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LINCOLN PARK PICKLEBALL? Seattle Parks says it’s ‘pausing project construction for two weeks’

October 31, 2023 6:01 pm
|      254 COMMENTS
 |   West Seattle news | West Seattle parks | WS & Sports

A new development late today in the city’s plan to set up six pickleball courts on what used to be tennis courts in Lincoln Park. Previously, Seattle City Councilmember Lisa Herbold had asked Seattle Parks Superintendent AP Diaz last Friday to host a community meeting about the plan, which has drawn opposition from people worried the noise will harm birds and. other wildlife. Early this afternoon, Councilmember Herbold told us she had not yet heard back from Diaz. Then late this afternoon, Parks sent an email to people who had contacted the department about the plan – sent to both supporters and opponents, judging by those who received it and forwarded it to us. Here’s what it says:

Dear community members,

Over the past few weeks, we have heard from many community members about resurfacing the court in Lincoln Park to enable pickleball play. Some comments expressed concern about noise, lack of a State Environmental Policy Act (SEPA) analysis, assertions of tree removal and disruption to wildlife, while other comments expressed support for the project and excitement for adding more recreational opportunities in West Seattle.

Please be assured that Seattle Parks and Recreation (SPR) is working hard to cultivate a park system that balances our varying points of view, which includes our mission to build healthy people, a thriving environment and vibrant community throughout the entire Seattle city park system.

At this time, we can respond to some of these concerns:

–SPR reiterates there is no tree removal being done to support this project. Consistent with other court resurfacing projects, SPR is not conducting a SEPA analysis as the existing court is being repurposed with already defined recreational uses.

–SPR will not pursue lighting at this time.

–We will be pausing project construction for two weeks to talk with experts on Seattle’s bird populations on how we can properly study the potential impact pickleball noise may have on wildlife. We welcome this dialogue and will share our plans more widely after that discussion as we strive to find a collective and beneficial approach to the stewardship and management of our parkland.

Thank you for your commitments to our park system. We invite you to visit our website to learn more about this project:
https://www.seattle.gov/parks/about-us/projects/lincoln-park-tennis-court-conversion.

We also noticed earlier this afternoon that the Parks webpage had been updated, timestamped yesterday, with the schematic plan shown above, mapping the planned courts’ location in the park and the route construction trucks would take to get there.

BACKSTORY: We’ve been reporting on all this since August, when a reader tipped us that the then-imminent (currently on hold until next year) resurfacing of Solstice Park‘s tennis courts would include restriping three for pickleball. Parks then announced a change of plan in September, dropping the Solstice restriping plan and pursuing the Lincoln Park plan. Wildlife advocates subsequently launched a petition drive and opposition campaign. Parks, meantime, launched work at the site more than a week ago, putting up signage and fencing, but with today’s announcement, that’s apparently on hold.

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254 Replies to "LINCOLN PARK PICKLEBALL? Seattle Parks says it's 'pausing project construction for two weeks'"

  • rob October 31, 2023 (6:26 pm)

     are you kidding me. some how the minority wins again. this city will always bend to the constance protester.

    • Protect the Park October 31, 2023 (7:30 pm)

      Rob, you are the minority here. Yes, I have the data to prove it. 

      • Scott October 31, 2023 (7:49 pm)

        Bro let people have fun

        • enoughalready October 31, 2023 (11:11 pm)

          We need the fun of not hearing thwack thwack thwack as we walk through one of the most beautiful parks in the world.  5200 petition signers think a quiet park is pretty darn fun. We have enough places to play pickleball. Why do people keep saying that those who don’t want the courts are the minority when that’s clearly not the case? I personally don’t know anyone in the area that wants the courts – including local pickleball players themselves.   And there are other places to play – really close by! There’s no need to shove this down our throats. Let us have a few acres of green space and a place to hear ourselves think. Please.

          • DidTheMath November 1, 2023 (2:01 pm)

            According to census data, the population of just the zip code where Lincoln park resides is 14,770. The 5200 signatures isn’t even a majority in the local area of the park.

          • Patty November 3, 2023 (10:32 am)

            If you don’t want pickleball installed in this forested area of the park, you can find the petition here:protectlincolnpark.com

          • Diversityinpark November 3, 2023 (12:33 pm)

            In response to Patty’s promotion of the petition, I opened the link. 

            Mis-information starts with the first sentence, “construct six new  pickleball courts in a natural area.” 

            Factually, the courts have existed there for almost a century, this is in the area of Lincoln Park that has been dedicated to picnic facilities, wading pool, lighted public restrooms, a baseball field with backstop & bleechers, a soccer field and a de-facto off leash dog area (the ‘meadow’).  This is, not like the vast majority of Lincoln Park, “a natural area.”+“

            This project will require breaking up concrete, pouring asphalt, installing fencing, steps and retaining walls — all next to an environmentally critical area,”

            Where do we start?
            Breaking up concrete, ‘pouring’ asphalt, steps, retaining walls!  
            The egg crowning this nest of minor & alternative truths is             “            all next to an environmentally critical area.”
            Earlier flyers by Kersti Muul illegally posted throughout Lincoln Park, stated the courts             were IN the ECA,
            which some on WSB pointed out is not true by King County and Seattle DCI. 

            Regarding ECAs, of note and context, our beloved Trader Joe’s in West Seattle is actually in an Environmentally Critical Area, Steep Slope.

            I know that some of the opponents seen on tv own homes in ECAs, as do I.+“Pickleball noise will take this precious natural resource away from two outdoor preschools and many other diverse user groups who enjoy and use this public natural space.”

            A lot to unpack here, the tennis courts are a slab that already exists, have been a storage area for decades and have NEVER been used by outdoor, or any,  preschools. 
            The use of children in this unsourced quote, attempts to rectify the visual absence of children in their protests and mitigate Kersti Muul’s embarrassing response on video to a father with kid in stroller?            “DIVERSE,” 

            Diverse is not this small group of dedicated activists.  A quick review of the leaders, picketers and ditto petitioners reveals a stark homogeneity.
            Here they are alluding to valid criticisms (also via WSB comments) that have exposed them.–

            This comment is intended to stir critical thoughtful respectful fact and evidenced based discourse.

      • Gatewood resident October 31, 2023 (8:19 pm)

        Disagree. This anti-pickle ball thing is ridiculous. The protestors need more challenging jobs if they’re out protesting this of all things

        • Zipda October 31, 2023 (9:03 pm)

          Pickle ball ceasefire is long overdue and rejoiced worldwide.

          • SE Dick November 1, 2023 (11:16 am)

            And, the popular kids cluster-bomb with damaging sloppy garbage. Wait– wha…?

        • It's not that hard October 31, 2023 (9:12 pm)

          Gatewood resident: you must be new to multi-tasking. Doing things I believe in, going to work, feeding the family, bathing the dog… All possible with multi-tasking! It’s… Pretty common actually.

        • Bee November 1, 2023 (1:22 pm)

          Wrong. The city signed a treaty to protect the trees and the endangered migrating birds that live there, in the 1970s.  Prior to this announcement the city elected City officials also lacked transparency of all their plans, which they are now doing. This is mostly in part to people drawing attention to it. I’m sure you wouldn’t want the city acting without transparency on  something you are against. There are other easier places to play pursuing this park made no sense and violated city policy and a treaty.

          • Jethro Marx November 1, 2023 (3:08 pm)

            Not sure how much you know about America but we would never, ever, ever violate a treaty. Especially if the birds and trees signed it.

      • WS Res October 31, 2023 (8:39 pm)

        You have the data to prove it? Let’s see it, then.

        • SE Dick November 1, 2023 (11:22 am)

          *So* have the data WS, *so* have the analysis. Roll back the gates on ~650? Posts? 4 threads? on WSB dating to Oct 21. Educate yourself before sliming or really just what would I say to someone who fkatly effin wouldn’t. Yr incomprehensibly bad for tge debate and my god that’s such a kindness wot I said 

      • Francis Parkman November 1, 2023 (11:52 am)

        You want to Protect the Park? Then sign my petition to ban screaming kids, barking dogs running loose, and self-entitled park neighbors whining about pickleball. Show me you’re not a hypocrite! Petition · Implement Noise Control Measures in West Seattle’s Lincoln Park · Change.org 

      • TreeHouse November 1, 2023 (5:53 pm)

        This is an authentic boomer utilizing the seattle process moment. It reminds me a bit of the gondola folk who made up all these wild excuses to stop the train “for a better transportation system.” Then when the gondola was rejected, they all dropped the excuses and flat out came forward as anti-light rail lol 

        • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (6:34 pm)

          Psst… The Venn diagram overlap of gondola enthusiasts and pavement slab preservationists is significant.

    • TM October 31, 2023 (8:40 pm)

      Good news, and a reasonable approach. Glad to see them take a look at impacts. When the Parks’ $50,000 pickleball plan report was generated, the only user groups polled were pickleball players, and tennis players. That’s a narrow lens, especially when tennis players are becoming less likely to want to share courts with pickleball (Solstice a case in point).  

    • John November 1, 2023 (1:42 pm)

      Ummm the minority is people WANTING pickleball in the park. I’ve seen FAR more people against it both online and in person at protest than I’ve ever seen in favor of it

      • ThisDudeisAltRight^^^ November 2, 2023 (8:07 am)

        You sound just like trump supporters who can’t believe Biden legally won the election. Stuck in your bubble and unable to see the real world outside

  • TJ October 31, 2023 (6:28 pm)

    Dumb. No birds or wildlife will be harmed by pickleball. I really wonder if the people using owls and crows as a reason to fight this actually believe that. They will still be there after It’s built, just as they were there when tennis was being played. It’s a urban park for human recreation, not a wildlife sanctuary. They aren’t installing lights so I guess that’s a olive branch to those who pretend they are in the North Cascades while walking in Lincoln Park. Time to put this ridiculous thing in the mirror and finish the courts. 

    • Protect the Park October 31, 2023 (7:32 pm)

      Any data on your position or just feelings? Prove that there will be no impact. I’ll wait…..

      • Bird data October 31, 2023 (8:01 pm)

        Hi PTP. The thing is NO data has been presented by any one. We’ve only heard conjecture from our naturalist friends and no hard facts. Kirsti spoke antidotally about the effects of sound on our avian population, but didn’t provide backup to the thoughts and concerns. I’m genuinely curious, @kirstimuul, can you provide more insight for us all? 

      • Derek October 31, 2023 (8:03 pm)

        Birds are harmed by cars and planes flying overhead. Not a pickle ball.

        • Rick November 1, 2023 (6:53 am)

          And Randy Johnson’s fastball. Poof!

        • Jim November 1, 2023 (1:45 pm)

          Cars can fly?! The occasional plane going by for a brief period of time is not the same as sustained 80 decibels for hours upon hours

      • bill October 31, 2023 (8:23 pm)

        The birds are still there despite the heavy trucks and other equipment driving in and out during the years this was a storage yard.

        • TM October 31, 2023 (9:25 pm)

          “The birds are still there despite the heavy trucks and other equipment driving in and out during the years this was a storage yard.”

          I lived across the street for a decade, and was in the park daily. The amount of “driving in and out” of the yard is miniscule.

      • Charles Burlingame October 31, 2023 (8:37 pm)

        That’s the thing about SEPA. You don’t have to “prove” “no” impact. The question is whether “significant” impacts are foreseeable.

      • 1994 October 31, 2023 (9:47 pm)

        I see plenty of wildlife and birds all around West Seattle. There are coyote sightings, otters, raccoons, even a cougar sighting was on the blog (even though turned out to be unverifiable although the local wildlife biologist insisted multiple times it was accurately identified as a cougar) rabbits, birds of all kinds all over WS, plenty of other types of living creatures all about. These living creatures exist in residential areas, not solely in Lincoln Park or other nearby large parks. 

        • Alki resident November 1, 2023 (8:27 am)

          But but they want you to believe it’s a sanctuary and they never leave the park, ever. 

      • Utilize the park for public good November 1, 2023 (8:55 pm)

        Protect the park? From who? Y’all have way too much money and free time. Tackle an issue that has substance and isn’t some vanity bs….come on this is peak entitled Seattle.

    • Patty October 31, 2023 (9:01 pm)

      That’s a big part of what people want to preserve – that you can escape the city noises and concrete for an hour or two without having to go to the north Cascades.  And see and hear wildlife. It’s a special and unique park. For those that want to sign the petition:
      http://www.protectlincolnpark.com

    • oknow October 31, 2023 (11:01 pm)

      TJ: Please read up on noise pollution and how it affects animals. It’s an urban park for peace and nature, not a health club. There are plenty of courts elsewhere for exercise but only one Lincoln Park on the Duwamish Peninsula. Those heavy trucks drive through rarely – pickleball is incessant, loud, and nonstop. It will drive wildlife away. We need birds – pollinators.

    • Bee November 1, 2023 (1:26 pm)

      You’re kind of glassing over the point which is: this violates a treaty for biodiversity in that Park made in the 1970’s, and that the city lacked transparency and community engagement prior to their construction work. These are the reasons why people are upset.

    • SE Dick November 3, 2023 (10:42 am)
      1. JulianNovember 1, 2023 2:32 pmWould be nice if the skatepark could get some lights. Disappointing not being able to skate there after work.Reply
  • Junction Dweller October 31, 2023 (6:40 pm)

    • Jennifer October 31, 2023 (7:47 pm)

      😂😂 

    • Pete November 1, 2023 (9:30 am)

      😂😂😂

  • Carole October 31, 2023 (6:49 pm)

    Pause it forever.

    • Jim November 1, 2023 (1:47 pm)

      Exactly! If they really wanted to do something positive in the area they could put a couple picnic tables there

      • TM November 1, 2023 (6:57 pm)

        “If they really wanted to do something positive in the area they could put a couple picnic tables there”That’s actually a great idea

        • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (9:12 pm)

          Really? There are how many tables already in that area that are rarely used, but you’d rather see more picnic tables rather than allow people to enjoy a harmless hobby? 

  • winniegirl October 31, 2023 (7:00 pm)

    serious question, how does pickleball impact birds but the construction at the ferry dock is no problem?

    • heartless October 31, 2023 (7:37 pm)

      From what I’ve read the people against the courts are simply tossing up every argument they can think of–some blatantly disingenuous like complaining about destruction of green habitat. 

      After all, those complaining by and large drive places, would blanche at removing the parking lots at Lincoln Park, and have cats they regularly let outside.  All of which are much worse for the environment than people playing sports on an already paved slab. 

      My conclusions are firstly that people like to bicker and complain and get wound up about things, and secondly that they really don’t like the noise and feel that saying that would just seem kinda petty (especially since the noise would travel to fewer peoples’ ears at this location than at, say, Solstice). 

      But honestly I’m just here for the drama, because, oh man, these threads are just peak West Seattle.

    • Alayna October 31, 2023 (9:44 pm)

      The problem is the proposed court location is right in a green area with huge trees and lots of birds living immediately around it and pickleball is very loud. There’s a bald eagle nest a couple hundred feet away, I’ve seen plenty of owls right near there too. Imo if they moved it to the south side of the park, next to where the defunct children’s playground is, that would be totally fine. Or at Lowman Beach. Or at Solstice. Just not right in the middle of the quiet forest area. 

    • TM November 1, 2023 (7:00 pm)

      “serious question, how does pickleball impact birds but the construction at the ferry dock is no problem?”

      Serious question- is the construction going to go morning to night 7 days a week for the next decade plus?

    • Pickle ball bird November 1, 2023 (8:57 pm)

      Pickleball is species-ist as birds don’t have opposable thumbs and paddles are quite heavy.That being said I’m pro pickleball, these haters need some hobbies or strife in their lives.

  • LovePickleBalll October 31, 2023 (7:09 pm)

    Please built the pickle ball courts at the park and I want it…I will bring my friends to play PBNice to have courts just dedicated to pickleball and brand new courts too. Will host tournaments there.So please built them!! and most people from all over Seattle will come to that park to play pickleball.Makes West Seattle a great place to visit and to walk around Lincoln Park.

    • BLK October 31, 2023 (9:30 pm)

      And where are all your pickleball buddies gonna park?? Shall we pave over even more of this beautiful public space so you can host your “tournaments??” Once the neighbors begin filing lawsuits against the city for allowing pb players to monopolize street parking, and for the noise & light pollution of nightly games, I can envision the courts remaining idle while their existence is litigated. After the damage has already been done. Residents of the area already suffer through constant ferry traffic and congestion. And you want to inflict even more?

      • Jackson K November 1, 2023 (6:10 am)

        Me and my doubles partner ride our bikes to Lincoln Park. And our tournaments will only bring 30-40 people once a month. Some will walk, take the bus, but some will drive. This isn’t any different then a soccer or baseball game every weekend. 

      • LowPoint November 1, 2023 (6:51 am)

        Just a reminder that street parking is the public right of way and does not belong to anyone.

        Also, don’t you think “suffer” might be a bit of a stretch?

      • Tyler November 1, 2023 (8:58 am)

        So we should be feeling bad for the.. **checks notes** homeowners who live nearby because they have more traffic because of the ferry and park?  I’m trying to remember what would have been here first, the ferry and park, or the homeowner 😂 I mean come on.

        • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (3:57 pm)

          Am a homeowner 1.5 blocks from the park and absolutely expect people parking on our street on busy park days. It is fine. 

      • Diversityinpark November 1, 2023 (7:43 pm)

          @BLK,
        Even on multi event days in the summer,  
        there is plenty of excess street parking close by.  

  • ttt October 31, 2023 (7:11 pm)

    Why can’t they just convert some of the tennis courts at Soltice park, which is very close to Lincoln Park, to be “hybrid courts”?

    • Alki resident October 31, 2023 (7:39 pm)

      Because the tennis community d as me pickle ball community prefer separate locations.

    • Sampras October 31, 2023 (8:33 pm)

      Because the tennis players have already had to give up enough already. We’ve lost Lincoln, Lowman, Walt Huntley, Alki, and Southwest. Trying to play tennis with the deafening sound of piclkeball ruins the experience. There are plenty of pickleball courts already.

      • NatureGuy October 31, 2023 (8:53 pm)

        “Trying to play tennis with the deafening sound of piclkeball ruins the experience.”Trying to enjoy a nice peaceful walk in the park with the deafening sound of pickleball ruins *my* experience. 

        • Alki resident October 31, 2023 (9:33 pm)

          Good thing the park is huge enough to accommodate you and pickle ball players. 

        • Sampras November 1, 2023 (7:30 am)

          Great, we agree. Pickleball is a nuisance. The courts in the parks should be resurfaced for tennis. Problem solved. Pickleball is a fad.

    • TM October 31, 2023 (9:33 pm)

      “Why can’t they just convert some of the tennis courts at Soltice park, which is very close to Lincoln Park, to be “hybrid courts”?”

      Many tennis players are sick of pickleballers taking over courts. Google “pickleball tennis wars”, it’s well documented. The Solstice plan, which was Parks’ original and published (and significantly less expensive plan) was kaiboshed by tennis players’ influence.

  • WS resident October 31, 2023 (7:14 pm)

    What a waste of taxpayer money 

  • Protect the Park October 31, 2023 (7:26 pm)

    Finally!Thanks to P&Rec for starting the process of finally listening to the overwhelming public pushback against this project!Hats off to all the folks that stood up for the park and moved the city off their “this is being built and there’s nothing you can do to stop it” position. Let’s keep pushing folks! This is but the first small step  in getting this unnecessary project cancelled permanently. 

    • Ryan October 31, 2023 (8:54 pm)

      I think you’ll be disappointed… and shame on you and a handful of others for being bullies and trying to take this opportunity from the community!

      • TM October 31, 2023 (9:39 pm)

        “shame on you and a handful of others for being bullies and trying to take this opportunity from the community!”

        “The community” has plenty of options for pickleball, with more on the way. Nobody is trying to take away pickleball. The community also enjoys Lincoln Park in its current state. It’s not a neglected resource, thousands of people enjoy the trails there daily.

      • Jim November 1, 2023 (1:53 pm)

        But you’re fine with parks proceeding illegally and skirting the normally required process for putting this in by using a loophole claiming it’s an already existent site even though it’s been abandoned for decades?!

        • Teti November 3, 2023 (5:24 pm)

          Jim, exactly.  Our new Parks Department Leader has not impressed me with how he has handled this situation, nor has Mayor Harrell…

    • Alki resident October 31, 2023 (9:35 pm)

      Unnecessary for whom? Just because you don’t play it doesn’t mean others don’t love it. Move along with your negativity. This is just a small bump in the road. 

    • Dioversityinpark November 1, 2023 (7:56 pm)

      Protect the Park,
      maybe you were one of the two dozen people picketing claiming to be the representing ‘overwhelming public pushback?” 

      Is the disappointing turnout a result of the  6,000 petition signers realizing they have been duped.  

      Maybe 24 to 36 people out of 6,000!

  • Rhonda October 31, 2023 (7:34 pm)

    • Jackson K November 1, 2023 (6:13 am)

      Oh Rhonda. I hope you’ll come play with us at the new courts. 

      • Rhonda November 1, 2023 (12:35 pm)

        Maybe I’ll bring my canned air horn and 160 decibel electric megaphone…..since noise doesn’t affect your park experience.

        • evanpetersnottheactor November 1, 2023 (3:44 pm)

          Lol so you’re upset about 70 decibels impacting someone’s park experience, yet you are threatening to bring devices more than 2 times louder, to do what exactly? That’s such a silly and hypocritical threat to make and totally contradicts the greater message of noise pollution harming wildlife. This is why people don’t take you all seriously. 

          • Rhonda November 1, 2023 (5:00 pm)

            sar·casm/ˈsärˌkazəm/noun

            1. the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.“his voice, hardened by sarcasm, could not hide his resentment”
          • evanpetersnottheactor November 1, 2023 (6:47 pm)

            Oh Rhonda, you really got me with that sarcasm lol 

  • Bob October 31, 2023 (7:35 pm)

    Absolutely absurd that they caved to the bird gang. Are we going to appease the gondola folks next? Dear lord.

    • bill October 31, 2023 (8:26 pm)

      Surely gondolas and the wires would threaten birds! I’ll make the popcorn….

  • Erech Overaker October 31, 2023 (7:39 pm)

    If you actually have an opinion that is either pro or con on this pickle ball debacle, I genuinely hate you. 

    • K. Davis October 31, 2023 (7:53 pm)

      Best comment yet.    I’m ambivalent about this and genuinely don’t care what happens, but I do have to say as a spectator on the sidelines that the anti-pickle ball people win the award for most nuts.  IMHO.  

    • Neighbor November 1, 2023 (12:44 am)

      Preach apathy.  The world needs more indifference.

      • SE Dick November 1, 2023 (1:34 pm)

        “Neighbor”! I have been thinkin of U. Yr 1 comment back there in the 3rd of 4 WSB reports and then-~600 comments on this enlightened idea set out to address none of that, not a whit, not one responsive word to anything, let alone the or any argument I’d made but to *try* to, at least (it was rilly kinda cute) look down yr nose at me–well but the nose of ChatGPT!–to let me know y’all thought haughtily little of my syntax and punctuation. I’ve thought of some things ya might do instead that could really contribute to this debate, and I wanna put em here, in OUR forum, today, for more eyes to maybe see, to *promote* that possibility, and to btr OUT you people, OUT you (maybe not you *personally*, given wot y’ve now said) you damn blots on the Ideals of this Democracy–*not* your faces, *not* your crowd size, *not* your “true” identities to target–but your *thinking*, your *ideas*, your *values* and *positions* such as they are, that you trot out instead of discoursing. (Had to fight my device to use that wrd.) So that thought, my suggests, WSB willing, will follow this–like I’ve said before to make this-n-that more–more! a little bit!–like tweets loud ppl might take in–bc ‘bill’ is back! Snarkin! And i think it was bill–not certain, not gonna go back myself to confirm, aready read it all, I’ma jus thow dis out, dsnt mtr–but I *think* it was bill taught me what TL;DR means. (Well, taught me more of what ppl R made of once I’d googled it.) Anyway №1! №2 to follow! I think they’re short!

      • SE Dick November 1, 2023 (1:52 pm)

        №2!  Yknow Nabe, if you an yr salon got some time on yr hands and want to put yr new proxy ChatG to btr use than trying to put me and what strikes y’all and clearly others as my impenetrability and/or holier-than in myour place, you might riddle It this: “Chat (you don’t mind…?) we’ve fed into you all ~600 posts here. 1st, pls” (you don’t say ‘pls’ to Alexa, but this fuc*er’s scary) “break them all into one camp or the other: Speetches or Speetches with p**b*s.  2) thru yr godlike analysis of each school or team’s use of language, tell us how many authors, not WSB blog comment Names, there actually are: here, and thar.  Third, subject all the *team’s* posts, Speetches w p**b*s’, to the same Masterful dissection, and distill from that how many of them [pl.] are or were–still don’t see them [sin.] here yet, like they’ve vanished with a Whooosh! and fallen silent,  which as U know is not possible–really Divert–(no, kidding CGT, but you knew that)–Diversityinpark.  IV, gather all variations of the comment Name Divert” (an ya tap Chat’s ‘wink’ thing) “together and tell us what’s going on there. (Could be they don’t want simple searches to do that, could be real human failings that might yank the leash of human attack dogs, could be multiple authors… or something… could be Jethro, could be an already treacherous tho hamhanded You, could be a lot of things.) Let’s have it: The Truth. Five, do the same w Divert’s” (winky wink) “posts and lay bare wtf Oct 28’s 10:05pm big reveal or obfuscation aftr 7 days of sniper-fire was rilly abt. Pixie-styx, pls fully savor and digest, GPT, the posts of Speetches with p**b*s and tell us, truthfully, precisely where the amalgamated content of thars lands on the time-honored spectrum of Pure Horsesh**. Then, (this last is Command, not Query) bow, you miserable curse of modernity, to the magnificence of human Reason shot thru with and transformed! Beatified! Amplified and expanded like a collapsing sun! by the Passion–(*such* etymology!)–and compassion and! And! Humility! of Lincoln! of Whitman! of Muir! and Ed Begley! probably Madonna! (sort of) as embodied in (all ppl, originally, theoretically, but here *esp* in… wait for it…) in SE! *Bow*, mo**fo**!!” you might ask It. Kill some time. Just a thought. (*Then*–this is sheer meta-cosmic-clownin’!–ask It to tell You to whom/what that last was addressed.) So, how many beers? For the table? Just a guess?

  • Alki resident October 31, 2023 (7:43 pm)

    So parks dept and Diaz and Herbold walk into a bar…. Sit down for two weeks to watch bird videos and get schooled. Could this get any funnier and pathetic? Yes, I’m sure it will. The weather has been perfect to get this court knocked out. But the minority get to once again delay something they know nothing about. 

    • Protect the Park October 31, 2023 (7:54 pm)

      Again, Sarah you are the minority here. Stating other wise doesn’t make it true. The “opposition ” aka the majority, has all the data and facts on their side. Please dig in so that you can participate in a constructive and meaningful way. If you have something constructive and peer reviewed please post?  If not, your uncivil comments undermine what ever argument you think you are making. 

      • North Delridge October 31, 2023 (8:50 pm)

        To borrow a political term, the silent majority frankly think the NIMBYs here look ridiculous.

        • Alayna October 31, 2023 (9:48 pm)

          Everyone keeps saying NIMBYs but I’d much rather have pickleball much closer to my house at Solstice than in the middle of the quiet forest. Lincoln Park isn’t anyone’s backyard, it’s a park for everyone including the wildlife that lives there. Pickleball is crazy loud, I’d be fine with those courts being regular tennis courts again and have Solstice be all pickleball. Just keep the super loud racket away from the wildlife.

          • Diversityinpark November 1, 2023 (8:01 pm)

            Please visit the park,  just stop and listen.  The site of the old courts is not quiet.

        • nope October 31, 2023 (10:57 pm)

          You must hang out with a different silent majority than I do. Most people I know are against the courts. 

          • Josh November 1, 2023 (9:06 am)

            I think that is the whole problem with the current political climate in this country.  Everyone only recognizes the voices of those they agree with.  Noone knows who is in the majority on this issue and it honestly doesnt matter, the outcome of this will not be determined by majority vote.I for one am fine with pickleball going into the park.  I would rather have that then the trucks that drive back and forth through the park to get to the storage materials several times a day.  I dont think the loud noise of pickleball that will likely be heard for about 2 to 4 hours a day 5 days a week for 3 months a year is going to be that much more intrusive to the birds or the people who are in that area of that park than the noise and commotion that occur year round.  But I also am not an expert on birds and do appreciate the biodiversity in the park.  Regardless of my personal stance I do think the anti pickleball court group is disingenuous in their concerns and are either just plain old cranky get off my lawn types or dont understand the limitations of their own knowledge and bias.  For example one of the leaders of the ‘save the birds’ faction is apparently known to have an indoor/outdoor cat.  Anyone who claims to care about wildlife and birds loses any credibility in their position against this issue by claiming their concern is about protecting biodiversity when their little pet is out there slaughtering songbirds just for fun.

      • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (12:28 am)

        Hi, I’m the Sarah you’re looking for. I don’t think AlkiResident is Sarah, though they could be. I was out with my family for Halloween, but did forward this SPR email to WSB after receiving it around 3:50 PM (I had emailed earlier this month expressing support of the project).Yes, I strongly disagree with your stance and your demands, based on the science presented. Light pollution is a concern for wildlife; as we knew all along and as SPR states here, lights are officially out of scope. All other concerns were exceptionally conservative, at minimum. This is a public, urban park. There is already a fairly high ambient noise level in this area due to the adjacent sports fields, restrooms, and playground. There is minimal data to support generic concerns of threat to wildlife. The wildlife in that area is largely invasive and adapted to human environments. 

        • Alki resident November 1, 2023 (8:31 am)

          Sarah there used to be lightning at the tennis court. There were tons of birds and wildlife. 

    • bill October 31, 2023 (8:28 pm)

      “talk with experts on Seattle’s bird populations”. At least they are going to talk with people who know the subject instead of holding public meetings to listen to folks who “have done their own research.”

      • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (12:30 am)

        I wrote back on this email expressing hope that they don’t just use Kersti and some other random person from BCS as “bird experts”; here’s hoping they consult a neutral ornithologist.

  • MB audio engineer October 31, 2023 (7:56 pm)

    I’m surprised they don’t seem to be considering the impact of pickleball as an activity that will greatly increase harmful noise pollution *for people* in a park that is loved by many for its beautiful natural soundscape.

    Noise pollution is one of the biggest complaints I’ve heard about from other pickleball locations.

    People often don’t think about noise pollution because it’s invisible—unlike a having garbage strewn all over the park. But this is essentially what pickleball will do for everyone in the park who is not involved in the game. It defiles the sonic environment for anyone who enjoys the park for its natural beauty. We all share the same air.

    Having access to beautiful natural soundscapes is as important for our public health as pickleball. We should be able to accommodate both in the Seattle Park system—whose original master plan was created by the legendary Olmstead Brothers, who deeply valued the restorative qualities of beautiful parks and their natural soundscapes for the whole community.

    • wsgal October 31, 2023 (9:42 pm)

      Well said – agreed!

    • Alayna October 31, 2023 (9:51 pm)

      We moved to this area just to be near Lincoln Park. The quiet nature and observing wildlife there kept me sane during 2020. It’d be a shame to put such a loud, distracting court right in the middle of it. Put it anywhere else that’s away from nature. 

      • Cam November 1, 2023 (3:56 pm)

        If only there was the whole rest of the park for you to explore! Woe is you!

    • Chris October 31, 2023 (10:36 pm)

      Thank you.  You are absolutely right.

      • Jackson K November 1, 2023 (6:19 am)

        This is a multi level 120 acre park. The courts will take up less than half an acre. 

        • Alayna November 1, 2023 (2:01 pm)

          It isn’t the space that’s the issue, it’s how very loud the sport is. 

    • Diversityinpark November 1, 2023 (8:15 pm)

      MB audio engineer.  I request your help to please  pack up your dB meter and head to the Walt Hundley Park pickleball courts and measure the sound levels from the adjacent sidewalk.  Compare them, if you can separate them from, the childrens’ play area from the sidewalk adjacent the play area.  Now visit Lincoln Park.  Please measure sound levels at the parking lot, athletic field kids area, the off leash dog ‘meadow’ and the sound at the bluff road at end of construction fence.  This is where I can still hear the white noise of traffic, the squeal of the rail yards and the out of sight jets of Boeing Field.  The park is directly under restricted air space for small aircraft, which brings them lower and louder. 

    • KH November 2, 2023 (10:39 pm)

      Audio EngineerInterested in helping us out? Thank you for your contribution here. We do need to be talking more about noise pollution caused by pickleball. It’s impulsivity, high pitch and the long duration of play are just some of the noise issues being fought nationwide.  Lincoln Park is a quiet oasis for people not just for wildlife.

  • Scarlett October 31, 2023 (7:56 pm)

    With this pause, it is a golden opportunity to collect precise noise (lighting) and bird population density, nesting etc, etc., data ahead of the planned pickleball court installation.  Even though before and after results will be skewed by construction activity (if courts do go ahead)  it would still be worthwhile to add to the ornithological literature.  

    • SE Dick October 31, 2023 (10:17 pm)

      ScarlettOctober 28, 2023 1:36 amI’ve never such shoddy use of research studies to support opposition to a pickleball courts.  The lack of scientific training in this country is appalling, and typified by those “environmentalists” who rip a scary headline from a study abstract, never having read the entire study.  Most wouldn’t know statistical significance from clinical significance or a confidence interval from a “confidence man.”  Please, don’t taint science with your fumblings for purpose and meaning in life. You are clearly the expert, and know btr than any what your real motive is. So pls instruct as to study objective, methodology, controls, and of course eetcetera–and clearly in the best case you do it yrself. Plus, my challenge in answer to your post Scarlett  October 29, 2023 11:54 pm  in the last thread–  

      LINCOLN PARK PICKLEBALL? Councilmember Herbold asks Parks to host public meeting

       October 27, 2023 7:59 pm.    to rhetorical throwdown absolutely stands and will stand until you put up or shut up. That’s as polite as you get.

      • SE Dick October 31, 2023 (11:56 pm)

        I’m sorry.     My SE DickOctober 31, 2023 11:36 pm    was intended to attach in response to         ScarlettOctober 31, 2023 10:33 pm      and I hope this makes that clearer.  Must be my device or me.  I’d like to at least keep it legible, for the few. Fingers crossed, here we go:

      • SE Dick November 1, 2023 (12:26 am)

        And *this* post of mine     SE Dick  October 31, 2023 10:17 pm.   is a copypaste trainwreck, attached correctly in answer but all mashed up together.   If anyone would decipher:  s/b a break right away at amI’ve–‘1:36am. I’ve never such shoddy’–[sic]. Four sentences later, break at the period, which divides this <ahem> person’s splatter from me: they end, ‘meaning in life.’   ‘You are clearly’  I lay in.  Then the big headline, and the date goes with that; do this over like this:   ‘–to rhetorical’  and it all makes more sense. Of destructive nonsense. So sorry thanks and goodnight. (And good luck.)

  • frantic October 31, 2023 (7:59 pm)

    The PB crowd keeps mocking the anti-PB crowd, blowing off their concerns as ridiculous.  I don’t understand why the PBers are so frantic to have the courts at Lincoln Park.  I know the striping plan at Solstice got called off, but that sure seemed like a good solution that didn’t require a big change to a dearly-loved park.  It’s so discouraging when the proponents of something stoop to name-calling and insults to push for what they want.  (and that goes for both sides)  It just seems strange how strident and frantic the PBers are about having it in Lincoln Park, and resistant to a community discussion about it.  And do note that the Parks just say lighting will not be pursued “at this time”.  Which surely implies it will be pursued at a later point.  The lighting issue does seem like it warrants consideration.

    • Alki resident November 1, 2023 (8:35 am)

      The pickle ball players sat back and watched the “ frantic” neigh sayers. The frantic neigh sayers called every news station they could. They even came up with a petition with false information. So who’s the frantic ones again?

      • TM November 1, 2023 (10:20 am)

        “The pickle ball players sat back and watched the “ frantic” neigh sayers”

        Sat back? Alki Resident, you yourself have made scores of posts that include dismissive, gloating, and misleading language and content. Come on now.

        • IHeartBPP November 1, 2023 (12:29 pm)

          TM, YES!  Alki Resident (sort of), you’ve been frantically mocking and dismissing nearly every post criticizing the courts.  Who’s the frantic one, again?  Yeah, take a seat. 

    • SE Dick November 2, 2023 (1:39 am)

      frantic, you somehow seem authentically unsullied by all this, like you don’t feel you need a shower yet and, on the other side, like yer not a lying dbl agent. And something is very strange abt the tenacity of a group of comment Names w/o a rational bone among them to scrap over, all swearing they don’t play from between jaws you couldn’t pry off this thing with a tire iron. You close w ‘light’. If you want one, a quick catch-up: on the last avalanche SWB intro’d and heroically processed on this,  https://westseattleblog.com/2023/10/lincoln-park-pickleball-councilmember-herbold-asks-parks-to-host-public-meeting/&nbsp;   I offered a study, provided its headline for those too lazy to click a link or, unfazed, droning without pause that they’re never spoon-fed any.   on the link, here’s the first thing it would say, big letters: Noise pollution causes chronic stress in birds, with health consequences for young.” And here’s the great thing…    One of these multiples I call Divertadversitytopark quickly answered with their first ever study  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-31337-w#:~:text=Additionally%2C%20birds%20can%20adapt%20to,noise%20on%20avian%20communities59.Reply  and an excerpt that seemed strong statement to the contrary of mine. I clicked the link, found it to be as inscrutable as Klingon, but dove in. Found the excerpt to have been almost necessarily deliberately misleading, a headline that beyond having been said not to exist strongly supported that theory, found the main conclusion of Divert’s study a strong support of complex biodiverse greenscapes, and I think its penultimate point: “Instead, our models suggest that the degree of light pollution more significantly impacts avian communities’ composition.” And Denise, GBH, others sagely point out: this is all a smokescreen. Lights–guaranteed–are planned—if off the record--for Lincoln Park.    So, frantic, I think somehow the lighting is a really big thing, both surely for any ‘natural’ surroundings and as a feared kill switch for this poisonous idea. I think not p**b** but filthy lucre is really driving this strange campaign, or p**b**’s frenzied foot soldiers unknowingly serve somebody’s bigger agenda. Divert does some really weird things, and at one point interjected the phrase ‘commercial real estate’ I think–complete non-sequitur–into some ‘exchange’. Jen here seems to sit on a wealth of big-picture knowledge. Maybe she can put 2 and 2 together in time. Hope yer as I read ya. I been wrong b4.

  • R2 October 31, 2023 (8:01 pm)

    I’m having a hard time believing that something that brings people together, that makes some people happy, that doesn’t in any direct way cause harm to anyone or anything, makes others so upset.There will not be piles of bird carcasses resulting from every game. It won’t result in damage to property, or harm to people. In twenty years the pickle ball craze could very well die a quiet death, like jazzersize, or disco roller skating, and the courts may revert to storage space once again. Judging by the outrage, you’d think they were going to be killing babies.Sheesh!

    • Alayna October 31, 2023 (9:56 pm)

      The problem is pickleball is VERY loud and the area the court is going in to is very quiet and next to a dense nature population. There’s a bald eagle nest a couple hundred feet away, I’ve seen owls right around there too. It’s also right next to the biggest nature path in the park that’s not along the water.  That loud noise would disrupt anyone walking, not to mention what it might do to all the animals in the vicinity. I just want it to go anywhere that isn’t next to all that wildlife. 

      • CDWS November 1, 2023 (8:27 am)

        OK. Then what do we do about the sports fields, the playgrounds, the parties at picnic shelters (with their often loud music), the wading pool, and large swimming pool… not to mention the traffic noise?I don’t have a dog in this fight, but people are making it out like Lincoln Park is some hushed nature preserve, when human-generated noises are already constant there.Honestly, it makes me think that the nature and noise concerns are a pretext for the real problem:  folk who see LP as their personal backyard, who don’t like the traffic and parking problems that come with people actually using the park.

        • SE Dick November 1, 2023 (10:40 am)

          Yeah you got me, CDWS–been there maybe 5 times total, 37yrs greater Sea, 1nce to see for myself what was going on here. (Over there.) ~600 posts prior, CDdubya; you are just uninformed: scroll on, Columbia scroll on or what? would be appropriate? do you think?

        • KH November 2, 2023 (10:43 pm)

          Pickleball noise is different from all the other noise you mention. One scientist likened the pitch to being like the noise of a garbage truck backing up. 

      • Diverssityinpark November 2, 2023 (9:16 am)

        Alayna,
        If the sounds of pickleball at this location in the park fell within or below the ambient noise level already present,
        (the area of the meadow and courts is not quiet as most assume),
        would that change your position?  

        In other words,
        if empirical proof contradicts your opinion,
        would you reconsider?

        • SE Dick November 3, 2023 (12:41 am)

          Devious genius: 2000 ppl are early to a Hawks game. They’re a soothing murmur, from afar, in the stands. Two by two, ppl filter in, so far beneath the ambient level as to be imperceptible. Do they add? *I* can’t hear it. Unarguably. Two by two, forty at a time (one of JK’s taunting tourneys) Alki or JSarah’s gangs from Puyallup. Two by two by forty-four more, times 1000. To a big 68,000 Sunday. Blue Thunder. Yay! Helicopters! Explosions! What is it abt this you think ppl who manage to get their pants on can’t see? The endless inane repetition doesn’t make it make sense! Try two! Plus two! Is always! Effin four!

    • Cat Girl November 1, 2023 (7:13 am)

      Pickle Ball obviously does not bring all people together. Maybe the players, but it is incredibly loud and annoying to hear. This is a quiet place in the park with birds nesting close by. Play pickle ball all you want, we’re just asking you to not do it in Lincoln Park. 

  • Weak supporters October 31, 2023 (8:08 pm)

    These protesters are picking on pickleball for sure, and they don’t have a leg to stand on for supporting ‘birds’ and ‘wildlife’. Go protest a pipeline project if you are that into it. And where were you for the Lowmam Beach projects? Where will you be for the ferry dock proposals?

    • wsgal October 31, 2023 (9:07 pm)

      The ferry dock already exists and needs to be to updated for safety purposes… And Lowman beach projects? As in, removing away the un-used tennis courts for more green space? Not sure you have a good argument here.

    • bolo October 31, 2023 (9:10 pm)

      Wait– I thought the Lowmam Beach projects was for removing the tennis court there and reverting the area back to a natural seashore landscape? Did I miss something? Sorry, not following your argument…

  • TJ October 31, 2023 (8:09 pm)

    I guess the impact will be birds flying to a tree 15 feet away. Big wow. Most people see the stupidity of using wildlife as a excuse to try and stop what will be using a existing concrete slab for people to exercise. Such a ridiculous thing to protest, in a city known for dumb protests. 

  • Gladyis Pierce October 31, 2023 (8:23 pm)

    Just do it and get it done while there is still some decent weather! The courts are already there and people just need to get over it and stop whining!

    • TM October 31, 2023 (9:48 pm)

      “The courts are already there and people just need to get over it and stop whining!”

      There’s a hammered, pitted cement slab that was last used for storage. Go look for yourself. Thirty years prior it was used for tennis, a different use and impact. It’s going to cost $140,000 to make pickleball courts there. 

    • alice October 31, 2023 (10:46 pm)

      Dear Gladyis, we live in a democracy.  5000+ people have signed a petition saying they don’t want this. That’s not whining, that’s exercising our rights. And it’s something that citizens shouldn’t have to do in this situation;  SPR should have done their due diligence and ASKED the community what they wanted before they made the unilateral decision to do it.  Here’s the petition (or as Gladyis calls it, “whining” ): https://www.change.org/p/preserve-lincoln-park-s-natural-balance

      • Diversityinpark November 1, 2023 (8:25 pm)

        Actually Alice,
        I was taught we live in a “representative democracy,’  not your “direct democracy.”  

        We elect representatives just to avoid the fiasco that 5,000+ signatures (a tiny minority of the population) is causing.  

  • WS Resident October 31, 2023 (8:24 pm)

    Would the courts be open all night? I would feel bad for the residents near by if they have to listen to the clank clank sounds all night. Especially near the water. 

    • Alki resident October 31, 2023 (9:44 pm)

      Lincoln Park has daily hours posted

  • wsgal October 31, 2023 (8:28 pm)

    I am so grateful Seattle Parks is listening to the THOUSANDS of people who are against the court construction for the fad-sport. Every time I visit Lincoln Park, the tennis courts are completely empty. Pickleball players — just play there. The endless leash-less dogs are enough of a nuisance in the park, no need for construction and a court that will likely just end up empty like the tennis courts. Save the money for hiring staff to keep care of the park. Keep our green spaces green, they’re few and far between. 

    • Alki resident October 31, 2023 (9:43 pm)

      There is no construction and by that comment, it’s more proof how you thousands of people have been mislead by that petition you had no facts to go on. Thousands of people who don’t play pickle ball but want to prevent thousands more from playing it at Lincoln Park. There are 5 million players that play this fad sport. Crazy isn’t it? I hate being mislead, don’t you?

      • Cat Girl November 1, 2023 (6:51 am)

        There may be 5 million pickle ball players in the entire world, but there are billions more people who don’t play. Billions more people enjoy a quiet walk without hearing loud noises from a fad “sport”.  Go play somewhere else. 

      • IHeartBPP November 1, 2023 (12:30 pm)

        I have not been mislead by anyone, exept by the Parks Department. That’s why I oppose the courts. 

        • iversityinpark November 1, 2023 (8:28 pm)

          I too heart Lincoln Park,
          but if you believe the propaganda and false unproven assertions of the petition,
          then you have been mislead,
          factually.

    • Cam November 1, 2023 (4:00 pm)

      “Pickleball players — just play there. “That’s literally the proposal. They’re going to paint pickleball lines on the existing unused tennis courts. That’s it. 

  • DBurns October 31, 2023 (8:44 pm)

    I sincerely hope that all of the kind people who are so passionate about the comfort of birds take a moment to run by the Warming Shelter at 3618 SW Alaska St (The Veteran’s Hall with the giant cannon in front!) and offer something to the unsheltered folks in our community who need coats, hats, sweatshirts, socks, gloves, boots, soup, bottled water, hot cocoa mix, ground coffee, grocery store gift cards, and more – to survive in this very cold weather. PLEASE DON’T FORGET ABOUT THESE FOLKS – IT’S A SIMPLE WAY TO HELP :)

    • Jen November 1, 2023 (2:07 pm)

      I’ve found that people who have care for nature, are the same people willing to reach a hand out to help people too.And those who belligerently say “birds can go fly to another tree” are the same ones who support mercilously sweeping the homeless from one place to the next.  There us no limit on caring, or helping.  Speaking up, and acting, when you know it’s the right thing to do is how we make GOOD change, and actual progress.  Many veterans and others who suffer from PTSD find comfort in quieter, natural spaces.  One of the reasons I support the city in finding another, suitable location for more pickleball courts.  As we increase in population, finding a quiet natural space accessible to in city folk will be harder and harder.  Seattle can be both able-ist and age-ist.  Well, and class-ist too.. more of us will be living in smaller units in a loud city, I really want everyone to have access to nature without having to “gear up” and trek to the mountains.. lots of us dont have the time, ability, or money for that.  I’d like to see the hardscape removed, and more habitat added.  The trees surrounding the old court are huge now, and maybe adding a gathering space, seating or interpretive path would create a very healing space for some who have a hard time living in such an able-ist city.  

      • SE Dick November 1, 2023 (5:16 pm)

        If I use the word ‘birdsong’, Jen, many folks here will bray like donkeys loud and long, so I’ll say yr wrds r like a breath of fresh air to ppl trailblazing in a shi*storm. The removal of the ‘hardscape’, to angry minds only a ‘slab’, is the thing here. Its existence is understood and brayed to justify the installation of a nuclear (nucular) effing launch pad, if that’s what we g**d* want, you nature-loving-words-we-aren’t-allowed-to- say-anymore. What would be required to make that court suitable for play again after 60yrs of tree growth and 30yrs I’m told of supporting the frequent constant daily sometime occasional traffic of heavy machinery has been deliberately misrepresented by super-frequent posters here: ‘like a new coat of paint on a house’. That’s just a lie. We’ve heard lies in years past. We’ve heard them branded ‘alternative facts’. This is the same campaign, eating away at the same fabric. I was wrong early on: this wldn’t have been smuggled in as the “maintenance of an existing facility”. I put my money on the wrong horse. This wld be–wlda bin?–tarted up as the “remodeling of an existing structure”. Either one would be exempt under law from SEPA review or public comment, and that language looked loopholey enough I thought it buried this. Then I went and saw yr hardscape. They got fences now. Somebody–not Divertattentioninpark–with a laser level goes to that site, goes to the end where the trees are too giant for any two of us to join hands around the trunks, and gets some measures, strikes some levels and plumbs. G**d** slab is like a busted-up ice floe. Inches out if level. Cracked. Buckled. Heaved up. Put a coat of paint on it, Divert. Lipstick on a pig (how do I find you?) Have a ball. But that slab will have, in whole or in part, to be replaced, not remodeled. Legal language is no fool. Replaced is not remodeled. Ergo (jus tryin to be fancy) review and comment (caution, prudence, equity) is mandated by the laws with which we guide direct and govern our behavior all day long. Why this is happening I can’t explain. Tearing that concrete up would savage those big ol’ roots and in time likely kill those trees. Even Big Lie that Emerald City canopy protection is, that can’t be right. But say it isn’t so–‘yer trees are fine, bad word’–we do it anyway, pour a new sports court in Paradise for all the loudmouths to enjoy. ‘Trees are just fine! They can take years to die but I don’t know that! Told you so!’ So they live on, mighty guardians. The new courts slowly, like the slow incremental accumulation of an ecosystem–‘I never heard of that! It’s stupid!–start to buckle. ‘But we got ’em in! *Gawd* can you blv those effing ecos. But now what we rilly need… is lights.’ Why this is threatened, with such a vengeance, I don’t know. Your thoughts and words, Jen, your ideas, are wise gentle and beautiful. Sorry to besmirch them. This is a dirty fuc*in fight.

  • Jort October 31, 2023 (9:29 pm)

    It’s obvious that this about much more than “pickleball.” What we’re seeing here seems to be a proxy battle between a constituency that is used to getting its way about whatever they want in city politics (the generally homogenous “neighborhood association” adjacent busybody crowd) and people who are, frankly, beyond tired of this group purporting to represent the broad needs of the far more diverse community (and mostly don’t even care about pickleball!).  The busybody crowd likes to use “public forums” and petitions and those kinds of totally non-representative, non-democratic means to bully city officials into deciding that making any kinds of changes of any kind of benefit to anybody else in the city is just too much hassle to deal with. They don’t like it when they can’t weaponize the Seattle Process to get their way. Lincoln Park is not a wildlife preserve. Want wilderness? Good news: the state of Washington has 4.4 million acres of wilderness! And the largely undeveloped Fauntleroy Park is a mere half mile away, chock full of birdy birds. But, again, let’s be clear here: the opponents of the MegaPicklePlex aren’t opposed to the pickleball courts because of their purported (and unsupported by any research) effects on birds, etc. They’re opposed to the courts because Parks did something without their permission, and they. are. furious. These people do not run our parks. I encourage all West Seattle residents who are tired of these people acting as though they speak on your behalf to stand up and fight back.

    • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (12:38 am)

      Exactly. And yes, when I got this email because I had previously emailed my support, I responded my reiterating my support and urging they seek expertise beyond the protecting group. 

    • SE Dick November 1, 2023 (12:50 am)

      You could not be more correct that it’s “about much more than “pickleball.”  But from there yer (clearly well accustomed to) straight-up bloviatin’. There are ~600 posts preceding you(r comments Name) on the topic, many of which make bangin’ airtight arguments that blow yr blov- straight to hell–and I *challenge* you, man, *straight* *up*, to read respond and substantively, logically dispute or disprove any one of them, specifically, with any valid point. Right here. Ppl’s shouting match. ‘For the ppl: Jort.’ (There are rules.) Or you’re full of it. Aaaaaaannd, so it goes. (That’s a challenge, man. *Gauntlet*. *You* pick any one. 2+2. You da shi*? Or you full of it?)

      • Jackson K November 1, 2023 (6:26 am)

        The park is 120 acres. Pickleball will take up less than 1 acre. Let’s play! 

      • Huh November 1, 2023 (9:23 am)

        Jort is making perfect sense on this one.SE Dick, your comments are basically unintelligible so they are hard to respond to much less fully grasp.

        • SE Dick November 1, 2023 (12:47 pm)

          Clearly. But super gr8 ya weighed in. Thx fr movin th civic engine–no–no–before the Honda… nevermind. Nirvana!–forward. To our insanely crowded future. It is all over.

    • bill November 1, 2023 (7:14 am)

      To be fair, Jort, Fauntleroy park is a claustrophobic maze of trails, very much more original and natural than curated Lincoln Park’s manicured “nature.”

    • Jen November 1, 2023 (2:19 pm)

      This is about nothing more than putting a noisy use in the middle of needed natural habitat.  Just Wow on your whole spiel.  Aren’t you aware this City consistently goes against the general public in favor of well money-ed lobbyists???  Has nothing to do with what you think.  All our legislation is written by lobbyists and there are no neighborhood councils, or whatever you think there is.  The city throws money and scraps at .orgs on occasion, for a good “equity” photo op, but then the big decisions are actually made downtown behind closed doors.  Industry, the Port, Real Estate.. You seem to be looking for enemies but you are barking up the wrong tree.  We all need to be asking why the city is not buying and creating MORE PARK ACREAGE as we densify.. because they are supposed to as we add density. Then there’s the promise to increase tree canopy in environmental justice communities while they re-write the tree ordinance to allow every tree to be scraped on the lot.  Go after the city, and do the research, no residents in Seattle actually have power. 

      • Diversityinpark November 2, 2023 (9:30 am)

          “Aren’t you aware this City consistently goes against the general public in favor of well money-ed lobbyists???”  

        Jen,
        Are you referring to the Audubon Society, now Seattle Bird Connect’s success with their multi-million dollar lobbying?

        And just whose neighborhood do you propose scraping of homes, evicting families, Seattle  “buying and creating MORE PARK ACREAGE as we densify.”

        The prime purpose of urban density is efficiency, reduced carbon footprint and protecting our wonderous mountains and forestlands by limiting urban spread and development. 

    • MadisonLocal November 1, 2023 (2:54 pm)

      +1 with Jort. 

  • star 55 October 31, 2023 (10:03 pm)

    Absolutely crazy. There is so much activity in Lincoln Park it is hard to imagine this is going to make a difference. Maybe those in favor need to make more noise!!! keep on moving with the project is my vote and I don’t play pickleball.

  • JustSarah October 31, 2023 (10:14 pm)

    I sent a message of support to Seattle Parks leadership from the start. After getting this message, I’m concerned that the vocal minority is, yet again, getting its way. The leader of this resistance has herself been resistant to revealing her educational credentials to lead this movement. So, some of us are concerned.  My hope is that they consult with biology/ornithologists who can honestly speak to potential impacts, and not just those who are already opposed to the project.I’m disappointed, overall, that a small group of vocal opponents managed to connect with the “right” people to get their way. But I should no by now, as a lifelong Seattleite about to turn 40, that this is the Seattle process. 

  • SE Dick October 31, 2023 (10:20 pm)

    Wow that didnt copypaste well at all–can I retract *that*?? I hope so, again I’m sorry, if i don’t see it I’ll re-do tomorrow. Thx WSB.

  • Scarlett October 31, 2023 (10:33 pm)

    I like grassroots advocacy.  I like people who are passionate about an issue.  I question placing the pickleball court at Lincoln Park when other sites might be less controversial.  

    However, what I intensely dislike is when so-called “citizen environmentalists” misuse research to make catastrophic claims when that same research often uses carefully calibrated language (and caveats) to avoid making those same careless, castastrophic claims.   I wonder if these self-described environmentalists have ever bothered to read research studies from which they skim scary headlines or if  they have the analytical/mathematical skills (schooling or auto-didactic) to draw informed, reasonable conclusions – not “the sky is falling,” hysteria – from said studies.   

    Unfortunately,  environmentalism in the past decades has increasingly become a human search for purpose and meaning rather than a search for the truth about the environment.  Ironically, the more environmentalism pretends to be about the environment, the more it becomes another outlet for human-centeredness.    

    • justthinking October 31, 2023 (11:20 pm)

      Scarlett, the protest is supported by Birds Connect (FKA Seattle Audubon). Pretty qualified. 

      • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (12:42 am)

        Because Kersti Muul is a volunteer. They’re doing a favor for a volunteer because there is minimal risk in rubber-stamping “birds don’t like noise!” generic cause-marketing to supporters. 

        • heartless November 1, 2023 (7:31 am)

          No offense intended, but since you mentioned her–I am under the impression Ms Muul is just an amateur interested in bird.  Does she work for an organization, or just “freelance”?  I guess I’m just wondering what her credentials are (eg, degrees in relevant fields) or if she’s just more of an activist than scientist.  Again–we need both, I really don’t mean any disrespect, just trying to get some clarity.  Anyone know (I’d address this to her but she seems absent from these sections)?

        • callingyouout November 1, 2023 (10:01 pm)

          You really think that Birds Connect (Seattle Audubon) is going to challenge Seattle Parks because a volunteer asked them to? You are saying that one of the top conservation organizations in the state is going to be like, “ok, this is a little pet project of our volunteer here, so let’s help.” You realize how silly that sounds right?   Birds Connect is supporting this movement because they chose to.  Also, let’s talk about your personal, repeated attacks on Kersti. They’re mean and uncalled for.  She is exercising her right to protest and you need to leave her alone, Sarah. You are behaving like a bully. I also can’t think of anyone whose heart is more in the right place on this one than Kersti. That woman loves and cares for wildlife in West Seattle more than most. Who hikes into ravines to rescue impaired eagles at her own risk and $? Kersti. Who shares out locations of whales in the hopes that people become their advocates on her own time? Kersti. Who takes all the crap from tomato throwers on issues like this? Kersti.  By trashing her you are making her the martyr that we all love even more. 

      • Scarlett November 1, 2023 (8:20 am)

        Re-read my comment, please.  

      • Diversityinpark November 1, 2023 (8:38 pm)

        Birds Connect Seattle is well qualified and funded
        to LOBBY for birds.  
        It is neither scholarly nor scientific in its admirable pursuit of promoting birds. 

    • Cat Girl November 1, 2023 (7:03 am)

      Nonsense! Scarlet and JustSarah are beyond ridiculous to assign nefarious motives to people who care about the environment. There is a massive amount of information out there on the negative effects of noise pollution on birds and humans. The people who don’t want a disruptive pickle ball court in a quiet area, deserve the right to be heard. There are way more of us than the pro pickle ball people.

      • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (4:03 pm)

        Nefarious? No. Overreaching and self-serving? Yes. Good for them for pulling out all the stops with their connections to make this really noisy. 

      • Diversityinpark November 1, 2023 (8:46 pm)

        Please compile a listing of any information out there that is evidence based, and scientific regarding pickleball noise and birds?
         After many requests, getting more “crickets”
        than in the ‘meadow.’

        • SE Dick November 2, 2023 (2:44 pm)

          Pls do my laundry for me, and my ballot–wait… no. But same here.

  • MA October 31, 2023 (10:46 pm)

    Thank you to those who have actively protested this project.  I love playing pickleball and I live within walking distance from Lincoln Park, so yeah, it would be so convenient to just walk over and play, BUT, I also understand how irritating pickleball noise can be, particularly for people in the vicinity who aren’t playing.  I try to stick with indoor play for that reason. Lincoln Park is a place many of us value as a beautiful respite from city noise; sure there are games on the park fields and cross-country meets -great!- those activities don’t generate the loud, persistent pop-pop-pop-pop-popping sounds that pickleball does.  Fellow pickleball players who continue to support this project in the Park: we can do better.       

    • Jenni October 31, 2023 (11:54 pm)

      This right here…👆🏻👆🏻

    • Jackson K November 1, 2023 (6:29 am)

      I don’t understand how a 120 acre park can’t have courts that take up less than an acre. Let’s play! 

    • Cat Girl November 1, 2023 (7:08 am)

      Thank you! We appreciate you! 

    • Patty November 1, 2023 (8:04 am)

      Yes, MA! I love pickleball too, but it makes no sense to install it here in this forested area! Put it out on Fauntleroy Ave where there is already street noise, and away from the quiet respite that is the middle interior of Lincoln Park!

    • TM November 1, 2023 (8:23 am)

      “Thank you to those who have actively protested this project.  I love playing pickleball and I live within walking distance from Lincoln Park, so yeah, it would be so convenient to just walk over and play, BUT, I also understand how irritating pickleball noise can be, particularly for people in the vicinity who aren’t playing.  I try to stick with indoor play for that reason. Lincoln Park is a place many of us value as a beautiful respite from city noise; sure there are games on the park fields and cross-country meets -great!- those activities don’t generate the loud, persistent pop-pop-pop-pop-popping sounds that pickleball does.  Fellow pickleball players who continue to support this project in the Park: we can do better”

      Thanks for posting this, there’s a lot of wisdom here. I know I have been advocating for pausing this project not because I am opposed to pickleball (for the record I am not), rather that there are better options both for pickleball and Lincoln Park.

      Over the last few weeks I have spoken to multiple oickleballers who disagree that this is a good idea. Many of them because they enjoy the park as it is and know that pickleball there would be disruptive noise-wise. I’ve also talked to several who said it’s not ideal because (like tennis players) picklers like to be able to drive by a site and see if courts are open. The Lincoln courts are a 5 minute walk through trees so they don’t provide that opportunity.

      This isn’t a pro-anti pickleball issue. It’s a pro what makes sense issue. And a pro “let’s pause and make sure we poll more than just tennis and pickleball players” to determine what that looks like for Lincoln Park.

      Park users and stakeholders are not either pro or anti pickleball, there’s a mix. It’s clear that there is support for taking a closer look and perhaps exploring options. And there’s no risk in that.

    • HS November 1, 2023 (9:11 am)

      Second this. Also, there are currently 18 outdoor pickleball courts in WS.

      • Cam November 2, 2023 (10:55 am)

        I’m finding 8, where are the others?

  • SE Dick October 31, 2023 (11:36 pm)

    You said just about the same thing in the foregoing thread–https://westseattleblog.com/2023/10/lincoln-park-pickleball-councilmember-herbold-asks-parks-to-host-public-meeting/  –certainly in substance–but in sliming Lisa Z’s offer of a link to a website–http://3billionbirds.org/. You pretended, I think, to debunk the study heralded on that page that had been undertaken by the Smithsonian Cornell Georgetown and others, but I couldn’t find it. And I responded to you, very clearly–but you have to have missed that, so, here again:    ○    What I (how did I miss this?) gotta read another study? Even the ones that on their face or as introduced will clearly support all I’ve read learned and witnessed in the past? Bc you w/o copypasting one specific thing or presenting any substantive counter-evidence or argument to anything wanna snark back at somebody who cares abt something? Ok I will, Scarlett! Cuz I think yr a bully! And then you and I can go toe-to-toe, point counterpoint rebut concede, ok? And in the meantime would you kindly go up or down to any if the myriad logically valid points and responses Divert’s been unable to step up to and do that for them, scientifically? Thx! Here I go! Ok I tried! Clicked the above! What fu**ing study! I can’t find it! Do you mean the one they’re talking about? Georgetown Cornell Smithsonian and the rest? (The other ‘biased’ science-based advocates?) The “report in the world’s leading scientific journal.Published in Science by researchers at seven institutions”? Because i don’t find a link! I really don’t! I don’t know why! It’s on me! I’m just asking! So pls provide the one yr talking abt and I mean that sincerely, not being a Dic*! Then you and I can go, right here, per scientific method and AGAIN! the RULES of logic, as to whether there are “as many ways to interpret a study”–*that* study! *one* study! a *particular* study!–“as this as there are birds”. I await!     ○     And I’m gonna wait til you put up or shut up, but I’m beginning to get that this may be your teevee–just snipin snarkin bullyin bein fancy and pushin alternative facts–so I’ll just see that you’re branded anew with each thread (prophylactic for newbies) until this quiet (!) shady place is protected.Reply

    • Scarlett November 1, 2023 (9:05 am)

      Go back, re-read my comments, digest what I’ve said, and when you’re done come back with an apppropriate, semi- intelligible comment, not an abusive, stream of consciousness rant.  Can you do that for me, Dick?  Or, are you going to issue a challenge to meet in person, you know, in a pistol duel or in the  UFC ring?   

      • SE Dick November 1, 2023 (12:59 pm)

        I read ’em. Choked down evry word. You pretended to be responding to and/or maybe citing from a study. Sciencishly yes (still props to big ‘thro) but definitely implied. I asked that you tell me how to find the link you implied you had or just hint at what study. But nothing. Crickets. Empty set. I don’t want to meet you, I assure you; that’s the last refuge of folks who can’t support what they allege. I want to do it here, Sciency Scarlett. Out in the open, even if yer all Divert. I won’t wait, you’re full of it, but I will be ready. Namasté. (Bait! I don’t know what that means.)

        • Scarlett November 1, 2023 (3:12 pm)

          Meh.  I’m not sure what to do with you.  At first you were mildy amusing, but then you took a dark turn, in language and tone.   Oh, and yes, I thoroughly supported my argument.  But then, you’d have to actually read it, wouldn’t you, SE Dick?  Be a dear, and crawl back into whatever hole you climbed out of.  

  • Old West November 1, 2023 (12:38 am)

    The ridiculousness of this argument is monumental. The original argument these so called wildlife experts were stating was the Park did not have a public meeting. Well here is your public meeting. They argue pickle ball will disrupt wildlife, the wildlife is disrupted daily by baseball games, picnics, soccer, family reunions, and the many other recreational activities the park was created for! This is not a wildlife refuge this a a public park used by the residents for recreation!! West Seattle Blog you have given this way more attention than it deserves!  Not one article was written when LongfellowCreek had become a meth lab dumping ground by drug dealers who caused numerous fires to decade old trees that housed many species of owls and many other avian varieties not to mention the poisoning the meth labs caused to our creek, salmon, beaver, coyote and the many other mammals who inhabit the Creek and adjoining green space !! West Seattle Blog you have become biased solely because you employ  one of these so called volunteer experts. Please stop, you do not speak for the majority of the over 80,000 residents who reside here!

    • WSB November 1, 2023 (12:43 am)

      Hi, you’re welcome to argue the newsworthiness of this situation but one correction. We don’t “employ” anyone but the two of us who own and run the site, myself (Tracy Record) and my husband (Patrick Sand). And if your last line is addressed to us, no, of course, we don’t “speak” for anyone – we in fact unlike many news publications don’t do endorsements, editorials, columns, op-eds, reviews, or other forms of opinion-offering; we report – TR

    • T Rex November 1, 2023 (7:02 am)

      Hey, WS BLOG keeps us INFORMED.  Many if not most WS residents use this blog so we  know what is happening in our neighborhood.  It is useful and at times, such as this topic entertaining. Be nice. Please. 

    • evanpetersnottheactor November 1, 2023 (8:13 am)

      You are so incorrect about everything you just said. Everyone in West Seattle checks the WSB to learn about what is going on in this neighborhood and always find very informative, unbiased results. Sad that you have allowed this very mild public discourse about a park to impact you so deeply. Perhaps you need to learn to regulate your viewership, rather than trying to dictate what the other residents of West Seattle want to read. Thank you for all you do T&P!

    • WSB daily reader November 1, 2023 (9:04 am)

      Standing up for the WSB here- in my long experience reading it they provide one of the only unbiased news sources really anywhere, and especially for WS/Seattle news. Not to mention their being on top of issues straightaway.

      To your Longfellow Creek claim- I remember reading about it here, and vigorous comments. Using the search bar on the Blog home page, articles come up straightaway, click below to see for yourself.

      https://westseattleblog.com/?s=Longfellow+creek+fire

    • HS November 1, 2023 (9:16 am)

      I also respectfully disagree with your comment. I am a daily reader and for years have relied on the unbiased reporting of news, events, etc for our large and diverse neighborhood provided by the WSB.

    • miws November 1, 2023 (9:34 am)

      Hey, Old West! Looks like you’ve been fact-checked! —Mike

    • SE Dick November 1, 2023 (10:33 am)

      ‘Old West’, you read like you might be th’ Wiz behind a dozen prior comment names. You may as well have said ‘Please stop! The truth and facts and reasoned people presenting them threaten and confuse and frighten me and make me angry!’ I now have no choice but to attach, in response, a tiny excerpt of yet another post of mine, late last night, so unhinged by rage at the damage done by the unending ruinous cacophony of ppl like you that it joined the overflowing ashbin of ‘too-bloody SE tirades’. This was a brief, calm aside to WSB–and if there are just two of them…? They are 1)a miracle, or 2)miracle workers:   “You are really the Press. I revere you. You are doing a tireless, thankless, unending devotedly unbiased shockingly comprehensive sacred job essential to any democracy. You have weathered a flood of Biblical proportions cascading from just me… You owe me and nobody nothing. I bow to you… Every god bless you. And Rusty. From when the good fight was new.   You made this possible. You gave it voices. You didn’t sign up for it exactly? I can’t imagine? And you will pay for it. Because. It was the right thing to do. Thank you all.”      (‘All’ I thot. Dozens! to do the work that they do.)  I’m 80,00and1, Old West, I don’t even live there–but boy,  I know you. I care about things beyond my self tho. And in providing a forum for us all–even me–to speak, god only knows how, WSB speaks for me, for us all, and for this besieged, struggling democracy. (You oughta narrow your target range, Old West, if you can’t just put it away. You oughta be so grateful, you g**d** SO*.)

  • Jen November 1, 2023 (5:59 am)

    I’m relieved to hear this development, and thank you, WSB for your continued reporting.Thanks, Lisa Herbold. I appreciate you using any influence here as we need to understand the process and impacts. The birds and wildlife that make the PNW so amazing need us to be thoughtful. I look forward to hearing more. 

  • Rob November 1, 2023 (6:53 am)

    As a side note I was at Lincoln Park the other day close to where the new courts will be built. Came up to a large tree with at least 200 crows just going off. You could barley hear yourself think 🤔 now that was some noise 

  • Jen November 1, 2023 (7:36 am)

    Thanks to Parks for the reprieve, to Lisa Herbold for using her influence to get answers, and to WSB for continued reporting. We don’t need pickleball in Lincoln Park. There are other options. Birds and wildlife need our thoughtful consideration. It’s worth it to go out of our way to protect them.

    • Foop November 1, 2023 (9:51 am)

      I hope you give up your car, it’s worth it to make way for birds and wildlife.

    • Jeff November 1, 2023 (10:14 am)

      Did you care about the birds in Lincoln park when blue angels fly over head or Seahawks game helicopters?

  • Bob November 1, 2023 (8:51 am)

    Who gives a damn, and why? Play pickleball on the damn ferry on ramp, make some lines, and go at it. It’s only used for ferry traffic about twice a day anyways. And it needent cost $15,000 to paint some lines or stick some tape down for Christ sakes, get a life people!!!

    • HS November 1, 2023 (9:22 am)

      That’s actually a great idea – ferry ramp pickelball – best views in the city.

    • Jackson K November 1, 2023 (5:08 pm)

      @bob – you’ve got some spice. Perfect for our pickleball team. Please consider joining us when the Lincoln Park courts open. 

  • Admiral-2009 November 1, 2023 (9:34 am)

    Frankly I would rather that the Parks Department staff work on fixing and getting playgrounds installed instead of expending resources on this issue of simply repurposing the prior tennis courts to PB!

  • Bus November 1, 2023 (9:35 am)

    I wish people cared this much about birds when they’re clamoring for required parking and other car infrastructure.  We’ve lost more trees to parking lots than every pickleball court put together.  Cars create a lot more noise and pollution than humans playing sports.  It’s great to love birds, but you should be fighting for them ALL the time, not just when it’s convenient.

    • Jim November 1, 2023 (1:39 pm)

      It’s almost like greed between developers and the city/county have allowed over building in an area that’s far too small for this kind of population

    • Rhonda November 1, 2023 (2:00 pm)

      Actually, the Seattle Parks Department and city arborists are the biggest reason for the loss of tree canopy in Seattle. They’ve cut down more trees than any other entity. 

  • Actually Mike November 1, 2023 (10:18 am)

    Well this is a step in the right direction, if only a small one. Of course, all The Usual Snarky Suspects are exploding with all their usual loud but weak BS–we know by now to expect that. But we have our barn-mucking boots on and will continue the fight. Lincoln Park is is too important as an urban refuge for so many of us to let a few troglodytes ruin it. Thanks to all the great folks who are speaking up and taking a stand against pickleball in Lincoln Park.

    • SE Dick November 1, 2023 (9:10 pm)

      Vote for Actually Mike.

  • Admiral Mom November 1, 2023 (10:50 am)

    NO CHANGE TO PARK all over again. My son is now 14 and thanks to the squeaky wheel, he never played at the proposed playscape for California Place Park. Good news is he survived and is thriving. Bad news is a small group of naysayers can derail anything, city officials feel pressured and give in. And people with initiatives to improve spaces get exhausted and walk away. This is Seattle.

    • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (9:29 pm)

      They fought to save grass in that case. Literally the slogan was “one blade of grass overturned is too much,” in other words, a patch of grass is more important than kids having a safe neighborhood play space. It’s infuriating. 

  • Francis Parkman November 1, 2023 (11:54 am)

    Want to protect Lincoln Park? Ban screaming kids, barking dogs running loose, and self-entitled park neighbors whining about pickleball! Do it for the birds! Petition · Implement Noise Control Measures in West Seattle’s Lincoln Park · Change.org

  • WestWood November 1, 2023 (12:40 pm)

    Build the PB courts at WestWood Village parking lot…you can play all nite and reduce crime and add more food traffic to the businesses.

    • John November 1, 2023 (1:36 pm)

      That’s actually a great idea! Then maybe they could do one indoors. I know there’s certain private clubs for different things like gyms where you can have 24/7 access with a key card. Maybe they could have membership so people could play indoors anytime

      • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (10:03 pm)

        Yes, instead of providing this free on an existing court in a public park, let’s instead privatize it and run it indoors, running HVAC and lights. SO much better!

    • Teti November 3, 2023 (7:28 pm)

      Pickleball courts in that back corner of Westwood village is a great use of space!!! 

  • Jim November 1, 2023 (1:35 pm)

    I have to suggest somewhat of a correction here. It’s not a “work site” They haven’t staged any equipment or materials and when they set it up the Police who showed up in excess said they were setting up a “protest exclusion zone”

    • Diversityinpark November 2, 2023 (10:12 am)

      Jim,
      The police report contradicts your claim, as do witnesses and the ‘occupiers’ themselves.

      The fence is by definition a posted work site fence as required by Seattle.   No materials or equipment are required.
      The threats and interference by a few activists prompted the  chain link and the posting of work site signs to allow police to trespass violators.

      Yesterday I noticed several of the Seattle Parks Work signs have been ripped from their cable ties and thrown over the fence into the work site.  

      Is this a proper way for activists to  enjoy their right to peaceful protest?

      • Patty November 3, 2023 (10:36 am)

        I don’t think people who are against the project would take down the signs because we want people to know what the Parks Dept is planning to do so they have a chance to voice their opinion.

        • Diversityinpark November 4, 2023 (10:21 am)

          Patty,
          You are either mistaken or misleading.  

          The signs being torn down are the signs that simply say, “WORK AREA,”
          nothing else.  
          They are attached to the fence as no trespass postings and do not indicate anything more than a fenced off work area.  
          Someone has taped Kersti Muul flyers over these signs which I, (naively?)  assume were done by piclkleball opposition activists.
          Are you insinuating that people ‘for the project’ are attempting to sabotage and slow the resurrection of the courts?  

          If so why?

  • Quiz November 1, 2023 (1:41 pm)

    Crybabies get their way. Sad but true.

  • Keenan November 1, 2023 (2:00 pm)

    This whole ordeal proved once again how insufferably annoying people in this community are.  Both sides have been HORRIBLE.

    On one side we have bootlickers who think the parks department should be able to be a fascist dictatorship with no accountability to the public, and who mock the very idea of community input to city projects.  News flash – we live in a democracy and every government institution is accountable to the people. We ALL ought have a say in what gets built and what doesn’t in our community parks, especially when it involves permanent changes to traffic and noise levels in a natural area.

    On the other side we have NIMBYs who claim they’re trying to protect birds or whatever which is complete bull.  You should stand up and be proud to just simply say you find pickleball loud and annoying and you don’t want it in Lincoln park because you just plain don’t like it..  There is no need to green-wash your opinion or cloak it in some faux-environmentalism.

    It’s a shame that the parks department tried to slip one past the people of Seattle and we had to raise a stink about it.  But as obnoxious as the process has been, we’ve finally made the city pause and listen to the people.  It might turn out that a vast majority of people do want the new courts and that’s fine, but this whole thing should be decided DEMOCRATICALLY and not by a single LA transplant newly appointed city bureaucrat’s whims.

    • Scarlett November 1, 2023 (3:19 pm)

      Can’t disagree, in principle.  The only problem is figuring out how to determine the will of the majority, short of the ballot box.  Maybe it’ll come down to the squeaky wheel principle.  So be it, then. 

    • Jort November 1, 2023 (6:40 pm)

      “A fascist dictatorship.”  Really? Seattle Parks? A “fascist dictatorship?”  WOW. I’ve heard Parks called a lot of things … but a fascist dictatorship? That’s a new one! They must be saving all the energy they don’t expend on improving parks and using it to build up all those fascisms, instead! Just an fyi for future posts: just because a government agency does something you don’t like doesn’t mean they’re a World War II Axis power. Do words mean anything anymore? Actual words? Not the pretend words we like to write to get a little thrilly-thrill while typing a internet comment?

      • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (7:28 pm)

        Can you imagine trying to do your job efficiently and being called fascist because you’re not checking with your customer at every step of the way? LOL no thank you. This is why we have agencies empowered to translate legislation into action. If everything were a consultative process we’d be living in a decrepit community pretty quickly. 

  • Jen November 1, 2023 (2:29 pm)

    I would rather have the concrete removed, and more habitat restored.  Courts can go anywhere.  My vote is that the city should bolster and enhance the natural habitat here, and purchase MORE ACREAGE for new parks in Seattle, as planners know they need to since the MHA Upzone.  OPCD, We are not fooled.  Adding “activations” in parks is not adding more Park space, its fast tracking the conflicts and over-burdening of the existing parks.  We are adding population density, we need to increase park acreage.  Also, closing off a street for a day so kids can play in the road is NOT A PARK.  Street trees are not an ecosystem.  We already know that all of Seattle has been upzoned and there will no longer be trees or yards, so where is the tree canopy going to go??  This is about smart urban planning, and we need to do this right.

    • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (4:15 pm)

      Ok, where should they go? Which public park in West Seattle would be an appropriate location for them? Because this absolutely should be a public good available through our park system, especially given its continued popularity and high level of accessibility. There are currently no pickleball courts, dual-use or otherwise, south of Whale Tail Park and west of 35th. None. So please advise which *existing park* (not a hypothetical) would be an appropriate location for the courts? FWIW I am not a “pickleballer,” am a birder, and just find the blatant NIMBYism exhausting. 

      • Highland Park neighbor November 1, 2023 (6:54 pm)

        Why not in the middle of Westcrest’s loop over the now covered reservoir? It’s flat,  wide open and not surrounded by old growth trees. 

        • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (7:37 pm)

          Not west of 35th. People are acting like we’re just spoiled with options, but honestly there are none in this whole area of WS. 

      • mygoodness November 1, 2023 (9:45 pm)

        JustSarah, I’m curious. Why are you advocating for pickleball if you don’t play? I do and there are plenty of courts. Very easy to get to HighPoint from west of 35th.  Not one single actual pickleball player I know in West Seattle supports adding pickleball courts to Lincoln Park. Not ONE. It is well known that most pickleball players in West Seattle do not want courts in Lincoln Park. Ask them. Why do you, JustSarah, who doesn’t play pickleball at all, take it upon yourself to crusade for 6 courts in the middle of a top birding area, rip down posters advocating for alternatives, personally trash well-respected West Seattleites who disagree with you, and post 90% of comments advocating for courts in Lincoln Park in online forums.  Clue me in.Even the top birding org in Seattle,  Birds Connect (FKA Seattle Audubon),  doesn’t support courts in Lincoln Park. https://birdsconnectsea.org/our-work/conservation/urban-conservation/conservation-advocacy/

        • JustSarah November 1, 2023 (10:42 pm)

          I don’t know how to respond to the “90% of comments” piece, so will ignore. Here are my thoughts in a nutshell, as a neighbor who is almost exclusively a passive recreator in the park (daily 1-hour meandering loops through the north end of the park, down the bluff trail, passing the play areas, then cutting east into the trails a bit past that, covering almost 4 miles door to door). I think pickleball is appropriate for that part of the park, there is almost no net difference between current and improved space, and it provides another activity to introduce people to a lifelong love of and appreciation for public parks. I also understand tennis players feel pushed out, so shared striping at Solstice feels like another hit. I have also gathered that just a few years ago, Seattle Parks committed to citizens in the Lowman Beach renovation project to preserve Solstice as tennis-only, so it sounds like a “left hand not talking to the right hand” issue. SPR opted to honor their commitment to tennis players to preserve Solstice as well as their commitment to pickleball players to provide more court options in West Seattle (and Seattle overall BTW… Strangely we’re the only neighborhood to have made this *a thing* so now we’re being ridiculed. Oh, and the fact that the science just doesn’t support the actual impact these courts would have above the existing ambient noise level. No clear claims have been made that outweigh the benefit of these courts to the community. 

        • Huh November 2, 2023 (1:54 pm)

          @mygoodness Wait a second: if not a single local pickleball player hopes for courts in Lincoln Park and as such any court updates will leave us with an unused space and if they are not going to fell any trees and simply refurbish an existing pavement pad then what you would end up with a nicer looking paved area and no parks trucks coming and going and no sand and gravel storage then that means people who are pro quiet space in the park for birds and humans would accidentally get exactly what they want by doing the planned rehab of the pavement and new paint?Also why would a bird advocacy group support installation of any sporting concepts anywhere?  Not supporting something that has nothing to do with you does not have any real meaning.  Its like saying that because the Department of Defense does not support people eating ham and cheese sandwiches and thinking that that means the Department of Defense cares at all about ham and cheese sandwiches.

    • Patty November 1, 2023 (7:16 pm)

      Excellent idea, Jen! Yes, we need this forest in our park more than ever! Break up the concrete, restore the natural habitat and preserve this amazing stretch of park. Pickleball can be easily incorporated into existing, lightly courts at Solstice Park.

    • Diversityinpark November 2, 2023 (8:56 am)

      Jen,
      Just where is this new acreage?  
      All of West Seattle is currently developed for homes like yours and mine.
      Whose neighborhood would you choose to evict the home owners, demolish the homes, remove the concrete and restore the habitat?  

      Ironically, the carbon footprint of “restoring” the existing tennis courts to ‘nature’ would be huge; requires extremely loud, heavy demolition equipment, would require permits and  likely kick in SEPA review that is not needed for pickleball use.
      This site is less than one acre in Lincoln Park’s 135 and minuscule compared to, “The West Duwamish Greenbelt is the largest contiguous forest in Seattle, spreading over 550 acres in West Seattle from the tip of Pigeon Point to Westcrest Park.”

      We have 6,480 aces of parks in Seattle and are doing a grievously poor job of maintaining our public owned trees, with a multimillion dollar, and growing, backlog.  
      The recent assessments show Seattle owned green spaces and parks have lost far more canopy due to  Seattle City’s neglect than that lost to development.  
      Studies have identified the greatest loss of canopy, i.e. our public lands, yet we are ignoring it.  
      The data is our public lands are in heavy decline. 

      Talking about “forest for the tree,”
      removing this old tennis court would be less than a drop in the bucket, and would divert funds from the maintenance backlog. 

  • Hutch November 1, 2023 (3:19 pm)

    I was actually a little sympathetic to the anti-pickleball cause originally because of the nighttime lighting — would have felt really out of place deep inside a wooded park like this. But now that that’s dropped their entire argument seems to come down to “the sound of pickleball will disturb birds”, which is really silly considering this spot is located next to a baseball/soccer field and playground that is full of screaming children (not to mention car noise from Fauntleroy). It’s already an active use park, not a nature preserve.

    • SE Dick November 1, 2023 (9:47 pm)

      Hey, man, if you were only a little sympathetic that’s too bad, I won’t subject you to repeating why, but if you been had by this retreat and makeover of the marketing materials I gotta reach down into that stinkin’ hole and try to pull you back. Just: the p**b** mob wins. Courts say 6 is 9. Parks goes in with backhoes, rips that concrete up. They pour a new pad on what’s left of giant roots. The hordes have won. A guy who likes to rub it in here–Jackson K, he’s already smugly smilingly promising the tourneys he’ll host–singles and dbls, men’s and women’s, mixed, round robin etc. *Gosh* JK must be popular! One of the frequent flyer snipes on here, I don’t remember, Alki, JustSarah, but already promising group road trips from Puyallup I think, a surge in the local economy…  So this goes on for a season, two… if it wasn’t existing before, it sure as hell will have been then, so, sure as shi* no damn SEPA review, and man we gotta play these damn courts at nite!! Demand! And it’s popular! Popular ppl, Yahoos can’t get enough! Ipso facto! Beanie Babies! Barney! –SPR will not pursue lighting at this time. Do you actually rilly believe what you said? You don’t recognize the operative words in that sentence? From it you get “Now that that’s dropped”? Are you joking me softly? Is this really an insidious pamphleting campaign? Come back from the dark side, brother. We keep our enemies close. (*I* think yer Divert again.)

      • Cam November 2, 2023 (11:00 am)

        Get help, please

  • nojoking November 1, 2023 (4:28 pm)

    175 comments and counting. Thanks, Seattle Parks for creating angst and ire among neighbors by not doing your job correctly. You are supposed to survey and gain the support/trust of communities before you decide what to do with Lincoln Park. This is your fault. Fix it. Stop construction and listen to the community before proceeding. This is a democracy, not the AP Diaz Dictatorship.  This quote from Diaz, our Sup of Parks, didn’t hold up too well, did it?: “Like many high profile or impactful projects, strong advocacy is often a key component to ensuring a site’s success…  we need to ensure we have deep community support, buy-in”. 

  • MD November 1, 2023 (4:40 pm)

    Are there any sport-equipment experts who’d like to make $$$ developing Quieter Pickleballs and Quieter Pickleball paddles?? Would be a big *hit* with Everyone! Million dollar opportunity!

  • MD November 1, 2023 (5:09 pm)

    https://thehustle.co/one-mans-quest-to-make-pickleball-quiet/

  • FFS November 1, 2023 (7:40 pm)

    Guess we’re trotting this out again.https://www.theonion.com/ten-years-of-life-dedicated-to-getting-municipal-pool-n-1819567756

  • Ms_F November 1, 2023 (8:00 pm)

    All the big stores keep closing in Westwood Village shopping center.  Why not build indoor pickleball courts there?  (I mean even the Kraken have a sports complex in a former shopping center.)  It rains 1/2 the year here anyway.  That way those suffering from their dearth of pickleball can join a club and play year-round to their heart’s content.

    • AF12 November 2, 2023 (10:09 am)

      I agree with MS F!  This could revitalize the entire Westwood Village.  PB enthusiasts are willing to travel far for indoor PB facilities.  This location could become a destination for PB players that also spend money shopping at stores at the village.

    • Teti November 3, 2023 (7:49 pm)

      Great idea!!! Build indoor courts in the empty buildings at Westwood AND build some outdoor courts In the NW oration if the parking lot….. which no one parks at!!!

  • Joon November 1, 2023 (9:59 pm)

    Has anyone bothered to ask the tennis players? I truly feel this squeezing out the old for the next big Flavor Fad

    • Jeff November 2, 2023 (10:19 am)

      They can still play on pickleball courts. So why?

  • Rob November 2, 2023 (6:42 am)

    While we’re at it let’s ban the high school  cross country  meets 

  • Scarlett November 2, 2023 (10:59 am)

    The right to petition the public is a sacred right (“Preserve Lincoln Park”), but don’t misuse science to achieve your obective.  When this happens, we all lose.  Science loses. Society loses.  Civilization loses.  For example:

    “We believe it is crucial to protect the delicate balance of Lincoln Park’s ecosystem….”This is pure drivel that has crept into environmentalism.  Thee is no such thing as a “balanced ecosystem.”  Any ecosystem, even  left alone, is continually evolving and in a state of flux as is Lincoln Park and  demonstrated by the incorporation of new, non-native species such as the Barred Owl.  A person is in a state of balance (maximum entropy) when they are dead.  Don’t want that. 

    Please, please, you can be an environmentalist and pursue your agenda without falling into the sinkhole of feel-good, non-scientific silliness.     

  • Guitarguy November 4, 2023 (4:56 pm)

    The Parks dept is all excited about Pickleball, yet the kid’s play area down by the south parking lot sits abandoned, with no future in sight. Misplaced priorities, ya think?🤔

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