WEST SEATTLE CRIME WATCH: Police pursue carjacking, robbery suspects; 3 arrested (updated Tuesday)

10:04 PM: Police suspect the same people are behind three incidents they’re investigating right now – all involving a vehicle described as a gray Nissan Murano SUV or something similar – first a robbery attempt at 63rd/Alki, second a carjacking (or attempt) on Admiral Way, then a robbery on Beach Drive. No other details yet except that police are pursuing what might be the suspects’ vehicle in the Alki area right now. Updates to come.

10:07 PM: The plates on the vehicle have checked to a Hyundai Santa Fe registered in South King County. The pursuit – reported at up to 90 mph – is moving up to the West Seattle Bridge.

10:10 PM: Now they’ve moved on to southbound I-5. While on the bridge they deployed “stop sticks” and are reporting that tire(s) on the suspects’ car have deflated and are shredding.

10:13 PM: They’re off the freeway and the suspects have bailed out of the car, with a foot pursuit ensuing. At least one person is in custody.

10:16 PM: They’re now reporting two in custody, one still on the run in a rail yard, described as “unknown male, black hoodie, jeans, late teens/early 20s.” They’re near the north end of Boeing Field [map].

10:38 PM: And officers have just told dispatch they’ve taken the third suspect into custody.

10:54 PM: Since this all initially happened so fast, police are now sorting out the original incidents. They’ve said it started with a robbery attempt in the 2800 block of Alki near Cactus, then the carjacking attempt near 59th/Admiral, then the robbery (or attempt) in the 5700 block of Beach Drive. They’re also trying to catch up with the victims (so if by any chance that’s you, you might consider calling 911).

11:43 PM: Two commenters note that the Beach Drive incident happened near the Menashe Family Christmas lights display. Meantime, one suspect has been described over the air as 14 years old.

TUESDAY MIDDAY UPDATE: Here’s how SPD summarized it, in response to our inquiry, including confirmation that all three suspects were booked into juvenile detention:

Police received reports of carjackings in the 2800 block of Alki Avenue Southwest, in the 3800 block of 59th Avenue Southwest, and in the 5700 block of Beach Drive Southwest around 10:00 p.m. yesterday. The victims were approached by the suspects to steal their vehicles. In all three incidents, the victims reported a firearm being involved.

SPD officers located the suspect vehicle and a pursuit ensued. Police deployed stop sticks which caused the suspect vehicle to come to a stop near the intersection of South Corgiat Drive and Ursula Place South. The suspects fled on foot and after a foot pursuit two of the three suspects were taken into custody. KCSO K9 responded to the scene and assisted with locating the third suspect. The suspect vehicle was an unreported stolen vehicle. The three male juvenile suspects were booked into the King County Child and Family Justice Center for robbery, eluding a police vehicle, and possession of a stolen motor vehicle.

Commenters below include at least two of the victims.

ADDED 12:57 PM: The three suspects have hearings in about half an hour. We’ll update.

94 Replies to "WEST SEATTLE CRIME WATCH: Police pursue carjacking, robbery suspects; 3 arrested (updated Tuesday)"

  • ACE December 18, 2023 (10:11 pm)

    WSB to the rescue again! I was wondering what all the sirens were about and knew they would be an update here.

  • Nancy December 18, 2023 (10:15 pm)

    Did anyone hear possible gunshots with this? We live on Alki between 60th and 61st and we thought we may have heard gunshots…possibly 2?

    • R December 18, 2023 (11:56 pm)

      Was outside on Alki Ave as the Nissan drove by, approximately at 61st. Did not hear gunshots myself, no. 

    • JMS December 19, 2023 (12:30 am)

      Could it have been them hitting the crosswalk signs? I was walking west on Alki Ave when the silver car went by (a little before 10pm), with it originally heading east. I was a bit past 58th, when they made an abrupt U-turn near me, followed by it speeding down the center of the street, hitting all the little flappy crosswalk signs (it looked like the car was aiming for them). The sound produced from the signs being hit did sound a bit like gunshots.

    • Science27 December 19, 2023 (9:15 am)

      I heard those too and thought it was fireworks from the Seahawks game

  • OnAlki December 18, 2023 (10:19 pm)

    The Murano and a SPD cruiser flew by me at 56th and Alki likely doing 80. Happy no one was hurt in the chase. 

    • ltfd December 19, 2023 (3:45 pm)

      Happy no one was hurt in the felonious carjacking attempts.

    • Tawna Gogolin December 20, 2023 (8:51 am)

      Yep I was passed by the suspect and 3 patrol cars after leaving Salty’s. Shook my car as they passed because they were going so fast! But I’m all for the pursuit! Need to get these criminals of our streets!!!

  • HoneyBun December 18, 2023 (10:24 pm)

    Frick Yes! Nail ’em one and all!

  • Admiral-2009 December 18, 2023 (10:28 pm)

    Ditto ACE

  • Erik December 18, 2023 (10:29 pm)

    Yeehaw! Glad to see the SPD have been able to apprehend them. Hopefully these are the people that have been terrorizing us for months now. Would be great to see some resolution.

  • Seattlite December 18, 2023 (10:44 pm)

    Outstanding work SPD police officers!  This is what needs to be done to the criminals who are carjacking, robbing, and basically terrifying law-abiding citizens in WS and greater Seattle.  Criminals need to be reminded that their criminal actions will have consequences and that’s exactly what SPD police officers did tonight.

  • TMT December 18, 2023 (10:52 pm)

    Awesome work SPD! Thank you! 

  • Admiral December 18, 2023 (10:54 pm)

    I walked outside around 6pm on 45th and admiral way and saw these guys prowling a neighbors Hyundai Elantra. I walked outside and they sped off with their lights turned off. Glad they caught them good job SPD! 

    • Rhonda December 19, 2023 (1:16 am)

      Please contact the non-emergency number for SPD and report what you saw with suspect descriptions. It will help the prosecution build their case against these very dangerous criminals: 206-625-5011.

    • CarDriver December 19, 2023 (5:37 am)

      Admiral. PLEASE call SPD and give them that information. Any and all additional information will be valuable to the detectives and prosecutors.

  • Wseattleite December 18, 2023 (10:57 pm)

    Nice work SPD!  Putting these dangerous criminals behind bars. Thanks to the policies allowing pursuit. A few episodes like this, and it will not be so cool to drive around without plates and jeopardize the general public. In most places, that guarantees arrest and jail. Can Seattle become one of those places?

    • G December 18, 2023 (11:46 pm)

      One can hope!!

  • Sillygoose December 18, 2023 (11:15 pm)

    A witness that called 911 as the 3 were attempting to rob citizens leaving the Menashe lights Posted about it on ring video.

    • WSB December 18, 2023 (11:20 pm)

      Assuming you use that platform, maybe you could suggest they share their video here, where we’re covering the story? Thanks. That’s also the one incident in which police are still trying to make contact with a/the victim.

      • WS Citizen December 18, 2023 (11:33 pm)

        My family made one of the calls from outside the Menashe house. We are thinking of the victim and hope she is home safe and unharmed. Super duper impressed with the 911 operator and the police response time! Thank you, law enforcement.

        • DM December 19, 2023 (2:00 am)

          Thank you so much for doing that. I was unharmed, although so scared I actually peed my pants (sorry for the TMI).

          • WS Citizen December 19, 2023 (2:57 am)

            Hugs to you, DM! So, so glad you’re okay. Totally natural for your body to react in that way under the circumstances! 🤗

  • AlkiResident December 18, 2023 (11:19 pm)

    It’s not summer, where busy chaos might spill over to the residents. It appears this community was targeted. 

    • Als December 19, 2023 (7:21 am)

      It may as well be. The last three – four nights prior to last night have been rowdy and loud with car racing, beach bonfires, screaming and partying. Sunday night, I discovered a pit filled with cans and bottles buried in the sand.Bless the dry weather. 

  • Jay December 18, 2023 (11:34 pm)

    We should work together to set up instances…and then BAM, get more of these teens who are non-susceptible to “actual jail time” to spend a bit of time locked up, to learn.

    • J December 18, 2023 (11:52 pm)

      100% agree. We need a citizen group that works to help SPD rapidly respond in real time, quickly like this! I fell like between these scary incidents and wreckless driving in and around neighborhoods/parks/schools, it needs to be caught and ended. We shouldn’t have to fear living here, while also doing our part to mitigate it.

      • The Other Jay December 19, 2023 (9:26 am)

        This is dependent on SPD being a willing, good faith partner. I don’t think that can happen with SPOG in place. They did a good job last night, but at the same time they’re resisting any type of oversight and officers are still committing crimes without consequences.

        • Rhonda December 19, 2023 (1:47 pm)

          The Other Jay, SHAME ON YOU. The SPD officers put themselves in grave danger every day and night and may not come home from their shifts. They pursue and apprehend the most dangerous criminals in our entire state while you relax at home. The SPOG is a union that protects the labor contracts for those who protect all of us. Your comment is disgusting after what happened last night.

          • heartless December 19, 2023 (2:37 pm)

            No, Rhonda, SHAME ON SPOG.

            Shame on them for calling training on racial profiling an attack on American values. 

            Shame on them for being selfish zealots and fighting against vaccines.

            Shame on SPOG leadership for laughing about Jaahnavi Kandula’s death.

            And shame on them for consistently choosing an us v them relationship with the very people they should be serving.

            And no, Rhonda, despite the proganda it’s not that dangerous being a cop in Seattle.  PLENTY of other jobs are more dangerous, so stop with that line of nonsense. 

            Your defense of the bad apples at SPOG is predictable, Rhonda, but your attempt to shame someone for calling out the rot that is SPOG?  Pathetic.

          • Confused December 20, 2023 (3:56 am)

            Please tell me what all of these “more dangerous” jobs are???I can’t think of another job that has a higher rate of injuries on duty than law enforcement.Please tell me another job in which a person is attacked, stabbed, or shot for just merely wearing a uniform. If you say loggers are more dangerous. Find me an example of a log attacking a logger out of the blue. Or multiple logs ambushing and assaulting the logger.Your username is spot on. You are heartless.

          • Adam December 19, 2023 (4:39 pm)

            Relax, Rhonda. The reason we have this stupidly terrible idea of non-pursuit and the equally ridiculous movement to defund the police (clearly I’m against both) is at least partly due to citizens being frustrated with the age-old unspoken rule of not crossing the “blue line”. There’s blood on all hands here. Let’s just get back to good policing, make it better than ever and equally applied, and try to make everyone happy (doubtful but I hope). Pretending that everyone in a particular profession is a hero is as laughable as pretending that everyone in a particular profession is a villain. Guys, we don’t HAVE TO fight about everything by taking one of two poorly thought out sides when we can work together and find actual solutions.  Let’s have oversight while not handcuffing the cops. 

        • ltfd December 19, 2023 (3:46 pm)

          Your bias is showing.

        • Mel December 19, 2023 (4:48 pm)

          Please provide examples of crimes being committed by officers without consequences 

          • Adam December 19, 2023 (5:59 pm)

            Yeah, go ahead and be obtuse. So, by your incredibly sound logic, the only crimes committed by citizens are the ones we know about? And then, let’s say there are actually crimes in this world that go unprosecuted, and then put the power of investigation in the hands of the people who may or may not commit those crimes. Wouldn’t it be possibly easier to get away with them if there were, say, a “blue line” that they shouldn’t cross without the threat of retaliation? I clearly made an argument that no side is completely clean and no side is inherently bad. Are you arguing against that? A simple google search would give many examples of cops being prosecuted and many examples of cops who got away with things. And that’s just the things we know about. God I wish I was so naive to completely misunderstand the entire world as good and  evil, it sounds so easy. Cuz then I could away all agency and just simply side with liberal or conservative, MAGA or woke, cop vs citizen, crips and bloods, Sharks and Jets, Hatfields and McCoys, blue M&M vs purple, Hawks vs Niners. I’ve gone astray with setting aside completely emotional responses and instead opting for the logical. But you do you cuz it’s easy. Obviously Hawks, btw. Don’t get it twitted

          • Sigh December 19, 2023 (6:33 pm)

            Well, there was the cop who mowed down a pedestrian responding to a call that didn’t need him at all (it was medical), let alone need him there so quickly it warranted that speed late at night.  But the cop gets to spin a whole tale about how pedestrians like to randomly jump in front of police cruisers and everyone believes him because they’re conditioned to “toe the blue line”, meanwhile her side will never be known because she’s dead and the police won’t do a proper and thorough investigation of their own.  Want more examples?  Cops being the only ones whose stories are heard because the other cops refuse to investigate and see if it’s true has been part of the play book for a long time.

        • Seattlite December 19, 2023 (7:43 pm)

          The Other Jay:  What crimes are SPD’s officers committing?  When you make a statement like that without any supporting facts, it makes your statement irrelevant to the discussion.

  • G December 18, 2023 (11:45 pm)

    Has anyone else noticed an increase in SPD on the street in WS in the past week or two? I’m so glad they were there when we needed them to catch these menaces. Keep it up! 

    • North admiral December 19, 2023 (12:46 pm)

      Yes. I have. I saw a car pulled over last week by met market. First time I’ve seen that since pre pandemic. Also seen cops just driving around which I’ve barely seen much of the last three years 

  • Chelle December 19, 2023 (12:18 am)

    So glad all 3 were caught. Great job to everyone calling it in and SPD. So sorry to all the victims . 

  • Hd December 19, 2023 (1:15 am)

    14 years old? Were are their parents?  

  • DM December 19, 2023 (1:29 am)

    I am the Beach Dr victim. The robbers took off with my phone as well as my friend’s phone. They later threw my phone on the road and we were able to recover it thanks to location tracking, but it’s thoroughly broken.It was a terrifying experience as they demanded I give them my car key. I screamed and kicked and they threatened they would shoot. There was no gun that I could see, but one of them held what looked like a women’s purse to appear as if a gun was concealed in it.

    • WSB December 19, 2023 (1:46 am)

      Thank you for sharing your story.

    • ur pup December 19, 2023 (1:58 am)

      That was one hella a date huh ;)

    • CH December 19, 2023 (7:14 am)

      I just wanted to thank you for sharing your story and wish you the best after such a scary experience.  I know these things can alter how we navigate daily life after they occur so I hope you are as okay as can be and I am glad you are safe. 

    • Pete December 19, 2023 (7:41 am)

      That sounds terrifying. I hope you have a wonderful holiday season.

    • Pelicans December 19, 2023 (8:44 am)

      I am so sorry for what you went through, and hope you are feeling better today. Thank you for your bravery, and for fighting back. These are not criminal masterminds, as I recently found out through experience, but simply cowardly punks. They go for the easiest targets; innocent people going about their business in public, with a reasonable expectation of safety. Please be well.  And bravo to SPD for chasing and catching! Now prosecute and jail!

  • Marcus December 19, 2023 (4:23 am)

    Thank you SPD, thank you!

  • Rocky Bullwinkle December 19, 2023 (5:30 am)

    Thank you, SPD! Great work. And thank you new police pursuit law.

  • CarDriver December 19, 2023 (5:42 am)

    WSB. Please follow up on these crooks! Anxious to hear what SPD and prosecutors say/do. Also pursue if these crooks are connected to other crimes in WS and elsewhere.

    • WSB December 19, 2023 (12:18 pm)

      Followup info added above. Next step prosecutors as they will have info on initial hearings.

  • Jeepney December 19, 2023 (5:56 am)

    Outstanding work SPD and excellent coverage WSB.It appears that there is an emphasis on public safety again.

  • West Seattle Mad Sci Guy December 19, 2023 (7:07 am)

    Curious if the involved vehicle(s) were recently stolen or if the vehicles match recently committed crimes. 

    • WSB December 19, 2023 (12:20 pm)

      Yes, originally the plate came back “clear” but then the owner at some point during all this reported it stolen (not sure if that was because police contacted them to ask if they were aware of their vehicle’s whereabouts, or whether they realized it otherwise). Very typical in cases like this for a vehicle to have been used in a crime and/or crashed before its owner even knows it’s gone …

  • JohnSamson December 19, 2023 (7:18 am)

    Thanks to Seattle PD and neighboring law enforcement agencies for a successful pursuit & arrests. Now we just have to hope that the judges put these criminals (juveniles or not) in jail to keep the streets of Seattle safe. There needs to be zero tolerance for violent crime in our city and that starts with the judges actually holding criminals accountable and keeping them in jail & off our streets. Working for the police department is a thankless dangerous job and we should be thankful that SPD stepped up and arrested these criminals successfully. Hope more judges run in the next election that will hold criminals accountable and quit favoring violent criminals over innocent victims . 

  • Joan December 19, 2023 (7:23 am)

    Lock ’em up, throw away the key.

  • Got em' December 19, 2023 (7:50 am)

    GREAT JOB SPD!!!! So sorry to the victims, that is very scary. 

  • Kravitz December 19, 2023 (8:12 am)

    It’s sickening to think that one of the suspects is just 14 years old doing this sort of thing. Not even old enough to obtain a valid learner’s permit, yet he’s out there car jacking and robbing people with two other miscreants. Enough is enough. Charge them all as adults – they could’ve killed someone in the high speed chase. 

  • snowskier December 19, 2023 (8:27 am)

    Thank you SPD for capturing these violent criminals.  These are all direct, brazen acts taken against other people who luckily were not physically injured.  Please no restorative justice for these 3, they are bad people, making bad choices and need to face the consequences.  They are the reason we have prisons.  Please judges, take the right actions to help them spend some time behind bars, the rest of us don’t deserve their presence…..and they did it at the Menashe house which is just a 100% source of joy for so many.

    • Wes December 19, 2023 (9:40 am)

      Couldn’t agree more.  They need to be locked up for a long time to think about their poor life decisions.  We also need to consider changing the laws to hold parents financially responsible for their children’s actions in matters such as this.  Once that is done, parents will take a little more concern about where their 14 year old is after dark.

  • WSEA December 19, 2023 (8:37 am)

    The WS Community Group should attend court hearings for these criminals as a means of demonstrating our support for victims, SPD and the courts.

    • Admiral Mom December 22, 2023 (1:18 pm)

      I agree. But without a case number or suspects names, we don’t know when and where to show up.

  • Scarlett December 19, 2023 (8:40 am)

    This is the inevitable byproduct of a society constructed around rapacious, exploitative capitalism. Most of you will secretly accept this Faustian bargain if you can keep your goodies and someone else pays the price. 

    • Brandon December 19, 2023 (9:18 pm)

      And pigs fly. Now say that with a straight face without laughing the whole time. Might as well blame capitalism for getting the hiccups too. “Those darn parents not teaching their kids morals because of the capitalists of the world. Shame on them people making good choices for their family, causing all these problems for the rest of us who can make the same choices but dont.”

    • wscommuter December 19, 2023 (9:59 pm)

      It must be difficult being superior to all us rubes.  If only we all had your self-assured wisdom.  Alas … 

      • Brandon December 20, 2023 (9:50 am)

        Step 1 would be not to call yourself a rube. You and I are no different here.

    • Question Authority December 20, 2023 (9:53 am)

      And yet you participate by using a globally sourced electronic device powered by a government entity all while not starving in some remote disease ridden gulag.  Oh the injustice.

  • JS December 19, 2023 (9:06 am)

    Agree with many sentiments here but also want to share a story. About 2 years ago my 16 year old son was at a bus stop on the west side of 35th & Morgan when a young man approached him, held a gun to his chest, and forced him to walk over and carjack a delivery driver. It was very brazen in the afternoon and caught on camera. My son did it and after driving a few blocks they let him pull over and he ran home. It’s possible some of these younger kids may be coerced into these situations. (My son did work with the police and had a probationary period during the investigation.) 

  • Question Authority December 19, 2023 (9:11 am)

    This instance and youth crimes like this is why Dow’s plan to shutter the juvenile justice center is utterly ridiculous.  The proposed replacement is to site respite homes in random residential areas where these youth will receive more holistic services, because lock down detention is so unjust they say.  Really?!  Do people actully think violent crime can be excused as youthful ignorance and not subject to consequences?  Only doing time in the vertical bar hotel serves all the participants here, they get due consequences and we get safety for the win.

  • DRW December 19, 2023 (9:44 am)

    Thank you SPD! Pursue often. These new age criminals think that they can get away with pretty much anything. We need to get that pursuit law straightened out so the police can do their job to protect and serve our community.

  • Nikki December 19, 2023 (11:20 am)

    I was one of the victims. Never been so scared in my life. I believe they must have followed me home after the beach drive incident. I dropped a girlfriend home on beach drive and drove to my house near la rustica. I parked and was sending a few text in my car and all of a sudden there was a masked man pounding on my window, I believe waving a gun and telling me to get the f— out. Then I saw two more on the other side bashing at my windows and screaming. I panicked, reversed, and sped off. They chased me. I got to admiral way and saw a pedestrian and started screaming for help. I saw they were longer behind me and we called the cops. SPD came so quick and was able to catch them all later on. I knew they looked very young. They are my kids age. Breaks my heart that such young kids are doing things like this. My kids could have lost their mother over this. I’m so shook up and still in shock. 

    • LyndaB December 19, 2023 (6:42 pm)

      Thank you for sharing.  I’m so sorry you had to go through this.  Big hugs.

  • Actually Mike December 19, 2023 (11:29 am)

    Nice work, SPD! Thank you for getting these punks off the street. Now, the courts need to do their part.

  • West Seattle resident December 19, 2023 (11:32 am)

    I don’t suppose there is any information about gunshots in the Westwood village area last night? We were woken up by loud bangs and yelling at 2am, when we called it in they said there were multiple calls about it already but we didn’t hear any sirens or commotion like we usually would with this kind of call, and no update. 

    • WSB December 19, 2023 (12:22 pm)

      No confirmed gunfire that I know of except for the bullet damage amid the post-Seahawks fireworks (reported separately) but your report would have been hours later.

    • Roxy December 19, 2023 (5:12 pm)

      It happened at 25th & SW Trenton around 225a.  I heard the gun shots too (they sounded extremely close to me)  and immediately turned on our police channel on broadcastify.com. I heard them say there were two drivers arguing over a parking spot.  One person fired two shots into the air, no one was hurt.  Sounds like the suspects were in a white dodge pickup truck with a white shell over the back.  They took off, last seen heading towards Delridge.   I don’t think the police found them.   All that over a parking space.   SMH

    • Roxy December 19, 2023 (6:06 pm)

      I heard the gunshots too. It was at 25th & SW Trenton at 225A. I quickly turned on our police channel on broadcastify.com and heard them say two parties were arguing over a parking place. One person fired two shots into the air, no one was hurt. The suspects took off in a white Dodge pickup truck with a white shell over the bed. Last seen heading towards Delridge. The police responded (very quietly, I didn’t hear them either) but I don’t think the police found the truck. All this over a parking place. SMH.

  • Peter December 19, 2023 (11:47 am)

    Thank you SPD for the excellent work! We appreciate you. 

  • Derek December 19, 2023 (2:59 pm)

    God bless the SPD.  Happy Holidays are here!!!

  • Westie December 19, 2023 (3:31 pm)

    Great work, SPD!Either the assailants should be charged as adults, or their parents should be tried. Attempted carjacking at gunpoint needs punishment. What the hell is happening to our city?

  • ltfd December 19, 2023 (3:47 pm)

    Young thugs needing incarceration. Thank you SPD.

  • Sigh December 19, 2023 (6:41 pm)

    I really wonder how many of these “lock ’em up forever” people on these boards identify as fiscal hawks and if any of them have the slightest clue how much it costs to lock someone up for a year, let alone forever.  There are so many studies out there comparing the efficacies of different approaches to crime, and crime among juveniles, and the most effective methods are usually a lot cheaper.  I strongly suspect most “fiscal hawks” only identify as such when they want to feel morally superior over the spenders, and are no longer concerned about finances when they want to feel superior over the criminals.

    • Frog December 19, 2023 (7:04 pm)

      What are these effective methods, and why aren’t they being used?  Not the cost, apparently.  I suspect it’s because they don’t really exist, or their effectiveness is fantasy, but would be happy to be proven wrong.  If these methods would stop the current juvenile crime wave, everyone would be happy.

      • Jort December 20, 2023 (12:11 am)

        America locks up more children than any other country in the world, yet has higher juvenile crime rates. Something tells me the real “fantasy” of effectiveness is the belief that jailing more youth results in lower crime. If it did, America would have the lowest juvenile crime rate in the world. It doesn’t. Less punitive countries have lower crime rates. You might not like this but it is a flat, unarguable and indisputable fact. Why is this so hard to understand for people? Why are people so unwilling to engage in reflection about this fundamental contradiction in their belief systems?

        • Frog December 20, 2023 (9:46 am)

          Local crime is local.  We don’t live in this mythical place “America” that you mention.  We live in King County, WA, where progressive opinion has turned against youth incarceration, and we don’t lock them up much at all.  In an unrelated, purely coincidental development, we also have a juvenile crime wave.  You are right that some people are unwilling to reflect on the contradictions in their belief systems.  Not saying who.  Meanwhile, whenever you ask progressives what are the alleged “effective” alternatives to youth incarceration, they always dodge the question.  Always.

          • Jeff December 20, 2023 (10:35 am)

            You are getting cause and effect backwards, Frog. The locking up of youth has failed to work in the past, as Jort mentions, so why would it magically work now? Everywhere it’s practiced too, King County, and other states. We need restorative justice. And we need to bridge the income equality gaps.  There’s ZERO dodging. It’s restorative justice and it WORKS. Please look into it. Blaming progressives when folks like Harrell were on city council for a decade plus is rich too.

          • Another One December 20, 2023 (12:02 pm)

            Here you go Frog, evidence-based models on youth crime begin with supporting families from birth. Several methods are mentioned in this article. The article also speaks to ineffective prevention strategies, including fear-based, lock-em-up-and-throw-away-the key models. https://www.impactlaw.com/criminal-law/juvenile/prevention



            Here’s a meta analysis that was done that showed: “Counseling interventions had the largest positive effects on recidivism decreasing it by 13%, followed by Multiple coordinated services (12%), and Skill building programs (12%). The counseling interventions that were most effective were group-based, mentoring focused, and those that had mixed combinations of various types of counseling. Whereas, discipline interventions had the largest negative effects on recidivism with an increase of 8%, with deterrence interventions increasing recidivism by 2%.


      • Sigh December 20, 2023 (6:35 am)

        Frog, there are plenty of intervention and redirection programs (details vary, but generally they all provide wraparound supports so basic needs, including mental health concerns, are being met) that we aren’t using because people start crying about how they don’t want their tax money to go to “coddling” someone and would rather pay more to punish, and punish only.  Recidivism rates are significantly higher among teenagers who are locked up as opposed to participating in therapeutic programs.  Locking them up leads to MORE crime.  But the Loud Angry people would rather have more crime victims in the future than allow the perpetrator of one crime a chance to turn their life around if it sounds like someone might be nice to them for 5 minute to make that happen.  It doesn’t make sense financially, and it doesn’t make sense if the real goal is reducing crime.  “Lock ’em up” is about feelings, and feelings only, which is a stupid way to craft policy.

    • Mike December 19, 2023 (7:27 pm)

      How much are lives of innocent people worth?  How much is PTSD of innocent victims worth?  One criminal creates hundreds of victims, not to mention the property damage costs.  Some criminals are too far gone to bring back into society.

      • heartless December 19, 2023 (8:02 pm)

        I find it ironic that you both completely missed the point but also brought up property damage costs.  

        Again, the current point (and there are many other points to consider–but for now let’s keep it simple enough for everyone to follow)–is this.  Jail is expensive.  Are you willing to pay a ton more taxes to jail (FOREVER) all these people you don’t want to “bring back into society”?

        I mean, Sigh’s point is right on the nose–Seattle is full of people complaining about taxes going up so we can, for example, house the homeless.  And yet how many of those people don’t think twice about stridently arguing for housing (and feeding!  and providing healthcare for!) criminals?  And not just temporarily, talking about housing and feeding and providing for them FOREVER. 

        Doesn’t that strike at least some of you as idiosyncratic?

    • Simplicity December 19, 2023 (11:55 pm)

      Don’t overthink it. Some people just dont belong in society and dont deserve freedoms. Remove the violent, thieving, raping, shooting problem people from society. The end. Unrelated to fiscal convos. Not a political convo either.

      • Ivan Weiss December 20, 2023 (6:21 am)

        “Simplicity,” is it? The issue is absolutely, positively related to fiscal and political “convos.” No matter how fervently anyone seeks “simplicity,” jailing people costs money. Feeding them costs money. Whose money is that? It’s YOUR money. It’s MY money. Heaven forbid we should address the root cause of these carjackings, which is easy access to GUNS, and the opposition of the GUN LOBBY to removing gun possession from even the worst criminals that roam our streets? These are complex questions, that can have only complex solutions. So sorry, pal, Santa isn’t bringing you, or anybody else, any “simplicity” this Christmas.

        • Simplicity December 20, 2023 (10:53 pm)

          Correct. Safer societies are not free. It’s not cheap keeping criminals off the streets. Countries that can’t afford to keep their communities safe are not the countries you want to live in. It’s simple. Lock up criminals, pay for safety and civility. 

  • Sighs December 19, 2023 (8:02 pm)

    Thank you SPD !!!!Thank you WS blog!!!Sorry for the VICTIMS – hope you are doing okay!!!

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