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April 3, 2012 at 5:54 am #753314
kootchmanMemberNo but they spend it like it is theirs … glad you are recognizing that taking money out of the private sector is an expense and saps the vitality of private enterprise.
April 3, 2012 at 5:57 am #753315
redblackParticipantpost-mortem, it’s not your call. if you checked that organ donor box, your liver might wind up in a poor, lazy, welfare-receiving democrat who has no ambition to own a business or become a stock broker.
sorry.
seriously, though, if the insurance company gets a whiff that a potential liver recipient ever had any liver enzymes that were out of whack due to alcohol or drug use, that person is not getting a liver, no matter what the doctor says.
feudalism. corporate feudalism.
April 3, 2012 at 6:02 am #753316
redblackParticipantNo but they spend it like it is theirs … glad you are recognizing that taking money out of the private sector is an expense and saps the vitality of private enterprise.
i never said any such thing.
if a business is honest and isn’t dodging its tax obligations, it will do one of two things.
1. it will take profit, and thereby take that money out of circulation, except for the purposes of garnering interest. and it will be taxed heavily. (well, that’s the way it used to be, and that’s the way it should be again.)
2. it will invest that money back into the economy by buying new equipment (or whatever it needs to do business) or giving bonuses to deserving employees.
i prefer the latter, and i imagine most small businesses do, too, since they don’t have to pay as many taxes on business expenses.
April 3, 2012 at 8:02 am #753317
kootchmanMemberI am not on the donor list. When doctors do the surgery for free, the hospital does it for free, when the transplant industry does it all for free… I might consider it. Until then… i am withholding the supply until the demand rises and my liver has a market value. Everyone else profits… I am holding out. GE tax returns were 87,000 pages long. That is 87,000 pages of congressional meddling. It paid off. Meanwhile, UPS paid an effective tax rate of over 34%…. and their largest global competitor in international shipping paid the German Government 24%. The tax code is picking the winners and the losers. Exxon/Mobil is getting the same manufacturing deductions that Starbucks gets for bagging and roasting coffee. Yet, Obama wants to pick on Big Oil… why is that. Lower the corporate rate to 25% and have GE send 20 page document in. Until you lower the tax rates, eliminate the carve outs… the bullshit goes on forever and ever. Lobbying works, presidential campaign donors get their carve outs, as do congress and local and state governments…. a two tier system and a huge bon fire on the National Mall of the current tax code will do every conservative just fine. Keep government spending to less than 18% of GDP and revenues at appx 20% and we are solvent. GE isn’t dishonest… they followed the tax code.
April 3, 2012 at 8:05 am #753318
kootchmanMemberBTY… that buying new equipment? That is the oil “subsidy” Obama is after… he thinks if the make a lot of money… they should not get the tax credits for new equipment… I think profit sharing is a great idea. Wanna trade collective bargaining for profit sharing?
April 3, 2012 at 10:58 am #753319
JoBParticipantkootch..
so let me understand this..
you insist that women give birth
whether they can afford to make sure their children are well cared for or not
and yet you think they are the ones ducking responsibility?
If you take responsibility for the decision whether or not a child will come to term
shouldn’t you take responsibility for that decision?
April 3, 2012 at 10:59 am #753320
JoBParticipantQuite frankly
the entire concept that quality life should only be available
to those who can afford it
disgusts me.
Dollars are not a good indicator of human worth.
April 3, 2012 at 12:38 pm #753321
redblackParticipanti am withholding the supply until the demand rises and my liver has a market value.
LOL. why am i not surprised?
I think profit sharing is a great idea. Wanna trade collective bargaining for profit sharing?
no, because i don’t trust businesses not to cheat, and i’d prefer that negotiation of wages remains in the hands of workers. you know, for the 7% of us that are still in private sector unions.
besides, if a business tanks, employees are screwed under a profit-sharing plan.
if a CEO is an incompetent boob, employees are screwed.
what about foreign companies operating here? would they have to share profits?
no, thanks.
April 3, 2012 at 1:04 pm #753322
redblackParticipantYet, Obama wants to pick on Big Oil… why is that.
because big oil pollutes, and our reliance on it leads us right through the straits of hormuz.
besides, they’re making record profits. they don’t need any help.
neither does big insurance or big pharma.
Lower the corporate rate to 25% and have GE send 20 page document in.
i’d agree to that if you could guarantee enforcement. no loopholes. no tax havens. no offshoring of profits while calling it a loss just to avoid taxes. no investment in china’s economy before ours.
because the statutory corporate tax rate is 34%, but the effective rate is around 16%.
so, sure thing. you guarantee me that 25% – all of it, no exceptions – with some kind of corporate death penalty for cheats – and i’ll happily agree to 25%.
20 pages? make it one page.
subtract total outlays from total income and if that number is positive, give uncle sam 25%. get caught cheating and you never do business here again. and we tax your foreign holdings double.
April 5, 2012 at 5:38 am #753323
hooper1961Memberwhere is some personal responsibility.
basically i stated is that those that choose not to purchase health insurance simply don’t get care. with reasoned risk factoring (smoking and weight) and all whom apply must be provided insurance before 2014 (no pre-existing condition exclusion prior to 2014). the hammer is no bailout by the government; you choose to not get insurance and you get sick tough.
after 2014 pre-existing condition exclusion can be reinstated. thus a window is provided for all to get health insurance!
April 5, 2012 at 6:58 am #753324
JanSParticipantthe law of the lad will be no pre-existing conditions. That’s a good thing. And, if the mandate stays, everyone will purchase insurance(or pay a fine)…so you have no worries about supporting them..OK?
April 5, 2012 at 1:06 pm #753325
redblackParticipantthe hammer is no bailout by the government; you choose to not get insurance and you get sick tough.
sorry, hooper. we on the left think this is cruel and inhumane, and it is beneath us as a country.
besides, allowing sick people to go untreated will just cost ratepayers and taxpayers more, anyway. it turns out that it’s actually cheaper to treat them than to let them get sick and die.
weird, huh?
April 5, 2012 at 10:53 pm #753326
redblackParticipantApril 8, 2012 at 2:45 am #753327
kootchmanMemberCapital goes where it gets the best returns. If that is China… that’s where it goes.
because big oil pollutes, and our reliance on it leads us right through the straits of hormuz.
No kidding… that’s why a pipeline through North Dakota et al is highly preferred. Conservatives have long ago signed off on a 25 per cent corporate tax. With no exclusions. You can;t tax income earned overseas that was already taxed by a foreign government. That is why jobs go overseas dude… Singapore does not tax you for income earned in the USA that was previously taxed. You makes NO sense with that arugument… if you produce a good in the USA… your tax burden creates a 30 per cent (or more) competitive disadvantage? The ideas is get domestic labor to produce and export… and pay income taxes. Actually even the system as is… is far cheaper than Obamacare… estimated by CBO to cost the average insured about $820…. to cover the uninsured. Better than $7000 ! Jan have you even looked at the fines? It’s $2000 per employee… add that to a huge surge in use… and we are at a coll 1.7 trillion so far… and we haven’t even seen the small companies who are going to dump their coverage… which costs them 14K per employee… in exchange for a $2000 fine? Good heavens that is a no brainer. The only ones who will get private coverage will be high demand employees… who have bargaining power. If you weight 350 lbs…and even the AMA says complications from obesity is the number one health care issue in this country…. ya don’t think your premiums should be adjusted accordingly? Get three speeding tickets and then say your car insurance should be the same as a prudent driver? Your speeding tickers were a pre-existing circumstance?
April 8, 2012 at 5:40 am #753328
hooper1961Memberredblack you can pay for my car to get fixed, someone side swiped me.
you want the taxpayers to pay for health care for those that choose not to buy insurance! there is nothing in the constitution that mandates that taxpayers pay for this and on a credit card that exacerbates the drain on future taxpayers.
April 8, 2012 at 6:19 am #753329
JanSParticipanthooper, I don’t think anyone would not buy, if the premiums were a little bit more reasonable, and insurance companies weren’t so stringent as far as pre-existing conditions are concerned.
April 8, 2012 at 11:46 am #753330
kootchmanMemberBut they don’t. And they shouldn’t have to. When I was young and bullet proof, I threw the dice and went uninsured except for catastrophic care. When I started a family, circumstances changed and so did my consumer habits. As I recall, my risk was evaluated by weight, blood pressure, and lipid counts, as was my life insurance premiums. As a then smoker, my risk was adjusted accordingly as were my premiums. I paid less as a 40 year old non smoker than a 34 year old smoker. What you all are asking is a debt laden younger generation subsidize your risk. Watch Spain… it too had national healthcare… and like us, so much debt the cards finally collapsed. They just cut national health care by 20 per cent. Our left is content to tun the economic system into the ditch… they give no thought to consequences. Why should they? It’s like the teenager who plugs their ears and shouts “I can;t hear you” over and over again. Paul Ryan is the dragon… but he is telling you the truth.. we cannot sustain entitlements at the current funding levels. Every actuarial projection will tell you that. Cruel and inhumane? You have for the most part, 45 years to plan for the last 18 months of your life when you will spend 80 to 90 per cent of your total life medical expense. Of course we will continue to sap the younger generations so they won’t have those resources under the existing plans. Selfish and foolish. Take that payroll deduction… add Medicaid and SS… that 17% of your gross income and use it for your own planning purposes… not to pay 40% to bureaucrats and their salaries. Or don’t… spend it all.. and if ya get the old coronary artery disease.. you can reminisice on what fun ya had. and read the childrens book The Ant and The Grasshopper.
April 8, 2012 at 2:31 pm #753331
redblackParticipantfor one thing, hooper, a car is a luxury. needing a kidney transplant is not.
for another thing – and for what seems like the eightieth time – you’re already paying for the uninsured with higher taxes and higher premiums. and when those people go untreated, their conditions worsen, and the cost to make them well increases.
in the long run, it’s cheaper to get everyone covered and allow them access to preventative care.
April 9, 2012 at 5:19 am #753332
hooper1961Memberor redblack the alternative stop providing care to those that failed to buy insurance!
April 9, 2012 at 6:00 am #753333
JanSParticipantyou talk about people who have failed to purchase insurance, like some people have any control over what they can’t afford, or simply can’t get, becuae they’re denied. It’s not that simple, and as an intelligent man, you should know that. Now…if you’re unintelligent, I suppose that’s the only way you see it – all or nothing..
April 9, 2012 at 12:43 pm #753334
redblackParticipantyeah, hooper. that’ll help the economy. a whole new class of employment:
corpse removal.
the new republican mantra: “ask not what your country can do for you. ask what your country can do for me.”
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