health insurance cost increase

[kootchman]

Sorry dhg… but the numbers don’t pencil out they way… no insult was meant, so stop looking for em Mike.. I don’t see how you can make Big Pharma not for profit… it takes 500-800 million to bring a drug to market…those are FDA rules and most of that is in clinical trials… (http://healthcare-economist.com/2006/04/29/802m/) . One of the “deals” Obama cut to get support for Obamacare was a 12 year patent window..before allowing generics… We are spending less on the military now then we were in 73’… as a percentage of GDP. 2010 was less than 5%… Medicare/Medicaid is the fastest growing sector of government spending rising at an annualized rate of 8.7 per cent.. it is at the moment 23% of federal spending, add SS and the two together top 40% and the boomers are retiring at the rate of 10,000 per day…. the two together are unsustainable. That’s why the Senate won’t pass a budget… they don’t want to go on record for having to make the cuts to entitlements. You can read a pie chart… ya think we can cut military spending to make up the difference? Crazy talk,…The MMA Act of 1973 put the non interference clause in drug negotiating… that was the downside… the upside, was, a hugh explosion in new drugs, especially orphan drugs with essential need, but small numbers of customers. I know it sucks miws.. but such is the way it is… how are you going to recoup an 800 million dollar investment in an FDA approved drug? Can’t buy European drugs that don’t meet FDA standards either…. We would never have had retro-virals without it. It is fortunate she does have access to the drug,, I don’t know the drug or the condition, but..I do know..from the USA comes all the orphan drugs… Yea dhg… ya see lots of capital investment from the 90% right? Hell half of us don’t pay any income tax now… going to have them invest in new jobs? Nice statement,but fuffanutter…better look at the rate of growth of GDP which is at the moment 1.9 per cent…and the rate of growth of entitlements…which is over 8%… see how that works? These are checkable numbers… you cannot, impossible to do all these magical things. Good sound bite… but you do know if we return to 73 tax rates, the 63, or the 53 tax rates…… guess who is going to get the biggest hit? The 50% who pay no taxes now. Just for funsies… federal spending since 1970 has grown 9 times faster than median household income… those are inconvenient facts .. but true. (Household Median income rose 36% during the same period half rose more, half rose less)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2011.png

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[miws]

Well, maybe no insult was intended, but as I stated; IMHO.

And, speaking of acronyms; FTR, I wasn’t looking for insults, it just kinda jumped out at me….

Mike

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[Jiggers]

JoB… is right. ER is the bread and butter of hospital revenue.I know. I have been to ER more times than any blog member here, I guarantee! And not just for a scratch. I’m talking about serious sh.. Anybody want to bet? I feel blessed that I am covered by Medicaid and Medicare. No complaints by me. Remember, I have no immune system to protect me from your unhealthiness. No to Obamacare!

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[kootchman]

The point was, there are drugs out there.. some well over 18K per year that would NOT even exist without monstrous cost. If your clinical trials cost 800 million… and your customer base is limited, hence the term orphan drug…how do you recoup the costs, make profits, and stay viable? We are in that realm where there are therapies that are not going to be offered because they are too expensive. Happens at the VA .. they won’t tell you alternate drug therapies are available, particularly in the mental health realm. JoB is not right.. so says the CBO.. the per visit costs may be higher.. but not cheaper than having 360 million on national healthcare rolls and paying premiums. Not trial lawyers? OK then… immunize not for profits from litigation. No? Trial lawyers are core democratic campaign contributors.. Democrats and republicans both have had the authority to pull MMA… but they won’t. we’d be back to asprin, fluids, bed rest and prayer. Just who would make all these drugs miws… if they went not for profit? I just watched a drug line go down after three attempts at clinical trials failed… it happens.. cost? 1,5 billion..you can only do so many computer models before you have to give it a try, Look at Byetta..late night trial lawyers chumming for clients…AND they passed FDA clinicals and are being sued…big bad drug companies trying to cure obesity induced diabetes..now they have to defend the lawsuits,.there are no 100 per cent safe drugs….there is no more expensive way to deliver health care than through emergency rooms… not per visit … but.. Obamacare managed to do it.

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[dhg]

The middle class still existed in the 70s, which goes a long way towards explaining fed budget vs avg wage. Avg wage is currently in the toilet

And who keeps pulling this 50% pays no taxes garbage? Let’s look at leave it to beaver. Ward works, June looks after the kids. Only 25% of that family pays federal taxes. Those freeloaders! The beav needs to get a job to learn work ethics!

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[JoB]

dhg

“Let’s look at leave it to beaver. Ward works, June looks after the kids. Only 25% of that family pays federal taxes. Those freeloaders! The beav needs to get a job to learn work ethics! “

ahhhh.. those were the days

when a one income family could support itself

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[singularname]

Folks in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s (decreasingly in this decade), paid their mortagage/rent, utilities, transport, basic clothing and groceries, and INSURANCE and to their SAVINGS fund FIRST. Observe the lifestyle of any of your friends citing hardships, and note the cable in multiple rooms, cell phone choices, eating-out habits, mall excursions, profuse kitchen paraphernalia, electronics of endless varieties, Ebay addictions, tchotchkes galore, coffee on the road everyday, and on and on. (And who sucked society into buying bottled water … noting, I would NEVER advocate for a law against it. I’m sure one’s coming.) Discipline, people. Columnar pad–do a budget. Amazing how this is just a concept now.

(JanS: I don’t have to *assume* anything about you. I *do* know you. Your autobiography is published all over this forum. I consider it a kindness that I let you know that, to perhaps reevaluate your privacy. It would not be a kindness if I told you a few areas where I believe you’re priorities are out of line.)

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[JanS]

excuse me..but…I pay the minimum charge on Virgin Mobile..25 bucks a month…for cell phone., I don’t eat out, ever, unless someone is treating me. That is..never…for those of you who go out every now and then.. NEVER. I pay my bills, I buy food, I pay my rent, and I don’t have much of anything left over at the end of the month. How dare you judge…who are you to say we don’t spend out money wisely…wow. I shop thrift stores probably twice a year, I make do with what I have…I have learned the difference between want and need. I understand that some have not, and yes, they make wrong decisions. Show me a perfect human being who does everything perfectly..bet you can’t.

I only know my own personal habits. I try to not look down on others, even when I don’t agree with what the do with their lives.

yes, I have made it known that I have kidney disease and need a transplant…you do what you have to to get one…and that means broadcasting it…

singularname…have we met?

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[JoB]

singlularname…

What you don’t seem to realize is that some people with incomes choose to treat their friends without incomes to luxuries they can’t afford for themselves.

Isn’t it absolutely absolutely amazing that some people are like that!

And isn’t it absolutely amazing that Jan has so many really good friends.

all i can say is that you have a lot of nerve.

no-one knows enough from the posts on this or any other forum or social networking site to judge anyone who posts there.

it’s the things we don’t post publicly that measure the worth of a person.

I have been lucky enough to get to know JanS over the years.. both here and in the very real world of our everyday lives.

I’d like to see you do as well financially with Jan’s income, expenses and the added financial burden of a chronic illness.

I’d like to see you get up the day after dialysis and greet clients with a smile… 3 times a week, every week..

I’d like to see you give massages when your arms are riddled with holes and bruises from failed attempts to insert never ending needles

i’d like to see you get up and get going when your second wind is the only one you have… and a block is too far to walk without resting.

In a more just world, Jan wouldn’t have to be pushing herself so hard to work to support herself…

she would be resting and gathering her strength to maximize her chances when her kidney transplant comes along.

But it’s not a just world at all.

walk a mile in someone else’s shoes before you make comments on how they live their life.

you wouldn’t last 5 minutes in hers.

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[JanS]

JoB…thanks for the good words…

I have a strong back (so far)…can take others judgments. I know who I am…what others may think of me is their problem, says more about them than it does about me..

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[singularname]

JanS … Nothing in my preceding post was directed at you, JanS the person, with the exception of what I specifically addressed to you in parenthetical, which began with “JanS.” It was my opinion about the references several others made to what the state of economy was in the 1950s (“the Cleaver years”) and the 1970s, based on my first-hand observation of a good hundred or so people and families. Essentially, I resent being taxed for the benefit of people who do not work and/or spend frivolously, even to a minor degree over their means, and/or do not make significant changes (i.e., sacrifices) in their lives to take care of themselves and their loved ones, no matter how unfair their situation is or screwed up our government is. I resent it greatly. It hurts my family, my own dear friends, and myself, when my small “tribe” has and will made our own sacrifices to pull together and take care of ourselves. I empathize greatly with your conditions and am extremely happy that you have a similar “tribe” on which to rely. Neither of us can put out our best to society if we can’t take care of our own first.

(JanS: As to what I did specifically address to you regarding your privacy: You absolutely have the right to broadcast anything you want. But you emphatically stated that I only “assume” what I know about you. That I “assume” is simply not true. Because you do make known so many details about your life on this forum, that serves as a large reference by which to know you, JanS the person–what you think/do, how you think, how you prioritize the several dozen issues that come up on this forum. When you paint such a full picture of yourself, you give people data about yourself by which they can rightfully form opinions about you. For example, I now know your phone carrier, what your phone bill is, and where and how often you purchase clothes. There’s no reason to offer that information, particularly given I didn’t ask you for it or, again, even address my post to you, JanS, or anyone for that matter, about these details. And no, I have never met you–that would be, or very close to, creep behavior, and that is precisely what I was trying to hint at on your behalf, for your consideration.)

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[JanS]

So…you have never met me, and you don’t know all about me.., and you tell me you do, yet have never met me. How can that possibly be?

IU have met many people from these forums, and have become friends with many of them. What I say on here about me is not to be questioned by l the likes of anyone, esp. people who don’t know me. No, I don’t tell all about myself on here. And, yes, you “assume” things about me still, since you have stated that you don’t know me personally. How could you possibly know all about me?

Please forgive me about tell you what I purchase and where..I have a few times raved on here about my phone coverage when people inquired about different carriers. Others have done the same thing. That’s TMI for you? Sorry. People also talk about where they shop, where the deals are, where they take their cars, where they eat. Should we not discuss any of that? I’ve done the same thing. It’s called having a conversation.

Your post number 9 started this downward conversation, when you mentioned that those without should just “hustle” some more, and get themselves out of whatever it is they’re in. I pointed out that sometimes that not as easy as it looks…everyone has different circumstances, and that perhaps you should be a little kinder. Good for you that you have moved forward, of course. But..judging others is not your job, even though you seem to be doing a good job of it.

Have a great rest of the week…

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[miws]

Hey hoop! I sure hope you’re enjoying that popcorn!

What flavor this time? Kettlecorn?

Mike

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[Bonnie]

Just remember that he just gets on here to stir the pot. I’m sure he’s enjoying his popcorn and enjoying himself.

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[JoB]

singluarname..

compounding your error isn’t helping here.

Jan knows the local clothing stores because I shop for clothing and she accompanies me.

With the exception of one sale tunic purchased online on sale and worn continuously at nearly every event since and a dress for her daughter’s wedding, Jan hasn’t purchased new clothing for herself in the nearly 5 years i have known her… and i am not sure she paid for either the tunic or the dress.

you might want to do a search here and take a peek at the pics for the last couple of years. Jan wears that tunic well.

and btw.. just so you don’t call her out in future posts, i gifted jan with a few pieces this spring to celebrate a milestone… that i hope she will like as well as that tunic.

does she like a lot of items that you would consider luxurious?

yes, she does.

does she purchase them?

no.

I don’t know why you thought it was ok to step over the line and criticize individuals who offer you the smallest window into their lives here…

but it isn’t ok.

and it isn’t within the rules at WSB.

You owe JanS and everyone else that you have decided you know based on their posts here an appology.

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[miws]

Yeah, Bonnie. I know.

And some of us fell for it yet again.

It’s kinda like that annoying little itch that returns every now and then, and you know it’s one of those that’ll only get worse if you scratch it.

So, you tell yourself; “I’m not gonna scratch it….I’m not gonna scratch it….I’m not gonna scratch it….I’m not gonna scratch it…..” And then, well….. ;-)

Mike

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[JoB]

hoop can’t help himself

his itch is healthcare

and will probably stay that way until he needs something he can’t afford

then he will complain loudly about all the people who knew about this all along and didn’t do something about it ;->

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[oddreality]

Clearly Hooper1961 is all for Obama care where everyone must be insured.

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[singularname]

JoB … I owe you and yours an apology no more than someone on the dole owes taxpayers a thank you for the one to five days a month they work so that he or she doesn’t have to. And with every word to the wind one types here, they are *known* more and more by others. Why you and JanS continue to type out an inventory of her belongings and assets and hardships etc. is beyond me.

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[hooper1961]

oddreality – a 14% increase in my health care premiums is obscene and per discussion with my carrier about 10% is do to the added mandates.

yes i support the requirement everyone buys health care coverage (risk based costing smoking and weight; both choice items) and those that choose not to pay simply do not get care.

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[JoB]

singularname..

what you think you know doesn’t even constitute a drop of water in the ocean of information that is Jan..

yet you posted judgments about her behavior based on that limited knowledge.

that you don’t seem to realize your personal behavior was shameful does not make it less so.

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[singularname]

JoB … You’ve hurled more judgment on me in this sole thread than I’ve hurled at all humanity over the last decade. But, I have no need to worry about it, no need to apologize for it, no need to be ashamed about it, because–per your own vehemently stated opinion–one cannot possibly “know” someone whom they haven’t met in person, much less “judge” him or her: You blatantly contradict yourself. Given you’ve repetitively illustrated such internal confusion, I can continue to refrain from breaking down my opinions and experience involving health insurance to a level you might be able to engage on that topic. Regarding your friend, I am confident at this juncture I have more respect for her than you do, as I already stated to her that I would not share publicly my opinions on the details her situation, which I’ve based on her own words.

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[JoB]

singlularname..

i didn’t judge you.

i judged your comments

and found them singularly wanting

since you don’t have a clue what JanS’s actions actually are

how on earth could you have an opinion?

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[JoB]

singularname..

i am came back to this because there is something i didn’t say about respect.

i respect Jan because of her courage in the face of adversity..

because she gets up every morning trying to do the best she can do that day instead of measuring herself against what she was once able to do…

or against what others expect of her.

i know how hard that is.

It takes a lot of guts to realize that you bring much more to the table than your pocketbook.

and to continue giving what you can in spite of how others might judge your efforts.

I have no internal confusion at all..

any external confusion you might have experienced in regards to what i write has far more to do with your interpretation than with my intention.

You can’t expect people to deliver according to their full potential unless you give the opportunity to do so.

When it comes to health.. when you are ill

no-one delivers

not even according to their own expectations

let alone to yours

especially not when that illness becomes chronic and dictates their ability to produce.

illness is not a lifestyle choice.

without adequate healthcare.. there is no opportunity…

instead of worrying about the drain you think “those” people put on our society…

you would be better served investing in restoring them to productivity..

if they have this much to offer ill

imagine what they could do with the best health modern medicine can deliver.

Those who are draining our society are those who think health care is like any other industry…

and that what is important is that all important bottom line

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[kootchman]

Lets go back in the time machine to the glorious 50’s. NYC shut down the parks sprinklers, polio. Levittowns.. average house size, about 1000 s/f.. today? 2300. June Cleaver with a Dyson? Ward had a non air conditioned, AM radio optional, power steering optional. no seat belt, air bag, crash tested, EPA , mpg rated Studebaker. Cell phone? Huh.. lucky if your rotary dial wasn’t a party line. See June with her Cuisinart? Cancer was a death sentence of any kind. Beav was in bed with chicken pox, maybe measles, or whooping cough. And that was the “idealized” life. Kidney dialysis was years away. Hospital wards had iron lungs. Mike would be in the nearest public library reading the paper… certainly not on line with taxpayer computers at his disposal and socially disconnected.. Your doc used re-useable hypodermics. Bike lanes? For your single speed Huffy that weighed 40 lbs and couldn’t climb Avalon with 80 per cent of todays commuters. Gimme a break… the over the counter pharmacy products would have been miracle products in any hospital. No one wants to say it.. but,.. we aren’t immortal and fate throws turds in the air… 150K therapies are not a right.. and we spend so much on other things.. healtch care is going to be rationed one way or the other. I am amazed at how efficient the delivery system has been. In reality.. let’s go back to the 50’s or sixties.. you would never have seem the therapies, drugs, treatments you see today…. there would be no discussion about tansplants and costs. Failure of a vital organ was mortal. They din’t have to arbitrate equal access or fairness. In 1955 Those hospitals were mostly “St Somethng” a few public health hospitals.. but very few. You died from influenza.. you didn’t get $20 flu shots at Safeway, Rite Aid etc… some years the mortality rate was 15 per cent… infants routinely dies from Staph infections. what;s fair JoB,,,you never put a number to it… ya whine about it a lot.. let’s hear it.. how much should the state spend on a 60 year old? 100, 200, 500K ? A million? It;s not a lifestyle choice … well for some it was.. smokers, fat people, did bring it on themselves.. it was a lifestyle choice. diabetes in running rampant… we have 12 year old kids on type 2 diabetes medicine.. because they weigh 250 lbs. The will have vascular disease, eye sight loss, nuropathy, kidney failures, strokes and heart attacks., amputations, prosthetics .. not at 60 .. at age 35… where does the state say.. we are going to spend 2 million or more to move you from health crisis to health crisis until you die at age 59.,,, buy some insurance at age 24 if you have some money left after taxes… when rates are low..for the day you may need 250K … or roll the dice and don’t Your call. we offer lots of choices,,, you can own a 50K fishing boat, an RV, and a 500K home… great,,, do it. You could also say,, I will get ill and I will die… there are miraculous therapies out there,,,, if I want access to them… I better plan for it,

Fate deals cruel blows. It’s not selfish or heartless to point out the obvious.. yea, you can point to 20K a year drug therapies… I can also show you 35 vaccinations that I know would have saved the lives of family and even young friends. Mumps and measels killed in those days. Hell you can even get genetic screenings today for a probability estimate of your future. Insure against it.

Showing up at 45 with high bp and cholesterol loads off the chart and getting affordable health insurance?

what choices are you going to make? Medicare deluxe or PE classes and teachers? This “fairness” and justice is fine talk… in the talk though.. try and figure out how you are going to pay for it. It won’t be free. whats the liberal expression … for the maximum good? Unrestricted access is not for the maximum good.

Don’t tell me to pay for universal… I know how the federal government treats any revenue stream…. and you ought to by now too.. if history is an indicator it will be a pork barrel stream used to max out the credit card…. with a million new government employess you want to unionize

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