Home › Forums › Open Discussion › NiNICKELSVILLE IS OUT OF WATER!
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October 26, 2011 at 5:14 am #738160
Betty TMemberGood luck with that.
Back to Wood Chips—If you still need them catch pennidogg under “Need Woodchips?” He has some but no way to haul them. I’ve been trying to connect him with someone for several days.
October 26, 2011 at 5:46 am #738161
KevinParticipantCity Council Video.
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For those of you who may be interested, here is the link to the 10/25/11 AM City Council meeting.
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http://www.seattlechannel.org/videos/video.asp?ID=2061127
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The first 15-20 minutes feature public testimony from Nickelsville residents and others.
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Description of the options for the one time homeless budget begin at 37:00, and mention an estimated cost of $38K for infrastructure improvements at Nickelsville (sewer and water)
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Council member Nick Licata specifically addressed Nickelsville beginning at 62:00 and received a large round of applause at approximately 63:00.
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The entire meeting runs 106 minutes.
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If your time is limited, I suggest the following points are worth a listen:
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00:00-20:00 – public comments
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37:00 for several minutes (Nickelsville option outlined, among other options)
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62:00 for Mr. Licata’s comments
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October 26, 2011 at 6:25 am #738162
JoBParticipantJamjets
You did an incredible job this summer but you are right.
It is long past time to pressure the city for a more sustainable temporary solutions
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October 27, 2011 at 5:09 am #738163
Betty TMemberJoB
Are you available Saturday? I’ve lost my driver for Saturday’s lunch. Daughter will be busy with girls for Trick-or-Treat at the junction. I asked a neighbor but he wants nothing to do with it. Thinks they shouldn’t be there and its up to the city, not us.
October 27, 2011 at 4:02 pm #738164
JoBParticipantBetty
I’m sorry. Saturday won’t work for me either.
Anyone out there who can help Betty take lunch to nickelsville on Saturday.?
You can connect through me at Joanne at braydon dot org
October 27, 2011 at 4:22 pm #738165
KevinParticipantYes JoB, I could probably help out!
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@Proud Puget Ridger – how about you? It would be nice to finally meet you in person- even if just to agree that it is OK to disagree!
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October 27, 2011 at 7:14 pm #738166
chrismaParticipantFor what it’s worth, I spoke with Greg Jacobsen this morning about the prospect of Nickelsville getting water from the building he owns on the adjacent property.
He told me that at some point in the past, the NV residents had connected up to his outside water without asking his permission, and that he had had to lock up his taps. I was disappointed to hear about this.
While he expressed that he had no problem with Nickelsville being on that site, he said that providing water was a bit of a Pandora’s box for him. There is apparently no way to parcel out the responsibility for the service between his business and NV, so he would be financially responsible for all the water provided, and is unwilling to take the risk of getting stuck with a potentially large bill.
He was perfectly friendly in discussing this with me, and I very much appreciated that he took a few moments to talk with a perfect stranger about it. I can certainly understand his concern and reluctance, given the circumstances.
Anyway, not that anyone showed any interest in this inquiry to begin with, but I think this officially closes the possibility.
So it’s back to pressuring the city to provide a connection, and/or trucking water in.
October 27, 2011 at 8:03 pm #738167
KevinParticipant.
But…. what if West Seattle as a community were able to “GUARANTEE” Greg Jacobsen that THEY would make up any shortfall IF expenses got out of hand?
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Nickelsville makes VERY frugal use of the water that is currently brought into camp.
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The 2010 US census shows about WS Population: 20K folks in West Seattle. Median income of $45K + with about 10% defined as living at a “poverty” level
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http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/Research/Population_Demographics/Overview/default.asp
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I’m sure there is probably about 5 – 10% that are able and willing to offset Mr Jacobsen’s potential loss if anything goes south!
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We have a LOT of resources over here on the peninsula. Can YOU HELP OUT? OR are YOU one of the approximately 10% that is unable to assist even though you would like to?
October 27, 2011 at 8:54 pm #738168
celeste17ParticipantI propose to the next door neighbor that he provides one month of water usage to Nicklesville have the water bill from that time period a year ago and see what the difference is. If it is humungous then say no. If it is within reasonable usage then let Nicklesville have water and pay for it. Either way he wins. If he can provide water he is a hero if he can’t he still comes out good as he offered.
October 27, 2011 at 9:16 pm #738169
kootchmanMemberAs usual someone else will have to lead. There are options aplenty with a little thought. First, thought. Do not all the firehouses have access to water to refill their tankers? Second, there are multiple sources of potable water containers. If we get one in the 500 gallon range or combinations of containers, sufficient to make one or two trips to the firehouse per week to fill we can minimize the logistics which are sporadic’.. I will sign up for a monthly pledge for 1500 gallons of water, paid in advance. Anyone with a garden faucet is a potential source. What is the cost of 1000 gallons?
http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/grd/2660928262.html
Any number of food processors, bakeries, syrup, vinegar containers are available throughout Seattle. A 55 gallon potable water approved with spigot is around $30-40 each. Put em on a cheap flat trailer with a hitch in the parking lot.
October 27, 2011 at 10:48 pm #738170
chrismaParticipant@kootchman: according to SPU, commercial water rate is $4.63 / CCF for the water and $10.28 for the associated sewer charges. A CCF is approx. 748 gallons, so that yields a cost of about $0.02 per gallon (if my math is correct). So, 1,000 gallons is $20.
Who purchases the large container?
Who provides the trailer?
Who hauls it?
500 gallons of water weighs a little over 2 tons, not counting the weight of the container and the weight of the trailer.
October 27, 2011 at 11:05 pm #738171
KevinParticipant@chrisma – I’m glad you asked that question. According to the nice folks at:
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http://www.waterbuffaloinc.com/services_offered.php
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A portable water tank capable of being towed by a pickup truck can be purchased outright at a cost of $1200 – 1500. A reasonable solution until the City of Seattle can quit dragging their feet until March or so of 2012 when they have indicated there MIGHT be a solution in place?
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October 27, 2011 at 11:35 pm #738172
chrismaParticipantI guess I need to be more snarky. I brought all this up in July to crickets.
@Kevin: So my taking the initiative to go talk to Mr. Jacobsen doesn’t count as “helping out”. What about me helping to deliver water to the camp while the Jamjets were away, or the load of food I dropped there this week?
Could I be doing more? Probably. I can tell you that my household income is far less than $45k per year for a family of three, so the help I can provide is not primarily financial.
But, yes, there are plenty of resources here on the peninsula to solve the NV water problem. The question is how to coordinate them.
So how can YOU help with that, Kevin?
- What kind of guarantee did you have in mind to offer to Mr. Jacobsen?
- Do you have a check to give him for that first 1,000 gallons?
- A list of names of community members with their pledge amounts?
I would have loved to have hashed this all out with the interested people here BEFORE I approached him, but I got almost no response. In fact, the only real response I got was a suggestion that I provide Mr. Jacobsen’s contact information to NV staff and let them handle it, which I did. As far as I know, that went nowhere.
After having participated in the water delivery (briefly) I agree with the Jamjets: Citizen delivery of a basic need like water is unsustainable. They need a more reliable solution.
I have no special relationship with Greg Jacobsen. I literally walked into his place of business unannounced and asked to see him, and fortunately found him there and willing to talk to me for a few minutes.
As I said, he was cordial, and seemingly unperturbed about the presence of NV next door. His concerns were with the financial (and perhaps other) liability that would come with helping NV out with water. I don’t know if he’d reconsider, but I certainly wouldn’t approach him again without a detailed plan, and some backup options for his possible objections.
Here’s one possible alternative that incorporates kootchman’s suggestions:
If a large capacity water container could be secured and delivered to the camp, we could approach Mr. Jacobsen with a proposal to by from him a specific quantity of water (say 500 gallons) at a time, at whatever rate he pays. The biggest hitch I see would be coordinating with someone to come over there and turn on the tap, as needed. That could develop a PITA factor pretty quickly.
Another, alternative would be to get some find of water meter device that could be attached to the tap that Mr. Jacobsen might theoretically provide to the camp, and charges could be assessed on the camp’s usage at a specified interval. I stress, that in this scenario, there would have to be a guarantee of payment to Mr. Jacobsen that HE would find acceptable, and I don’t know what the dimensions of that would be.
Well, this wall of text is long enough. I’ll leave it there and would be glad to participate in a larger discussion of solutions.
October 28, 2011 at 12:06 am #738173
KevinParticipantHi chrisma,
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I never once suggested that your talk with Mr. Jacobsen did not count! Actually I find it VERY commendable that YOU took the initiative to speak with him.
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As for NV and water solutions, my wife and I are currently in the same position as you. Neither one of us has worked in over two years due to the economy and health concerns,.
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All I have to offer is that of being an idea guy, and likewise you have assumed the role of idea gal. As one of my friends offered – “a thought provoker.”
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In my job search group which meets in WS, we have a saying – “the ANSWER” is always NO until you ask! Please keep asking :)
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I’m just like you, I DON’T have the resources to deliver a solution, but ideas are FREE! so I submit them for what they are worth! And again, I applaud YOU for stepping up and taking your time to talk with someone! Thank you!
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My sincere apologies if I ever suggested or inferred that you did NOTHING to support the cause.
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And go ahead and count ME too in that 10% that I mentioned in a previous post that are “unable” to assist. My wife and I have cleaned out our pantry on several occasions to make small donations. EVERY can helps!
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October 28, 2011 at 12:33 am #738174
JoBParticipantchrisma
i sometimes think the greatest roadblock to assisting Nickelsville is that those who have become donor volunteers are not coordinating their efforts. unfortunately the current policies at Nickelville don’t make it easy for us to work together on their behalf.
i am currently working to get those policies changed.. but in the meantime i suggest that we get together informally.
i am willing to form an email list where we can trade info for anyone who wants to participate with a pizza get together mid november.
in the meantime, as one of the many water volunteers at nickelville, i agree that we need to keep trading ideas for a temporary solution..
i can be reached at joanneatbraydendotorg
October 28, 2011 at 12:34 am #738175
JoBParticipantOctober 28, 2011 at 12:51 am #738176
KevinParticipantWill do JoB – thanks! Send me an email please.
October 28, 2011 at 1:09 am #738177
chrismaParticipant@kevin: Thank you for your reply. I think I may have misunderstood your post (#33). You directed it at me at the beginning and I thought the capital YOU at the end there was directed at me also.
I’m a bit short on sleep today, and I apologize responding so strongly.
I do appreciate that you jumped in here and hope you’ll continue to be a “thought provoker” in the discussion, wherever that discussion ends up happening.
You’re certainly correct in saying the answer is always NO, until you ask, and that’s exactly why I went to ask Mr. Jacobsen.
I do think it would’ve been better to have thought and talked it through with a few people who are perhaps better informed than I am, before approaching him, but what’s done is done. Perhaps that door is not fully closed, or another solution will yet come to light. Some good ideas are showing up here this week.
Oh, and not that I mind being referred to as an “idea gal”, but I do have boy parts. My username might read better as ChrisMA (the MA being my middle and last initials)
Cheers!
October 28, 2011 at 1:12 am #738178October 28, 2011 at 2:12 am #738179
JoBParticipantOctober 29, 2011 at 3:35 am #738180
celeste17ParticipantI was at Costco today and bought two 25# bags of rice for 10.00 each and several other items for Nicklesville. I am not saying this to tell you I did but to tell you what I felt like was a good buy.
October 29, 2011 at 6:27 am #738181
Betty TMemberI feel that people taking whatever they can when they can may not be an answer but its way better than nobody doing anything. I know most would like to do more, if able. Its plain to see there are a few goodhearted folks out there. There’s the thinkers and the doers and both are important.I happen to be one of those who can’t contribute money. So I collect what items others offer or don’t need and cook with it. Maybe all your discussion will eventually come to a good end. Let’s hope so.
October 29, 2011 at 6:59 am #738182
kootchmanMemberChrisma..I will purchase the containers. There “was” or “is” some $340 “around” that can be used to purchase a trailer kit, or a used utility trailer. It was sorta misplaced. Donations for the pig roast disappeared… I would have used those funds for the trailer. N’Ville will probably have to track it down. The person who took the money is as I understand known, Possibly being held in stewardship? Delivery is going to have to be on a volunteer basis. With a 2″ ball hitch and a known cost for water, pretty much anyone with an outdoor spigot could provide water. At .02 per gallon, at least we know how much to offer an outdoor spigot owner. Home Depot had an 1,800 lb capacity trailer kit for sale last week for around $$320 $$…. the trailer weighed about 400 lbs… any 6 cylinder vehicle should be able to haul it. It may be erratic, but having 5-600 gallons bulk water on hand may smooth over the crisis… I have one vehicle that can pull it. Maybe some others will offer to make 1 or 2 deliveries a week… a sign up roster or something like that.
October 29, 2011 at 7:03 am #738183
kootchmanMemberIf N’ville wants to get exotic, I have a 12 volt water pump from a boat … that can transfer the water from the trailer into the camp..or just use one of the spigots. In nay case… 20 bucks for 1000 gallons seems cheaper than what we are doing now. There are enough handy dandy guys down there to assemble a trailer kit. I have any tools and wrenches they may need.
October 30, 2011 at 3:18 am #738184
munchkin22MemberKootchman: I was told your pig money can be retrieved at the Josephina downtown if you go to what I guess is the Share office. Personally, I think Share should deliver it to you, since you so graciously purchased, delivered and cooked the thing. Not sure if you had been told that but I was told that at NV. May be true, may not be. My hope would be that someone would ask the question at their Sunday mandatory meeting at the camp when their benefactor is present. Just my opinion.
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