rant meat processing

[dufus]

I am bored with my own rant… but I can’t help myself with addressing the carnitine issue. Perhaps someone has eaten too many a red herring and not enough avocado?

What I’ve read does not support any reason to worry about a deficiency even if vegan. Nutritional carnitine deficiencies have not been identified in healthy people without metabolic disorders:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/othernuts/carnitine/

Most people obtain sufficient carnitine because of the body’s natural production of the substance as well as from their diets. Most people can synthesize enough L-carnitine. Even strict vegetarians (vegans) show no signs of carnitine deficiency, despite the fact that most dietary carnitine is derived from animal sources

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/carnitine

Apparently, our bodies make 25% of our carnitine requirements. The other 75% we should get from our diet.

Humans can synthsize L-carnitine from the amino acids lysine and methionine in a multi-step process. Specifically, protein-bound lysine is enzymatically methylated to form episilon-N-trimethyllysine; three molecules of methionine provide the methyl groups for the reaction. Epsilon-N-trimethyllysine is released for carnitine synthesis through normal mechanisms of protein hydrolysis. Several enzymes are involved in endogenous L-carnitine biosynthesis. The enzyme gamma-butyrobetaine hydroxylase, however, is absent from cardiac and skeletal muscle but highly expressed in human liver, testes, and kidney. The rate of L-carnitine biosynthesis in humans was studied in vegetarians and is estimated to be 1.2 micromol/kg of body weight/day (8). Changes in dietary carnitine intake or renal reabsorption do not appear to effect the rate of endogenous carnitine synthesis (1).

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/othernuts/carnitine/#biosynthesis

It’s all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You stole fizzy lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!

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[sna]

I dont want to be informed. I just want bacon.

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[JoB]

dufus…

“Perhaps someone has eaten too many a red herring and not enough avocado?”

that’s a little rude.. don’t you think?

And.. oh so wrong. My avocado consumption has far outweighed my herring consumption.. red or otherwise.

In fact if i don’t double or triple or even quadruple your avocado consumption i will happily buy you the beverage of your choice.

If i remember correctly.. and i do.. i set the premise that there is a difference between surviving and thriving and that an unhealthy body is a better indicator of what the human body really needs to thrive.

As it turns out.. most chronically unhealthy bodies benefit from increases in carnatine… and in amounts that are difficult to consume without either relying on supplements or eating meat… no matter how much you like avocados….

and i do like avocados.

“It’s all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You stole fizzy lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir! “

except for the part where you obviously didn’t bother reading the list of illnesses in which carnatine supplementation has been proven helpful…

or simply don’t really understand the underlying requirements for the metabolic process you outlined. …

I really do regret to inform you that the latest research shows that carnatine supplementation does not restore energy for those suffering from irritable bowel..

even that expressed orally.

increasing your avocado intake won’t help :(

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[HunterG]

dufus, I for one want to thank you for posting this. People should know how other creatures are treated in “big business farming”. Gone are the days where we raise our own food and can control how it is treated.

And I am glad it gets people angry, it f*cking damn well should.

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[sna]

Hunterg, should we post some abortion videos too? Y’know…just to keep people informed?

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[HunterG]

sna – actually, yes. So many people close their eyes and ignore what is really happening.

Should people ignore what is really happening? Or is what you would really like to be what is happening work better for you?

I could only hope as an adult, you could have the intelligence to realize that what happens in the “real world” (like what is going on everyday all the time, no matter how you try to explain it to yourself) isn’t actually what happens in the real world, no matter how you try to mask it.

I don’t think I will ever understand why people have such a disdain for truth.

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[JoB]

HunterG…

I really have to ask where this notion that people are “ignoring what is happening” and therefore have to have it shoved under their noses every time they turn around came from?

Just because something has shock value does not mean the content is shocking.

Dufus’s video might be too graphic for even dufus to watch…

which btw should have been an indication that posting it was less than tasteful…

but the content of that video has been in the news off and on now for a decade and the practices detailed in it are already well on their way to change.

The same holds true for the abortion videos.

Does anyone actually think that those abortion videos educate?

They are produced for shock value and to induce shame.

The intent is to induce enough shame to coerce others into following the strictures of the producers own personal value system.

Shoving your personal views in my face doesn’t increase the validity… or lack therof… of the argument.

In my view it’s little more than crass exploitation.

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[sun*e]

JoB for the win!

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[JoB]

Sun-e…

If winning means that i expressed my point well..

thanks.

if winning means that i had the last word and put and end to the conversation.. then that pains me.

i do have strong opinions and i hope that i express them well…

but it is never my intention to be the last word on any subject.

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[sun*e]

JoB – Yes, you win because you expressed your point well and I totally agree with many of your points… so keep ’em coming.

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[dufus]

Ode to the vegetables — you can sing this post to the tune of yankee doodle dandy if you like…

Once again…I know I said this in my post, but here it is again…

Nutritional carnitine deficiencies have not been identified in healthy people without metabolic disorders. Your post, JoB, talks about people WITH illnesses needing to pay attention to carnitine issues…and your post even references a list of illnesses where carnitine can help. I would agree, if a person has an underlying illness, and that illness would be helped by carnitine, then go for the supplement. So there you have it, you are talking about illnesses, ill people, I am talking about healthy people. If people have an illness, then yes, they should take a supplement… most vegans and vegetarians do not get an illness from lack of carnitine, so it is a non-issue.

The red-herring comment was supposed to be a joke. However, I do believe an obscure carnitine deficiency reference, by you, is indeed a red herring which you bring up to deflect from the point of the rant: how animals are treated in slaughter times. I do not get how your points talk at all to how animals are often cruelly treated during their farming and processing for our consumption. In fact I would say you are pandering to the supplement industry. They of course want to say carnitine is lacking in your diet, so you will buy it. It seems you are buying into and propagating their fear mongering to people who have illness. Many ill people are grasping at anything that might make them well. Once again, this has NOTHING to do with how animals are killed or mistreated during the farming and processing of meat.

And JoB, do you or don’t you believe animals should be farmed and “processed” in humane ways?

Some say that the video is just shock value material…does it not show real ways in which animals are slaughtered and farmed?

JoB, are you Ok with those tactics? Because you do very little to show respect for those animals by your posting about carnitine on this particular rant thread. I think it is much worse than crass that people do not stand up for the humane treatment of all animals.

And btw, this rant has nothing to do with abortion — so it is also a red herring for someone to bring that topic into the mix. If you have a rant about abortion videos, start your own rant, gosh darn it. Or better yet, go actually do something about it yourself. Talk is cheap, and actually, it is free on this forum, so I am taking full advantage. Hmmm… actually it is not free because I am taking up billable time writing this… but I digress. And I’m having you on.

I am not invested in having the last word or in being right. My many meaningful friendships have taught me a lot about being OK with being wrong and admitting it. I am usually open to another person’s point of view. I also have no issue with being put in my place. I give you, JoB, I am not a carnitine expert, nor do I study the body’s intricate metabolic processes. I read and study and try to make sense of the world around me and be a good person.

What I do have issue with is inhumane meat processing methods and animal cruelty for no good reason. And people who are OK with the way things are and who’d rather bury their heads in the sand than just admit it is currently sickening that we still allow these types of practices to continue.

“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Edmund Burke)

“The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.” –

— Albert Einstein

Thanks to you all for responding to the rant of this flawed human! It is most satisfying to blah blah blah and get it all out. And in my final commentary… I’m sure some of you will have something to say about my poor cat getting a terrible illness from this..it just occurred to me that I now choose to move on to feeding my cats veggie booty instead of the chicken bits and other animal parts they are currently consuming. Or let them eat all the birds outside as nature dictates. How’s that for new fodder? Did I just chum the waters?

And now, I bid you all adieu and bon appétit.

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[JoB]

Dufus…

your rant now bores me.

and your accusations annoy me.

After going around the block with the benefits of meat free diet you accuse me of distracting from your original post because i told you that your blanket statements were wrong?

It is obvious to me that you don’t understand the genesis of metabolic disorders… if you did you wouldn’t make such patently absurd statements about what constitutes health…

carnatine happened to be the easiest nutrient to outline.. but it is just one of many nutrients that are delivered to the human body more effectively by animal products than by non-animal products… which btw include commercial supplements.

can you survive without consuming animal products?

Sure .. if you work at it really really hard and are lucky enough to not be genetically susceptible to a whole host of chronic health conditions…

which .. on a side note… you would be unlikely to be aware of before starting your diet if they had previously been managed by the nutritional support of meat products…

If not.. you’ll be supplementing your diet with something.

Good luck with that…

but please be aware that a meat free or animal product free diet isn’t ideal for everyone.

“In fact I would say you are pandering to the supplement industry. They of course want to say carnitine is lacking in your diet, so you will buy it. It seems you are buying into and propagating their fear mongering to people who have illness. Many ill people are grasping at anything that might make them well. “

Now that is an out and out insult…

to a woman who has lived with the more severe stages of chronic illness her entire adult life and who has helped literally thousands of patients with similar conditions manage their illness without ever selling a single product or making a single penny.

Now, i will admit you couldn’t know that…. but i didn’t identify myself as a doctor… so …

Why do you think i know so much about metabolic disorders?

Either you are not using your head

or you are not being a nice person.

your choice.

I am truly at a loss as to how you could have any difficulty understanding my thoughts on the video you posted

or on my stated preference for humanely raised meat…

however… I am glad to make my thoughts perfectly clear.

In the first place.. that video is so violent and provocative that you admit that you couldn’t watch the whole thing…

yet you thought it was not only appropriate but mandatory for us to see?

Give me a break. The only reason you could have for posting a video too sensational for you to watch is shock value.

the video has shock value..

but as i already stated.. the subject is not shocking.

Not only has this subject already been well documented..

the practices in that video are rapidly becoming the exception..

not the norm in slaughterhouses…

and it doesn’t take a whole lot of research to confirm that trend.

I do eat meat.

If i have the option, I choose meat that comes from a farm where animals are humanely raised and humanely slaughtered.

I have made that choice whenever possible for a very very long time… 50 years give or take a couple.

In fact… I have eaten meat that was humanely raised and killed for most of my 62 years…

In my childhood we lived near the family farm and family homestead and i am happy to report that i was taught how to humanely raise, efficiently kill and butcher my own meat. I was also taught how to hunt wild game.

The first time i saw those cellophane packages in the supermarket labeled meat I was 13 years old and they confused me so much that i left the supermarket and bought the family meat at the local butcher where i could identify what i was buying.

He got his meat whole from a local farm..

I still prefer to buy my meat from butchers who can source every piece of meat they sell.

In my wild youth.. young adulthood… i lived and worked on a communal farm.. raising and producing everything we ate.

I still grow a portion of everything we eat.

My approach to food has been pretty darn hands on… and i can tell you that i am not alone. A surprising number of people who post or simply read here in the forum have similar experiences.

In case you hadn’t noticed, West Seattle supports a year round farmer’s market… where they sell.. among other things… humanely raised and slaughtered meat products.

In addition we support a local fish store that promotes sustainable harvest and a butcher that does the same.

The very idea that this community needs to be shown a video too shocking for you to watch all the way through to educate themselves about meat processing loses credibility in light of the evidence to the contrary.

If you want to make a plea for humanely raised and slaughtered meat then I am with you all the way.

If you want to point out the economic benefits of purchasing humanely raised and slaughtered local meat I am with you all the way.

If you want to point out the nutritional value of humanely raised and slaughtered local organic meat I am with you all the way.

But this video?

and a blanket condemnation of eating meat?

you are so on your own for that.

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