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May 9, 2008 at 10:55 pm #623068
JoBParticipantJT…
it went blank for me to…
so this is a link to the site…
the 2nd ammendment stuff is in a link in the top left corner..
May 9, 2008 at 11:04 pm #623069
JoBParticipantNew Resident…
the question of whether the 2nd amendment actually gives citizens the right to bear arms is currently being heard by the supreme court… you can check wikipedia for the history…
since this is the most conservative court we have had in my adult lifetime… if any court will rule that the 2nd amendment guarantees that right.. this one will.
I am skeptical that it will.
We will see.
It is not a democratic stance that people shouldn’t own guns.
Gun control does not mean you can’t own guns.
gun control means that gun ownership requires licenses… and that not all guns are available for all licenses… in other words, it restricts the access to automatic weapons.
pretty reasonable when you look at it that way…
May 9, 2008 at 11:10 pm #623070
JoBParticipantNew resident…
it is depressing to be poor or disabled in our society… and doubly depressing to be both.
as for what we can do…
the thing we can do immediately is have compassion for those less fortunate.
We can give to individuals we know need help.
We can give to organizations that help those who need help.
We can demand reform in the programs that service those who are marginalized.
we can demand “in house” care for the mentally ill… something along the assisted living model that we have developed for the elderly.
We can join John Edward’s new bipartisan cause.. something about cutting poverty in half in ten years:)
that seems like a good goal to me.
May 9, 2008 at 11:18 pm #623071
AnonymousInactiveDuring a disability review, you are often evaluated by an independent doctor of their choosing. The forms you fill out are extremely lengthly and each word you put in writing has to be proved. You must document every minute of your day, down to how long you are able to speak on the phone. It is usually a 4-6 step process, each of which takes months to years, and in the end, you often have to present your case to a judge. Remember, as JoB said, you have to prove you can not perform ANY job, not just the job you want.
You are reviewed frequently, and have to re-prove at each step along the way. If people are faking it, some one in the system is crooked and helping them. By the way, once you qualify for this benefit, you are owned by the government. They have the right to interview your family, friends and neighbors. God forbid your neighbors hate you. They also have the right to review all of your finances and any property besides your home, including a vehicle. You literally have no secrets/privacy. As JoB said, it is not for the weak at heart.
May 9, 2008 at 11:19 pm #623072
beachdrivegirlParticipantBack to the title of this thread and the currennt election. I think McCains chances of winning the election this fall got even slimmer within the past few weeks. if Obama gets the nomincation (which I believe he will..sorry JoB) then McCain has to be able to pull Hillary’s backing of women. And quite frankly with his stances on womens rights and issues once Obama has time to wear him down McCain will not be able to pull those women voters.
May 9, 2008 at 11:29 pm #623073
JoBParticipantbeachdrivegirl…
i have to toddle off to bed.. but please post the info on McCains’s latest “gift” to women….
i am sure everyone will want to know how much he worries about us…
May 10, 2008 at 3:41 am #623074
LBGMemberwow NewRes…you have had your hands full on this thread. Kudos to you.
Some people on this blog tend to live in a pre-9/11 world. I would love to see JenV suggest to the families of the victims that were jumping out of a twin tower building while they were on fire that terrorism is an “emotion”. An absolutely ridiculous statement.
Just as ridiculous is JenV’s assertion that if anyone said something negative about the government, they would be hauled away and labeled as an enemy combatant. If that were the case, there wouldn’t be any topics of discussion because most on this board would be in a jail somewhere being held against their will.
I’m quite certain that JoB will come back at me with a story of a friend, family member or someone else close to her that has been carted away and is now locked up in Gauntanamo for uttering treasonous remarks.
And speaking of JoB…please tell me how you are in any way conservative? I would love for you to outline this democratic conservative “small legacy” you intend to leave.
Don’t sell yourself short NewRes…I think it was admirable to outline your beliefs and how they correspond with conservative
ideals and then to defend those beliefs against multiple liberal posters.
Certain comments on this thread lead one to believe that some think the government should be there to take care of people, a nanny state if you will. Others, or other(New Res), believes that people should have personal responsibility and work within the free market system to provide for themselves.
The assumption by some in this thread is that they SHOULD be taxed because if they are not, certain government programs would be cut, therefore endangering all those fine people out there that just haven’t been so “lucky” in life. Why do people believe that the government can better manage their money than they can?
There is huge waste and abuse in the system. Why not keep more of your hard earned money by being taxed less then turn around and use that money for what YOU deem worthy? Then at least you know where your money is going. That is a conservative ideal.
This is not a socialist state, although with the current names on the ballot, we may be getting closer to that.
How is it the government’s responsibility to take care of the people that are defaulting on their home loans as was stated by BDG? Did these people not enter into these contracts willingly? Did they not overspend their means by getting into an interest only option arm with no real plan on how they were going to pay their mortgage once the interest rate reset? Where does personal responsibility come in? Are people so elitist that they will contend that these poor people just don’t understand and were hoodwinked. Please government, SAVE US! Is that in the constitution that the people on this board want back.
BDG also mentioned socialized healthcare….I think one can just look at Canada and Europe to see how well that has worked. Even the Massachusetts experiment was a huge flop with premiums going thru the roof. The problem with health care is that we do not have a true free market system as things stand today. The insurance companies control the networks and in turn control the pricing, thus there are no true free market forces at work. Do away with the networks and go to direct to provider pay system. This will create competition and in turn will drive down costs.
Question on the gun control discussion…what is the plan for having criminals register their weapons? Is there a plan in place? The problem with gun control is that the people that are committing violent crimes are the people that are getting their weapons in ways other than legal channels. Gun control laws do nothing to curb that.
And finally, last I checked, this was still the land of opportunity…for every sad story on here about someone who wasn’t given the same opportunities as someone else, there are just as many stories about people that came to this country(legally) with nothing, and not only survived but thrived.
May 10, 2008 at 4:40 am #623075
JoBParticipantLBG…
i am way too out of it tonight to do justice to more than one part of your long post… maybe tomorow…
but here goes the easy part…
“Question on the gun control discussion…what is the plan for having criminals register their weapons? Is there a plan in place? The problem with gun control is that the people that are committing violent crimes are the people that are getting their weapons in ways other than legal channels. Gun control laws do nothing to curb that.”
This doens’t happen to be true for the Virginia Tech shooting for sure.. and i think for the Chicago one after as well…
and tomorrow i will be glad to answer the conservative question…
but no.. i have no relatives in Guantanemo…
i do think it pretty low of you to be so sarcastic of those i do have who have been … or nearly been.. the victims of gun related violence though.
i told you that my cousins weren’t nearly as lucky as i. Although this one was the result of her big heart… she had taken the kid in as one of her own.
but who would have expected a grown daughter going for her PhD in engineering at one of the top engineering schools in the nation.. with an active and visible ROTC program… to have had to bury friends due to gun violence on her own campus.
I sure didn’t.
and i didn’t even bother to mention my brother who goes to work every day to try to stop the violence… in a safety vest that won’t stop the armor piercing bullets that are now on the streets of Portland…
or the people unlucky enough to be living in houses next to violence when it erupts.. or those driving down the hiway when a stray bullet hits.. or….
it’s easy to be sarcastic and dismiss other people’s concerns when you think this all has nothing to do with you… not so easy when it turns out it does.
May 10, 2008 at 5:59 am #623076
AnonymousInactiveSorry, JoB, but LBG laid it out perfectly. Thank you thank you thank you, LBG, for saying what I was unable to put into words!!!!
Sarcastic? Not so much as pointing out the obvious.
What I don’t understand is this: If you want to help the less fortunate (the ones who never got the “chance”), do it! I like to do it, I love to do it. Was I not a major part of the fund raising group for PSL&K? I did that because I *wanted* to. It was wonderful!
But don’t take my hard earned money and spend it how you want to. That is what a tax is, do you realize that? And I gotta tell you, even you Democrats aren’t gonna like some of the places your taxes go. If I want to give my money to a cause or program, I want to make that decision. Don’t take my money and make it for me.
And if you don’t mind the government doing that, you should consider living in Cuba or China!
May 10, 2008 at 6:02 am #623077
AnonymousInactiveJoB – Try not to take too much offense, but can’t you see that almost every issue that is brought up, you have a first-hand, personal connection or account of it?
It’s just funny and a little hard, I think, for some to not poke a little fun at that fact.
May 10, 2008 at 6:20 am #623078
LBGMemberJoB….how is gun control the easy one?
A 1987 Washington DC ban on handgun sales led to the tripling of the murder rate by the early 90’s…handguns were used to commit most of those violent crimes.
Chicago instituted a handgun registration in 1968 and murders with handguns increased. In 1982, Chicago imposed a ban in the same vein of the DC ban and handgun related murders doubled over the next decade.
Even though California has instituted a ban on assault weapons and instituted a waiting period for handguns, rifles and shotguns since 1975, the murder rate in California has averaged around 32% higher than the rest of the country.
etc. etc. So again, my question. How do you get the guns out of the hands of the violent criminals that are routinely getting their guns by illegal means? The people you are restricting with gun laws are the law abiding citizens that would use a gun to protect themselves or their families. I believe it is a slippery slope when you start imposing government regulations on a citizen’s right to bear arms.
As far as your low blow comment…”i do think it pretty low of you to be so sarcastic of those i do have who have been … or nearly been.. the victims of gun related violence though.”
That’s not what I said or inferred. I was referring to your MO across the threads of using personal stories as evidence to support your point of view. That is fine if you want to do that but when someone calls you on it( tongue & cheek I might add) don’t twist it to garner emotional support from other posters.
And finally, your last comment…” it’s easy to be sarcastic and dismiss other people’s concerns when you think this all has nothing to do with you… not so easy when it turns out it does.”
I am not dismissing your concerns, I just don’t agree with your point of view. I wasn’t being sarcastic, I was being very real and straight forward. Last but not least, you have no idea what does and doesn’t have to do with me…you don’t even know what I have been through in life. I just have a view that seems to be diametrically opposed to the way you choose to handle situations and concerns in your life.
May 10, 2008 at 7:01 am #623079
AnonymousInactiveMy question to anyone…what do you think taxes should go for (if anything) and how much taxes is fair? Why I ask, is the comment keeps getting made, why do you trust the government with your money, and shouldn’t we be able to decide what our money goes to? I don’t trust the government with money and I do wish I had more say in what programs get supported.
The thing is, we all have different ideas of what programs make sense and are important. Who gets to decide? Is it by vote/consensus, or do you think everything should be privatized? Education, infrastructure, emergency services?
I don’t care for all the religious overtones of some of Bush ideas and programs. I don’t want to support that. Someone else doesn’t want money to go to the arts, but I think art defines our culture and should be promoted. These are not life or death issues (on purpose), just examples.
Are you OK with state taxes where issues get decided on a local level according to what the needs are? I’m just wondering what you feel the answer is. Not to argue and say you’re wrong, just to open dialog and understand.
May 10, 2008 at 7:04 am #623080
AnonymousInactiveLBG, welcome to the the discussion.
May 10, 2008 at 1:16 pm #623081
KayleighMemberWhy is it okay for Republicans to use personal biography as political philosophy (“I’m successful and wealthy, why aren’t YOU?”), but when a progressive offers a very personal story that has shaped her political view, suddenly personal stories are out of bounds?
A Republican has an experience with what they see as “white discrimination”, and they extrapolate an entire wealth of research and philosophy from it, and somehow that’s okay. (for example)
The plural of anecdote is not data for either side of the aisle. But the problem is that progressives often point out the very real harm that comes from Republican programs and ideas (like getting shot randomly or killed in a war), and Republicans don’t want to hear about that.
May 10, 2008 at 2:58 pm #623082
JoBParticipantLBG..
this is from the talk portion of Wikipedia’s posting on conservatism.. and it says something i would struggle to say very well…
“the word’s “liberal” and “conservative” as they are bandied about in the current political debate are meaningless or, rather, just mean “my side” and “your side”. On the other hand, if you read books written before, say, 1960, or serious scholarly books, you discover that the meaning of the words is much closer to the dictionary meaning. Liberals favor freedom, conservatives favor the status quo or the status quo ante.
The ideas that you have picked up, that liberals favor big government and conservatives favor small government, go back to the time when FDR was president. The class structure at that time was as strong as it has ever been in America. Both New York City and the state of California had police lines that only upper class people were allowed to cross. FDR was called, explicitly, “a traitor to his class”. The wealth was concentrated in the hands of the few, who conspired to fix wages and prices, to bust unions and to use government power to restrict the rights of workers, people of color, and women. People in America were starving, living in “shanty towns”, wandering from place to place looking for work. It was in this context that the government, under FDR, began to offer very limited help to ordinary Americans. He was called every dirty name in the book, including “Jew” and “communist”.
It was never a question of “big government” vs. “small government”. It was a question of big government helping the rich vs. big government helping the poor.
The political movement that actually favors small government is the libertarian movement. The Republican party in the United States wooed the libertarians, by promising small government, and by portraying the Democrats as in favor of big government. In fact, the federal government has grown in power under both parties, so that no American president in my lifetime has ever paid more than lip service to “small government” conservatism.
And political propaganda has done its best to destroy the meaning of words, in order to increase the power of government.”
It seems to me that the current batch of Republicans aren’t so worried about their tax dollars being spent.. they just want them spent to enrich the wealthy… and to protect the interests of the wealthy…
I a fiscally conservative because i don’t believe my government should rush headlong into debt… which is exactly what we have done with this war.
We are endangering our nation by going heavily into debt to countries that have a vested interest in our failure.
I am fiscally conservative because when the government spends my money, i want to get value from it.
it is economically cheaper to fund social welfare programs that actually lead to a healthy and well educated labor force than to fund increased police presence and jails.
i could go on.. but i am sure you will do is sputter and shout stuff and nonsense as you already have… because conservatism to you really just means neo-con.
No true conservative would ever choose to fund this war with debt.. and to go on funding it indefinitely with debt…
no true conservative could defend that under any circumstances.
May 10, 2008 at 3:05 pm #623083
JoBParticipantNew Resident…
“JoB – Try not to take too much offense, but can’t you see that almost every issue that is brought up, you have a first-hand, personal connection or account of it?
It’s just funny and a little hard, I think, for some to not poke a little fun at that fact. “
LBG was not poking fun…
“That’s not what I said or inferred. I was referring to your MO across the threads of using personal stories as evidence to support your point of view. That is fine if you want to do that but when someone calls you on it( tongue & cheek I might add) don’t twist it to garner emotional support from other posters.”
so exactly how was LBG “calling me on it”?
Did LBG disbelieve my stories.. thinking i make something up for every occasion? Or did LBG simply want to negate personal experience?
I could link to my daughter’s photo/bio at Virginia Tech… I could link to the news articles in the Oregonian of my cousin’s shooting and follow the pedigree back to prove she was in fact my biological relative.
I could do that for nearly every personal experience i relate… some things just aren’t documented…
but i won’t. That would be a gross violation of other people’s privacy…
this isn’t about the veracity of my personal experience.. “calling me me on it” is calling me on the validity of using personal experience in human discourse…
Are you so eager for any kind of support that you will have the arguments of personal experience negated?
Do you honestly believe the impersonal is more relevant than the personal?
I will always speak from personal experience when possible… i choose to do so…. because it is the essence of communication between women… to reduce theory to the personal so that it can be understood as something that actually matters to you.
I have lived long enough to have earned the right to speak as a woman and i refuse to be bullied or shamed into the concept that people don’t matter.. only ideas do…
As a woman.. you might want to think a bit about whether you think experience matters… and whether the personal is less important than the impersonal…
May 10, 2008 at 3:19 pm #623084
KayleighMemberLBG, I just have to comment on the ridiculousness of having health care as part of the free market.
Health care is not a commodity people can choose to purchase or not; we all need health care. Some of us need it more than others, and some of us need a great deal more resources than others. The cost of this care is expensive because it *is* expensive and because insurers add their profits onto the costs—forcing doctors and hospitals to either “write off” uncovered costs or pass them onto the uninsured or even the covered patient.
There are several labs in Seattle where you can get an MRI or a CT scan, right? Having 5 more of those labs is not going to drive down the cost of producing the machine, training the techs, having the doctors review tests, paying the office managers, giving the insurer their cut, etc.
Canada and England have great, if imperfect, health care systems. As a wealthy and powerful nation (at least, we were before the neo-cons), America should not let people suffer or die because their health insurer will not pay for treatment, because they have no insurance, or because the Republicans want to preserve the profits of the biotech and insurance companies.
May 10, 2008 at 3:31 pm #623085
JoBParticipantLBG..
re gun control…
i notice you didn’t bother to refute that the automatic weapons used at Virgina Tech and Chicago were legally purchased…
instead you threw statistics and quoted various studies to refute reality…
I am not going to go there.. tho i am quite sure a few minutes time with a search engine could produce a document that would poke holes in your careful constructs…
in fact.. i believe i have already linked to the page that would probably do it… in the discussion of the 2nd Amendment…
With this migraine.. it is all i can do to think. i am not going to pander to this…
so we might as well get the other argument out of the way.. the one that says i post only with opinions…
i know. you haven’t made that one yet.. but it’s in line with the other so we might as well go there too…
that is called writing.
You research… you think.. you write.
it’s a fairly time intensive process and you have to actually read and digest both sides of an argument to do it well…
but i find it a stimulating exercise.. and don’t think i will be giving it up any time soon.. tho i have chosen to add more links to other writers here to reach a larger audience.
As for personal experience catering to emotionalism…
Yes, it does. It relates all those theories .. and studies.. and statistics… to actual human experience.. the end product of those policies…
I can see why you might think that panders… but i think it is the true test of policies… and therefore has great relevance…
I choose to speak in parables… they speak to human experience better than any other method i know…
May 10, 2008 at 3:52 pm #623086
JoBParticipantKayleigh…
again.. i have to applaud your reasoning.
i would add …the unacknowledged cost of medicine is the industry that has grown to manage insurance programs.. creating several more profit centers in medicine which are doing quite well…
if the only profit centers we supported were actual medical care and primary insurance.. medical care would be a lot cheaper.
and… a minor detail that should be far more important to most people.. we would get better medical care.
Our health stats are not among the best in the world… For all the noise that people make about “socialized medicine”.. their outcome measures far surpass ours.
and for those who think those outcome measures are tweaked to support one style of medical care over another… the outcome measure they use is survival…
yup… good old life and death.
we pay more here and die more from the same causes…
that’s what i call a bad deal.
May 10, 2008 at 6:24 pm #623087
AnonymousInactiveJoB – I have never told you that I thought you should do something, or think about something a little longer.
Therefore, I will not tolerate it from you. You may be wiser in experience lived, years lived, but I’m no dummy. I’ve actually lived a lot. Because I don’t share every thread of personal information on this forum doesn’t make it not so. Also, just because I don’t have the same views and opinions as you, doesn’t make me less intelligent than you.
Why do you feel that it is okay to tell me how to raise my daughter, tell me what I do and do not know about the constitution and you tell me, as a woman, what I need to think about?
Is it because I am a woman and *not* on the band wagon of victims crying for the government to give us more and more because we are minorities? Is that what bothers you?
I have a mind of my own and I very much enjoy using it.
May 10, 2008 at 9:06 pm #623088
beachdrivegirlParticipantLBG, I think kayleigh put it perfectly about the healthcare system so I am not going to even address that and it is obvious that you know noone that lives abroad nor have talked to anyone that has lived in a European country. Funny thing is my brother does live abroad and healthcare is one of the main concerns if he choses ot come back to the US (he has lived abroad for over seven years and is in his thirties) so has experienced both systems quite well and he laughs at what dumb a**’s the US are for not having a better healthcare system.
I am not asking for the government to just wash away peoples debt that entered into home loans willingly i am aasking them to regulate the mortgage and credit card industry. News Flash for you but having people claim bankruptcy and defualt on there loans does not only hurt their credit but hurts the enitre economy and personally i dont really want to see our economy go to S**T. So yes i do believe there shoudl be some sort of plan to regualte the mortgage industry. And I would rather be called elite any day than have the irrogant thoughts that you have.
May 10, 2008 at 11:20 pm #623089
JoBParticipantNewResident…
i wasn’t implying you were stupid..
i was suggesting that as a woman, you might want to look at whether or not you really want to be part of making fun of anyone for using their personal stories to validate a point.
that conversation has absolutely nothing to do with being democratic or republican.
It has to do with whether or not to value experience.. your own as well as that of others…
and i suggest you evaluate that as a woman because women tend to tell their stories.. and the stories of those they know… as validation for their ideas..
i thought you might not want to be part of saying that’s an inferior way of communicating… since you have been known to tell a story or two yourself.
but.. that’s always your choice…
and..
of course i have more stories than most.
I started life under very poor circumstances and have worked hard to successfully overcome them.
I was lucky enough to be in the right place at very interesting times… and i took advantage of every opportunity i got.
I became ill enough to have plenty of time to think about my experiences at a very young age.
I am older than most of the posters on this blog… which simply has given me more time to generate experiences… and to learn from them…
And last.. but certainly not least… I am a writer and have spent a lifetime paying attention to personal stories…
That doesn’t make my stories any more important or valid than anyone else’s…
but it sure has earned me a right to a place at the table to tell them.
And the right to tell anyone who thinks experience doesn’t have any validity to think again.
May 11, 2008 at 12:46 am #623090
AnonymousInactiveI never questioned the validity of your stories, Job, I simply agreed with the person who pointed out that you have a personal account of almost every topic that is brought to this forum. That’s fine, but that doesn’t make you automatically wiser than the rest of us because you choose to share those stories.
I have many more stories that I could share but never, in a million years, would. And these are stories that I could absolutely use to substantiate myself as a “victim”. I’m sure most people on this forum have stories such as these.
The problem I have is that, because you do choose to share your stories and personal accounts, I think you feel like something of an authority figure when we are discussing certain things.
You can challenge my views and my opinions, I enjoy it, but you cannot imply that yours is the only voice that carries any weight. You cannot condescend to others who hold opposite viewpoints from those you hold. That, in my eyes, is disrespectful and will cost you some validity on this forum.
I respect you as a woman, a writer and a Democrat. I do not believe in the same things you do, or see the world the same as you, but I respect where you are coming from.
Implying that someone should think as you do, simply because they are a woman or a mother, is elitist. I know that you don’t like that word, so why would you act in that way?
May 11, 2008 at 1:47 am #623091
AnonymousInactiveAlso, JoB, as a woman, you might want to think about not always looking to the government to make things easier for you. Because, let’s face it, the more the government bends over backwards to find equality for every single woman in this country (because that is what you would like), we are no longer equal. That goes with every single minority in this country.
It gets to a point where it’s not about equality, but about making allowances simply because of your race, gender or age. Would you call that equality?
No thanks. I will persevere and find equality through hard work of my own doing, without assistance. That is when I will know that I am truly equal.
May 11, 2008 at 2:44 am #623092
LBGMemberOkay…here we go…in reverse order.
POST 146. Are you kidding me? “Kayleigh put it perfectly”? The only thing that Kayleigh put out there is a farce. If Europe and Canada have far superior healthcare systems than the U.S., why do people keep dying while they are waiting to be treated? Why are people coming to our northern states for care because even though they have to pay it is a far better solution than dying? Why has the Canadian prime minister acknowledged that their system is on the brink of collapse? why are their black market clinics popping up all over Canada and England taking cash for care? Why is it that America should come up with more money for another behemoth socialized system that will create even more of a welfare state?
In direct contrast to your suggestion, I have actually talked to many people in these countries regarding this very issue. I haven’t talked to your brother who I’m quite sure is an expert on the subject. As far as I am concerned, he can continue to laugh at the US from across the pond and indulge in his fanciful notions that somehow socialized medicine is the utopian answer to everybody’s health care needs. While were at it, maybe he can introduce us to the magical healthcare fairy that pays for everybody being on the dole.
Lastly, here is an idea on how to regulate the mortgage and credit card industry. If you can’t afford a mortgage, don’t get one. If you can’t make payments on a credit card, don’t get any. If enough people choose not to do this guess what happens? The cost of a mortgage would go down and credit card rates would go down allowing more people to jump in. Look what is happening to the housing market. Prices are going down because more houses are on the market. Isn’t it amazing how that works?
Being called ignorant, at least I think that is what you meant by “irrogant”, by you on political issues is actually a compliment to me
POST 145. What’s up NewRes?
POST 144 & 142. Again…great reasoning on Kayleigh’s part? How is it ridiculous to allow free market to work in the health care system? People used to do it all the time. It was a barter system. The problem is the insurance companies have come in and wrecked the system by controlling the pricing of the networks and inflating premium prices. Do you realize that actual medical inflation is around 4% whereas companies are being given anywhere from 10-50% premium increases every year? Health care can absolutely be a commodity. If there were 5 labs in a given are and they were actually competing for your dollars not on pre-set pricing by networks, it would create competition for your services. this would drive costs down and the quality of care up. Is this so difficult to understand? As I hope you can tell, I am not advocating for our current healthcare system. I do believe it would be disastrous to move towards a socialized health care system when what we should really be doing is going in the complete opposite direction.
POST 143. Thank you for not “pandering” to me on gun control. How narcissistic are you? I didn’t respond to the VT shooter because under ANY current gun regulations, the psycho would have been able to get a gun anyways. The problem, and I stated this before, is that once you start regulating citizens right’s to bear arms, where does it end? Does it end when there is a gun “no tolerance” policy in this country? At that point, the only people that will have the guns in this country are the thugs and criminals. It’s funny how you wikipedia “liberal” to mean freedom but then choose to ignore certain freedoms that do not fall within the boundaries of what YOU deem to be right or just.
POST 143 & 139. I don’t care if you use your personal stories to back up your point of view, I even said that in post 136. I even believe all your stories are true. I also have no doubt that these stories have shaped your point of view. The problem, and this is my opinion, is that you use these stories to argue your point. If someone really starts to take a position that is opposite of yours, you tend to bring out a personal story, and when someone continues to debate on the same point, they are somehow not being sensitive to what happened in your life. Fantastic political ploy. That is why in a proper debate, one of the first rules of thumb is to not use personal stories. I know that this is not a “proper debate” but it is a debate of sorts and I believe that the relevance of that rule would still apply. I prefer to make my point on the validity of the arguments that support an issue, you prefer to make your point on the validity of emotions that support an issue.
POST 140 “the words that I have picked up”…yeah, I’ve heard these words around and am just regurgitating what has been told to me like I am a young, naive school boy. Thanks teacher JoB! Can I go to recess now? Give me a break!
Oh, and thank you benevolent FDR for our wondrous welfare state! The very fact that you say that you are “fiscally conservative because when the government spends YOUR money, you want to get value for it” is an oxymoron. Keep your money and spend it how you want. Pay less taxes and put together a potluck, as you earlier suggested that you do, every day of the week for those that go hungry.
By the way, I don’t ..”sputter and shout stuff and go on about nonsense”. I guess if a view isn’t fully in step with yours, you deem it to be nonsense. Another narcissistic statement on your behalf.
Here’s the rub…I don’t consider the current administration to be fiscally conservative. I didn’t consider the Republican controlled congress to be fiscally conservative either. They are all big spenders. I am having a hard time voting for McCain in this election. I believe the Republican party needs to get rid of the current leadership and get back to true conservative ideals. I believe this is the only way for them to be taken seriously by the American people once again. I do have my philosophies in life and have to vote for the person that is closest to those philosophies. the thing is, if Obama does win and I think he probably will, people might actually see what it is like to live in a country that is run by true liberals. Maybe that will create a backlash of voting in TRUE conservatives like they have done in Italy, England, France and Germany.
Sorry for the dissertation, there were a lot of posters and falsehoods in regards to me that I had to address.
I realize there are a few posts after this one that I did not address specifically, but I believe that the content that pertained to me has been answered in my post.
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