86 Replies to "WEST SEATTLE LIGHT RAIL: Final Environmental Impact Statement out early"

• Joe Z September 12, 2024 (1:28 pm)

  Lots of information in there, but the cost increases are likely to be the headline. It will be interesting to see if the board decides to go with a cheaper alternative (skipping Avalon Station saves $400M) or pulls the funding from other ST3 projects. 

• Charles Burlingame September 12, 2024 (1:29 pm)

  The Urbanist has pointed out that costs are $1.1 to $1.5 billion more than the 2023 cost estimates. Tough choices ahead.

  • Jason September 12, 2024 (2:43 pm)

    Imagine if we started this right away after the vote instead of doing Seattle Process crud. Would have been cheaper.

• Jason September 12, 2024 (1:44 pm)

  I LOVE this rendering of the bridge for the train. As well as the elevated portions in Delridge, the traffic is so so so bad right there and I cannot wait to ditch my car for train here. The bus is constantly fighting car traffic on the C and 21.

  • Jethro Marx September 12, 2024 (2:55 pm)

    I hope your commute improves but that bridge design is criminally boring. Put a bird on it or something.

    • 1994 September 12, 2024 (10:08 pm)

      Haha, maybe a couple of colorful birds, and a wooden Danish troll (like from Lincoln Park) sitting on one of those arches below the train deck :)

• bill September 12, 2024 (1:46 pm)

  Some useful links in the EIS: The docs are searchable PDFs. To see if your property is affected by any of the alternatives, search Appendix L for your address.  https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/documents/14a-WSLE-FinalEIS-AppendixL-supportinginformation-part1.pdf  The Alternatives are laid out in the Executive Summary: 
  https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/documents/0-WSLE-finalEIS-executive-summary.pdf 

  • adree-rose September 12, 2024 (2:28 pm)

    the link doesn’t work for the affected properties (appendixL)

    • sam-c September 12, 2024 (2:53 pm)

      If you copy that into a browser, delete everything after .pdf and it should work; delete ‘&nbsp’

      • adree-rose September 12, 2024 (3:14 pm)

        did that. still doesn’t work

        • Bbron September 12, 2024 (3:51 pm)

          https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/documents/14a-WSLE-FinalEIS-AppendixL-supportinginformation-part1.pdf and https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/documents/0-WSLE-finalEIS-executive-summary.pdf

  • bill September 12, 2024 (5:35 pm)

    Thanks BBRON for removing the invisible characters. The blog does not play well with my browser. 

• Salal September 12, 2024 (2:00 pm)

  What a waste of money 

  • 98126res September 20, 2024 (4:16 pm)

    Agree.  ST overall project cost has doubled in SIX YEARS.  It will keep going up.   Save our money and years of awful destruction/construction for a ridiculous redundant short 4 miles already covered by metro.  West Seattle can be smarter and literally work with and develop existing commute options.  Thank you.

• MrWest September 12, 2024 (2:11 pm)

  No thank you, a West Seattle Light Rail is not wanted. Thanks but no thanks! 

  • Foop September 12, 2024 (2:24 pm)

    I want it. Thanks!

  • Elizabeth Self September 12, 2024 (2:28 pm)

    I also want it. Thanks! 

    • Brad Garf September 12, 2024 (2:45 pm)

      Same here, also. Thanks!

  • Jason September 12, 2024 (2:43 pm)

    Lightrail is VERY WANTED. You do not speak for us!

    • Anne September 12, 2024 (2:55 pm)

      You don’t speak for me either. Total waste of money.

      • Samantha September 12, 2024 (4:42 pm)

        Too much avocado toast, Anne. Just make toast at home and then the light rail can be funded    

    • PDiddy September 12, 2024 (4:53 pm)

      They certainly speak for me. We could invest in dedicated no car bus lines like in the netherlands at a fraction of the cost. This is expensive, wasteful and not wanted by any of us where they want to route it. Dont need it dont want it. Im tired of inflated msrp taxes on my car.

      • Jason September 12, 2024 (6:08 pm)

        PDiddy…. The Nederlandse Spoorwegen in Netherlands is expansive AND they do bus only lanes. They do BOTH. And we can aim higher than cars.

      • Movedfromdelridge September 12, 2024 (7:11 pm)

        Amsterdam has buses, extensive  tram (which is similar to light rail) AND a subway. 

      • Bbron September 13, 2024 (12:00 am)

        that “inflated msrp taxes” on your car is just getting you closer to the true cost of building and maintaining car infrastructure. far too long have cars been subsidized. the old adage of “if all you’ve experienced is privileged, equality will feel like oppression” holds true for car ownership. heads would spin if car drivers actually had to pay their fair share.

    • Alki resident September 12, 2024 (7:19 pm)

      You certainly don’t speak for the thousands of people that don’t want it, won’t use it or need it or voted for it. It’s overpriced and you know it. 

  • Genesee5Points September 12, 2024 (2:49 pm)

    Same here, also, too… Thanks!

    • Joshua September 12, 2024 (3:25 pm)

      I thought we already voted on this?

  • Walterego September 12, 2024 (3:21 pm)

    I also want it, it needed to arrive yesterday. 

  • Peter September 12, 2024 (3:42 pm)

    I want it very much. ST and the city need to coordinate on options for speeding up construction. 

    • sam-c September 12, 2024 (4:22 pm)

      Very much looking forward to light rail in West Seattle    

  • Arbor Heights Resident September 13, 2024 (12:37 am)

    A west Seattle light rail is wanted and needed!

  • Gregn September 13, 2024 (10:21 am)

    You are welcome to that as your personal opinion, but I think basically everyone disagrees with you.

• Jessica September 12, 2024 (2:34 pm)

  Does it say anything about the fate of the swimming pool at the health club? I hope it can be avoided.

• Genesee5Points September 12, 2024 (2:48 pm)

  Perfect in every way… Fire up the dozers, let’s start construction yesterday!  

  • Anne September 12, 2024 (2:56 pm)

    Good luck with that-ha!

  • Scarlett September 12, 2024 (3:53 pm)

    This is used car sales pitch dressed up in urbane bureaucratic “planning-speak.”  None of the major pitfalls and pie-in-the-sky  assumptions were addressed – because they they don’t have any answers – and the attempt to make this is a benefit to the low-income was particularly laughable.  It’s a piece of infrastructure fluff for the affluent neighborhood West Seattle has become over the past several decades. And after you all have had your novelty joyride when it arrives, the reality will sink in. 

    • Al King September 12, 2024 (4:30 pm)

      But Scarlett don’t you read the comments here? People that want it DO NOT CARE how much it costs. They have given ST a blank check and said spend whatever you want, we’re happy to pay whatever you charge and we promise we’ll NEVER question your spending.

      • Samantha September 12, 2024 (4:46 pm)

        Al King, we just have different values for you. That’s why we vote, and there were more of us.    

      • Alki resident September 12, 2024 (7:21 pm)

        Well said King

      • Bbron September 12, 2024 (11:55 pm)

        how much scrutiny did you give the cost of the bridge repairs? the viaduct street resurfacing? or are those “necessary” when public transit isn’t?

    • wscommuter September 12, 2024 (9:20 pm)

      Ahhh … that’s a new one.  Class warfare in the guise of light rail.  I’m sure the military industrial complex is actually behind it all and all the rich people and … stuff … 

• Jason September 12, 2024 (3:14 pm)

  This is what we will never see again as a train commuter! Cannot wait!

  • Al King September 12, 2024 (4:36 pm)

    Jason. What do you base this on? Is this what ST is guaranteeing?

    • JustSarah September 12, 2024 (5:02 pm)

      “as a train commuter.” Yeah, if you’re on the train you’re not sitting in gridlocked traffic. Pretty obvious, I’d say. 

      • Scarlett September 12, 2024 (8:08 pm)

        A billion-a-mile line that displaces people and businesses and pumps thousands of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere during construction, all for handful of people who will beat the traffic – for a couple hours a day?  Riders mostly poached from bus transit?  Good grief, people, listen to yourselves.  

        • Another One September 12, 2024 (10:05 pm)

          Just wondering if you’ve ever lived in a place with an expansive subway/light rail system, like NYC or DC or Europe or Mexico City, etc. Or spent any amount of time in a place like that and used public transportation. Those systems took a lot of money, land, and time to build. And I’m sure they didn’t start out with hundreds of thousands of riders. If you know what it’s like to get around a big city with a system like that, then you know why we’re excited. 

        • Bbron September 12, 2024 (11:53 pm)

          was trying to get to Cap Hill this last Tuesday evening around 6, and the congestion on Delridge north of Hudson resulted in the bus crawling its way all the way to 3rd Ave more than doubling the typical commute time when it isn’t congested. would’ve gotten there much faster if I had an opportunity to get on the light rail at Delridge, transfer at SoDo and be in Cap Hill without traffic impacting the commute so much. but “poached” bus riders is apparently a bad thing. can’t have those commuters getting to where they need to in a timely manner!

  • Tomas September 13, 2024 (1:44 pm)

    Actually if they keep cutting costs and stations this is exactly what you’re going to see…No Avalon station means the buses going down 35th won’t be able to do drops offs up and down 35th.   So a ton of traffic is going to pile up on poor old Delridge (which already got a road diet to 1 lane either direction in many sections), with people trying to get to the station AND trying to get onto the bridge.  Can’t anyone foresee that if you vote something in and then wait years to build it, it’s going to cost more?  Why is everyone surprised that the costs are going up dramatically?  Everything is going up dramatically.  Folks need to realistically pencil in the inflation delay costs instead of imagining best case scenerios.

• T Rex September 12, 2024 (3:17 pm)

  So how many riders per day justifies this horrible idea for West Seattle?If you like the pics above and think it is cool, I hope you VIEW that from your home and HEAR it every single day. And don’t get me started with the wonderful folks who stay on our buses right now and the other trains in the wet and cold in the winter. They are coming to West Seattle. I will read about all of you train lovers from The Lone Star State! Yee. Haw. 

  • Bbron September 12, 2024 (4:05 pm)

    Bon voyage!

  • OneTimeCharley September 12, 2024 (4:06 pm)

    Bye. Have fun. <huggs>

  • Allhat September 12, 2024 (4:24 pm)

    Lived in Texas.
    Youawl’ll need much
    good luck.

  • Another One September 12, 2024 (7:12 pm)

    LOL do you think that’s a flex? Wow I’m soooo jealous you get to live in a place where you have to drive for two miles just to get out of your subdivision. Eight lanes on each side of the freeway sounds like paradise to me!

  • Arbor Heights Resident September 13, 2024 (12:40 am)

    Have fun with Texas traffic, you will HEAR it and SEE it every day while we ride the train here

    • Bbron September 13, 2024 (12:32 pm)

      this comment reminded me when I stayed in Huston between the 288 and the 69 😂 I tend to be able to get to sleep with noise around me, but that was a whole ‘nother level

• Eldorado September 12, 2024 (4:33 pm)

  Can we ask Elon for a cupplä billion?

• PDiddy September 12, 2024 (4:55 pm)

  I wonder on the existing light rail how many users actually pay. Last i heard it was less than ten percent. If they are not financially viable we should quit dumping money into it unless they agressively enforce payment and start making money. This is just a massive money pit IMO.

  • WSB September 12, 2024 (5:13 pm)

    46 percent per this
    https://www.soundtransit.org/get-to-know-us/news-events/news-releases/sound-transit-moves-to-flat-link-light-rail-fares-boosts

    Full recent financials report fwiw
    https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/default/files/documents/quarterly-financial-performance-report-2024Q1.pdf

  • PYimby September 12, 2024 (7:56 pm)

    It’s a public service! Why should it be expected to be profitable? Do we expect roads to make money? Fire stations? Public schools? Why is public transit any different?

  • Bbron September 12, 2024 (11:47 pm)

    Roads and highways are also massive money pits that never even get close to recovering the amount of capital needed to build and maintain them, and they are the most heavily subsidized  public infrastructue. alas, the focus there is always on tolls being too high and that car drivers shouldn’t have to pay more, but for some reason public transit is held to a much higher level of scrutiny when it comes to farebox recovery… make it make sense.

  • Arbor Heights Resident September 13, 2024 (12:50 am)

    Good idea, and while we’re at it let’s put a toll gate on the West Seattle Bridge! I bet fewer than 10% pay the fee to cross right now. It is not financially viable. It’s a very unprofitable money pit, let’s aggressively enforce payment and start making money!

    • Lucas September 13, 2024 (1:42 pm)

      People just wouldn’t pay it. Why bother? You can commit 8 felonies and not go to jail, so why follow any laws?

      • Arbor Heights Resident September 13, 2024 (9:21 pm)

        You’re missing the point pretty hard 

  • WS Guy September 13, 2024 (6:26 am)

    Roads are not profitable but are funded by gas taxes.  If only 46% of users paid their gas taxes then roads would be an underfunded money pit.

  • Jason September 13, 2024 (9:00 am)

    Literally every highway is a money pit. What kind of a comment is this? Come on now… such bad faith. This is just anti-transit rhetoric. 

    • Scarlett September 13, 2024 (10:34 am)

      Such a lame tactic to label anyone opposed to this piece of infrastructure pork as “anti-transit.”  I probably ride public transportation far more than anyone on this thread. 

      • Bbron September 13, 2024 (12:29 pm)

        I would be a contender of “commenter that rides the most public transit”. we could compare ORCA card histories if you’d like. I think it’s an equally ungenuine tactic for you to assume you’re the “most frequent transit rider” here.

      • Arbor Heights Resident September 13, 2024 (9:35 pm)

        Scarlett, you are inserting yourself in here- nobody called you anti-transit. Nobody asked you if or how often you ride public transportation. Jason was not calling you or anyone else who is opposed to this specific project anti-transit. He was responding to the idea that transit needs to be “profitable”, which IS anti-transit rhetoric, because road infrastructure is never held to the same absurd standard. As someone who assures us that they are pro-transit, surely you agree, regardless of your feelings about this specific project. 

  • Bbron September 13, 2024 (2:46 pm)

    90% of riders not paying is wild to think about, because 100,000 people a day are recorded riding the light rail via payment, so that would mean there’s actually 1 million riders a day (which I guess would mean the Link is more of a resounding success!). Sorry for the paywalled link to Seattle Times, but this was the most recent article that I found that touches on it (link) where it says ST last year estimates 55% of riders paid, but that doesn’t take into account for those younger than 18 that don’t have to pay. Recently, 84% of people confronted by the Fare Ambassadors had paid. And in the past before the pandemic ST estimated that 95% of people paid (which also contributes to pre-pandemic ridership data being seen as higher than it is now). Another consideration: those that skip fares that are homeless or low-income would more than likely qualify for free fare anyway if they went thru the process to get a card, so they’d still be non-paying riders. Like I alluded to above, even in the case that a significant number of people aren’t paying, it actually gives more support to the utility of the Link as transit as ridership numbers are actually higher than reported.

• Platypus September 12, 2024 (10:45 pm)

  Wonderful to see the pics and bring the design to life. I can’t wait to ride it!

• anonyme September 13, 2024 (6:40 am)

  The vote was quite a few years ago, and it has been widely acknowledged that this project was sold on a lot of falsehoods – including (and especially) costs.  This could have been done without truss bridges and the mass destruction of businesses and neighborhoods, but Seattle seems to like projects that are either exorbitant and impractical, or doing nothing.  Usually the latter, which tricks voters into jumping at boondoggles like this one because at least they’re doing ‘something’. 

  • Arbor Heights Resident September 13, 2024 (10:47 am)

    It’s so puzzling to me that you call the Link a “boondoggle”. It’s a proven system which is heavily used already and is expanding rapidly. And “mass destruction”? This is a train, not a hydrogen bomb 😂

  • WS Res September 13, 2024 (10:25 pm)

    “it has been widely acknowledged” = “many people are saying”

• Meeee September 13, 2024 (7:11 am)

  Just waiting to see if it’s going to be run down 40th Ave SW or 41st Ave SW by the Alaska Junction station.   Our house is directly in the path depending on which route is selected.   I am for light rail coming here BTW even though my home may be upended for this project.  

  • k September 13, 2024 (10:54 am)

    Do we have a timeline for when final routes will be released?  We’re in the same boat.  Just want to know sooner rather than later for planning purposes 

    • WSB September 13, 2024 (10:58 am)

      They won’t be “released” – the board discusses and votes. No date set for that yet but it wouldn’t be before the October board meeting (October 24).

      • k September 13, 2024 (11:13 am)

        Thank you! This is helpful

• Dave September 13, 2024 (12:18 pm)

  Based on the big cost increases, removing the Avalon Station makes the most sense to me–it’s less than a mile from Delridge and Jefferson stations.

  The good news: We’d still have two sweet LR stations!

  From what I can make out in the doc, the DEL-7 + WSJ-6 route is the only way to accomplish that.

  • Joe Z September 13, 2024 (2:36 pm)

    Yes, and interestingly the delta in ridership from dropping Avalon is only 100 per day. So it is assumed that riders would simply divert to one of the other stations. I

• Gaslit September 13, 2024 (4:30 pm)

  Don’t know what’s more amusing. The apologists for this disaster that will bleed money until it suffers the same fate as the last monorail project or the people who voted yes to this and thought that government would be an authentic agent to oversee and complete the project. It’s pure comedic theatre at this point. 

  • Arbor Heights Resident September 13, 2024 (5:23 pm)

    Sound Transit has been rolling out expansions to the system on a regular basis lately. With that track record it’s ridiculous to proclaim that WLSE is doomed and over before ground is even broken.

• KK September 19, 2024 (4:43 pm)

  And now, the Seattle Times is reporting that the costs have again ballooned- to close to 7 BILLION DOLLARS?! And I read in the Urbanist Op-Ed that with 27,000 added ridership would equal a cost of $227,000 per rider!?!? Anyone want to try and justify this cost? 

  • WSB September 19, 2024 (4:51 pm)

    That figure (actually potentially $7.1 billion) was presented at today’s Executive Committee meeting, which I’ll be writing about this evening.

    • CarDriver September 19, 2024 (5:06 pm)

      WSB. In your later article can you publish what ST’s original cost estimate (and completion date) was. I’ll also be curious to read if ST can-or will say it won’t go over the $7.1b or if it could soar past that.

      • WSB September 19, 2024 (6:16 pm)

        Oh, that’s likely going to be the lead line. On point two, no, I don’t believe they’re guaranteeing no further increases, as one cited factor is simply the passage of time. And keep in mind that the $7.1 billion estimate is for the current “preferred alternative,” while the board could certainly decide to approve a cheaper alternative …

Sorry, comment time is over.