Home › Forums › West Seattle Rants & Raves › Rant.. why feminism still matters
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April 23, 2008 at 3:52 am #586810
JoBParticipantfrom today’s inbox:
Today is Equal Pay Day 2008.
It took an extra 4 months for women to earn the same pay as their male counterparts earned in 2007…
4 months!
I think that says it all…
Until the average wage for women equals the average wage for men.. our job isn’t done.
and don’t even get me started on the challenges to reproductive freedom… or the political reality.
April 23, 2008 at 4:04 am #622714
TheHouseMemberDepends on what industry you’re in….
Women make more money than men in the stripping and porn industry.
April 23, 2008 at 4:07 am #622715
JanSParticipantand you’ll be pleased to note that tomorrow is Admin. Professionals Day…remember what it used to be called? Give them flowers for a day, and they’ll be happy the rest of the year…we still have a long way to go…
April 23, 2008 at 4:09 am #622716
JanSParticipantoh, thanks, House…that’s definitely a claim to fame…guess there really are some things we’re better at ;-)
April 23, 2008 at 4:23 am #622717
JoBParticipanthouse…
the overall average pay for men and women does not depend on what industry they are in…
and that remark was insulting, demeaning and irrelevent.
were you meaning to infer that if more women used their sexual ploys to generate income that the average pay for women would rise and somehow that would make us more equal?
Crawl back under you bridge immediately.. and don’t come back out unless you have something relevent to say.
April 23, 2008 at 5:26 am #622718
credmondParticipantIs this also true for individual entrepreneurs? I know quite a few men and women owners of businesses and all of them seem to be doing well so I’m wondering if the disparity holds true there as well.
April 23, 2008 at 5:38 am #622719
TheHouseMemberAh, JoB. I wasn’t inferring anything. It is a fact.
I’m not going to ask how my comment was insulting, demeaning and irrelevant when it is factual.
That’s not to mention that the way you stated your original post is in a provoking manner.
And just for your information, I am a hiring manager and gender has nothing to do with what my offer letters state.
I’ll crawl under the bridge if you jump off of it.
April 23, 2008 at 5:43 am #622720
AnonymousInactiveHouse… Are you sure? The one time I witnessed a MALE stripper, a LOT of money was passed! Lol!
April 23, 2008 at 6:58 am #622721
LBGMemberHey JoB…just curious where that info comes from? I read an interesting economics book lately that shed a little light on this subject for me.
There was a lot of info, but to summarize, the book stated that those numbers don’t reflect certain life choices that are being made by women today. It is too much of a generalization to take all men and all women and average out what they are paid.
Whether you agree with it or not, a lot of women will take a break from their career to raise a family. when they re-enter the work force, they are years behind men in the same field as far as a pay scale is concerned. they are caught in kind of a catch up game with no real way of winning.
When the author made a straight comparison of men and women who had not deviated from their career path, the results showed that women actually exceeded men in pay in most fields and in pay overall.
I, for one, applaud these findings. Women SHOULD be paid the same as men. I personally believe that stay at home mom’s(such as my wife) should be paid MORE than men. I have to maybe multi-task two to three things at a time, my wife would classify that as child’s play…
just something to chew on….
April 23, 2008 at 7:16 am #622722
JanSParticipantI notice, LBG, that you make no mention of a man taking time out from his career to raise a family…all things being equal and all…:)
and, yes, being a stay at home mom is a thankless job. If she was paid for all the things that she does, well, it goes without saying that she’d be rich…
April 23, 2008 at 7:19 am #622723April 23, 2008 at 7:22 am #622724
JanSParticipantApril 23, 2008 at 7:24 am #622725
JanSParticipantscroll to the bottom and click on Equal Pay Day Fact sheet…..
April 23, 2008 at 7:24 am #622726
socratesMemberLBG makes some good points. Notably, that many women, like my wife, intentionally sacrifice career ambitions for making a home run well and raising quality children. Frankly, I’m grateful to her for that choice.
Question (I’m not trying to be provoking, but rather am genuinely curious): Could it be that womens’ pay is lower on average partly b/c employers know that a certain percentage of them will leave the job due to family commitment? What about the facts of higher health insurance costs for employers that have women on staff as opposed to men?
April 23, 2008 at 7:32 am #622727
LBGMemberHey JanS…I’m sure that some men do take time out to raise a family…didn’t Michael Keaton do that in Mr. Mom or was it Batman?:) The statistics show that it is an overwhelming majority of women that stay home to raise a family. I would love the opportunity to stay home with my munchkins…they make the best pretend tea ever….by the way, my wife would rival Bill Gates if she was paid for what she does.
April 23, 2008 at 7:37 am #622728
JanSParticipantwell, we’re waiting for the day when men will have babies, and then maybe all things will be equal. I know that’s a pretty facetious statement…but having the physical ability to bear children should have nothing to do with what you’re paid in the workforce. Perhaps the woman should give birth and let the dad leave the workforce for a while to take care of baby…..would that make things equal? Yes, it’s a curiosity as to why it happens…I agree…
April 23, 2008 at 7:42 am #622729
socratesMemberNewsflash…
Men and women are not the same.
Generally (of course there are exceptions), women are much better at nurturing young children. Lord knows, my son is better off with mom home with him than me!
April 23, 2008 at 7:50 am #622730
LBGMemberJanS…this has nothing to do with this thread but just wanted to say thanks for the tip on the luna at Elliot Bay…I fancy myself to be somewhat of a hefe connoisseur and am excited to try it.
April 23, 2008 at 8:25 am #622731
AnonymousInactiveThis is not a clear sided issue. I think everyone is a little right and a little wrong. Sometimes statistics get slanted, sometimes they contradict each other. You are often left with anecdotal evidence.
You have women who choose to take care of a family, and then their spouse leaves them to support herself with no skills or education. You have employers put a lot of money into training a female and then she quits b/c she’s pregnant.
I’ve seen men work well as a team, I’ve seen women try to kill each other. There are men who won’t hire any women to avoid ever having to deal with harassment allegations, real or imagined. There are women who won’t hire men b/c they’re afraid of harassment.
As a women I’ve had to train men to work my position, as a manager and as a professional baker. The men where paid a higher salary than me when they completed training. This really pissed me off.
On the other hand, I’ve had 50 employees under me and the guys were easier to instruct and get along with. I tended to favor them in hiring without being conscious of it. No one likes to admit that most women do not like to be told what to do.
You can’t discuss real life scenarios with out offending someone or being labeled sexist. Just the info I’ve given, there are some who will say I betrayed my gender, whatever that means. All I know is it’s not so cut and dried. I also think it’s unfair to imply all men are the cause of wage disparity.
I think we need open minds and open dialog. So far the men who have posted in this thread seem really decent. We have to remember this is not an us against them situation.
April 23, 2008 at 1:08 pm #622732
KayleighMemberMy experience in the workplace is that men and women can be jerks in equal measure, but it’s women who have betrayed my confidence, talked behind my back, undermined me, tried to get me fired (which worked once), etc.
In other words, I trust men better than I do women, not because men behave better, but because when men behave badly, it’s generally above-board, not personal, and I see it coming. With so many women, I’ve never seen the crap till it hits me.
April 23, 2008 at 1:35 pm #622733
charlabobParticipantKL, I was all set to jump in this thread with a defense of women — until I read what you said. Sadly your experience matches mine. Wild-Ass-Generalization: Women are more prone to passive agressiveness because we’re trained to “be nice” and “avoid conflict.” (You-all might have noticed I missed those lessons :-)
I have run into a lot of PA men, but, in general, women who are direct, competitive, even confrontational are rare. Since we usually have the same instinct for getting ahead, we resort to tactics that are harder to fight.
April 23, 2008 at 2:42 pm #622734
charlabobParticipantNew Study Says Women To Start Dropping Like Flies
For most of recent human history, one of the few places where women have dominated is on the actuarial charts. But the big news today: Life expectancy for women has plummeted in 1,000 counties across the country, in one area by nearly five years. The drop is unprecedented, and marks the first time since the 1800s that women have seen a major dip in longevity. The reasons for the drop aren’t too surprising, largely because they track pretty closely to the Virginia Slims revolution, or the time when women embraced smoking in rates closer to men’s. While men have reaped huge health benefits from kicking the habit, women are still dying in high numbers from smoking-related lung cancer. Obesity is also playing a huge role, with its complications from type-2 diabetes and other heart-related illnesses. The feminist movement, it seems, has not just brought women opportunities to live more like men, but also to die like them
April 23, 2008 at 2:56 pm #622735
beachdrivegirlParticipantI think Racism is a biger issue than Sexism.
In my industry most women actually do better than the men when they first start out.
I also think that alot of womend do decide to leave their career and to be a stay at home mom and that is why the salary gap seems larger than what it actually is. (There is a women who’s husband is a stay-at-home dad at my office and I think that is great.:) )
House keep your comments coming. I dont think it was offensive or demeaning and in fact it gave me quite the chuckle this mornign.
Lastly, I think we will be seeing big changes in that gap in the future because there were more women registered in college then men when I was going to school just three years ago.
April 23, 2008 at 3:12 pm #622736
beachdrivegirlParticipantI also remember reading somewhere that one of the leading cuases of the pay gap or any gap in the workplace is not that boss’s/manager’s are looking @ the sex of the employee, but that men are typically asking for promotions, pay raises, and negotiating even their starting pay while the women just accept what is given to them. As a women in the work field who wants to continue to grow in her career I constantly am meeting with all upper management about what my career/financial goals are and what they feel i need to do to achieve them. That is why two years ago I was the first one of my team (there were five of us on the team and I was the only women and the newest employee) to be promoted because I had let upper management in on the secret of my goals and wants.
April 23, 2008 at 5:06 pm #622737
AnonymousInactiveKayleigh – I completely, 100% agree with your post. I don’t work in a traditional office setting, but even with regards to my personal life, I trust men a lot more than I trust women.
With the exception of one female, all of my closest friends are male.
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