CRIME WATCH FOLLOWUP: First hearing for teens accused in Monday night rampage

Rhonda December 19, 2023 (11:56 pm)

Well, that’s a bit of good news.

Blane December 20, 2023 (7:11 am)

That’s a nice change. The city is going to hold them for more than the typical day or two.
- WiseWoman December 22, 2023 (6:39 am)
  
  The normal hold time is 72 hrs for any crime so if persons who committed crimes without a weapon have been charged then typically let go in 1day. The law about teens is the same but more due diligence is done when any gun is involved as well as before teenagers get sentenced to life as their stupidity is not a fully formed brain and deserve scrutiny before taking them out of society as a normal adult would due to all the high conviction rate overturned in kids who commit crimes.
Derek December 20, 2023 (9:46 am)

Kids put in jail is never “good news”
- Jeff December 20, 2023 (9:55 am)
  
  In abstract I might agree that better options could theoretically (but don’t currently) exist, but in choosing between jail and released to guardians, specifically for these kids, I’ll take jail.
- Alki resident December 20, 2023 (10:10 am)
  
  Kids with guns risking your life isn’t good news. They don’t give a crap about you. Why are you showing how to coddle a teen?
  - Pauline December 20, 2023 (3:43 pm)
    
    They are 14 and 16! It ain’t about coddling but in need of services…mentorship! Not everyone has the tools to figure alternative ways to approach hardships!
- Wes December 20, 2023 (10:26 am)
  
  In this case it is. Keep them off the streets instead of the crime spree we have endured for the last several months/years
- Shanti December 20, 2023 (10:30 am)
  
  Repercussions for crimes committed is always good news. They have been terrorizing this neighborhood. They need to face consequences for their actions.
- Question Authority December 20, 2023 (11:17 am)
  
  Those kids did violent crime historically done by adults, not shoplifting a candy bar so now they get to be treated as adults for playing in the big leagues.
- s December 20, 2023 (11:33 am)
  
  Derek – Here’s the official American Medical Association Child Development good news scale: Normal kids > Carjacking kids in jail > Carjacking kids out rampaging in public with guns and 90 mph stolen cars
- CarDriver December 20, 2023 (11:54 am)
  
  Derek. Are you willing to look the victims in the eye and tell them that?
- LawnOrder December 20, 2023 (12:00 pm)
  
  Of course its good news – if the kids are a danger to society. We all have to live in the real world. And when you have people of any age with no regard for the property or safety of others, they need to be removed. And it’s good news when they are. Sure it would be nice not to have people behave like this in the first place; but they do, and should be punished accordingly. And yes, there is a rehabilitative element as well, but punishment is part of the equation as well.
- Kravitz December 20, 2023 (12:01 pm)
  
  Pretty sure their victims would disagree with you.
- ltfd December 20, 2023 (12:35 pm)
  
  When committing felonious acts of violence, youth should be jailed. Good job SPD.
- Also John December 20, 2023 (7:06 pm)
  
  Kids with guns being put in jail is great news. Much better than having them on the streets with guns…..or do you not care about your family?

simon says December 20, 2023 (4:41 am)

They better get charges. Outrageous that 14 and 16 year olds are doing such heinous acts. And driving a vehicle? I bet none of these youngsters have even had Drivers Ed training. How scary. Punish them now. If there’s currently no consequences, they’ll surely continue on with this dangerous behavior.

Ice December 20, 2023 (9:49 pm)

Statistically speaking, after being punished (IE, tortured by our legal system, put into a prison where gangs can recruit them, and then subsequently being unable to reintegrate into a society that they hate and feel victimized by) they are very likely to commit the same types of crimes that put them through this in the first place. I bet the victims are overjoyed to know that in 10 years when these kids are let out of prison, they will be full blown monsters.
- Resident December 20, 2023 (10:06 pm)
  
  Well, at least we get 10 years without them on the street committing crimes and terrorizing our neighborhood.
- LawnOrder December 21, 2023 (10:31 am)
  
  Let’s get this straight – they victimized society, not the other way around. They preyed on people who were minding their own business and doing nothing wrong. They targeted people going to see Christmas lights for goodness sake. Full blown monsters? They’re already there – that ship sailed. Sad it was at 14 and 16, but they made their choice – and yes, they had a choice – and now need to pay for it and be removed form civilized society.

HoneyBun December 20, 2023 (4:42 am)

Christmas in the clink. Sounds like a great idea for three minors who think they are all grown up bad asses. Have fun boys.

Mike December 20, 2023 (5:47 am)

“And assuming they’re charged, that’s when we’ll find out more about them, such as whether any of them have records.” They might be sealed though, https://leg.wa.gov/JointCommittees/Archive/JRS/Documents/Oct132011/SealingJuvRecords.pdf

Thomas December 20, 2023 (7:22 am)

No way should these three be released. When juveniles commit heinous crimes .They need to be tried as adults.

WSDAD December 20, 2023 (8:02 am)

14 and 16. Wow. It’s sad that these kids ended up like this.

Rick December 21, 2023 (8:57 am)

When I was 14 I was just learning about girls and cars. That was more than enough grief.

Deterrence December 20, 2023 (8:21 am)

Two 14 year olds & a 16 year old which is bad but these aren’t outliers, this is becoming the norm. Parents??? Caregivers??? Social workers??? especially if they’ve had previous convictions (they’re “in the system”).

This is a failure on many levels … parenting, peer groups, schools, social workers, justice system, state legislature.

I’ve said this before, what is the deterrent for convincing a 14 or 16 year old to STOP carjacking, STOP robbing pedestrians, STOP robbing a 7-11? What is the deterrent???

You can not do nothing … you can not lock them up for life … it’s somewhere in between (said in-cheek).

Will we ever know why? December 20, 2023 (12:56 pm)

I agree the system(s), be they family, community, schools, and/or others probably should have seen this coming? Hard to believe kids were in School regularly (90% of time) and did this behavior. It is not a school to prison pipeline if they are not in school. It would be interesting to see aggregate (privacy protected) data on school attendance and Kibg County juvenile incarceration. Becca’s bill is a joke if ignored or not addressed in other ways. Since these are minors, who else is responsible? If adults are negligent, are they also liable? We need solutions that address core issues and catch problems earlier. Will we know what signs these kids were signaling to family, schools and/or others so we can address them and prevent future tragedies? Would love to see indepth investigation of data points and histories so we can learn, improve, and prevent. Glad nobody died this round!
- Brandon December 20, 2023 (1:55 pm)
  
  School doesn’t replace parents roles no matter how hard people try to force it.
  
  Loving and raising your kids right isn’t a class warfare thing or generational arrogance people try to make it either. This isn’t some new revelation, but it is an evidently assaulted one. Infuse morals and values passed down generations and kids wouldn’t lack them today. Period. No wheels need to be invented no systems need to be modified, the tools are already there. We just can’t pawn off that responsibility then act like we don’t know what’s wrong. It’s like asking why we tripped on a shoe we didn’t tie.

Alki resident December 20, 2023 (8:23 am)

Constantine and Manion are planning to close the youth detention center permanently by 2025. They have a “vision zero” for youth detention, and plan to turn the space into a community center. This means they will go to diversion and home monitoring. They are already well on track to complete this, which is one reason why we are seeing so much crime by teenagers. Here’s the link from King County: https://kingcounty.gov/en/legacy/elected/executive/constantine/news/release/2021/october/07-cfjc-strategic-planning-proviso-report

Jeff December 20, 2023 (9:06 am)

I hope there’s a punishment that does not involve jail, if they are indeed guilty. I never want to see kids put in cages. Jail has never ever deterred “Crime” in 100+ years. Crime continues even after you lock up a huge percentage of people. I’d like to see more restorative justice.

Admyrl Byrd December 20, 2023 (8:08 pm)

Perhaps you could make a substantive suggestion as to what “more restorative justice” looks like in this case? Are we talking about giving them a free car and a scholarship? It’s really easy to espouse alternatives to jail with fancy terms but show me what they are and where they worked….doubt it’s any better.A few years scared straight sounds like the only way to get there. Keeping them in jail until they’re true adults may be the only way to keep the rest of us safe.
- LawnOrder December 21, 2023 (10:34 am)
  
  Restorative justice? These kids laugh at that concept and call you a sucker. They don’t care about other people and nothing other than real consequences will resonate with them.
McGruff December 21, 2023 (11:46 am)

Jail deters crime very well. When a criminal is in jail, they’re not committing crimes. That sounds like a win to me. ‘Restorative Justice’ is an interesting concept, but I think it’s horribly oversold, with the proponents exaggerating how many cases where RJ is a viable alternative to incarceration. These kids were old enough to know the difference between right and wrong, and they chose Wrong. Removing them from Society may not be great for them, but it’s definitely in Society’s interest. You can’t ‘fix’ everyone; sometimes you just have to isolate the troublemakers. What I would suggest is bringing back the ‘ABC After School Special’ and do dramatizations of kids who ruin their lives by making bad choices, and show these films to kids in school. If you can’t be an inspiration, at least you can be a warning to others.

When I was a kid in 1960s Atlanta, my Mom would drive around and point out the chain gangs, warning me that that’s where I’d end up if I didn’t behave. I took that lesson to heart and have had a very good an prosperous life. Thanks Mom!!!

Alki resident December 20, 2023 (9:14 am)

Could you all please fill the court room with your presence so you can take a stand against these criminals? We have to show how serious this is. I truly do not care how old they are at this point. It’s obvious we’re going to continue to see these ages perform dangerous acts against us because they think police aren’t going to chase, and they’re just going to be sent home to mommy. They must be stopped before they kill someone. I’d be very happy to be there but I’ve been sick.

TJ December 20, 2023 (10:22 am)

Well jail might not be good news, but it is definitely earned and necessary here. Maybe not jail for minors shoplifting, but these 3 have decided to commit serious big boy crimes that were also premeditated. What are the alternatives to jail? What is “restorative justice”? It doesn’t seem to be working now with the huge uptick in youth crime. Or let me guess, it’s something not being done now but is some fantasy

Admiral Mom December 20, 2023 (10:34 am)

Meanwhile we have a group of middle schoolers constantly terrorizing pedestrians, bus riders and business owners all an over West Seattle. They are known to many of us, and their parents are well aware of they are doing. Even law enforcement know about their antics. But here we are.

East Coast Cynic December 20, 2023 (10:53 am)

I wonder if the parents of these teenagers are obligated to show up in court when they are charged with crimes, particularly first degree robbery? They should have to if they are not. They should take responsibility for such behavior and deserve the shame for dereliction of duty in not raising law abiding citizens.

WSB December 20, 2023 (11:43 am)

I don’t know if they’re “obligated” but generally according to the minutes I’ve seen from recent cases’ hearings, they do.
- Rick December 21, 2023 (9:01 am)
  
  When I was 14 I was just learning about girls and cars. That was more than enough grief.
- Thomas December 21, 2023 (6:19 pm)
  
  Did they have their hearing today?
  - WSB December 21, 2023 (6:57 pm)
    
    I won’t know until I hear back from the Prosecuting Attorney’s Office. If these were adult suspects, status would also be available via the jail info system, but there’s nothing comparable for juveniles. As noted above, will publish a followup when we find out.
Rick December 21, 2023 (9:08 am)

When I was 16 I had to bring my Dad to traffic court with me. I thought that was normal. I’d just bought my ’66 Mustang and got my license suspended for the summer. Got my attention. I think my Dad might have been buddies with the judge.
- WSB December 21, 2023 (10:29 am)
  
  All of these suspects had parents at their hearings.

Jess December 20, 2023 (11:09 am)

It’s unfortunate some people have children but don’t parent them. I’m curious what the parents thought these kids were doing. How did they get a gun? Did they not learn the golden rule and the simple basics of living in a society? No simple solutions but the community deserves to be protected from those who so blatantly disregard human safety and well-being.

T Rex December 20, 2023 (11:55 am)

I would say that MANY parents do not parent their kids. And many in low-income families don’t even know their mothers or fathers and are raised by grandparents, or the one parent is so overwhelmed with trying to make ends meet, they don’t have any control over them. It is the saddest thing to see in this day and time. My guess is if you were to ask one of these kids, they will say they know not much is going to happen to them because they are kids, therefore, until they become adults, they will keep on keeping on. And when they do become adults, career criminals.
- Jethro Marx December 20, 2023 (8:21 pm)
  
  I would say many parents of teenagers, perhaps all, are in a battle each and every day to understand them, much less have them adopt the morals and ways of living we have in mind for them. As to your sayings and guesses, they are almost transparently racist, whether you mean them that way or not. Many (perhaps almost all) parents of kids in the criminal justice system are doing their best to get their kids to get out and stay out; I wonder if you have considered the many obstacles to those efforts?
  - Jess December 20, 2023 (10:52 pm)
    
    Don’t believe media reports included race details, so you’re the one bringing racist thoughts into the discussion. Maybe you should question your assumptions. Understanding a teenager’s thoughts and motivations is one thing, Living with a violent criminal is another. Sell your excuses elsewhere.

Streamdreamer December 20, 2023 (11:13 am)

Let alone the attempted car jacking, driving a stolen vehicle, causing property damage along Alki Ave and fleeing police at ridiculous speeds if they truly robbed the folks at the Christmas lights display on Beach Drive w a gun…that’s a felony with stiff penalties!

April December 20, 2023 (1:06 pm)

Great News! Now keep them locked up. They commit the crime, they deserve the time.

Ex-Westwood Resident December 20, 2023 (2:22 pm)

Interesting.

I see all the “put them in jail” and “hope they get charged” responses. Which I agree with and support.

BUT…the ones that REALLY decide to do that, but don’t, keep getting elected, even when they state that they will not enforce the law on juveniles.

Remember Dow Constitine’s goal of not incarcerating youths for the crimes that commit, instead assigning them to some sort of “diversion” program.

Everyone want’s something done about the crime rate, especially youth crime, but the SAME politicians that have defunded…excuse me…shifted funding from enforcement to other means like LEAD, or have said that youths will NOT be prosecuted, KEEP GETTING ELECTED BY YOU!!!

There is NO secret why there has been an explosion of youth crime in this area.

When you remove the consequences of “bad” actions, why would they NOT commit those crimes???

Remember, all laws (and locks) do, is to keep honest people honest.

Without ANY consequences there is no order, only chaos!!!

Westyone December 20, 2023 (5:35 pm)

Thank you for clarifying on Dow Constantine. I will not be voting for him next time.! Everyone should be contributing to the blog to help us elect council members and others that are serious about crime…… meanwhile I want specifically THANK the Seattle police department: that was an effective and quick response grabbing those losers! Thank you so much….. Now, if we could get the judges to get serious, that would help get these young lowlife off the street! Name the judges!
- WSB December 20, 2023 (5:48 pm)
  
  I got a bit of additional documentation this afternoon. Judge Nelson Lee ordered their continued detention yesterday.
  - WS Citizen December 20, 2023 (8:27 pm)
    
    WSB, To whom should direct or indirect victims reach out regarding Restorative Justice efforts for these young men? Any advice or resources appreciated, as I don’t know who to contact or which schedules to watch, but am willing to engage.Thanks for all you do to enhance our community!
    - WSB December 20, 2023 (9:09 pm)
      
      Over the years, we haven’t covered many violent crimes involving juvenile suspects, so I’m not as well-versed in the juvenile system – maybe one of our readers is an expert who can weigh in. That aside, googling took me to this page, and if you expand the “diversion” subheading, there’s a contact listed.
      https://kingcounty.gov/en/legacy/courts/superior-court/juvenile/restorative-programs
    - Concerned W Seattlite December 21, 2023 (5:39 pm)
      
      WSB-any update on how things went at court today? Do we know if charges were filed? Do we know if these youths already had charges against them for other things in the past?
    - WSB December 21, 2023 (5:46 pm)
      
      No, we don’t have an update yet. Will write the story as soon as we can when we find out, though at this point it might not be until tomorrow morning – the juvenile system doesn’t have as many windows into it as the adult system.
    - 1994 December 20, 2023 (10:04 pm)
      
      You can google The Seattle Times Restorative Justice and there are a number of informative articles or opinion write ups on the concept. Oct 13 2023 opinion starts off: But decades of research showing how often kids in youth courts eventually graduate to state prison have made the stakes clear. So, it’s sound public policy to divert as many young people from that path as possible, especially those charged with low-level crimes.That’s not to say all juvenile diversion programs work. Considering their potential, and the money King County is spending on them — $13.5 million since 2021 — tracking their impact is essential. But reports of lax oversight have dogged the effort, a self-inflicted wound that is likely to undercut trust among voters and, possibly, the program’s survival.
    - Neighbor December 20, 2023 (11:40 pm)
      
      For low level crimes, yes.For robbery, high speed highway chases what do you think?
  - 1994 December 20, 2023 (11:10 pm)
    
    Judge Nelson is very practical and hope he remains the judge assigned for these 3 youth.

Graciano December 20, 2023 (3:59 pm)

Send them off to the Green Hill school in Chehalis, then 10 years in Walla Walla.

Brandon December 20, 2023 (4:26 pm)

You need to lower your expectations a bit. You obviously understand people bend over backwards here to vote for hardship because they’re convinced it’s progress, regardless of how it affects their community and how their bank accounts empty out. So you should know introspective thought and critical thinking is out the window when any possible opposition is simply labeled the worse thing imaginable with a buzzword that they can’t be associated with.

Lagartija Nick December 20, 2023 (5:03 pm)

We worship guns, greed and violence in our country. Our leaders are not held accountable for their criminal behavior. Social media and “likes” drive our behavior. And people are shocked by how our society has devolved?

WSDAD December 21, 2023 (6:54 am)

Interesting. I do feel social media has a significant effect on what kids do today. It’s like trying to be the coolest kid in the school but on a national level. When these kids commit crimes, they usually post them without sympathy towards the people they hurt or society. Several years ago, I worked with volunteers taking kids living in poverty camping. Most of the kids have never been to the woods. We had to show them how to set up a tent, create a campfire, and cook food in a foil packet. They had s’mores for the first time in their life. They had a blast. I always wonder where these kids are today and hope they have a better life path.

Mike December 21, 2023 (8:28 am)

Wondering if these are the same teens that hit the gas station on Ambaum a week ago?Or people who robbed Shorewood Market at gun point a few days ago?

WSB December 21, 2023 (9:19 am)

Don’t know. There are multiple groups.

Ferns December 21, 2023 (10:34 pm)

Can the parents be charged with child endangerment for allowing them unsupervised access to weapons? At least have their fitness for custody reviewed?