I am totally oposed to Kavanaugh on the Supreme court but……

[JoB]

I don’t care if Kavanaugh is a wealthy privileged brat who preyed on other wealthy privileged brats.

But i do care that he is not willing to acknowledge what his classmates report. that he was often drunk and that he became belligerent when drunk.

I care that his response to a woman that bore the brunt of that drunken belligerence when he was a young man was not.. i am so sorry.. i never intended to do anything like that.. but belligerent scorn. I care a great deal.

I care that his response to being questioned by female senators was belligerent, abusive and did not answer the questions posed. I care a great deal.

i care that he obviously lied under oath when he “mischaracterized” the behavior that he boasted about in writing and in speeches in all male settings.

i care that he lied under oath about issues other than Mrs Ford… and you can go look those up yourself. You will have to get beyond faux news to find the extensive reporting of those lies.. but there you go. that they are reported on “progressive” media does not make them any less true.

i care that over 90% of his public record has not been released and if the Republicans have their way never will be. I care that the Republicans are doing everything in their power.. and make no mistake they control this “investigation” to keep the results of the FBI probe.. limited as it is.. secret… as are the instructions the FBI recieved that limit the scope of this investigation.

i care that the FBI is not even interviewing Mrs Ford or following up on the extensive list of corroborating evidence she provided them through her attorneys.

I care deeply. Not because i want to persecute this man but because I am not protected in the Constitution with equal rights because i am female … the ERA was never ratified.

This man, if confirmed will take his contempt of women into the highest court in the land and i am deeply concerned about the kinds of rulings he will produce there that will further limit not only the rights of women but the rights of every minority.

Judge Kavanaugh has a record.. and although his rulings have been reasonably phrased he has not ruled in the public’s interest…. i have every reason to mistrust a federal judge who does not rule in the public interest.

What i truly can’t understand is why people who would never condone the kind of behavior he exhibited in that hearing if it occured in their community .. would never hire an applicant who behaved like that… are bent on defending him… as though nobody had any right to question his behavior.

because the bottom line is that is what we are doing.. questioning his behavior and his fitness to serve on the highest court in this land.. the final arbiter of law.

I really don’t get it

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by JoB.

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[mark47n]

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal standard applied in criminal court. It is not a standard that must be applied anywhere else. This is a common misconception.

Kavanaugh is not in front a of a criminal court.

Numerous witnesses, not Democrats but people who know him, have come forward and had “interesting” things to say about him. Things that have moved more than 500 law professors to denounce him and to cause Harvard to cut him from their faculty. Harvard can hardly be said to be a bastion of left-wing thought.

As to Ford: she didn’t come forward on her own, she was outed by someone else. That this led other women who’s been harassed or worse by Kavanaugh doesn’t affect her credibility OR impugn the credibility of other women. Why, reasonable people (well, some of you people reading this) , would someone come out and make such an accusation knowing that they’ll be dragged through the mud and raked over the coals? Oddly, those screeching “INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!” are not granting the accusers the same right. They are assumed to be lying gold-digging harpies out to exact some amorphous revenge or the like.

For those who want to bring the specter of Clinton and his lying about his affair with Lewinsky: yes. Clinton lied. He was impeached. The Republican senate chose not to convict. In like fashion, Kavanaugh told numerous lies under oath during the confirmation hearings. Lies that he was called out for by the committee. After being caught he would double down on those lies. Granted, many of those lies were as important as lying about affairs (as opposed to matters of realpolitik) but are lies none the less. I guess to those who would rabidly support the Kavanaugh’s and Trump’s of the world truth is only a convenient bludgeon. After all, Trump’s been lying the entire time he’s been a national embarrassment and I mean from the 1980’s.

I accept that Kavanaugh will be confirmed but that doesn’t mean I have to like it. He’s another Republican scumbag who’ll rant about the Democratic “elites” and will never really understand that he is one of the real elite. Wealthy, Ivy League schools, groomed for positions of power. I will say that Republican’s really don’t seem to have a real grasp on that word, elite.

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[JoB]

someone speaking for the president just said that the FBI was not tasked with examining the witnesses who have come forward or whether or not Kavanaugh perjured himself because no-one who mattered asked for that information.

no-one who mattered.. let that sink in. Only those Republicans on the committee who wanted to advance Kavanaugh’s nomination mattered.

told us.. didn’t they

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[J242]

“Innocent until proven guilty is a legal standard applied in criminal court. It is not a standard that must be applied anywhere else. This is a common misconception.”

YES! THIS!!!! ^

“Numerous witnesses, not Democrats but people who know him, have come forward and had “interesting” things to say about him. Things that have moved more than 500 law professors to denounce him and to cause Harvard to cut him from their faculty. Harvard can hardly be said to be a bastion of left-wing thought.”

Beyond that, his OWN notes, calendars (who keeps calendars from when they were teens? Honestly, that’s a common trait of sociopaths), and classmates’ statements all corroborate the testimony. Let’s take it a step further and recognize that the FBI did not investigate the claims of his classmates. Or his unaffiliated friends, or the other women calling him out.

This is a horror show happening right in front of us and it’s painfully obvious to see why. It’s all so Trump can’t be charged while in office, or when he leaves. Nothing more.

If you know a Kav supporter, please slap them. This is a blatantly transparent attempt by 45 to ensure he won’t face criminal charges and nothing else. The rest of us will pay for it for the rest of our lives.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by J242.

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[JoB]

J242

i wish slapping would knock some sense into Kavanaugh supporters..
all they care about is winning.. no matter what it costs them :(

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[22blades]

” I hate that I cannot have a civil conversation with most of my friends anymore because they became so angry if you even mention his name.”

I cannot think of a leader, short of a despot ruling over his or her people, who is less interested in a conversation than this current president. When an elected president or SCOTUS nominee figuratively or physically puts a hand over the mouth calling for help, I cannot see this figure as the bar I want the next generation to strive for or trust.

As for being born into a world of wealth and power, you cannot escape that you will have resources far outrunning the common man. How you flaunt it can be a middle finger to the common man. There are plenty of examples of wealth and power put to good use. But, as Senator Orrin Hatch said, insultingly, “grow up”.

Public office was meant to be a place to serve, not to win. Sadly, that seems to be lost on America.

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[935]

Sigh.

So J242 and Job are actually condoning violence against people who don’t agree with them. This is truly a sad state of affairs.

Look people, Diane Feinstein had the Dr’s letter since July. She (oops) leaked it 2 days before the scheduled vote. Did so for maximum political damage. Why was it NOT released upon receipt? Or at least immediately after it was thoroughly vetted? To gnash and rage now is just not credible.

The rage should be at the dem leadership. They covered for Kavanaugh up until they thought it would be best (or most opportune??) to release the information. Except for the lack of corroborating evidence.

Someone earlier noted my statement about innocence until proven guilty. Yes, this is NOT a court of law. But the presumption of innocence is a keystone piece in our judicial system. IF this were a court case, there would have been a great deal of discovery done. There would have been thorough examination and cross examination. But it wasn’t. It COULD’VE been more thoroughly investigated, and maybe garnered a withdrawn nomination – had Feinstein disclosed earlier. Or maybe she knew the allegations had no merit and was hoping for a “October surprise” somehow forcing a withdrawal or defeat (not at all likely – as I stated-the vote tally would not change)

All of the anger should be directed at the dem leadership. We do not know for certain if Kavanaugh lied. Or assaulted anyone. Or did anything. Like I said – PROVE it. The FBI couldn’t, the named witnesses (named by the accusers) couldn’t corroborate. Soooooo, there you are. What IS known and CAN be proven is that the dem leadership had prejudicial information and sat on it. For political reasons. Meaning they USED a victim to further some political game. THAT is odious. THAT is disgusting and THAT is the truth.

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[JoB]

935

I posted to this about an hour ago and don’t know what happened to my post..

but what i said basically was that your mischaracterization of what J242 and I actually said as advocating violence only shows the weakness of any argument you could.. and did make.

Your analysis of the FBI probe is equally flawed.

so the FBI was charged to look only into a very limited question by the people who matter.. those who were pushing the Kavanaugh investigation through .. as confirmed by a White House spokesman

White House confirms FBI’s Kavanaugh investigation only looked at what Republican senators wanted

and before you go all ballistic about linking to think progress .. you will find a clip of the CNN interview

“Asked why the FBI was not permitted to investigate whether Kavanaugh had memory lapses — as his former Yale roommate and other former classmates have alleged — Shah argued that no Senator who matters wanted to know.

“All the folks that are demanding this type of investigation in the Senate are Democrats who have already pledged to vote no. They don’t want additional information to make a decision. They want to delay this process.” ”

is that partisan enough for you? That investigation doesn’t meet the bar of there was no evidence …

if you want truth you will have to look beyond the bubble of partisan accusations coming out of Republican mouths and apply your common sense…

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[JoB]

935
I have to challenge your opening statement. I definitely did not condone violence against anyone.

nor did i mock anyone.. although as much can’t be said for our President who led those who attended his rally in laughing at a woman whose greatest fear was to be laughed at….

stretching the desire to slap those who mouth idiocies like “We do not know for certain if Kavanaugh lied. Or assaulted anyone. Or did anything. Like I said – PROVE it. The FBI couldn’t, the named witnesses (named by the accusers) couldn’t corroborate” and choosing not to is a far cry from advocating violence.

the FBI was never tasked with determining whether Kavanaugh lied. Because the people who “mattered” didn’t ask that question. It was never tasked with even acknowledging the sworn statements sent to them that supported the allegation because the people who “mattered” didn’t ask them to do so.

And who were the people who mattered? They were the Republican members of the committee that was trying to pass Kavanaugh’s allegation along.

“Asked why the FBI was not permitted to investigate whether Kavanaugh had memory lapses — as his former Yale roommate and other former classmates have alleged — Shah argued that no Senator who matters wanted to know.

““All the folks that are demanding this type of investigation in the Senate are Democrats who have already pledged to vote no. They don’t want additional information to make a decision. They want to delay this process.” ”

White House confirms FBI’s Kavanaugh investigation only looked at what Republican senators wanted

Explain to me how an incomplete investigation that asks only limited questions is “proof” of anything?

As for Kavanaugh’s lies.. they have been detailed and researched in the press.. and are far more wide ranging than whether or not he remembers blacking out while drinking and sexually assaulting young women… all you have to do is read them.

i know. i know.. i linked to Think Progress .. but they embedded the CNN clip from which that quote was taken… and it was plainly and unapologetically a partisan response.

this is going to be another shameful episode in our history which i hope we will begin to correct in the mid term election.

that you have to reach so far as to accuse J242 and me of advocating violence only points out the weakness of your argument.

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[935]

OK, challenge accepted…Your post above states in the affirmative of J242’s. “J242 i wish slapping would knock some sense into Kavanaugh supporters…” If that isn’t condoning violence – it is tacit approval at least. But we can split hairs all you like.

Thank you for your link to the liberal Think Progress. I had already read that. I try to stay informed around all sides, as mentioned – I’m more of a centrist than either way. I prefer to hear both sides, judge merit and vote conscience. Not letter.

As to your characterization of the investigation. Yes, I believe it was lacking and if you thoroughly read my post (as I have yours) you would see that I agree. The lack of attention to the detail about SENATOR Diane Feinstein (ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee – 11R and 10D members) having Dr Ford’s letter 2 months before “popping” it into the consciousness of the American public is the grave issue. Something happened to Dr Ford, that I have no doubt. But WHAT was it that happened….Should I provide you links to suggestive right wing articles? As you have provided left wing… That will go nowhere. The fact that Feinstein et. al. did nothing with the information before marching Dr Ford in front of America is an absolute shame. I don’t know if you watched any of the hearings, but that poor woman wanted to be anywhere else on Earth. All for the sake of playing politics. To deny this removes any credibility.

Did Kavanaugh drink to excess? Well, left leaning websites and pundits certainly think there are witnesses to affirm. Names were named, and interviewed. As for lies and perjury…I have been unable to locate any proven transgressions. Please cite any sources that have proven accusations, we can forward them onto the FBI. The FBI, who by the way is no friend of the current president has been unable to substantiate any accusations. At least that’s what the confidential report summarized. What it really said, I’d LOVE to know….

You can point to the weakness of my argument all you like. The facts, as we know them back “my argument”. The candidate was thoroughly vetted (several background checks over several years) Accusations made and then promptly sat on by Sen. Feinstein et. al. (To deny or gloss over this removes any credibility of the left) Surreptitiously followed up on by a hasty FBI investigation (asked for by a member of the majority party) No corroborative evidence found by the names named by the 2 “more credible” accusers. IMHO, Swetnick has zero credibility. Also “investigated” were the claims of high school and college classmates by names named there. So, they (FBI) didn’t find anything damning. At least that WE, the People, know of. I hope to believe the FBI does not act at the whim of any person or interest. They certainly aren’t in the Russia probe.

SIDE NOTE – I completely agree with you that the president’s actions in Mississippi are disgusting. As I said, something happened to Dr Ford, and that should never be made light of. And as for the posting lag time, I have noticed too that it takes posts from 935 several HOURS to appear on this board. I am not certain what is going on at HQ. As for November? Well – time for the left and the right to energize their bases. The right usually turns out for midterm elections….But either way you can be assured that this travesty will be well used by BOTH sides to generate revenue and further divide the nation. (written and posted at 11:58 am 10/08/2018)

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[JoB]

sorry about the repeat. my first post was evidently caught in some kind of filter before it was spit out.. the two posts were an hour or so apart

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[HMC Rich]

Hey 935. I’m with you. Watching Susan Collins’ speech using evidence and common sense should be an example of how to vet a candidate for the Supreme Court. She is a moderate who spoke plainly without bias. Decisions were made by evidence and research. It was a speech that should be read in a civics class.

Bottom line. No matter who was appointed there was going to be a battle put up by the Anti-Trump forces.

Will this nomination process energize or deter voters of different blocs to vote at the midterms?

If you watch CNN or MSNBC you get the feeling of a blue wave. If you watch FOX or OAN you will get a feeling that Republicans might not lose control of the Senate or possibly even the House.

Time will tell.

Congratulations Justice Kavanaugh. May your decisions be wise and Constitutional.

I raise my red solo cup with beer and ice to you. And if any Antifa members decide to start an altercation be warned, I have ice to throw at you. And if you are an illegal alien and start an altercation, I will call I.C.E. To get you. Cheers.

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[TSurly]

Who the hell puts ice in their beer?

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[JoB]

all i can do is sigh and hope that rationalizations like yours encourage people who don’t think this next election matters to vote.

Your President mocked a woman who reluctantly came forward to tell her story and who stated that her most painful memory from that episode was the laughter of the young men. He not only allowed an entire audience of supports to laugh at her.. he encouraged them.

i would love to hear how you rationalize that.

as for the link to Think Progress.. what i linked to was the clip of Shaw saying exactly what the article reports he said…

to paraphrase.. the FBI asked the questions the people who mattered thought were important.. the people controlling the process. The questions the democrats on the committee wanted answered weren’t important because they were just politically exploiting the situation.

the “situation” the democrats were “exploiting” was accusations of sexual misconduct by Kavanaugh by more than one woman backed by sworn affidavits sent to the FBI by witnesses to the pattern of conduct… and lies told during the hearing.

allegation and affidavits the FBI did not explore because they weren’t part of their mandate.. the mandate from people who mattered.

Democrats didn’t encourage Kavanaugh to hang out with the crowd of frat boys who bragged about drinking to excess and sexually harassing women. Democrats didn’t lie about his participation.

but hey.. maybe you can find a way to blame Hillary. She was older and wiser than Kavanaugh at the time and she didn’t stop him.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by JoB.

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[935]

Well, as it’s been almost 24 hours (this time) I’ll go ahead and attempt a repost.

Again, and again. The deflection of the FACT that the democratic leadership had prejudicial information and did nothing with it. Glossed over and “forgotten” Just as the left will/has treated Dr Ford. SHAMEFUL

I will NOT be an apologist for the president (point of clarification – he’s YOUR president too – unless you are a citizen of another country, in which case, welcome) But what I can say, rationally, is that if you open yourself to the public, be prepared to show all your shiny-ness and prettiness, but also be prepared to show all your warts and ugliness. What you call mocking, some (not me) may call repetition of the facts. I think that it is reprehensible to mock a victim, regardless of factual nature.

This is the second time you have brought that up, yet you say nothing about the abuse democrat leadership foisted upon Dr Ford by holding onto her letter and testimony. Whatever encouragement her congressional representative told her, as well as Sen. Feinstein’s office to delay her testimony. Hopefully Sen. Grassley will get a hold of that correspondence and make it public along with the findings of the FBI report. I don’t think that I will hold my breath for that.

As for who Justice Kavanaugh associated with…We all run in circles. Sometimes those circles overlap with “others”. I know for one, that my circles overlapped when I was a teen. Did yours? We would go to (gasp) drinking parties and behave as teens do. Nobody “encouraged” anybody to go to them (well aside from some normal teenage “peer pressure”) And Justice Kavanaugh did not lie about his participation – so I don’t really know where you’re going with that….But I know for certain (and not to quote my age, but I am similar to Justice Kavanaugh’s) I can most certainly NOT remember the majority of the events at those parties. Not because of the beer, but because of the time since….Can you remember clearly ALL the events you attended? I think not, and clearly neither can anyone else related to the Kavanaugh investigation. Except Dr Ford and Justice Kavanaugh.

You mention “lies told at the hearing”. I await any citations you can provide. If you have prejudicial information, please disclose it. I would do so publicly.

And Hillary?? – You’re grasping….

Thanks HMC Rich (8:20, 10/09/2018)

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[JoB]

935

” if you open yourself to the public, be prepared to show all your shiny-ness and prettiness, but also be prepared to show all your warts and ugliness. What you call mocking, some (not me) may call repetition of the facts. I think that it is reprehensible to mock a victim, regardless of factual nature”

what lovely piece of double speak .. if Mr Trump was not mocking the victim … why did he not only acknowledge the laughter but participate in it?

You don’t approve unless you can somehow label that behavior “honesty”? Where was the honesty in his remarks?

“Can you remember clearly ALL the events you attended?”

No, i can’t remember every event i attended. but i certainly do remember every time i was pressed with unwelcome sexual attention that made me uncomfortable.. or when i inflicted it on others..
and although i am sure i have my share of drinking tales i could tell.. i never boasted about them in writing or in speeches. Never once have i glorified getting drunk to the point of stumbling home drunk or engaging in sexual high jinks… you really should look up the meaning of the terms in Kavanaugh’s yearbooks. I did.

deflecting the blame on democrats does not change either the behavior of Kavanaugh or his belligerent behavior when questioned about it.

as for whether i claim Mr Trump as my president.. nope i don’t. He happens to be the sitting President of the United States but there is a lot of question as to whether his election was the legitimate choice of the people and when the dust settles i don’t think this is going to be a President .. or a Congress.. anyone is proud to claim.

Thank god the midterms aren’t far away. We will see what the people have to say then…

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[935]

Well since my original post of over 2 hours ago hasn’t shown up, I will write another, as I don’t like the way I came off in the 1st. Copy and pasted here: Note changes in bold

x3 glossing over the culpability of the minority party. Your The credibility of the argument you make is shot. Your The unwillingness to cite any sources related to “lies” told says enough. I do think you are correct when you say “We will see what the people have to say then…” However, I’m afraid that it will not be what you’ll want to hear.

As for said mid terms – well….any news site will tell you the donations are pouring into BOTH sides. Pretty shameful all around.

As for your second to final paragraph – regardless. Donald J. Trump is the President of all Americans – however odious to you and many that may be.

HMCRich got it right when they said “No matter who was appointed there was going to be a battle put up by the Anti-Trump forces”. What is wrong with just being honest with the process? YOU (not necessarily Job – but the universal) can’t stand the president. You can’t stand the congress, you can’t stand the process. Therefore anyone presented to it, you can’t stand. It is simple reason. Be honest with yourself and your argument. If it is truly lies and corruption you are concerned with, let’s bring up Hillary again, and her husband Bill and the shameful things they did and covered for. DOCUMENTED FACTS they deny being a part of. No…No no. This is not about truth and fact. This is about hurting the President, his administration and to wit – the country.
5:01 PM 10/10/2018

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[JoB]

btw.. i have two words to say about the process .. Merrick Garland
you know. that judge that republicans liked until Obama chose him to fill a Supreme Court vacancy.. the seat that Kavanaugh now holds..

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[935]

Again, incorrect. Justice Neil Gorsuch sits in the seat that President Obama wanted to name Merrick Garland to. Justice Kavanaugh is sitting in retired Justice Kennedy’s seat.

That aside, please see my first posting about a sitting lame duck president and the games that Congress plays. It is known colloquially as The “McConnell rule” but before now it was known as the “Biden rule”. It’s not a legitimate rule per se, but basically it states that a president shouldn’t appoint a supreme court nominee during the year leading up to an election year. It’s ridiculous and petty but it stands to reason, to the victor go the spoils.

I guess we’ll see if RBG stays on and whether or not the president will be offered a third seat to fill. 2:30pm 10/11/2018

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[JoB]

next post pending.. i think the filter kicks them out if they are too long

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[JoB]

935

you might ask yourself.. why that particular supreme court judge?
i can probably answer that.. because he had paid his political not judicial dues and because a Yale alum.. George Bush.. campaigned for him in the background.

you might ask yourself.. why now? Because once having settled on Kavanaugh there wasn’t time to get another justice seated before the midterms.

So.. they doubled down on a troublesome candidate who might not have seen the last of his troubles yet. He has been charged with ethics violations in his last federal judgeship.

will he be cleared of those charges? That remains to be seen. If he is not cleared of those charges, can he still keep his seat on the Supreme Court? That remains to be seen too. Either way he is currently sitting on the Supreme Court.

Would i have had problems with any candidate the Federalist Society put forward. Of course.. and everyone on the short list that Kavanaugh was added to at the last minute was in fact put there by the federalist society.

Would every candidate have faced ethics violations? Probably not.

You see, i refuse to believe that every frat boy in the 80s behaved the way the Truth and Courage club .. otherwise known as the “tit and clit” club.. did. I refuse to believe that every frat boy in America boasted about their behavior in their yearbook.

I refuse to believe that every frat boy in America who was a member of such a club and boasted about their youthful exploits wouldn’t have stood before the committee and apologized for the excesses of their youth.. excesses both they and their best friend documented…

evading giving a truthful answer to direct questions made in that context is lying… and you know that.

What else did he lie about? there are long lists but unless the other 98% of his records are released those lies will be difficult to prove.. won’t they.

This supreme court nomination and the circus that has followed was shameful.

As for whether he is my president or not… sorry.. he may be the President of the United States but i wanted nothing to do with him long before idiots allowed him to be elected… and his behavior as President hasn’t changed my mind.

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[935]

Your disdain for some of the American population is distressing. You and J242 would like to “slap nonsense” out of their mouths. And now you stoop to calling almost 63 million Americans “idiots”.

This is the basis of the American political landscape. And it is sad. There is no longer any common ground. It all goes to a base hatred of conflicting ideals. I will hang up the keyboard now, I wish you all the best and I’m hopeful that you (again, not necessarily Job – the universal you) might be able to let go of the hate you have and listen and enjoin in respectful conversation about moving this great nation forward together. As Americans.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by WSB.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by 935.

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[JoB]

935

What should i call anyone who votes against their own best interests? Victims?

And why would you label my dismay at the willingness of Americans to be lied to hate?

i don’t hate anyone. I am not willing to imprison them or let them die on the streets or take their medical care away from them or remove their children from them or make their personal choices about their medical care for them or…. that’s disdain.. which turns into hate when those who are oppressed refuse to meekly go hide themselves from view.

demanding respect when you have no respect for others is pretty self serving…
and the root of what is currently wrong with America.

i hope we turn out in numbers too large for voter suppression to matter.
i say hope.. because too many have been convinced that their voices don’t matter…
they do.

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[JoB]

935
Have you heard of the group patriot front? There’s a group right here in Seattle.
One of their latest posters… America.. not stolen.. conquered.
that moral high ground you think you are standing on.. that’s what’s crawling out under it.

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[935]

Job – Have you heard of the group ANTIFA? There’s a group right here in Seattle.

One of their recent events…marching in Portland.. had angry young people screaming at elderly citizens and calling them hateful names… Creating gridlock and other nefarious activities.

That moral high ground you think you are standing on..That’s what your “moral high ground” represents and facilitates.

We can do this ALL day every day and get nowhere, which is why (THIS time) I truly plan on hanging up the keyboard…RE this topic…. The FREE Garbage thread will live on!

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[Author]

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