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May 4, 2012 at 7:19 am #757159
JanSParticipantIf you don’t want to participate in a day of prayer then don’t. Period. If others want to, fine by me. It’s not up to any of us to decide what should be posted on here or not…nor should we judge those who do or don’t want to participate. It’s just another event…again, “buyer beware”.
There was a great little saying circulating on the interwebs the other day..it said ” Before you judge me, make sure that you’re perfect”. guess that’s how I’m feeling here…it’s not our job to judge anyone..
May 4, 2012 at 3:51 pm #757160
Spring ChickenMemberJanS: Must we always agree with an OP’s viewpoint or be labeled “judgmental” by those who do ?? This forum would become pretty dull.
JoB, I respectfully disagree. Not all traditions believe in prayer. Period.
Many people think an “interfaith prayer” can be carefully worded to be all-inclusive, but that is not accurate. Their false assumption goes like this: Since everybody except atheists believe in some kind of divine being (nope) and prays or worships or communicates with it in some form depending on their culture (nope), then the billion or so agnostics and Buddhists and Taoists worldwide should compromise their 2500+ year tradition and join this quasi-Christian ritual, as long as the organizers mean well? (nope)
May 4, 2012 at 4:12 pm #757161
JanSParticipantSpring Chicken…no we don’t always have to agree with the OP…but we should at least respect them. The OP, whether I agree with them or not, has every right to post an informative post without the rest of us calling them out. There are times when , if I don’t think it’s something I would participate in, I would just not go, and wouldn’t have to make a comment about why I wouldn’t.
May 4, 2012 at 4:36 pm #757162
Spring ChickenMemberI didn’t understand from the OP that this was to be an organized event sponsored by several area churches? Didn’t Day of Prayer used to be ecumenical? “One Nation Under God” never means authentic religious tolerance, but they used to at least invite a token rabbi… did the evangelicals take this over, too?
May 4, 2012 at 4:42 pm #757163
NFiorentiniMemberMaybe some christians will be too busy beating their sons into becoming “real” men to attend.
(If the video of this pastor’s comments or the laughter of the congregation in this article doesn’t turn your stomach, not much will).
May 4, 2012 at 5:19 pm #757164
DBPMemberI just wish people would once-in-a-while check stuff out for themselves before trashing it — especially when checking it out for yourself is so EASY to do.
I admit that I was kind of skeptical about the “National Day of Prayer” too, so I went over there with my Jimmy Olson® reporter kit to investigate.
Disclosure: I was also bored and hungry for some Spuds. And since I hadn’t had a good old-fashioned Alki soaking for a while, I figured: What the hey?
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So anyway, it was a small crowd of about 60 people, and the prayer meeting was officiated by some ten people from half a dozen local (somewhat conservative) churches.
Frankly, I was expecting it to be more political than it actually was. I, too, was expecting someone to say something about abortion, school prayer, or homosexuality.
Well . . . sorry to disappoint, but the closest anyone came to being political was when Principal Tim Lorenz from Shorewood Foursquare School said words to the effect of: “Let’s pray that our children aren’t taught the wrong things in school.”
Oh yeah, and somebody else said: “God, we pray that you will bring our political leaders closer to you.”
I ask you: Was that hate speech?
Was it disrespectful or bullying?
Yes, there were some quotes from the Old Testament. But there was actually much more emphasis on the New Testament, specifically the Sermon on the Mount. Turning the other cheek. Praying for your enemy. That kind of thing.
But not once in the hour I was there listening, did anyone say anything even remotely negative about any specific person or any specific lifestyle.
May 4, 2012 at 5:33 pm #757165
DBPMember
This lady stood there the whole time with her one free hand upstretched and her eyes closed. —Which made it easy for me to hover around her, looking for just the right camera angle.
May 4, 2012 at 5:57 pm #757166
NFiorentiniMember“I went over there with my Jimmy Olson® reporter kit to investigate.”
But you forgot your Fundie-to-Reality translator.
But don’t fret. I can help (and my rates are very affordable)!
“God, we pray that you will bring our political leaders closer to you.”
Translation: “Our leaders are far away from God, especially that Kenyan Muslim Marxist Barack HUSSEIN Obama (wrong God!). And our other leaders are so far away from God that they are allowing gays to marry and women to kill their babies. There are schools teaching that You (God) didn’t create the world in six days, 6,000 years ago. If our leaders were ‘closer to you,’ none of these abominations would be happening.”
“Let’s pray that our children aren’t taught the wrong things in school.”
Translation: “Let’s pray that our children aren’t taught science, non-abstinence based sex education, that homosexuals exist, or that our nation’s founders were advocates of the separation of church and state. While we’re at it, since science/math professions tend to have a disproportionate percentage of Atheists/Agnostics, we need to discourage our youth from pursuing higher education; it’s bad for business.”
“…praying…”
Translation: “A way to look and feel like you are doing something, without the work and effort of actually doing anything. Also, a great way to out-pious the other guy. Tebow!!!1 God loves competition!”
As a former evangelical christian, what you heard is code and the listener is supposed to infer what I typed above, to one degree or another. The code is supposed to appeal to a broader base than just evangelicals, but the take home message is pretty much as I described.
We live in a nation of sin and leaders “closer” to God would mean less sin. Therefore, vote Republican. (And not those fiscally-conservative, socially libertarian RINOs).
Glad I could help!
May 4, 2012 at 6:36 pm #757167
JVMemberAhhh, NF, such tolerance and reason! You don’t sound bitter or angry at all!
You believed that something terrible was going to be said/done, and when it isn’t, you had to make sh!t up about what they REALLY meant!
Sad, angry, little person.
May 4, 2012 at 6:40 pm #757168
NFiorentiniMemberJV-You’re right. I have no tolerance of people who want to control others via their silly superstition and to impose their theocracy on this nation. Am I angry? Yes, but then again, I’m not brainwashed.
May 4, 2012 at 8:21 pm #757169
jamminjMemberMay 4, 2012 at 9:38 pm #757170
WSBKeymasterIf anybody was really interested in what this was about (it was on our events calendar but we had five other must-cover things to get to last night, so this year we didn’t stop by), you would have found it in past WSB news reports – we’ve dropped by every couple years. As DBP notes, generally a pretty tame event.
https://westseattleblog.com/2008/05/day-of-prayer-gathering-tonight-on-alki
May 4, 2012 at 10:55 pm #757171
SmittyParticipantMay 4, 2012 at 11:13 pm #757172
dhgParticipantThe party of tolerance is all about a “yes you can” attitude. Yes, you can marry the one you love, yes you can adopt and you can learn about Darwinist theory.
The party of the intolerant is the one that wants to enshrine discrimination into the Constitution.
The difference is pretty clear. Tolerance is saying no problem to a day of prayer and also to domestic partnerships and same sex marriage. Intolerance is making it all illegal.
May 5, 2012 at 1:00 am #757173
DBPMemberA Prayer for Business — as read at yesterday’s meeting. Written and delivered by Elder Don Wilson of Westside Presbyterian.
(I know, I know. Of all things! Praying for Wall Street?! Absurd! —Well . . . just read it for yourselves before you make up your minds. I’ve highlighted the parts that I found especially relevant.)
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“A Prayer For Business”
Elder Don Wilson
Westside Presbyterian Church
Seattle
Almighty God, our Father in heaven, we acknowledge your unseen Presence and praise You that we can meet with You at the Throne of Grace.
We thank You that we can be with You — not because we are worthy of this privilege but because the way into Your Presence is through Jesus your Son, and the blood which He shed, and by your Spirit. We worship you Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits. Father, You have indeed blessed our nation with vast natural resources and we give you our thanks for these. We remember, however, that You require us to be wise, good and faithful stewards of those resources, and we have to confess that so often we have failed in that stewardship. Gracious Lord, forgive our sins and failures through Jesus Christ and grant to each of us the grace to be wiser and better stewards of all that You have blessed us with.
Father, we thank You for the gift of work and we thank You for the promise to bless the work that we do. Your Word also tells us that it is God who enables us to earn a living and to acquire wealth. Lord, we thank you for all of us here who are able to work and have employment or other sources of income but we would pray for those who are unemployed, who are not able to make ends meet, the poor and the homeless. Dear God, please be merciful to them and move those who have resources to be generous to those who do not have anything at all.
We pray for this nation’s business and commercial world, especially Wall Street and Main Street, all financial institutions and businesses, large and small. We pray for all those people engaged in business either for profit or not for profit, both the employers and the employed. We pray for a spirit and culture of honesty and fairness in America’s business dealings, both locally and nationally, as well as abroad; deliver us, as a nation, from cheating, greed, dishonest practices and that “bottom line” profit mentality that caters for our self-centered interests.
Scripture teaches us that You enable us to gain wealth not just to meet our own needs but also to share and to help meet the needs of those who lack the bare necessities of life. Gracious God, have mercy upon where we fall so far short of the standard of life you require of us.
Lord God, we cannot but be aware of the deeply distressing economic days that, as a nation and as families and individuals, we are living through, and not just in America but in other countries as well. We acknowledge, Lord God, that in so many ways we have been turning our backs upon You, going our own ways and, if we’re honest, we deserve Your judgements upon us. Lord, is our present economic disaster and slow recovery from it a sign of your displeasure, a call to get our attention? Help us, as Your people to repent of our sins, to turn to You and to pray for, among other things, the healing of our business and economic world. We pray for a great Awakening in the Church of Jesus Christ throughout this land of ours, such an Awakening that will overflow to society in general and lead many to turn from sin and to put their trust in Jesus. We ask all these requests in the Name of Jesus and for the glory of our Father in heaven.
Amen!
I do not share in every aspect of Elder Wilson’s beliefs. However, in looking over the text of his prayer again, I find that there is much that I do agree with.
And as for the rest . . . well . . . Does that really matter?
[TBC]
May 5, 2012 at 2:33 am #757174
NFiorentiniMemberDBP-“And as for the rest . . . well . . . Does that really matter?”
Do you *really* want an answer or are you intent on continuing your subtle variation of proselytizing? Because I can give you the flip-side, but I’ve said my piece and I don’t wanna overstay my welcome.
(I ask because evangelical fundies typically will do what ever it takes to stifle the flip-side being represented; reason and consistency are buzzkills to their delusional worldview. Sneak peak: we’ll start with Divine Command Theory.)
May 5, 2012 at 4:20 am #757175
JoBParticipantSpring Chicken
my definition of prayer is much wider than yours
i don’t believe one has to pray to a singular deity to pray.
one has to pray to a specific singular deity to pray as a Christian..
and one may have to believe things i don’t necessarily believe to participate in the kind of evangelical prayer DBP reported …
but i still think heartfelt prayer takes many forms..
i would swear i have seen animals in payer
and who knows who or what they pray for…
what i do know
is that at least one of my prayers yesterday was answered
i prayed for hope for those i hold in my heart
it’s amazing what putting it out there to the universe can do…
May 5, 2012 at 4:57 am #757176
JanSParticipantJoB..I so agree…hope is a good thing. I am not a religious person…I don’t even call myself a christian. I just am who I am. But..you know, sometimes things are beyond a mere me..I’m finding that out.
May 5, 2012 at 7:08 pm #757177
Spring ChickenMemberHi again JoB :)
It’s a popular misconception that all religions can be condensed to a set of universal core beliefs that include some form of worship or prayer. Even those claiming to be “spiritual but not religious” go along with most of it.
That’s just wishful thinking by ecumenicals who are trying to minimize the conflict caused by religious differences by emphasizing the similarities. It’s not based on genuine understanding of the profound differences between Eastern and Western religions. Open-minded communication and education are more effective in unifying our pluralistic society than National Prayer Day. Some Americans don’t want to assimilate into any Judeo-Christian-Islamic group prayer ritual, no matter how well-intentioned. To do so would deny the religion our family and ancestors have practiced for a hundred generations.
I don’t mind OP’s announcement of prayer at Alki but I wish there was no National Prayer Day. Every year at a special ceremony the President of the United States signs a Declaration encouraging all Americans to pray together. This proclamation denies the reality that not everyone prays, and implies that they should. If Christians want a special day for prayer with their believer friends it should be organized by the churches. Perhaps only those who have experienced America as a religious minority will understand?
I’m glad your heartfelt wish come true. I don’t know whether animals pray or not, but I suspect that your perception of animal behavior is being influenced by your religious beliefs.
May 5, 2012 at 10:56 pm #757178
casabobaMemberThis brief video-clip strikes me as a “middle-ground” to the comments made.
TEDxSF – Louie Schwartzberg – Gratitude
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gXDMoiEkyuQ
May 5, 2012 at 11:51 pm #757179
Genesee HillParticipantMay 6, 2012 at 1:27 am #757180
DBPMemberDBP — Do you *really* want an answer or are you intent on continuing your subtle variation of proselytizing? Because I can give you the flip-side, but I’ve said my piece and I don’t wanna overstay my welcome.
Please, by all means, NFiorentini . . . give us the “flip-side.” I know you to be a thoughtful and candid person, and I always welcome a good debate. Especially about things spiritual.
May 8, 2012 at 3:57 am #757181
DBPMemberAw shucks! I thought NF was gonna come back here and dispute theology with me.
(NF, you can always contact me at DP_Editor at comcast. I do private consultations. Seances, too.)
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Back to the NDP.
Like Elder Wilson, many of the officiants spent at least some of their allotted time talking about the poor and the homeless among us. In fact the headliner, Pastor Peter Mueller of Hope Lutheran, spent much of his time talking about that subject, urging those of us with means to help those of us in need.
That impressed me.
Hope Lutheran has made good on this talk, too, by supporting Nickelsville. As have many other churches in this community.
But speaking of Lutherans, I wanna say this. I had occasion to call on a Lutheran-funded agency recently when I needed some help.
And I mean I needed some HELP.
Not buddy-can-you-spare-a-dime help.
More like: buddy-can-you-put-me-up-for-a-year help.
There was no place else for me to go.
The government couldn’t help.
Friends could help, and they DID help.
But they couldn’t put me up for a year.
So it basically came down to the Lutherans and a couple of other churches, and I decided to go with the Lutherans, ‘cuz I liked their digs.
As a matter of fact, though, all three of the churches whose doors I knocked on said: “Yeah, we’ll help you. We’ll give you a place to stay.”
Not ONE of the churches whose doors I knocked on said, “Yeah, we’ll help you . . . but you gotta pray with us and believe like we do.”
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OK, so maybe I don’t wanna come pray with the Lutherans on National Prayer Day. Fine. I don’t have to.
But what kind of person would I be if I called them friend when I needed a favor and then turned around and talked trash about them?
Or let somebody else talk trash about them.
[TBC]
May 8, 2012 at 1:38 pm #757182
Spring ChickenMemberDBP your having gotten help from a church once is unrelated to the topic of National Prayer Day. If you like them for helping you out, why not just go join that church?
Why do you feel this Declaration is necessary or desirable? Now that you have become aware that National Prayer Day excludes and denies the religions (or constitutional freedom from religions) of a large subset of Americans, many born into other traditions after many generations and not joined such simply to beg charity or because we like their “digs” as you put it. Many of us see NPD as distasteful political posturing by Presidents to improve their image as a “spiritual leader” to please Christian voters. (Credit President Obama for being the first since Truman not to schedule the usual signing ceremony with press as a photo op.)
Who here has “talked trash” (as you say) against Hope Lutheran?
May 8, 2012 at 1:39 pm #757183
NFiorentiniMember -
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