AZ Giffords shot, how do we cool the rhetoric?

[JoB]

HMCRich

show me the liberal bumper sticker that equals the open season on liberals.. no tag limit and then goes on to list where you might find liberals being liberal… so you can shoot them…

and i will conceded that both sides do it.

i saw a lot of those bumper stickers and window decals in Arizona in October.

I saw them proudly displayed in Bend Oregon at Christmas.

I see them every time i travel north or east or south from Seattle.

And.. i have seen them here in West Seattle.

You may think they are a joke…

In light of the recent shootings..

and not just those in Tucson… i don’t.

but of course you aren’t likely to be at any of the listed places or events in question…

or are you?

In a nutshell Rich…

pointing a gun at innocent heads or encouraging others to point a gun at innocent heads for no reason other than their political affiliation is hate speech.

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[JanS]

So sorry I irritated you, Rich. Yes, we can agree about civility…but not just in networks, papers, opinioned writing. It needs to start with us…in our everyday discourse..and to hold all…especially those who represent us…to that standard. And to let them know that when it doesn’t happen. It starts with us.

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[dawsonct]

Yeah, sure, it comes EQUALLY from both sides. Please point out incidents of stochastic terrorism that originated from a widely disseminated left-wing pundit or politician.

I’m not talking about some insult, or the use of an old American colloquialism, I’m talking about instances where a mainstream voice from the left used violent ideation encoded with dog-whistle terms to incite a violent reaction from a very tiny violent minority of the fringe.

—

I don’t hear from the left a constant drumbeat that the rank & file on the right hears constantly, that the liberals are ACTIVELY working to subvert our Nation and send all of us off to FEMA camps for re-education. And THAT is an example of the milder rhetoric coming from the MAINSTREAM commentators and ELECTED officials of the farright.

—

Again, familiarize yourself with the term ‘stochastic terrorism’.

Glenn Beck, et al don’t ever need to say “go get them.” They KNOW the instability of the minds of a significant enough portion of their audience are very easy to trigger.

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[dawsonct]

Hey, even some of you reasonable Republicans have proven yourselves to be HIGHLY susceptible to their language. I’m sure you aren’t arming yourselves to take out your neighbors, but when I see you repeating the SAME unsupportable rhetoric directed at YOUR FELLOW LIBERAL AMERICANS that they use to set off the more violent fringes, it is obvious that their messages of hate and division are VERY effective.

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[redblack]

cait: re: post 184:

i never asked you to denounce your membership to the republican party, or ask you not to vote for your values; nor would i ever.

i’m saying that if you truly believe that the rhetoric by the gun nuts in your party has gotten out of hand, you should contact republican leadership and tell them you don’t approve of “second amendment remedies” to political grievances. or that ignoring armed insurrectionists in the conservative camp is not a republican value. or something.

but if you can’t or won’t even acknowledge that the things that some republican pols and conservative talkers say might be considered inflammatory to the point that it incites vigilantism, then you’re in denial, imho.

i’m going to ask jim mcdermott the same thing: disown the gun lobby (and others) party-wide, and ask members not to accept their campaign cash. (even though i’m pretty sure he’s right there with me.)

i really can’t make it any clearer, but i guess the summation of my position is that – if our positions were reversed – i’d ask the democratic party and my reps to decry any violent rhetoric by any people or organizations that helped put democrats in office. i don’t condone that behavior or rhetoric, and i think it inflames people who have no regard for civility or respect for our country. it has no place in reasonable political dialogue.

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[redblack]

cait: my bad. i was just re-reading the scintillating highlights of this thread and realized that you’re not a republican. no wonder i thought you were defending them.

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[Cait]

…Yeah, most definitely not. I was really confused.

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[redblack]

well, now that i’ve beat up someone from my own side, who else wants a piece? :)

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[JoB]

redblack…

i think this notion of “someone from my own side” is a the heart of this topic…

the issue to me is a collective pass for anything anyone on “my own side” says or does.

If 10 of “us” do something.. well one of you does so it’s ok…

except in this case the justification is more like 100 or 200 or even 300 to 1…

if you take the ‘side” out of the discussion…

it should get easier to see that one is not ok.

yet… the notion that all is fair in love, war and politics persists…

the twisted notion of “fairness” that has been sold by the media and produced Sarah Palin’s blood libel remark is well on it’s way to becoming the national norm.

Are mothers no longer saying…

“i don’t care if your friends do it? It’s not the right thing to do.” ?

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[redblack]

jo: completely understood. it was a subtle attempt at humor, hence the smiley.

regarding the rhetoric, like i’ve said before, politics is a blood sport.

i’m sure that conservatives here in the forums will try to use that comment against me, but it is a colloquialism – much like “bringing a knife to a gun fight.” it’s not meant literally.

having said that, i don’t buy this whole “both sides do it” nonsense. while the shooter in tucson was motivated as much – or more so – by mental illness as he was by politics, it’s long past time to talk about the gun nuts and their influence in the ranks of the republican party. and it’s time to talk about non-violent republicans’ silence on the matter.

yes, you can come up with colloquialisms born of violent acts that have been uttered by liberals and democrats. yes, politicians and pundits on the left have said things that are abhorrent and stupid.

but the “cold dead hands” mentality is woven into the fabric of the republican party, as is the vague, insecure, and false notion that liberals want to outlaw guns.

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[redblack]

food for thought:

http://insiderlouisville.com/news/2011/01/09/confessions-of-a-gun-nut-extremist-rhetoric-is-no-joke-in-a-nation-with-unlimited-access-to-weapons/

well-reasoned and reasonable post from a conservative on the issue.

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