51 Replies to "METRO: How West Seattle service will change starting June 6th"

• Colleen May 27, 2015 (12:25 pm)

  I have so much hope the C line afternoon will be better. I also have little faith it actually will.

• Twobottles May 27, 2015 (12:42 pm)

  So we in North Admiral (and consequently, Alki) see very little improvement. Except for a small sliver of time weekday mornings, there’s still no way to get to the stadiums or downtown without at least one transfer. I was hoping for a restoration of either the 55 or 56 to a full time route.

• TF May 27, 2015 (12:48 pm)

  Any additions to transit are a good step forward in this strangely car-obsessed progressive city.

• Mickymse May 27, 2015 (12:49 pm)

  Do keep in mind that ridership has increased on the C Line every time Metro has made service changes… and, in some cases, there’s not much they can do. If everyone wants to leave work Downtown and hop on the bus at 5pm or 4:30pm, there’s only so many buses they can run to pick up people.

• Jon May 27, 2015 (12:54 pm)

  ^Second this comment

• cj May 27, 2015 (12:55 pm)

  Improvement of the C would be great I agree but … it would also help if some of the extra buses were not butt up behind the one just before them. I tend to see one maxed out bus and right behind it an almost or completely empty one. Shrug, maybe they all get off before they get to the Junction? Also I have an injury slowly healing from my purse strap getting caught on a pole that had been unscrewed and left split open. Yanked me off my feet and wounded the nerve under my arm pit. They need to check the back more maybe but it was making enough noise. Tired overworked drivers?

• Sue May 27, 2015 (12:55 pm)

  I thought the C line was *already* running every 7-8 minutes in rush hour. How is this improvement different? (The rest of it *is* an improvement, which is good.)

  As a 55 rider, I’m excited about extra trips. Hopefully they’ll space them out a little better.

• JanS May 27, 2015 (1:02 pm)

  Two Bottles…agree. I guess they figure we all have cars here in North Admiral, since it’s the “upscale” neighborhood…(yes, that’s sarcasm)

• Diane May 27, 2015 (1:03 pm)

  I’m with you Twobottles; I have to pay the extra $60 on my car tab next week (for a 20 yr old Toyota; same as owner of Jaguars/Mercedes; not equitable taxation) but get nothing for it in Admiral; 3 yrs ago Metro took away our 24-hr full service 56 that I could walk to any time night/day; and completely deleted the 51, there was a stop in front of my building
  ~
  now, with these meager improvements, nearly zero for Admiral, I still have to drive to the junction bus stops; or as you say, 2 buses (up to an hour) to get downtown; and yet, politicians (Mayor) are bragging about all the service being added; well, when you take away nearly all of our bus service in Admiral 3 yrs ago, and charge us now $60 on car tabs to add back 5% of what was taken away, some of us have longer term memory, and vote

• Mary May 27, 2015 (1:20 pm)

  I’m with Twobottles re: access to anywhere from North Admiral. I work at the UW and there is no way to make it there in a reasonable amount of time.

• Alan May 27, 2015 (1:24 pm)

  I find the wording on the 125 curious. Does “on the weekends” mean that we will get back Sunday service? If not, they should have just said “Saturday”.

• anonyme May 27, 2015 (1:42 pm)

  No improvements for Arbor Heights. Nothing unusual there.

• jno May 27, 2015 (2:07 pm)

  Right. Service hours are being deployed where demand is highest. Ridership is (and has been) low in North Admiral and Arbor Heights outside of peak hours.

• Diane May 27, 2015 (2:18 pm)

  ridership is low in Admiral because they took all our buses away

• D Del Rio May 27, 2015 (2:22 pm)

  I live I Arbor Heights. I definitely will not vote for the car tab increase again. I absolutely get nothing in return.

  • WSB May 27, 2015 (2:23 pm)

    Please note, as mentioned in the story, another round of changes is due in September. I don’t know whether Arbor Heights, Admiral, or any other area of concern is included, but this is *not* the entirety of what the funding is paying for.

• Colleen May 27, 2015 (2:24 pm)

  So the 56/57 was supposed to be part of the June “improve on-time reliability” improvements but I haven’t seen specifics on that. Do we know anything more? metro even lists it on the updates for June, but not specifics on what that means.

• miws May 27, 2015 (3:12 pm)

  Alan, from what I have seen in previous details from Metro (which I can’t find right now), they will indeed be restoring Sunday service on the 125, as well as restoring 30 min, up from the 45 min, Saturday service.

  .

  Mike

• cj May 27, 2015 (3:41 pm)

  I honestly do not understand why there isn’t a North end rapid ride already.

• Twobottles May 27, 2015 (3:53 pm)

  Way to deflate my righteous indignation, Tracy… I was really enjoying it ;-)

• jno May 27, 2015 (5:09 pm)

  They took all your buses away because ridership _was already_ low in Admiral.

• wsBorn&Bred May 27, 2015 (6:27 pm)

  Any idea what this means? “City of Seattle funding will also help improve on-time reliability for the following routes (including, West Seattle-related): 21E, 37, 55, 56, 57, and the RapidRide C & D lines” As a frequent user of some of the aforementioned unreliable lines, I am very curious.

• Norad rider May 27, 2015 (6:46 pm)

  If Metro is not going to run more buses on routes 56/57, the least they can do is have all of the buses be articulated buses. The 57 is too crowded when it leaves the Admiral District.

• Thomas M. May 27, 2015 (8:37 pm)

  C is critical. With all those new people in the Junction looking to get on, the buses are going to look like Jitneys in India. They are already packed. I am happy I get on well before the Junction.

• metrognome May 27, 2015 (10:00 pm)

  cj — the Admiral area (if that’s what you meant by ‘north’) won’t have rail or RapidRide for the same reason the monorail didn’t go there — not enough density to justify the expense. The RR C & D lines, which were in a package approved by county residents who voted, mimic the original monorail route from Crown Hill to Morgan Junction. IF ST3 includes rail to WS, and IF the package is approved by voters in the ST catchment area (most of King, Pierce and Snoho county voters), you *might* see improved bus links to WS rail stations from Admiral … in 20 – 25 years.
  .
  http://www.soundtransit.org/About-Sound-Transit/Taxing-district

• MOVE Seattle May 27, 2015 (10:01 pm)

  I don’t read anything about Metro restoring the cut back service on routes. I only read ‘added’, not ‘restored’ the service. If Metro restored or preserved service, that might be better PR. I voted NO on the $60 license tab fee. Metro said they need to preserve service but they are hiring & training new drives and buying new buses…seems like ‘adding’ to me and not preserving or restoring. Next they will need more tax money again to keep going or the public will be threatened again!

  • WSB May 27, 2015 (10:07 pm)

    MOVE, we always include links so people can look for more info if they want … if you follow the link to this:
    .
    http://metro.kingcounty.gov/up/sc/rideralert/2015/june/route-revisions.html#funded
    .
    the words “added, restored or revised” is taken from that page.

• themightryrabbit May 27, 2015 (10:02 pm)

  Agree the C is critical. But on my non bicycling days to downtown from 35th and Avalon if I get on a C I become a sardine. Started switching to the 21 or 50 slow boats as sometimes even I would like to sit down instead of being a skittle falling down for an emergency stop. I treasure the bicycle riding days because that’s a guaranteed seat albeit with extra effort.

• Alan May 27, 2015 (10:57 pm)

  @Mike – Thanks! I hope that is the case.

• metrognome May 28, 2015 (2:59 am)

  MOVE – I think you’re splitting hairs re: the difference between ‘add’ vs ‘restored’ or ‘preserved.’ Also, when service is cut, either trips or routes, drivers are laid off; when Metro adds or restores service, they need to hire drivers. There is also a fair amount of turnover from the PT to the FT ranks (Metro only hires PT drivers.) And Metro buys new buses on a regular basis as fleets reach retirement age; some of this is based on federal funding as well as guidance on average fleet age.

• anonyme May 28, 2015 (6:37 am)

  jno, how do you determine ridership is down in Arbor Heights when there is so little service? You can’t use what you don’t have. The reason ridership began to decline in the first place was that service was poor or erratic. Drivers were cutting off the AH loop and taking longer breaks, something that was well documented over several years. It’s a Catch-22.

• r fowler May 28, 2015 (8:46 am)

  Alki is still forgotten.

• Urbanista May 28, 2015 (11:13 am)

  My suggestion, since North Admiral got utterly shafted in recent service changes and RR C is getting more runs, is to have the RR C buses serve the park and ride that is under the WS bridge, then get back on near the fire station. Yes, it will fill up fast, and add a few extra seconds to the RR C line but in the scheme of things, it is a no brainer. And, folks could connect from the 37, 50, etc. under there.

• M May 28, 2015 (12:11 pm)

  If you already had a seat on the 37, why would you get off to get on RR C? If you’re on the 50, why would you keep going past the Junction (or 35th and Avalon) to transfer to RR C under the West Seattle Bridge?

• chrisj May 28, 2015 (12:24 pm)

  Agreed with other commenters that getting to UW and the north part of town is generally just bad. Even under the best conditions it takes at least an hour and often close to two, the worst driving conditions makes it forty five minutes. It’s crazy that both the C and 21 turn into routes for Ballard area, but nothing goes north elsewhere.

• jno May 28, 2015 (12:54 pm)

  anonyme, I didn’t say ridership was down in AH, I said it was already low [before any of the restructures]. Metro collects stop-level boarding and de-boarding data. Bruce Nourish at Seattle Transit Blog requested them for several routes and put together analytic posts like this (though not for the 21): http://seattletransitblog.com/2011/11/11/ridership-patterns-on-route-37/ I’m sure you could get your hands on the route 21 data if you’re really curious. Also, the service guidelines are available at http://metro.kingcounty.gov/planning/
  .
  My guess is that ridership was never very high on the AH loop in the off-peak, service issues aside, for the simple reason that there is no high-demand destination there. It’s wasteful to run a frequent, all-day bus service to a place that few people want to go throughout the day. Peak demand met the service guidelines which is why the 21X is still routed there.

• West Seattle since 1979 May 28, 2015 (1:13 pm)

  Chrisj, you can always transfer to routes that do go farther north!

• M May 28, 2015 (1:27 pm)

  Chris, you’re just about a year away from being able to take any bus that goes to SODO or Downtown and transferring to Link to UW.

  Also, the 21 becomes the 5 which does not go to Ballard. In fact, it’s a core north end route running along Greenwood which connects with the 44 to UW, 48 to Green Lake/UW, 40 to Northgate and finally ends at Shoreline Community College.

• Kathy May 28, 2015 (7:51 pm)

  This “no density” argument against getting more frequent service in Alki doesn’t wash. It has been high season for tourists and visitors from other parts of the region coming here all Spring due to the great weather we’ve been having. Because public transportation is so inconvenient here, many of them swarm the neighborhood with their cars, circling around the blocks looking for parking. Another point is that Alki is actually one of the denser neighborhoods in West Seattle. So why low ridership? Infrequent and inconvenient service, I say. Much faster getting places by car. An off peak transit trip to downtown will take 40 minutes minimum by public transportation, 15 minutes if you drive. At the very least, Metro should increase service here from April to October to accommodate “tourist season”. A few restricted car days on Alki Ave SW along with increased public transportation service would get the message across that there are other ways to get in and out of this neighborhood than by car.

• Lon May 28, 2015 (10:39 pm)

  Diane:”I have to pay the extra $60 on my car tab… but get nothing for it in Admiral”

  Not directly, no, but more buses and more bus riders elsewhere means you’re competing with fewer cars on the road.

• anonyme May 29, 2015 (7:12 am)

  Agree with Kathy. One of the reasons ridership decreased in AH was inconvenient and utterly unreliable service.

  It’s been mentioned before, but a couple of WS-only shuttles would be a great solution for some of our under served areas. The Route 22 seemed to have more riders when it served the 35th corridor in Arbor Heights instead of Shorewood.

• jno May 29, 2015 (9:34 am)

  Alki is a dense strip but there’s very little walkshed to support frequent transit, so more people on the strip would need to use it than in other neighborhoods where more people can walk a few blocks. And it’s exactly that attitude – “much faster getting places by car” – that is responsible for low demand (and therefore low supply). You’re not going to get added service by not using the service you already have.

• Admiral California June 3, 2015 (4:08 pm)

  I’m sorry, that’s ridiculous. It’s like a restaurant owner refusing to improve the food in his restaurant until customers start eating all the lousy food first.
  —
  Of course ridership would go up in Alki, Admiral, and Arbor Heights if transit service were a more viable option for getting to and from the rest of the city. It’s not that people there don’t want to use transit. It’s that they can’t. Three trips a day, or whatever, means that if one bus doesn’t show up (as sometimes happens), you might be stranded all day.
  —
  Nobody, no matter their “attitude”, is going to rely on a system that bad unless they literally have no other choice. But I’m sure that won’t stop the scolds from lecturing those neighborhoods that they are insufficiently virtuous to deserve transit service. That’s so much more satisfying than engaging with the actual problem.

• Kathy June 4, 2015 (12:57 am)

  jno,

  Alki neighborhood is not just a “strip”. There’s a huge “walkshed” along Admiral Way and multi unit dwellings replacing single family homes at a brisk pace. Yet we will continue to have only hourly bus service on Sundays and after 9 PM everyday. Ditto Water Taxi on weekends and off peak hours – 1 to 1.75 hour frequency, if the shuttle and the boat actually connect. To get downtown off-peak and weekends is a roundabout trip with many stops to arrive at the Alaska Junction and wait time for the transfer to the “Rapid” Ride. You would be very lucky to make it downtown in 40 minutes, more likely 45. It really pains me to see so many people from this neighborhood choosing to drive downtown or using their SOV to go a mile or two up the hill for shopping and errands, I usually use a bike and trailer myself. But the level of transit service we have been reduced to is not conducive to getting people to leave their cars at home. And it is downright offensive to people who cannot drive or choose not to drive as a matter of conscience.

• me June 4, 2015 (7:52 am)

  Off topic, but I promise it relates: Years ago, an employee of the ferries asked the scheduler why there was a three hour lapse in service between ~12:30 and ~3pm even though boats and crew were available and sitting at the docks unused. The scheduler, completely serious, said, “there aren’t enough cars lining up to take the boat at that hour, its too expensive to run the boat for 1 or 2 cars, so we wait until people arrive. The employee (a close friend of mine) said, “You publish a SCHEDULE. Why on earth would people line up for a boat that they know is not leaving when they can drive around rather than wait?” The scheduler paused and said, “Oh.” Soon after the ~1:30 runs started on a trial run. I no longer have friends at the ferries, but I guess there are enough cars on the dock now… that run has been in service since 2010.

  Sometimes people need to be hit over the head with the obvious.

• AMD June 4, 2015 (8:15 am)

  I recall reading an FAQ from Metro a year ago (maybe more) asking about “restoring” previously cut routes and service. The answer basically said don’t hold your breath. Once a route is cut, it’s off the radar. They look at service improvements based on what they already have running and only adding additional routes through the same process they would use to have added a brand new route way back when before they started cutting. I wish I could find a link to that FAQ, but that’s basically what convinced me to give up having more than commuter service in AH.

• EKS June 6, 2015 (9:45 am)

  I agree with everyone else who says more service for Admiral and Alki. They pretty much cut off bus service downtown at 5:30pm and it’s impossible to even get downtown if you’re not a commuter. There’s plenty of density in Alki and Admiral – just as much or more than down by Lincoln Park or Morgan Junction where the C line runs through.

• jno June 6, 2015 (2:21 pm)

  I’ll retract what I said about Alki’s walkshed (it is significant on the western end) and acknowledge that Admiral Way is getting denser, but the most dense parts of the neighborhood still are concentrated on or very close to Alki Way.

  Nonetheless, density is relevant only to the extent that it influences demand. The C Line also goes to the WSF dock and terminates at Westwood Village, and ridership demonstrates demand throughout the day and into the evening on the tail end of the route. Ridership on the 37 and 55 showed that demand in Alki was not nearly as strong back when service was more frequent. Use it or lose it — it’s really that simple.

• AdmiralSDV June 8, 2015 (12:31 am)

  It would be nice to have additional peak service, but I’d rather have weekend service restored so we can get directly to the stadiums or downtown.

  Also, I really hope Metro didn’t slash my 56 based on route 37 ridership data. jno, I’m really not trying to pick on you, but you clearly don’t ride our route or you’d see why you’re getting backlash from the 56/57 crowd. Reduction of peak service and the elimination of our direct access to downtown on the weekends was pretty difficult to get used to.

• Alki56er June 8, 2015 (9:29 am)

  This morning the #56 leaving Alki at 6am – usually right on time – was 15 minutes late.

  And now I read:

  “City of Seattle funding will also help improve on-time reliability for the following routes … 56,…”

  So, no increase in #56 service and today it was even 15 minutes late

• admiralDon June 8, 2015 (12:23 pm)

  Anyone know why 128 can’t go down to seacrest and the water taxi? seems like a good way to avoid some of the bridge rush. This never made sense to me.

  Don

Sorry, comment time is over.