Home › Forums › Open Discussion › AZ Giffords shot, how do we cool the rhetoric?
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January 8, 2011 at 11:05 pm #597569
dhgParticipantAZ Rep. Giffords was seriously wounded and several are dead from a gunman with an automatic weapon. Sarah Palin has reponded by taking down her “crosshairs” map that listed Giffords.
The rightys are already claiming that this is just one eccentric guy but I lay the blame on Fox. They relentlessly hit on how Obama is a socialists who hates America and wants to destroy it and anyone who supports him (i.e. the Dems) are trying to destroy America.
The question is, How can we force Fox to cool the rhetoric and acknowledge that differences of opinion does not mean liberals should be targeted?
January 8, 2011 at 11:27 pm #713401
flowerpetalMemberdhg, tell me about this crosshairs map with Giffords on the list. I don’t know exactly what that means; but it does make my stomach churn.
January 8, 2011 at 11:44 pm #713402
funkietooParticipantHere you go:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/sarah-palin-statement-shooting_n_806224.html
Fanatic Hate Speech has to stop and logical, rational discussions about where we agree and disagree need to become the norm.
It has to start with all of us. Engage people with opinions different than yours in thoughtful discussions. Stay on point–don’t make it personal by calling names or insulting a person’s political party or position. Ask why? Ask for examples? Share your ‘whys’ and ‘examples’. We all may be surprised by the answers and solutions that may evolve from such discussions.
January 8, 2011 at 11:54 pm #713403
miwsParticipantStory from USA Today:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-01-08-giffords-bio_N.htm
Image of Terrorist Palin’s Crosshairs Map:
http://unclejimbo.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/PalinCrosshairs.jpg
(I was totally unaware of all of this, until seeing this thread)
Mike
January 9, 2011 at 12:06 am #713404
JanSParticipantand if we hear the hate and anger…call people on it…in a civilized way. If we accept it, it means we condone it. We can’t have it both ways. Many of us have been silent, because it IS just the crazies. And then the Palins of the world do things like this, and we accept it..and it means it’s OK with us. Well, it’s not. And we have to be vocal and say so.
Then there’s this kind of thinking:
“During the his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event.
“I don’t see the connection,” between the fundraisers featuring weapons and Saturday’s shooting, said John Ellinwood, Kelly’s spokesman. “I don’t know this person, we cannot find any records that he was associated with the campaign in any way. I just don’t see the connection.
“Arizona is a state where people are firearms owners — this was just a deranged individual,” Ellinwood said.”
Have a firearm, fine with me…but what the hell was the point? It simply inflames things…and it has to be pointed out and stopped. Education is everything.
January 9, 2011 at 2:02 am #713405
JoBParticipantfrom the email i received today from Alan Grayson
“But I will tell you this – if he shot Gabby out of hatred, then it wasn’t Gabby he was shooting, but rather some cartoon version of her, drawn by her political opposition”
January 9, 2011 at 3:52 am #713406
KenParticipantHer teaparty opposition in the last election used gun ranges and shops for fundraisers.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/8/934297/-Second-Amendment-Remedies-%28with-pictures%29
January 9, 2011 at 4:38 am #713407
JoBParticipanti am way too saddened by this to be nice about it.
i apologize in advance to the first fool who signs on here and says it was just some nut… because i am pretty sure i am not going to be able to maintain an even keel on this one.
I don’t feel that detached.
if you load a weapon and prime it you take responsibility when it fires…
this is the end result of the primed and loaded weapon that that kind of rhetoric produces.
a nine year old child died today.
a public servant had a bullet put through her brain.
this has ceased to be even vaguely amusing.
January 9, 2011 at 6:12 am #713408
jamminjMemberSadly, with all the fear, hatred, and vitriol that’s been going on for the past two years, with candidates ranting that a 2nd amendment solution might be needed’, ‘don’t tread on me’ – ‘lock and load’ – ‘armed and dangerous on this issue’ – ‘having a revolution every now and then is a good thing’ . . . the unfortunate incident that has happened today, in an already trigger happy state, was inevitable.
January 9, 2011 at 6:35 am #713409
bailecyclistParticipantTolerance is a basic American values. This means that we put up with those whose views we find wrong. It’s vital to our basic freedoms and liberties. Those who scream about the need to return to basic values should include this one, and drop the hate speech, the gun analogies, the rope analogies, and the hysterics about taking back the country.
January 9, 2011 at 7:42 am #713410
CaitParticipantYou know what – temperance needs to start somewhere. The time to temper our reactions and quit with the rhetoric was clearly long LONG ago. Hell, it can stop here and now. We don’t have to make this tragedy about what the conservative media did, we don’t have to give them that power or stoop to that ridiculous of a level… offer condolences, be aware of our reactions, and vote carefully. Period.
As much as it’s easy to say that we’re too angry to react to this with temperance, it has to start somewhere, so start here. It’s a tragedy, it doesn’t HAVE to be a political act. You can believe it is but it takes someone with a serious mental problem to kill anyone for any reason, be it political or not. If everyone, including the media, took this stance in response to every ridiculous thing done in the name of politics we’d all be a lot better off. Think about it – people were shot today. It was tragic. It was during a political event. Do we HAVE to point the finger of blame and speculate about what makes a crazy person do crazy things? What does that really help? Fighting crazy with crazy makes us all slightly unbalanced.
Just learn to recognize crazy. There’s a lot of it going on out there and you don’t have to respond to it. Is posting a map with targets on it a stupid and insensitive (perhaps dangerous?) thing to do – yes. And Palin knows it is. If people would have quit giving her the attention that it takes for her to thrive, we’d be rid of her by now. But, now that she’s everywhere – what do we do? Be the first person in the chain to stop with the inflammatory statements and quit playing the game. Period.
January 9, 2011 at 3:07 pm #713411
SmittyParticipantGood Lord, can we have at least 24 hours before the MSM blame the Tea Party/Sarah Palin/Gun Control circus ensues?
I thought after Ft Hood we were all supposed to “not draw conclusions” on motive despite the fact that the guy yelled “Allah Akbar” before opening fire?
Double standard?
Here is a screen shot from a KoS posting that has since been removed (go figure). Just imagine if this post had appeared on a right wing web-site! Where is the outrage? Where is Krugman?
Communist Manifesto is not high on most right-wingers reading list.
The deceased Judge was a Republican for goodness sake.
This is a horrible tragedy and to jump on this as an opportunity to blame the Right is despicable.
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx40/mmatters/ZZ1A85EB91.jpg
January 9, 2011 at 4:40 pm #713412
redblackParticipantit doesn’t matter whose party this guy belonged to. he’s a terrorist, plain and simple, and he should be prosecuted under the PATRIOT act (since it hasn’t been repealed.)
anyone who advocates murdering public officials, “second amendment remedies,” or “a little revolution,” for political grudges is a terrorist and a traitor, regardless of his political stripe.
January 9, 2011 at 4:58 pm #713413
valvashonParticipantSmitty-
Are you seriously thinking that “gun control” will even be mentioned in the news coverage of this? It won’t be and isn’t discussed in coverage of any incidents of this type. The right to bear arms only exists as part of a well regulated militia. People suffering from mental health issues are not part of a well regulated militia and shouldn’t have guns. There is no reason for most of the general public to have guns. What you won’t hear in the mainstream media discussion of this incident is how dangerous guns are to the owners and others around them, not to mention how dangerous they are in the hands of the mentally ill. You will also not hear how the mentally ill were turned out on the streets by the Reagan administration, a practice basically continued by all subsequent administrations. As long as we close community mental health services, we will continue to experience these types of incidents. I’m tired of posting this every time there’s some type of mass shooting.
Val
January 9, 2011 at 5:06 pm #713414
JoBParticipantSmitty…
i would be more than happy to look at this as the act of just another mentally unbalanced person if I didn’t turn on my television daily to find idiots cheer-leading for violence all in the name of partisan politics.
it wouldn’t take much time to pull a list of violence specific quotes out of the ether.
When a VP candidate for the United States (and possible presidential candidates) advocate violence against anyone who disagrees with them from their political podium…
acceptance of such rhetoric has gone way to far.
Sarah’s condolences ring pretty false in light of her cross-hairs map…
what on earth was she thinking?
and quite frankly.. what on earth are the people who support that kind of rhetoric from their candidates thinking?
It’s ok.. they didn’t mean it.. only a madman would follow through on it…
The ugly truth is that unbalanced people have taken that kind of rhetoric to heart and have acted upon in… and that the incidences of that kind of violent follow through are increasing.
You can dismiss each act as that of a lone mad man.. but when a pattern develops .. as has here…
condoning the type of rhetoric that produces these acts of violence legitimizes them.
That makes you culpable.
January 9, 2011 at 5:07 pm #713415
JoBParticipantCait
the last time this kind of insanity gripped our nation creating a string of political assassinations the public outrage was a catalyst for change.
But to create that kind of change requires outrage… a lot of outrage.
January 9, 2011 at 5:22 pm #713416
AdmiralJanewayParticipant“We have met the enemy, and he is us.” – Pogo
January 9, 2011 at 5:40 pm #713417
SmittyParticipantJoB,
You don’t even know this guys political beliefs/affiliation yet. How on earth can you justify the MSM blaming talk radio and Sarah Palin right out of the box? Have they no shame?
Is KoS to blame too? I see you didn’t comment on that post that he took down?
What about Ft Hood? We were all told to not rush to judgement or jump to conclusions? Why the double standard? The guy yelled Allah Akbar for god sakes!
It’s ridiculous to even argue about this lunatics politics already.
Read this and comment:
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/01/09/the-shame-and-hypocrisy-of-cnn/
January 9, 2011 at 5:56 pm #713418
dhgParticipantSmitty: I started this post asking to cool the rhetoric. It has gotten out of hand. Fox News hammers on Obama as a socialist who hates America and hates free enterprise. 50 yrs ago television like this would not have an audience but today there are literally millions who believe what Fox tells them. The right wing radio and right wing TV say the most ridiculous, hateful things about liberals and it has escalated to “liberals hate America, liberals are out to destroy America”. When you pound that into the heads of millions of gun-toting tea partiers, something’s gonna happen.
January 9, 2011 at 6:14 pm #713419
SmittyParticipant“When you pound that into the heads of millions of gun-toting tea partiers, something’s gonna happen.”
So you are saying it is a FACT that this guy is a right winger and listens to Rush, watches Fox and loves Sara Palin? Wow, good news sources, dhg!
If these are not FACTS about THIS shooting then I think you are guilty of adding to the rhetoric and should tone it down until we know actual FACTS!
Were you so quick to judge after Ft Hood? Probably not. Why the media double standard between the two? No less than 24 hours after each we are told two, completely different things.
After Ft Hood: Please don’t jump to conclusions.
After Tucson: It’s Sara Palin’s fault!
This is ridiculous, but not unexpected.
January 9, 2011 at 6:37 pm #713420
dawsonctParticipantFrom what little I have gleaned about the gunman, ALL politics aside, is that he was not emotionally stable. Why do we keep allowing people like this to obtain firearms?
I don’t want to restrict gun ownership to American citizens because of the emotional instability of the few, but I DO see the value in ensuring that the emotionally unstable in our Nation don’t have easy access to firearms.
The fact it is easier to obtain a weapon than mental health services in our Nation is simply illogical, and could ultimately prove destructive to our society.
Is every system perfect and infallible? Of course not, but 100% success is NOT what our threshold should be to decide the efficacy of our initiatives.
January 9, 2011 at 6:42 pm #713421
dobroParticipantReally big on “facts” today…hmmm.
Didn’t know you read Daily Kos-here’s some facts regarding your false equivalance jpeg…
We can certainly wait to find out more about this guy but whatever we find out doesn’t negate the fact that hate speech has consequences and, if you actually read the article you cited and this followup I posted, you can see that it is not hate speech.
Unlike the idea of pasting gun sights over your opponents district on a map and then coming out today with a patently ridiculous statement that “they’re not gun sights, they are surveyor’s marks” No one is dumb enough to buy that,are they?
January 9, 2011 at 6:51 pm #713422
hooper1961Memberno one deserves to be shot for their political beliefs or anything for that matter.
sara palin is the best thing that has happened for democrats and would do everyone a service if she simply got lost in the alaska tundra.
dawsonct is correct allowing emotionally unstable to purchase a gun is plain stupid.
January 9, 2011 at 6:53 pm #713423
SmittyParticipant“Didn’t know you read Daily Kos-here’s some facts regarding your false equivalance jpeg…
Unlike the Left I actually do listen to the other side. 1090 in the morning and Maddow at night. NPR in between. Can you say the same, or are you just so darn sure you are correct that it would be a waste of time?
False equivalence, my butt. The guy used the word DEAD in a post about the Congresswoman who was eventually shot.
January 9, 2011 at 7:18 pm #713424
dobroParticipantha ha ha…smitty, you kill me…uhhh, I meant to say you’re dead wrong about that…uhhh, that didn’t come out right…
The phrase the guy used was “dead to me” a common colloquial phrase inserted into the language by comedians in the last few years…kind of like the phrases I just used. you really think that’s the same as hate speech?
And, just curious, do you actually believe the words of Palin’s spokesperson that the map symbols were “surveyor’s marks”?
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