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[DP]

#701615

DP

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JoB, I’m having trouble matching up what you’re saying with what I’m saying . . .

My main point is that good people are going to be hurt by this mosque, “prayer room,” or whatever you want to call it. (There’s also going to be a 9/11 memorial there by the way which, ironically, may be part of the problem.)

You, like dobro, seem to believe that everyone who feels the way I do on this issue is in on some kind of conspiracy . . . But why don’t you address the AP article I linked or the comments that the American Muslim guy made?

I’ll give you a tip on how to argue your position, on this or any other topic. And I mean this in the most sincere way, because I want to continue having interesting debates with you:

1. Avoid using terms like “hate mongering,” “inflammatory comments,” “invented controversy,” “careful orchestration,” etc.
2. Don’t spend a lot of time talking about your opponent’s motiviation.
3. Try to discern as soon as possible whether it’s facts you and your opponent disagree on, or rather interpretation of the facts.
4. If it’s facts you disagree on, go out and get better, or more credible, facts than your opponent has. Establish the credibility of your sources as quickly and strongly as you can. Don’t try to discredit your opponent’s facts or sources until you’ve already established some of your own, and then try to discredit your opponent’s facts —only as a last resort.
5. If it’s interpretation of the facts that you disagree on, argue accordingly, but try to keep an open mind throughout, because interpretation of fact is much more variable than questions of accuracy or relevance.
6. Use sarcasm and hyperbole sparingly, and only for effect.

Example of how you should be making your case on this:

It’s a prayer room, not a mosque, David. It’s part of a much larger commercial project. It’s only going to be X x Y square feet. It’s not going to have a dome. It’s not going to be visible from GZ, etc. This is information New Yorkers aren’t aware of.

You know, I think people are getting bent out of shape over this. Some people [not you, David] are using this to bash Muslims, and that worries me a little.

Example of how you should not be making your case:

What’s your game, DP? What’s wrong with you? Don’t you understand the facts of this case?

I’m open to having my mind changed on this, JoB. In fact, I almost had myself convinced of the other side for a second there . . . But you’re going to have to come up with something better than “you’re part of a conspiracy” to make that happen.

So go ahead and be tough on my arguments.

Just watch what you say about my chupacabra.

—David

 

 

P.S. dobro Can you include an excerpt from your salon.com piece? You don’t have to put it in a blockquote box; just wrap it with quotation marks, so we’ll know it’s a quotation. Anyway, pick one fact or quote that you think is really valuable, and if it seems intrigueing, I’ll drop in and check it out. The thing about “hating the Bill of Rights” is clever, but it’s only going to work for people who are already on that side of the fence. Thanks.

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[DP]

JoB, I’m having trouble matching up what you’re saying with what I’m saying . . .

My main point is that good people are going to be hurt by this mosque, “prayer room,” or whatever you want to call it. (There’s also going to be a 9/11 memorial there by the way which, ironically, may be part of the problem.)

You, like dobro, seem to believe that everyone who feels the way I do on this issue is in on some kind of conspiracy . . . But why don’t you address the AP article I linked or the comments that the American Muslim guy made?

I’ll give you a tip on how to argue your position, on this or any other topic. And I mean this in the most sincere way, because I want to continue having interesting debates with you:

1. Avoid using terms like “hate mongering,” “inflammatory comments,” “invented controversy,” “careful orchestration,” etc.
2. Don’t spend a lot of time talking about your opponent’s motiviation.
3. Try to discern as soon as possible whether it’s facts you and your opponent disagree on, or rather interpretation of the facts.
4. If it’s facts you disagree on, go out and get better, or more credible, facts than your opponent has. Establish the credibility of your sources as quickly and strongly as you can. Don’t try to discredit your opponent’s facts or sources until you’ve already established some of your own, and then try to discredit your opponent’s facts —only as a last resort.
5. If it’s interpretation of the facts that you disagree on, argue accordingly, but try to keep an open mind throughout, because interpretation of fact is much more variable than questions of accuracy or relevance.
6. Use sarcasm and hyperbole sparingly, and only for effect.

Example of how you should be making your case on this:

It’s a prayer room, not a mosque, David. It’s part of a much larger commercial project. It’s only going to be X x Y square feet. It’s not going to have a dome. It’s not going to be visible from GZ, etc. This is information New Yorkers aren’t aware of.

You know, I think people are getting bent out of shape over this. Some people [not you, David] are using this to bash Muslims, and that worries me a little.

Example of how you should not be making your case:

What’s your game, DP? What’s wrong with you? Don’t you understand the facts of this case?

I’m open to having my mind changed on this, JoB. In fact, I almost had myself convinced of the other side for a second there . . . But you’re going to have to come up with something better than “you’re part of a conspiracy” to make that happen.

So go ahead and be tough on my arguments.

Just watch what you say about my chupacabra.

—David

 

 

P.S. dobro Can you include an excerpt from your salon.com piece? You don’t have to put it in a blockquote box; just wrap it with quotation marks, so we’ll know it’s a quotation. Anyway, pick one fact or quote that you think is really valuable, and if it seems intrigueing, I’ll drop in and check it out. The thing about “hating the Bill of Rights” is clever, but it’s only going to work for people who are already on that side of the fence. Thanks.

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