have said all along that they are all politicians…

i think i have had more appreciation for Senator Obama’s skill as a politician from the beginning than most Obama supporters…

I don’t think he is the kind of politician our country needs right now… but you don’t get a shot at being the nominee without being a pretty shrewd politician.

And you are right. they are all totally out of touch with what it is like to be a normal citizen… and with what the concerns of the normal citizen are…

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[TheHouse]

I’m pissing down my leg with laughter over all of this Obama vs. Rev. Wrong drama.

Maybe if you guys can rally around you can get all of the Dems to simply write in Gore in November!

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[Author]

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