Home › Forums › West Seattle Rants & Raves › RANT – NEW Yard Waste and Food Container Rules
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March 30, 2009 at 11:13 pm #662632
vincentMemberNo, your separate households, its not the cities fault you decided to buy a postage stamp yard and cannot accommodate waste containers like other households.
Your right someone could come up with a inventive solution around it, but thats not really the point. Buyers remorse about your zero lot line isn’t really the city’s fault.
March 30, 2009 at 11:23 pm #662633
christopherboffoliParticipantVincent: Our townhouses actually were built with considerable setbacks. Each of us has a yard. So it is not at all a question of buyer’s remorse as space is only one of the considerations. The issue is more about efficiency, with the City charging us for mandatory capacity when one bin would be more efficient for all. I was looking more for objective opinions about this issue, not judgment from those with axes to grind about density and the increasing prevalence of townhouses in West Seattle.
March 30, 2009 at 11:27 pm #662634
GenHillOneParticipantChristopher, any chance you have a HOA that could be the “customer”?
March 30, 2009 at 11:35 pm #662635
vincentMemberI don’t have any issue with density, just townhouses. They look like a home depot workshop threw up on half a lot until it was three stories high.
Your asking to be special in the eyes of a city utility for no reason other than you think you should be because your right on top of your neighbor. I could ask the city to put a huge compost dumpster in my yard so I can collect for the whole block, cause thats more efficient right?
March 31, 2009 at 12:21 am #662636
christopherboffoliParticipantGenHillOne: Each of us is an independent owner and we don’t pay any kind of dues or common maintenance fees. But I think you’re on the right track. It is obviously easier for the City to look at one apartment building and view it as a multi-family entity. But it is not so obvious when the place is built as one structure but assigned four addresses. I’ve got SPU at least thinking about the issue. They’re going to send out an inspector to take a look.
Vincent: Clearly you’ve got some issues. But I’d encourage you to consider that all townhouses are not built the same. Very little of my architect-designed house was sourced from Home Depot. And while you and I might not like some of the less-thoughtfully-designed townhouses, the people who occupy them probably pay just as much tax as you and I. Beyond that they are choosing to live in a way that is a more thoughtful use of space in an urban environment. So I think they deserve just as much respect and consideration as those who choose to live by a wasteful, outdated ideal of having houses surrounded by lots of banal, chemically treated laws.
We pay for utilities like water, gas and power based on how much we use. In the case of garbage, recycling, yard waste and food scraps the charges are more arbitrary. I am asking the City to do nothing but to continue to charge me for my 96 gallon container and to stop charging my three neighbors for mandatory containers. If I rented an apartment I would be granted this courtesy. But as an owner of a house and a property taxpayer I am not.
One trash collection per block WOULD be more efficient as the City would only have to collect from one point. In fact, mail delivery would be easier too if there were one point on the block at which the USPS had to deliver. But I expect we all pay more for the system we have simply because people don’t like to walk if they can avoid it.
In this case we already have a 96 gallon container that could serve all four households with room to spare. We are being told that we need to have four smaller containers at more expense to everyone. Your dumpster example is made deliberately obtuse to make your point. Yes, a dumpster would look out of place on your lawn (or maybe not). But the 96 gallon container we already have is perfectly suited to the task. My issue is being mandated to pay double for less capacity.
March 31, 2009 at 2:27 am #662637
B-squaredParticipantThis may just be one of the kinks that will need to be ironed out as the new system is implemented. i can completely see your point, christopher. perhaps when the city hears more complaints about not accomodating your housing scenario, it will get on their radar that it needs a different solution. i can see, with density being encouraged, that this will continue to be an issue. in the meantime, encourage the squeaky-wheel to squeak!
March 31, 2009 at 3:44 am #662638
christopherboffoliParticipantB-squared: Thanks. With all of the multi-family townhouse units in Seattle I’m surprised they didn’t think of this. I’ll be curious to hear what the SPU inspector says when they come out.
March 31, 2009 at 4:39 am #662639
rockergirlMemberWhile I am very happy about more recycling options and being able to dispose of food waste scraps, etc. I am not happy about having to pay more for these services and I think Seattle Public Utilities (like many city departments) has gotten out of control.
It sounds like you and your neighbors are getting a great deal Christopher and I wish my yearly rate was that low – as an individual residential homeowners we are using the same size containers we have had for several years (smallest garbage container micro-can 12 gallon is now $14.05 per month x 12 = $168.60 per year) + yard and food waste recycling (96-gallon at $6.90/month x 12 = $82.80) for a yearly total of $250+. Cost has just gone up over 25% more under the new program and will again be raised in Jan 2010 another 10% or more. While I understand there are some issues especially since most town homes barely have room to park a car let alone store any waste disposal units it would make sense to have a large one for all 4 units and as you said would be more efficient. We can also thank the Utilities for another fiasco taking place right now which is the Fire Hydrants Court Decision “rebate” which in essence they are billing us to get by adding a temporary surcharge of ten and two tenths percent (10.2%) will be added to the cost of water service – both the base service and water consumption charges – supplied to residential and commercial customers for the period March 31, 2009 through December 31, 2010. So basically we have to pay them more so they have money “in reserve” to give us a rebate. What a joke this is – check it out if you need more info. http://www.ci.seattle.wa.us/util/About_SPU/News/Current_Issues/SPU02_014674.asp
March 31, 2009 at 4:51 am #662640
MaterMemberI think all of the changes are crap. We used to live in a townhome and none of us (3 separate residences) had a yard waste container. Yes, we had a decent sized yard for a townhouse but rarely had the need and instead we needed our space in our yard to not house a huge yard waste container. FINALLY, we decided to get one and we all used it. We kept it at one of our houses and we all took advantage of it. It made the most sense. I think it’s dumb to force this on people. Just because they now have a small yard waste container and have to pay for it doesn’t make them actually use it. We now own a single family residence and our current yard waste is 96 gallon but we’re changing that tomorrow to the 32 gallon size. I’d rather save my $1.50/month and have smaller sized container in my yard.
March 31, 2009 at 5:38 am #662641
mrhinehMember“those who choose to live by a wasteful, outdated ideal of having houses surrounded by lots of banal, chemically treated laws.”
My, my. THAT is sure High and Mighty of you.
March 31, 2009 at 2:16 pm #662642
BogieParticipantchristopherboffoli: While I totally agree that it would make much more sense for you and your neighbors to share a yard waste bin, think of it from the city’s logistics side. Not all townhouse neighbors get along. For the city to try and analyze every townhouse group in the city for whether they can share a bin or must have separate bins would be a huge undertaking. And if they decide groups of townhouses can file to share a bin, what happens when there is a new resident who decides they don’t want to pay for the shared bin? Or when one neighbor doesn’t pay? Is it then up to the city to collect the money, or the neighbor who’s name is on the bill for the bin? For them to make an exception for you could open a lot of other issues.
That being said, I’m not excited that the city is making everyone pay for composting. Just trying to bring another viewpoint. Can your neighbors claim they do their own composting and then use your bin?
March 31, 2009 at 2:55 pm #662643
KeithMemberPerhaps when the glass bins are taken away there will be more room for your composting bins?
I was up at 5 am chasing all manner of my neighbors’ garbage/recycling containers around our windblown alley. Secure your cans, people!
March 31, 2009 at 3:25 pm #662644
christopherboffoliParticipantBogie: Not all townhouse owners get along? Gee, everyone gets along so well here in the WSB Forums that I just assumed that they did. :-)
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I totally understand what you’re saying and I agree with your thinking. But we’re not expecting the City to develop a different plan for each household. We’re just asking the City to consider when there ARE cases in which a common bin would work for multi-family units that they grant those requests, saving money for homeowners and simplifying pick-up for the truck. And again, so as not to add complexity I’ve offered to take on the burden of being billed for the common bin and collecting the annual $20 each from my neighbors. My neighbors are kind, responsible people who I trust. But even if one of them were to stiff me one year it would still be cheaper than what I am paying now.
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Keith: We’ve always had to keep our glass bins on top of our recycling bins. So there is no space savings.
March 31, 2009 at 3:55 pm #662645
JoBParticipanti too have found the utility somewhat inflexible… but we will continue to pay for our 96 gal yard waste container so that the spring and fall trimming wastes are picked up. If not for those trimmings, i could get by with a small cart.
Yes, i live in a house surrounded by a yard though i would beg to differ with calling it “wasteful, outdated ideal of having houses surrounded by lots of banal, chemically treated lawns.”
Aside from the fact that my two dogs get endless enjoyment from our yard, if the garden gods cooperate, i suspect that even christopher will approve of the bounty from this wasteful space:)
i have been using a food waste container in the house for a month now to gauge my need and i was surprised how much the volume increased when i collected all food waste and not just the trimmings from vegetables.
Christopher, you are thinking of this just from the perspective of current cost and efficiency but it doesn’t sound like you have considered the increased need the new guidelines offer.
And one more question.. will you gladly pay the fines assessed because if your neighbors decide not to follow the new guidelines and dump all their garbage in the trash as usual?
While you may be reasonably certain of your current neighbors, are you personally willing to assume that risk for future neighbors?
This might be a more complex issue than it appears.
March 31, 2009 at 5:14 pm #662646
kellymParticipantmaybe this should be a new post, but anyone who has some good suggestions of containers to be used in house to collect the scraps(ugh that’s why i have a disposal for most of that) and cost and place to purchase could you let the rest of us know?
March 31, 2009 at 5:34 pm #662647
christopherboffoliParticipantJob: My point was that, close to an urban center, much denser development is a more efficient and sensible use of space. And we’re seeing this now with old single-family structures being torn down and replaced with multi-family houses on smaller footprints. Things are changing. And I think it is clear from a lot of the comments that percolate up in these Forums that there is a lot of anxiety about these changes in particular here in West Seattle. Townhouses and density are usually at the center of the dart board but the root causes of the anxiety are usually something else.
For the second half of the 20th Century lots of American space (mostly farmland) was sold off and converted into some kind of suburban Levittown dream. The model resulted in us building everything in a way that makes us reliant on cars. A geography of nowhere. I’m sure anyone can come up with endless reasons why they NEED to have a big yard, just as everyone feels they NEED to have cars and lots of spaces to park them. That’s your choice. I’m choosing to live in another way.
I’ve never understood the fascination with lawns and the billions of gallons of water that go into irrigating them. Not to mention all of the chemical fertilizers, weed killers, bug poisons and loud, pollution-spewing machinery used to maintain them. Consider that the amount of space in the US devoted to lawns handily eclipses the amount of space devoted to food crops. It’s just a waste of space and resources. Even the best kept lawns seem really boring to me. I think maybe people don’t give it a lot of thought. They just slave away maintaining them because they can’t think of anything else.
I have carefully considered all facets of this yard waste issue and not just the costs involved. The City seems capable of dealing with the complexity of monitoring exactly how much water, gas and electricity every one of its households consumes. This situation is simpler. And they already handle common collection points for apartment buildings. I’m confident in the intelligence and reliability of my three abutting neighbors. We’ve all been using the yard waste/food scrap containers all along. So I think we have a good sense of capacity issues. Increases in the types of acceptable scraps will be more than offset by weekly collection. 96 gallons will be more than enough capacity for our four households.
March 31, 2009 at 5:42 pm #662648
christopherboffoliParticipantkellym: I use 8 quart plastic food storage tubs that I bought at a kitchen supply store over in SoDo. They come in various sizes and have tight-fitting lids to control smells and fruit flies. I’m sure I’ve seen compost pails that have charcoal filters built into the lid. But I find that a liberal sprinkle of baking soda, as well as frequent emptying, helps.
March 31, 2009 at 6:06 pm #662649
SueParticipantkellym, we’ve been using this container from BioBags – http://www.biobagusa.com/combi.htm – and have been very happy with it over the past year. Don’t know how “odor free” it’ll be with raw chicken and stuff like that in it, but we do take it out regularly.
March 31, 2009 at 10:43 pm #662650
alki_2008Participantkellym, you might find some useful info in this thread: https://westseattleblog.com/blog/forum/topic.php?id=4147
chris, good luck (seriously) with getting an exception from the utilities. I’ve had a couple of issues with their biliing logic in the past, but they just won’t make changes for just a few.
Part of the problem is that if townhouse owners are allowed to consolidate, then single family house owners would want the same ‘special treatment’? Me and a couple neighbors (in houses) could definitely share and split the cost. It will become a huge mess for the utility and then they’ll probably want to raise the cost (again) to account for the extra “administrative costs” involved with handling the exceptions.
I’m not sure your comparison to an apartment building or ‘multi-family’ structure will work, since the zero-lot line TH’s are NOT the same as multi-family units. Apartment residents don’t get separate bills from the city. The city sends ONE bill for the entire building, and it’s up to the landlord to bill residents individually or not. TH’s are great for some, but there are compromises about buying any of the various no HOA, zero-lot line TH’s…and this is just another of them. One of the reasons, besides all the stairs, that I chose a single family house instead.
April 1, 2009 at 12:58 am #662651
rockergirlMemberFor kitchen scraps and waste – I found a link to a coupon for EcoSafe Kitchen Catcher Kit – $3.00 off kit – looks like a reasonable container – check it out.
http://www.seattle.gov/UTIL/Services/Recycling/
Recycle_at_Your_House/SPU01_004259.asp
• Seattle residents and businesses will be able to reduce, reuse, and recycle more than ever before! Seattle businesses are offering discount coupons to help you reduce, recycle and compost. Printable coupons (PDF).
EcoSafe_Kitchen_Catcher_Kit-details.aspx
April 1, 2009 at 2:21 pm #662652
girltraceyMemberchristopherboffoli ~ Sorry I don’t have time to read the entire post so someone may have already mentioned this but I believe you can opt out of the food waste bin and service. Call SPU, I believe they will send you a form to fill out and return. I’m considering the opt out, I have a garbage disposal for table scraps and I rarely eat at home anyway. Again sorry if this has already been mentioned.
April 1, 2009 at 4:19 pm #662653
beachdrivegirlParticipantgirltracey that had not been mentioned and that is really big news to people like me. thanks for sharing!
April 1, 2009 at 4:28 pm #662654
austinMemberFrom what I’ve read you can opt out if you compost at home, not just if you don’t think you should have to use the service. The four options on the “Want To Change Your Food/Yard Collection Service?” form are 13-gal, 32-gal, 96-gal, and “I want an exemption from food and yard waste collection because I compost food and yard waste at home. (A city representative may contact you to confirm your home composting exemption.)”
April 1, 2009 at 6:52 pm #662655
girltraceyMemberThanks for the info Austin. I admit I haven’t looked into all the details yet. I have a townhouse like ChrisB. I don’t have a yard so I don’t have yard waste or grass trimmings and since I have a disposal I don’t have food scraps. I don’t know what I would put in the nice, shiny new container.
April 1, 2009 at 11:42 pm #662656
KayzelMemberMy High Point SFR neighbors and I made a similar formal request to consolidate yard waste/food scrap bins whereby we would work out sharing the cost amongst ourselves. [Our trash and recycling is collected by Impact Property Services (which has announced it will be 3 weeks behind schedule in getting the new bins to residences)which follows City SPU regulations.] Response: No go, no discussion. A big concern for us here, besides the inefficiency (I was going to say ‘waste’) of the thing is that on our street each customers’ groups of bins are lined up chockablock only a few feet away from one another: Trash/Recycling/Food Waste/Yard Waste. There could easily be 112 bins lined up in a row along one block’s length. The potential for odor and vermin seems very high, especially in the summer months. All the negatives, including cost to the city, could be alleviated by sharing. We support the recycling goals, but will continue to ask for a more sensible, more flexible application.
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