student-teacher ratios

[mom2soren]

My preschooler currently attends preschool at a private school that goes up to 5th grade. The ratios at his school are 2:14 to 2:16 (teachers:students per classroom). We are considering public kindergarten, but my primary concern are the teacher-student ratios. I can’t find this info on the public school blogs. If we transfer to public schools, we permanently lose our spot at our current private school — but it’s expensive, so I’d like to research alternatives.

We are looking at Pathfinder or Sanislo. I’ve seen that classrooms have about 28-32 students each, and they seem to have only one teacher. Is this true? Do the classrooms have assistants?

I know that there are websites that list student-teacher ratios, but many of these are erroneous. What actually matters is the number of teachers in each classroom (not the number of faculty compared to student body, which can give an artificial ratio).

I would appreciate any info from a parent or teacher who actually knows the classroom set-up at either of these schools, or at any public school in King county. Also, if parents/teachers believe the ratios do not have a huge impact on their student’s education at either of these schools, I’d love to hear about it. Thanks.

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[ellenater]

I can’t speak to your two specifics but usually there are aids. Sometimes these are students, graduate or otherwise. Other times they are children from upper grades. And sometimes they are parents. Keep in mind that the school will always make it seem ideal-whatever their situation is. I think the group of kids really matters as well as your kid!

Good luck :)

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[add]

Unfortunately it often varies from year to year due to budget decisions. At Pathfinder this year I believe the K-1 grade bands did not exceed 25 students per classroom (I might be wrong on that). There are sometimes “tutors” in the room but they are part time at best. Each year parent involvement also varies – some years there’s at least one additional adult volunteer in the room every day all day and some times it’s more sporadic depending on family commitments. It’s a really hard one to answer definitively! I would call the schools you’re interested and ask them to give you an honest estimate of next year’s class sizes and project ratios considering plans for teachers/aides/tutors.

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[ebaer]

For Seattle Public Schools, the ratios will all be about the same for non-Title I schools (those schools that do not get additional federal money because of high poverty rates.) This is because the schools are allocated a particular number of teachers by the District based on their enrollments (called “weighted staffing”). It used to be that schools were given money that they could use at their discretion – they could, for instance use money to buy down class size or to buy additional instructional support. This was called “weighted student” funding because schools got money based on the number of students. In the push for greater homogenization from the District, it really eliminated the ability of schools to determine their class sizes. So the bad news is that 1) the schools can’t really tell you how big their classes will be and 2) they can’t do anything about it even if they wanted to. (BTW, there is a contractual limit on class sizes that is below the numbers you note, so those numbers are a bit high).

Given this, I might look at the level of parent support in the classroom. I makes a huge difference.

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[SpeakLoud]

The simple answer is YES these really are the ratios-and with more kids moving into fewer schools they will maximize them. 1 teacher to 25 students is about as good as you will find in public school.

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[Maryann Horsley]

Sanislo has lower rations than you state. In addition, the 2 kindergarten classrooms team-teach many lessons and have aids in the classroom. Team-teachng take place at all grade levels (2 classes per grades) as students go into reading groups or math groups with an IA or aid, thus having an even small teacher to student ratio. Sanislo is a great school, not only for the team-teaching and ‘open-concept style’ but for its diversity, clubs, and active student body!

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[Que]

Gatewood is less than the numbers that you state. Even with the influx of students that we will be getting next year, we are going to fight to keep small class size, as it is incredibly important to our parents. We fundraise in order to pay for an extra 1/2 a teacher every year, which helps us to reduce class size.

I truly believe it makes a difference.

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[sunshine]

Consider identifying your child’s learning and social style, then finding a school (public or private) that is a good match. My kids have been out of elementary school for more than a decade – so I can’t comment about the climate or conditions at any WS schools now.

But I can say that my sons had wildly differing experiences at the same schools (public and private), because they had wildly different learning and social styles.

Student to Adult ratio may be more important than student to teacher ratio. Private schools have the great luxury of declining to accept students with needs and abilities outside of a scope they get to define. Public schools, in general but with exceptions, have the benefit of a less constrained social setting.

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[mom2soren]

We’ve already determined that our kid benefits from low student:teacher ratios.

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[beachdrivegirl]

Unfortunately yes the student rations are that high. It drives my mom, a teacher, insane because your kid is in the norm. All kids learn better & have better results in low student:teacher ratios. However, with the funding constantly being cut they have to constantly increase class sizes.

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[Traci]

A 2:14 classroom would be a dream come true! http://www.greatschools.net is a good resource, and is pretty current on individual school ratios, etc for public schools.

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[St. Christopher Academy]

For a small classroom ratio for students in high school with special learning differences such as ADD/ADHD and/or Dyslexia, check out St. Christopher Academy housed within Seattle Lutheran High School. Ratio is 1:5 or 1:8 at the very most. Nice, small classes, smaller educational environment. Plus very close contact with parents.

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[JanS]

Having had a child grow up in the public school system in Seattle, I feel your pain. I do have a question, though. When you were a child, how big were your classes? were they ideal? 2:14? 1:16? Anything close to this? I am 62, I went to grade school in the 50’s, junior high and high school in the 60’s, and 1 teacher to a classroom of 30 was the norm. What is different now? We did it, we handled it, we got a decent education. Some students had the same learning disabilities (although weren’t called the same things back then)..so…I am wondering…what has changed? I’m asking this as a serious question…I want to know your opinions on this, as parents of children just coming into the system. Thanks…

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[mom2soren]

My husband and I are products of public education. We each remember years of feeling under-stimulated and bored, and having generally disinterested teachers. The dysfunctional social scene dominated school (teenagers), not academics. Drugs were rampant. Now gangs and gun crimes are prevalent. The violence has just escalated. I think children are lost early in a public education that doesn’t have enough time to devote to each child. Additionally, many teachers feel unsupported and burned out. I’ve been pm’d by a few, and had discussions with several I know. “Low ratios” simply mean that my child has a reduced chance of being lost early in the educational system. Just my take.

My husband and I were each “lost” to our public school systems, and it took many years to catch up and finally attend college and such.

Teacher enthusiasm and parental participation can alleviate these problems. That’s why we’re looking for a good public school first (cheaper), but will consider private if it’s truly our best option (individualized attention). Any input appreciated.

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[Gina]

In the 1968-69 school year at Lafayette, my 3rd grade class had 36 pupils, and the teacher was 1st year probationary,(final year of education degree) without supervision or support, in a portable.

1. I was seated in the back row. Had the most fun of my life in the classroom. No way for her to see what we were up to back there.

2. The teacher felt uncomfortable teaching math, told parents we would catch up later, and we watched Spanish lessons on a tv instead.

I didn’t care for math, so it was good news to me.

3. Being in the back row, I sat near the heater, and I dried quickly during the wet Seattle weather.

I don’t think that it would have been any better with a lower student ratio in that class. I think it depends on the teacher, and the environment that the principal allows. The principal at the time strongly discouraged any parental involvement other than chaperoning field trips.

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[Lena]

As a child of the public education system myself, I feel that I did well in school but learned more about how to get by and do what was expected than actually learning. Schools were originally set up to train people to work in factories. Take orders, do what you are told, show up on time and keep your mouth shut.

It seems what we need right now is to encourage kids to be creative and love learning. If a young person is shown how to love learning and problem solve themselves they can do about anything they put their mind to. And they are happy to do it.

Unfortunately that is hard with the large class sizes at many of the schools.

I think one of the main differences between now and back when I was in school is the level of parent involvement. Most parents work these days and don’t have the time to be as active with their children.

I feel like we have been extremely fortunately to find a private school, Puget Sound Community School (http://www.pscs.org/), for our son, with very supportive teachers, a large number of volunteers and an amazing student to teacher ratio (6:1 without volunteers although most classes are more like 4:1 or less). I actually have a child who likes going to school and wants to do his homework! Much different than when he was in public schools.

I don’t have a good answer to the education problems but public schools are clearly not working for many kids (including my son who was in them for six years). It seems like looking at some of the more alternative models of education and not trying so hard to standardize everything would be a first step. We all learn differently and having more diversity in the style of education in the public schools would help.

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[Erik]

“It seems what we need right now is to encourage kids to be creative and love learning. If a young person is shown how to love learning and problem solve themselves they can do about anything they put their mind to. And they are happy to do it.”

Yes, this is what infants naturally do. They already know how to learn. Unfortunately, we live in a society that rewards achievement over learning, so the natural organic learning we’re all born with goes out the window as we learn to please the adults in our lives. As we’re made to understand that the only two choices we have is the right way or the wrong way…creativity is shut out of the picture.

I remember thinking during my feldenkrais training (sorry for the shameless plug) that “this is what school should’ve been about.” The process of discovery and learning how to learn. When we have a love of learning, difficult problems become much easier both on a physical and mental level.

I think the change will probably have to occur on the private level first before the public sector will embrace any experiential ideas of learning.

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