Two soldiers assassinated while at work (1 killed, 1 injured).

[JanS]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/31093911#31093911

you know…yes, they both acted alone, and both were, as far as I’m concerned, delusional, however, listen to Rachel, and tell me if this man who shot Dr. Tiller didn’t have a little “urging”, a little “help” along the way…it’s sort of like the Life Cereal commercial..”let’s let Mikey do it”.

yes..this man listened to nthose who spouted venom about pro-choice docs…but that’s just my opinion.

Now…the man who shot the two soldiers in Arkansas…was under federal watch as an “American terrorist”…and I love the question about how he came across the arsenal that they found, I believe, in his vehicle (including 600 rounds of ammo). Amazing how careful the feds are when watching people…

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[HMC Rich]

Jan I agree with you. Both had point of views. They obviously were influenced by others that shared their views. They are extremists. They committed the ultimate sin.

Regarding the FBI keeping an eye on him. Gee, a government agency not performing at top proficiency? Tell me it isn’t so!!!

Charlabob, Hi. After your post about the right thinking Obama was an islamic terrorist … He goes and says America is one of the largest Muslim nations… Umm he didn’t do anything to change their (right wingnuts) minds did he?

I am truly concerned about his visit to Egypt. I pray for his safety. I personally do not Trust the organization called the Muslim Brotherhood.

What I do take comfort in is what I saw the other night while my son and I were chasing Choo Choo trains. As we were driving to where trains pass by on a side street a young man was praying to Mecca. I smiled because this wonderful country allows all faiths or non-faiths.

I think it was fantastic that you called the WH on their omission. I commend you.

JoB, I gotta ask. Do you honestly believe the WH was holding off on commenting to get more information? Can I then apply that same reasoning to Katrina and 911? I doubt it, but I am just curious. I think you were reaching. I could be wrong and let me know if I am.

The Quandry. Rhetoric is rampant on all sides. If you view something as evil, do you not try to demonize it to make your side seem better or more moral?

Not that I support the tactics but I can see a group using stats to parallel a problem. To an avowed Pro-Life Protester, the Holocaust would be a “comparable” horror.

Dr. Tiller professed to 60,000 abortions. A person committed to stopping him would label him a monster. They would look at the Holocaust and the 6 million as on par with the possible 42 million since ’73 since they would consider both heinous atrocities.

I can see their logic. I do not abide by it but I can see it.

I can see the other side of the argument also. My body, my right. Rape, Incest, Economic woes, Birth Defects, cheating on spouse. I can see the quandry’s.

I think Roe Vs Wade was an activist Federal Decision. I believe it should be turned over back to the states. Of course I believe in Federalism and States Rights instead of Federal Power. I am being consistent.

36 states already ban the type of procedures Mr. Tiller did. There are very few clinics that will offer Women’s Health Service for 3rd Term termination. Just like the movements to sanction Gay Marriage or legalize Marijuana which seem to have more and more support every year, the protesters see support for abortions waning and are going to picket the places they see are in their view the most horrendous.

Anything beyond picketing and voicing their opinions is illegal. Personally I wish Operation Rescue and Code Pink would stop their questionable tactics and try to come to a legal decision through the legislative and lobbying process. I think protesting Rove or Ken Starr was in bad taste at their homes. I would think protesting Blagoyevich or some progressive at their home is in poor taste.

One thing I do know. The liberal press acted as usual and made all kind of judgements about the right and basically ignored the soldier getting murdered (until they couldn’t). There is an agenda permeating the American media with liberal journalists and editors promoting certain causes or candidates. Fortunately we now have the internet too. Don’t get me wrong. The Tiller murder should have been covered, but when an islamic militant targets and kills an American soldier and it is not covered? Something smells fishy.

Mostly it all stinks and I wish it would go away but it won’t.

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[JoB]

HMCRich…

Let’s start with the basics… Roe Vs Wade… 1973.. for the math challenged that is 36 years ago…36 years of opportunities to change the law… with the only real result the passage of the partial birth abortion ban.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade

The salient point in Roe vs Wade is that a pregnancy could be terminated up until the time that the fetus was viable outside the mother’s womb.

You state that 36 states already have laws on their books outlying the types of procedures that Dr Tilly performed. It would be more accurate to say that 36 states have laws on their books that outlaw abortion… and even more accurate to point out that only a handful of those laws were passed after the 1973 Roe vs Wade decision… the majority of those states have simply not legislatively addressed the abortion issue since the 1973 decision when federal law legalized abortion.

While several states do have laws on their books that would ban abortion… federal law trumps state law… so abortion is legal in those states.

A federal law was passed that bans one specific procedure… but no federal law has been passed which bans abortion. Abortion is legal in every state of the United States.

Some states have passed laws since 1973 that would make abortion illegal if Roe vs Wade was overturned. However some states including this one have passed laws that would make abortion legal if Roe vs Wade was overturned. Simply overturning Rose vs Wade would not make abortion illegal in the United States.

So.. is the number of states that have legislatively addressed the abortion issue in the United States since 1973 by making abortion illegal larger than the number of states who have passed laws making abortion legal? I don’t think so.. but either way it is a moot point.

Roe vs Wade has withstood every legal challenge… including the challenge of Presidents appointing Supreme Court Justices on the basis of their stand on Roe vs Wade…

In spite of having pretty much full control of the House and Senate for decades, the republican party did not even attempt to pass federal law that banned abortion..

Since they didn’t, the law stands. Abortion is legal in the United States. A legal medical procedure is not murder.

“Dr. Tiller professed to 60,000 abortions. A person committed to stopping him would label him a monster. They would look at the Holocaust and the 6 million as on par with the possible 42 million since ’73 since they would consider both heinous atrocities.”

Why would anyone.. even someone committed to changing the law on abortion.. label any doctor who performed legal procedures a monster or a murderer if they had not been emotionally inflamed to do so?

Let’s get real here… the current swing in public opinion is directly correlated with the upswing in rhetoric in the right wing of the republican party which not only calls abortion doctors murderers but singles them out by name.

Yes, the number of procedures Dr Tiller’s clinic performed seems high until you factor in the number of years he practiced and the increasing lack of availability of those procedures elsewhere… and the fact that his practice was primarily an abortion practice.

i wonder how many procedures heart specialists or any other specialist performs in their lifetime?

I am sorry but you but saying there is no justification for murder in one sentence and justifying the murder and the resulting rhetoric on the basis of inflammatory statements is inconsistent and inflammatory.

Geez.. they shouldn’t have done that.. but they had their reasons…

That was the basis for the carnage in the south.. geez.. they shouldn’t have done that to that person.. but you can’t let things get out of control… they had their reasons…

if we are going to make comparisons.. comparing vigilante behavior by the right to life coalition to vigilante behavior in the south towards blacks is far more accurate than comparisons between and abortion doctors and Hitler.

If life is so danged sacred… and this is what all of this is really about… where is the concern for living fetuses? … because the same constituency that is pro-life is anti-entitlement programs… that’s what the right calls the safety net for those children.

Even if the fetus was all that mattered.. one would think that nutrition and medical care for pregnant women… steps that prevent the failure of a fetus.. would gain support. But they don’t.

This has nothing to do with those compelling billboards we pass daily… those that show the fetus as a living child… because there is no political concern by the right to life movement for the living child.

“One thing I do know. The liberal press acted as usual and made all kind of judgements about the right”

I ask you.. do you really think this is about the press? Do you think that the press had anything to do with the abortion advocates who were gleeful at the murder of a man?

Because that is the real sticking point here.. the point where all the comparisons between the two murders really stands out… the reaction of one segment of our population to the murder of one of their fellow citizens… talk about bloodlust.

You can’t blame that on the press nor can you blame the press for covering it.

“The Tiller murder should have been covered, but when an islamic militant targets and kills an American soldier and it is not covered?”

You asked what i honestly believed about why the White House may not have commented. I do agree with Charlabob that a statement mourning the loss of soldiers while volunteering for their country would have been appropriate.

But i approve of the restraint of the press and the reluctance of the White House to blow this out of proportion right now.

First.. there is the man you saw praying… inflaming anger and hatred towards Muslims wouldn’t be conducive to his safety… or to that of any other Muslim praying publicly.

Second.. there is President Obama’s trip to Egypt. Making a public issue of the islamic militant nature of the murder before this trip wouldn’t be conducive to his safety there either… nor would it be diplomatically productive.

Third… as the details of this murder begin to trickle out.. there are real questions of public safety here.. this suspect was supposedly on a known terrorist watch list.. and apparently all we did was watch him amass weapons and kill American soldiers.

Aside from the political damage.. which is why this is being trumped by the right… there are real public safety questions here that need to be answered.

But hey.. if inflaming public opinion against individual abortion doctors.. making them the target of those delivering vigilante justice is ok.. then i suppose inflaming public opinion against muslims again… making them the target of those delivering vigilante justice is also ok too and making political hay out of public safety is just an added bonus.

For the record.. i don’t think it’s ok… and i wonder that so many otherwise reasonable people do.

TheHouse…

You are not being respectful of American soldiers when you jump at the chance to use the death of an American Serviceman in the service of their country (they were volunteering at a recruiting center) as a political bargaining chip…

In your haste to make your point you neglected to discover that these soldiers were the victims of muslim extremism… not an American political movement.. and certainly not a leftist American political movement.

These soldiers were killed in the line of duty. Have some respect not only for them but for the families who grieve their loss.

I am sorry if righteousness blinds you to the inappropriateness of your remarks… but they are never-the-less inappropriate and disrespectful of those soldiers.

You call my posts a rant. It’s too bad you don’t understand the difference between a rant and a reasoned argument.. but i suspect i can’t change that either.

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[JoB]

context:

yesterday’s speech in Cairo…

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-at-Cairo-University-6-04-09/

do we support efforts at making peace and having the Muslim world hold it’s own extremists accountable?

or do we inflame American passions at home… cranking up the rhetoric and giving the Muslim world excuses not to hold their own extremists accountable?

In my opinion… we hold ourselves accountable for our own extremists and expect the Muslim world to do the same while prosecuting all violent extremists within our borders to the full extent of the law.

In my opinion… holding the extremists within our own borders who encourage domestic terrorists requires the same public censure of those who advocate violence and single out other citizens for harassment based on their race, creed or sex as we expect from reasonable people of Muslim faith in regards to their own extremists.

To be clear.. i do not use the word creed in the strictest sense.. but that of belief systems.. religious, political or otherwise…

That’s my opinion and I am sticking to it.

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[Author]

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