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October 2, 2013 at 4:11 am #609280
mpentoParticipantMy impression with other democracies is that when there is a log jam the government is dissolved and an election is called. Is there an option in the American system to do this? If they just stick to their guns at what point does the system step in and fix itself?
October 2, 2013 at 5:12 am #798225
dobroParticipantYou’re thinking about parliamentary democracies. We don’t have that option. We have to wait for public pressure to force the Republican hostage takers to give it up. That, and for their financial masters to realize this will cause them to lose some money and tell their bought-and-paid-for right wing lackeys to let it go.
October 2, 2013 at 6:15 am #798226
HMC RichParticipantOr Dobro, maybe the President and Senate might negotiate with the House. Maybe they will accept the ACA mandate themselves instead of keeping their elitist DC status and their own healthcare.
IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK OUR LEGISLATORS TO LIVE UNDER THE SAME LAWS AS THE REST OF US?
Funny, the President’s men will negotiate with Iran but not Republicans. If the some of the DC Press was doing their job, they would report that Republicans understand that Obamacare is the law of the land but the Democrats and President do not want to live under the law that they passed for the rest of us.
As Jeb Hensarling said… “Tonight, the House voted for a third time to fund the government and avoid a shutdown. Tonight, for a third time, the House has invited Washington Democrats to negotiate with us. At this point, it all comes down to two questions. Under Obamacare, should bosses receive a special deal their workers don’t? Should Members of Congress receive a special deal that every other American doesn’t? These are questions Senator Reid and President Obama must answer for the American people. It really is that simple.”
I am not happy about this either, but it is disingenuous to blame this only on Republicans. If both sides had done their jobs properly, there would be no need of Continuing Resolutions to allow the government to fund its programs and pay the interest on the debt.
And this is the point. The Federal Government should never have been allowed to get this big. If we citizens are really hurt by this shutdown then that means the Federal government intrudes into too much of our lives.
Another Elitist point. Even in a shut down, Senators and Congressmen get paid. http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politics/shutdown-congress-staff-paid/index.html
Another reason to get rid of most of them.
Yes both sides have drawn lines in the sand but unlike President Obama who has really never negotiated with Republicans, the Republicans are waiting for the Democrats to actually come to the table. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/10/house-republicans-wait-at-a-table-for-dems-to-negotiate-budget/
Republicans are forcing the issue but Democrats need to bend to. This is a problem for all of us.
October 2, 2013 at 6:17 am #798227
HMC RichParticipantAt least the Federal Workers will receive back pay once this fiasco is over.
October 2, 2013 at 6:38 am #798228
dobroParticipantNot a single word you said or example you gave (mostly false or misleading) changes the fact that the ACA is THE LAW. The Congress spent 18 months working on it, ultimately passing it. The Supreme Court judged its constitutionality. It’s a done deal. It’s not something the President or Senate can or should “negotiate”. If Republicans want to change THE LAW, they need to introduce bills to do so, pass them thru the House and Senate, and have them signed by the President. The fact is, they have not done that and are now endangering our economy and our country.
This “fiasco” is laid directly at their feet and most of the country recognizes that.
October 2, 2013 at 7:09 am #798229
JanSParticipantnot all Federal workers will get paid for the time they don’t work, Rich. Facts.Unless they somehow decided today.
John Boehner received a good, clean CR on Friday/Saturday. He refused to even bring it up to the House, so don’t tell me it’s just the Senate or the pres. He refused, period, because he knew it would pass. Quite a few Repub House members had claimed they’d vote for a clean CR if it had been brought up. Negotiations go both ways. Yes, the ACA is the LAW. We don’t repeal LAWS like this in this country.
October 2, 2013 at 7:23 am #798230
JanSParticipantand if this wasn’t so laughable a right wing post taken directly from right wing news today, I would feel bad for you…well, maybe I do anyway:
“Funny, the President’s men will negotiate with Iran but not Republicans.”
It’s not the first time that I saw that statement today. It was on Facebook – lol…and you are simply quoting it verbatim. You need to stop doing that and just stick to the facts.
So, let’s say the Pres. gave in and let them defund the ACA. Next time they could easily throw in we will shut down the gov’t. unless you do away with Medicare and go to a voucher system., or do away with SS…you know that’s where it could lead. We all know where it could lead. This is not how a gov’t. is supposed to be run. I’m tired of all the blame being put on the Senate and the Pres. John Boehner and the House had choices , too, and refused…simply stuck to their guns, and wouldn’t even consider keeping the gov’t. open and then talking about the ACA like adults…you know, doing the job they’re getting a ton of money paid to do.
Approval rating of Congress today? 10%.
October 2, 2013 at 1:59 pm #798231
JoBParticipantthee is a procedural possibility int he house to call for a vote of the full house.. but it doesn’t kick in for 30 days and it would require the vote of several republicans…
i am too tired and too disgusted to go look it up now.
October 2, 2013 at 2:01 pm #798232
JoBParticipantHMCRich..
A small group of House Republicans just played the adult version of i will take my toys and go home if you don’t play by my rules…
and you admire them for it?
i am guessing when your kid tries that there is no negotiation.. at least i hope not.
October 2, 2013 at 2:21 pm #798233
miwsParticipantFunny, the President’s men will negotiate with Iran but not Republicans.
I caught that talking point right away too, Jan.
Mike
October 2, 2013 at 3:26 pm #798234
wakefloodParticipantAgain, from an independent talking head, Andrew Sullivan, here’s a quote from his article yesterday:
“Those who keep talking as if there are two sides to this, when there are not, are as much a part of the vandalism as Ted Cruz. Obama has played punctiliously by the constitutional rules – two elections, one court case – while the GOP has decided that the rules are for dummies and suckers, and throws over the board game as soon as it looks as if it is going to lose by the rules as they have always applied.
The president must therefore hold absolutely firm. This time, there can be no compromise because the GOP isn’t offering any. They’re offering the kind of constitutional surrender that would effectively end any routine operation of the American government. If we cave to their madness, we may unravel our system of government, something one might have thought conservatives would have opposed. Except these people are not conservatives. They’re vandals.
This time, the elephant must go down. And if possible, it must be so wounded it does not get up for a long time to come.”
October 2, 2013 at 4:00 pm #798235
CaitParticipantIt’s funny – even Republicans I know are starting to sit up and take notice. The current batch are political grandstanders thinking they have a chance at the Presidency in 2016. You are watching a handful of people who I won’t call Republicans (so as not to insult actual thinking people who associate themselves with that party) who are hoping to make enough waves to win an election in a couple years. And they’re doing it on the backs of millions of people.
However – some folks still hold on I suppose. You know why they don’t take the ACA plans? BECAUSE THEY ALREADY. HAVE. INSURANCE. The law does not apply to you if you already have insurance. If you’re interested it seeing them do something as a gesture of good will, how about you talk to the congresspeople who are opting out of their paychecks to see this through? There are people playing ball – they just aren’t pitching it to the psychos who are in left field picking their noses and hoping that someone will notice.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee, folks. If the Republicans want to have a prayer of surviving as a party, they are going to have to tell the Tea Party to turn blue and they’re going to have to get back to their roots. After Obama completes his second term – what is going to be in their stump speeches? When they lose their scapegoat, what are they going to have left? Their principles. But what are they these days?
October 2, 2013 at 4:32 pm #798236
dobroParticipantHere comes the part where the financial masters start to get cold feet about the teabagging monster they created…
October 2, 2013 at 5:20 pm #798237
wakefloodParticipantYup, Dobro, they were always fundamentally at odds with each other save for the standard “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” gambit. They just served a convenient purpose of their paymasters, as you suggest.
The few Tea Partiers who ACTUALLY believed in a small and inexpensive Fed Gov were eventually going to run headlong into the inconvenient notion that Corporate America gets handouts from and is dependent upon said Fed Gov. Whoops!
October 2, 2013 at 6:04 pm #798238
socamrParticipantJon Stewart had the best reply to the line about the President negotiating with Iran but not the Republicans: “If the President can negotiate with the hard-liners in Iran but not the hard-liners here at home, perhaps the problem is not with the President.”
October 2, 2013 at 6:28 pm #798239
JoBParticipantwell said wakefield
“The few Tea Partiers who ACTUALLY believed in a small and inexpensive Fed Gov were eventually going to run headlong into the inconvenient notion that Corporate America gets handouts from and is dependent upon said Fed Gov. Whoops!”
October 2, 2013 at 6:29 pm #798240
JoBParticipantOctober 2, 2013 at 6:51 pm #798241
LindseyParticipantNot that HMC Rich will acknowledge his error, but…
Congress was NEVER exempt from PPACA. Like everyone else, they could keep their employer-sponsored health coverage. But then, specific language was inserted as an amendment (to appease Republicans – The Grassley Amendment) that requires Congress to shop the exchange for their plans. This means that they effectively lost their “employer” coverage through the Federal government. Whoops! That’s not what the amendment was intended to do. So, the Office of Personnel Management was all, “No, no, no, we are still going to contribute to your health care premiums like we agreed as a part of your compensation package.” So they’d get a certain amount of money from their employer, the Federal government, to shop the exchange for health plans. The Vitter amendment to the budget CR attempts to take away that chunk of employer contributions, effectively taking away his staff’s health insurance entirely. That’s messed up.
This article explains it well:
http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/grassley-frustrated-by-fight-over-his-health-care-amendment/
October 2, 2013 at 11:58 pm #798242
CaitParticipantThe point is, if these Republicans want to repeal ACA they need to go through the proper channels of repealing a law SINCE THAT’S WHAT IT IS. You cannot legally repeal a law by holding the American people hostage.
October 3, 2013 at 1:00 am #798243
oddrealityParticipantThe President cannot repeal laws. He also does not fund them.Congress controls the purse strings,make the laws.So what do they think he can do?? The congress makes laws, the President signs them.Or not. They have not been able to stop healthcare with votes as of yet so exactly what do they think the President can do for them? It is their job to modify, repeal or whatever else to our laws.
How is shutting the government down doing anything at all ? It is only helping to destroy the middle class. The sooner the tea party Republicans are gone the better off this country will be.They are despicable,stupid, humans.
I despise them.
October 3, 2013 at 1:05 pm #798244
JoBParticipantthey say this is about the ACA
if we take them at their word, we still have to ask
how does refusing to pay the expenses they already authorized strengthen their bargaining position?
all this demonstrates is a show of power by a minority of the House…
because you can is not a good enough reason to endanger the economic security of this nation.
October 3, 2013 at 4:54 pm #798245
dobroParticipantCurrent CBS news poll…
“On day three of the partial government shutdown, a new CBS News poll reveals that a large majority of Americans disapprove of the shutdown and more are blaming Republicans than President Obama and the Democrats for it.
Fully 72 percent of Americans disapprove of shutting down the federal government over differences on the Affordable Care Act; just 25 percent approve of this action.”
October 3, 2013 at 5:26 pm #798246
JoBParticipantto add to that.. the hidden gem in that survey is that only 57% of those who identify themselves as tea party affiliates approve of shutting the government down..
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