A Message to All Forum Users

[Patrick]

For those of you who don’t know me, I am Patrick Sand, Tracy’s husband, co-publisher, sales guy, and the public face of The West Seattle Blog. As some of you know she is currently at the University of Minnesota speaking about neighborhood blogging at a journalism conference. She will return this weekend. Until then I am the moderator for the forums.

As many of you are aware I am not a regular here for reasons which will become apparent in a moment. My own background with the give-and-take of online discussions stretches back to the days when the Internet was a text-only medium. Over that time I encountered any number of trolls, attention whores, and no end of people who have no respect for Godwin’s Law. Back in the day I was known to track down such violators and reduce them to tears. I have it on good authority that I was successful on many occasions.

I am not saying this to dampen your enthusiasm for the forums. We have a great many good and lively commentators and writers here. More importantly some of you have banded together to do good deeds in the community. Tracy and I marvel at your fundraising efforts and your organization skills. Please note that when I talk to other people who maintain neighborhood blogs they are deeply moved by what you’ve done. As such we think that it is our responsibility to make sure the forums are a place where you can continue to grow as an online community.

But in the past couple of weeks there have been some posts which have lead the two of us to believe that there might be users who are up to no good. As some of you know we went through this a couple of months ago. That’s why I am posting this.

The sheriff’s out of town but she left me the badge.

This is not my first time at the rodeo and my bar is set much lower for what constitutes shenanigans.

I am not saying this to keep the geeks, dweebs, and dorks away from the popular kids’ table at lunch. I am saying this because innuendo, idle gossip, and unfounded conjecture have real consequences – consequences which would be leveled at Tracy and myself first and foremost. It would be an awful thing to see your hard work raising money for people in need turn into something that was little more than a fleeting memory because we had to close up shop.

Until Tracy returns this weekend- should you see anything unusual here or suspect something’s amiss please contact me at 293-6302 or salesguy@westseattleblog.com.

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[Ken]

Yo Patrick.

It is your rodeo and you set the rules. Don’t be shy about it :)

Also note there are tools for the lesser issues of comment spam and auto posters. You might be able to chase it all down now but as the site grows you might need these in the future.

http://www.tamba2.org.uk/wordpress/spam/

I am experimenting with various plugins for some neighborhood sites with the goal of reducing maintenance to a minimum.

I am also a vet of fido and usenet flamewars and blogs don’t have the common carrier status that protected / aggrivated the wasteland they became at times.

Good Luck :)

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[add]

There is a great article in the recent Vanity Fair (no, not on Angelina Jolie) about the development of the internet, it’s part of their Oral History series. All about the early days of Arpanet and Usenet and into the current.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/07/internet200807

It was really fun & interesting to read – I didn’t know about most of the early development days, but do consider myself as somewhat of an early adopter. I used the AOL message boards and actually BOUGHT STUFF over the internet in 1994!

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[Anonymous]

What was it that was going on? I read this everyday but I guess it has gotten a lot bigger with the addition of the forums that one can’t notice everything. Could someone enlighten me? Just curious.

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[GenHillOne]

wsblover – a lot of times, one can only read between the lines if it isn’t an obvious offense of the “rules.” Remember that WSB sees things that the rest of us don’t (emails sent to them, suspicious ISP ids, etc.). Not only do they have the right to protect their livelihood, but from their track record, I trust that they do so fairly. Perhaps someday they’ll blog a tell-all of some of their more outlandish experiences :)

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[charlabob]

It’s amazing what people do, aside from litigation, to get revenge. The New York Post (yet another tool of right wing hack Rupert Murdoch) has published the full address, including Apartment Number, of Keith Olbermann — because they don’t like how Olbermann mocks Bill O’Reilly.

They started out by threatening NBC and (GE?) its parent company. (Keith is on MSNBC). Now they’ve taken the direct approach — go to Keith’s house — here it is — and stalk him.

If a so-called reputable corporation does that, imagine what random crazies, who send mail saying, “I know where you live,” might do.

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[beachdrivegirl]

I am so naive….

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[ellenater]

charlabob, that is crazy! I do get a kick out of Keith’s worst person, Bill Orally segments, even if he does seem a little fixated. Murdoch is nuts.

As far as on here, I don’t have the slightest idea what any of this is referring to but promise to do my part to…um…ya, be a good blog citizen?

In all seriousness, this is a great blog. Very unique, at least form what i’ve seen!

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[bcollins]

The rodeo reference is insensitive to animals. Please remove those postings. ;)

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[inactive]

i don’t get it either.

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[Ken]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon

=8)

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[TheHouse]

“I am saying this because innuendo, idle gossip, and unfounded conjecture have real consequences – consequences which would be leveled at Tracy and myself first and foremost.”

Management tip #492: It does absolutely no good to chastise or threaten the majority when one or two individuals may be causing harm. Address the individuals that are causing issues directly and be specific or else the majority is going to sit there and look at you not knowing what the hell you’re talking about.

We don’t know what you’re talking about, mang.

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[Anonymous]

I don’t know if I’m allowed to talk about it, but….

I don’t want anyone to be thinking everyone else knows what this is referring to except them.

Basically, to make a long story short, there was a poster on this forum (I think they actually had a couple different handle’s) who was trying to start things. Would post ridiculous things and became VERY nasty VERY quickly.

We all called that person out and they subsequently were deleted from the forum. After, that, from what I can gather, this person made personal threats to the owners of this blog.

This particular person, I am told, is on several different forums throughout Seattle and causes that same havoc.

We don’t want this person on this forum and the management are doing their absolute best to keep that from happening!

Thank you, WSB!!!!(Patrick and Tracy)

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[JanS]

NR…thanks…House…understand now?

Rule #1…don’t dump on the blog owners ;-)

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[Rasmus]

Basically, when commenting on a blog or posting in a forum, I always try to see myself as a guest in someone else’s house (although a virtual one). If someone is being obnoxious or worse, they should be shown the door. That’s what I would do, if I were the host.

Every online community attracts trolls and flamers, but the upside is, that it’s a sign that this is a thriving place. Otherwise, they’d find other places, where they could get more attention (which is usually all they want).

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[Shibaguyz]

No clue what you are talking about… if someone is bugging you, get rid of them. I guess it’s your blog so you can say/do whatever you want. I just sounds like you are making a generalized statement to all of us. FYI, most people don’t respond well to threats.

Oddly enough, I find myself agreeing with House once again. LOL

It really doesn’t do any good to come on and make a broad, sweeping statement to all of us as if we were children who should be put in our place. It is obvious that the majority of us respect and love the work that is done here on the WSB. I just find it hard to believe that someone “in charge” has just come on here and made threats to the entire community.

JanS – I don’t know if NewRes is the spokesperson for the management of the blog or not. I’m not sure if this incident NR is talking about is what prompted this threatening post or not. I get it: don’t dump on the blog owners. How about this, don’t invite people into your “house” then threaten them.

Sorry… for some reason this really ticked me off. I thought these forums were about being able to express yourself. I get it to not be abusive to the owners but I think it is abusive to get on here and threaten everyone in a general statement. Guess I, like the majority of people, don’t like being threatened.

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[GenHillOne]

Shibaguyz – I wouldn’t take it personally. I see Patrick’s post more as a reiteration of the WSB rules and tolerances for particular behaviors. I don’t know if this is part of what’s going on now (not a spokesperson), but for example, a particular point that has been made in the past is that it is unacceptable for individuals to log in under multiple screen names and fan the flames. Some even misrepresent themselves completely – an inherent risk of the medium anyway.

I’m sure there are attempts to deal with such individuals behind the scenes and this is just another way to cover the bases. I don’t take it as a threat because I don’t do that. Either do you – do you?! ;)

You’re right, 99% of folks here have great input, whether one agrees or disagrees. Hopefully, the OP will put the 1% on notice that they are being monitored. Personally, I don’t like being snookered by someone posing as something they’re not. Too much of that and people might not communicate as openly as they do now. And, for the record, I think the need for attention through online trolling/flaming is a bit pathetic and creeeeepy…

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[charlabob]

SGz, I can empathize — I don’t actually know why I didn’t have the same reaction but, for some reason, I figured WSB-folks had been threatened once too often.

Since I have no idea what situation really precipitated the OP, I have to say the thread about Admiral Pub would have made me very nervous if I had any legal liability for this stuff.

I can’t imagine the blog owners would have legal liability for trolls in general, no matter how annoying. Accusations directed at a business (or a specific teacher) might be a problem.

I was accused by another poster of “stalking” — though I didn’t realize it until a couple of people pointed it out to me. (I can be a little dense.) I worried endlessly for a couple of days, then decided, “Screw it — I didn’t do it!” If I were a business, faced with the same accusations, I would probably have reacted differently.

My story about “I know where you live,” threats: Before the internet, someone actually threw a rock through my window (when I lived alone in a big old spooky house in Massachusetts.) Attached to the rock was a note saying, “Charla, I know where you live.” I know I should have been terrified – but I couldn’t stop laughing at the obviousness. Lessee–you threw a rock through my window with a note, addressed to my somewhat unique first name — I might be smart enough to assume you knew where I live — now what?” That was the last I heard of it.

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[WSB]

Patrick’s still the sheriff for a few more hours as I am catching a plane home in early afternoon. However, I do want to say via wi-fi from the lobby of the college dorm where I’ve been bunking, that it’s really important that you all trust that he had a good reason to say that. You have no idea what we deal with off the site but related to the site, and you should not have to have any idea – it’s our problem and we now make a living (we’re almost “in the black”) doing that, in hopes of having a place where you all can come initiate these amazing conversations, and where we can serve you with the home page (and other sections’) news and information. But there is an element not just of liability but also personal safety risk, and trust me, we’ve already dealt with that too. Thanks again to you all for your participation, support, amazing conversations and energy directed not just toward and “on” WSB but also in making West Seattle a better place overall — can’t wait to get back home, although the sun is trying to make an appearance here in MN … TR

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[charlabob]

Make the plane turn around, TR — the sun isn’t even trying here. Congrats on being almost in the black (or almost being in the black.) I’m sure you know that’s a major modern miracle. :-)

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[JimmyG]

I don’t see a threat at all in what Patrick posted. I get the feeling some of you are overly sensitive to his laying out the facts of the situation as regards the forum portion of this blog. It’s not your right to know all of the behind the scenes things that may happen in the moderating of the forums.

If any of you are unhappy with how this place is moderated you are free to go elsewhere or start your own WS forum or stay here and post under the rules of what is a private business.

Just like any business that posts a sign which says “no shirts, no shoes, no service” the owners of the WSB can allow or disallow anyone they wish. And they can lay down any rules they like.

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[Jiggers]

Jimmy you said it, “overly sensitive” is right.

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[Anonymous]

I was actually trying to enlighten those who did not know what the relevance was to Patrick’s post.

His post was NOT threatening (unless, I guess, you’re doing something on here you’re not supposed to be doing).

No, Shibaguyz, I am not a “spokesperson”. Again, I was trying to help people understand. Sorry you couldn’t see that and, instead, choose to focus on how offended you are.

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[k]

if you wouldn’t say what you are posting in person, don’t post it. i use that as my gauge. many folks create a different persona online. it’s their way to vent etc. this blog should be about being yourself and treating the blog owners and fellow forum users with respect. i am glad that this has been brought to everyone’s attention. there is no threat here, it was simply a statement by the people who work around the clock to create what has become the finest blog in our city!

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[Ken]

I know what Patrick was talking about, though more in the general than the particular.

I have always used the internet as my own name even when working as the “abuse” address for a large ISP. This has led to some interesting phonecalls and even a confrontation or two.

I enjoyed them more when I was a bit younger and no family to be responsible for.

That might have something to do with my somewhat odd (for a Democrat) belief in the equal weight of all the amendments in the bill of rights including the 2nd amendment. :)

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[Author]

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