Little League just got more expensive

[HMC Rich]

I saw on Q-13 a story on how the city has raised the rates on parks and fields which will drastically affect how much parents play for their kids to participate in certain outdoor sports. Basically, to cover costs, each kid who wants to play baseball, their family would need to pony up $240.00 to actually cover the cost. Only problem is the organization just found out after people had registered and paid only half. About a $200% increase. Maybe the WSB reported on a similar story and I missed it. This increase will certainly deter some families. Seattle just got a wee bit less kid friendly.

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[charlabob]

Seattle has gotten poorer–this will happen a lot, in cities all over the country. If you don’t watch the show “Parks and Recreation,” you may want to do so. Get used to losing or paying more for “critical” services. Little league isn’t critical. NOT playing little league isn’t life threatening.

I imagine organizations or individuals will come up with subsidies for families that can’t afford the cost.

Sorry, that’s what happens when people decide they don’t want to pay for government.

On the other hand, the radical state of Illinois decided to *increase state income tax by 2% so they could afford to continue critical government service.

I have NO interest in talking about whether <foo> taxes pay for <fum> service. It’s really irrelevant. The truth is, this is the logical extension of our “shrink government in the bathtub” mentality — the little league uniforms will be shrinking too.

And, before some “fair and balanced” person asks if I would have said the same thing if RedBlack or Ken were the OP, yup, I would have. As long as the people of Seattle, Wa, the US, refuse to support paying for government, government will have make really painful choices and some of the choices will hurt people who aren’t used to being hurt.

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[DP]

Not contradicting anything charlabob is saying but, geez! does one little-league kid really do $240* worth of damage to a park in the course of a season?

Whatever happened to the sandlot ball game anyway?

 

*Technically, the damages would be even greater than this, if, as Rich says, $240 is just the additional amount each kid has to pay. But I suspect there’s some screwy math going on here.

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[redblack]

well, charla, since you invoked my name… :)

i wouldn’t complain about trivialities like that. the bottom line is that the city has determined the cost of doing [x] based on its budgetary constraints. unlike some private industries’ leaders *cough*comcast*cough* who arbitrarily set prices to cover exorbitant profits, bonuses, and advertising budgets.

imho, seattle – or king county – should have its own income tax and MVET if washington state won’t. this could help fund everything from roads to little league.

DP: think about the upkeep of a baseball field.

rich: does the $240 include things like uniforms? team/bracket structure? what do you get for your money?

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[DP]

This would be a perfect chance for people to get more involved in the process . . .

If I was a Little League Parent, I would be banding together with my fellow LLPs and approaching the Parks Department with the following:

Please show us your maintenance records and show us exactly how you arrived at this figure of $240 (or whatever) extra per kid, per season.

With that info in hand, you can proceed to ask two important follow-up questions:

1) Is the Seattle Parks Department spending the proper amount to maintain our parks? and

2) Is everyone who uses/owns the park paying a fair share of that cost?

If you’re not happy with the answers you get, you can then go to the Legislature, the media, the voters, or even Tim Eyman, and make your case.

Unfortunately, for this year, LLPs are pretty much screwed, because the fee is already set. But speaking of Tim Eyman, maybe that’s why this year’s raise was so steep. Eyman’s last initiative severely limits government’s ability to raise fees and taxes. Since Seattle Parks knows it can’t raise fees again without a supermajority vote from the State Legislature, they may have decided to launch a pre-emptive first strike.

redblack: I always save the best for last . . . Do you remember how you came out solidly against tort reform and capping damages in lawsuits? How much you wanna bet that a part of what every Little League kid pays in “maintenance fees” actually goes to buy liability insurance?

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[redblack]

good point, DP. i’m sure that’s a part of the cost per kid. and it’s evidently sound practice, because private industry does it all of the time.

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[pam]

As a previous board member of West Seattle Little League – back in the stone ages – before assuming that groups like WSLL will raise their player fees and scare potential families away from asking for information – let’s ask if/how it will affect them.

Luckily WSLL has always had wonderful community sponsors who absorb a part of the fees involved in running a very volunteer oriented activity. A great way for the general community to contribute is to come down to the field, watch a game and buy a hotdog and soda.

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[WSB]

Regarding whether we did a similar story, I heard very early this am from WSLL leadership. This fee increase, whether you agree or disagree with it, is nothing sudden. The mayor proposed it in his budget months ago – that fees would go up for Parks facilities including field use. Much-publicized hearings and comment opportunities ensued. I was surprised that not many people showed up to speak up. The changes to the community centers brought a few out but not as many as I would have expected, either. In the end, the City Council has the final vote on the budget, and they approved it, but they were not the ones who made the original choice. This is a classic case, in one aspect, of: You *have to* pay attention to the news, and to the “fine print.” Heaven knows, some things in some places are done quietly, secretly … this was not one of them, though the SPECIFICS of the “increased fees” were apparently not out till post-budget finalization.

Also please note, I don’t believe WSLL has actually raised fees for its players. According to its president, who wrote us early this am, they don’t want to price kids out, so they are deciding how to cover what is something like an $8,000 total difference in fees this year – and also asking for a waiver on the portion they were asked to pay for Bar-S Field, since they have put tons of privately raised money into maintenance/improvements there.

I sent back a bunch of followup questions and once we have answers, we’ll have a story.

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[DP]

I’m not saying it’s come to this yet, but if it does come down to a choice between lawyers and goldbrickers being able to make an unlimited amount of money off lawsuits and kids being able to play baseball . . . hmmm . . . well, it’s a tough call, but I guess I gotta go with the kids on this one.

And by the way, private companies don’t really pay for liability insurance. Consumers do. That’s you and me, folks.

In the meantime, I’ll drop a line to Seattle Parks to see if I can find out what their annual liability insurance costs are.

<hijack>

In Texas alone (!), trial lawyer PACs spent $13 million on last year’s elections.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/Sue-per-size-Me

Now where do you suppose all that money came from?

Lawsuits perchance?

</hijack>

 

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[maplesyrup]

All of my kids are in sports programs and we already pay out the nose for it. But this rate hike doesn’t bother me.

I think we should be asking ourselves why we’re so enamored with sports in our society. It’s a drive that starts with soccer leagues for 4 year-olds and goes all the way to cheering for professional teams mostly comprised of players from other cities who will probably leave Seattle in a few short years. Even though I’m a participant in it all I sometimes wonder how we ended up with such warped priorities.

Sports are fun but I don’t think they should come at the expense of more pressing needs, and if this is what it takes to keep youth sports going and still provide some other basic services, I’m not going to complain.

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[redblack]

And by the way, private companies don’t really pay for liability insurance. Consumers do. That’s you and me, folks.

i was agreeing with you, and it would explain a little league fee increase – if liability insurance is part of the fee. we don’t know that it is.

most likely, the city covers any liability on publicly-owned ball fields under some kind of general clause.

so to respond to the thread-jacking topic:

for example, if a gopher – like in caddyshack – digs a hole in a publicly-owned baseball field, and a kid chasing a fly ball steps in it and has a debilitating accident, should the kid’s damages be capped?

i think not.

regarding trial lawyer PACs, i would respond by asking if you’ve ever read any of john grisham’s books. trial lawyers do good work when consumers are being screwed by individuals and corporations with unlimited resources. the defendants have made the cost of going to trial expensive because they can afford to intimidate people away from lawsuits. and many lawyers have fallen into destitution trying tort cases. (see anderson v. cryovac.) yes, some get fabulously wealthy, and it might make them look like sharks (once their law school debts are paid off, that is; which can run to 6 figures these days.) but that doesn’t negate their need.

if you want to cap the lawyers’ profits at a percentage, fine. but don’t advocate for capping jury awards. it just seems wrong.

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[HMC Rich]

Here is the link I watched that I should have posted. http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-01202011-paytoplay,0,7866408.story

Thanks WSB for looking into it more.

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[hooper1961]

in lieu of fee increases maybe the teams could conduct volunteer services to keep the field areas clean; thus reducing the City janitorial cost.

we all pay for liability cost in increased cost of goods and services. the old adage one lawyer in a town can make a living and with two they get wealthy.

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[mrhineh]

Each parent for West Seattle Little League donates 5 hours of volunteer time, or pays an extra $30 per season. So they are already doing this.

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[JoB]

maplesysrup…

sports programs have traditionally been one route out of poverty for disadvantaged kids…

that is.. it was before schools started cutting programs and charging for participation

we are now a pay to play society.

yes.. kids still can and do play games on empty fields…

but those games don’t include the kind of coaching and exposure that will help a kid rise to the top of their game.

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[maplesyrup]

Cuts have to be made and/or fees have to go up for services.

Are you suggesting that we prioritize sports over, say, studying as a way to get out of poverty, JoB?

BTW some youth sports organizations will make exceptions for hardship cases.

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[JoB]

maplesyrup

i am suggesting that when we prioritize we don’t put kids on the bottom of the list

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