LINCOLN PARK PICKLEBALL? Councilmember Herbold asks Parks to host public meeting

(Sign installed at project site in Lincoln Park last Monday)

In her weekly newsletter, circulated tonight, our area’s City Councilmember Lisa Herbold comments publicly for the first time on the Lincoln Park pickleball-court project. She notes receiving an “overwhelming” amount of emails from project opponents, and says she sent Parks and Recreation Superintendent AP Diaz a letter today, with questions as well as a request for a public meeting. Here’s the full text of her letter:

Dear Superintendent Diaz,

I am writing today about the installation of the pickleball court at Lincoln Court.  I have shared with hundreds of constituents the Seattle Parks and Recreation position that impacts to wildlife will not increase and may be reduced as relates to emissions.  I have told my constituents, as you have:

The…”site has been used as a storage facility for the maintenance crews that service all West Seattle’s parks. Meaning that several times a day, vehicles and large trucks are pulling into this site to load and unload equipment and materials. When this site becomes a pickleball court, SPR will consolidate our maintenance facilities into one location in a different part of Lincoln Park. In our view, any disturbance to wildlife the pickleball court will bring will be equivalent, and potentially lessened as we are removing vehicle emissions from this location.”

Similarly, the Associated Recreational Council (ARC) wrote: 

“Lincoln Park was considered as a potential location for dedicated courts through work with a consultant and community engagement in SPR’s 2020-2021 Outdoor Pickleball Plan. The plan offsets an additional active use to Lincoln Park by relocating the SPR grounds storage facility to the crew headquarter location. This will remove trucks, along with their emissions and traffic, driving in and out of this actively used part of the park.”

The public response I have received has been overwhelming.  I have received about 1,300 emails strenuously objecting to this characterization of this installation as not having wildlife impacts.   

I have also received several requests for “an official SPR plan or study.” Seattle Parks and Recreation, similarly to the ARC, has referred to this document, saying:  “Through work with a consultant and community engagement, Lincoln Park was considered as a potential location for dedicated courts in SPR’s 2020-2021 Outdoor Pickleball Plan.”   Yet, my quick perusal of the documents linked within the above link suggests that Lincoln Park as a location was first discussed at the May 25, 2022 open house. It appears that this was a citywide meeting.  Lincoln Park appears to have been identified in a “break out session.  I would like to know how many people were in attendance in the Southwest breakout session. Is there a specific “Lincoln Plan” that informed the discussion in the breakout session?  Or was Lincoln Park identified in more of a “spit-balling”  exercise?  No one denies that Lincoln Park was put on a list, but no one seems to understand how it got on the list.

I understand the analysis and position that no SEPA analysis is needed.  But meeting with community members who are pleading to be heard is the least we can do.  I have joined Bird Connect on birding tours in Lincoln Park.  I appreciate how vulnerable wildlife is there.  Birds Connect Seattle reports that:

“More than 160 species of birds have been reported at Lincoln Park. That’s approximately 64% of all bird species that occur in Seattle from a park that represents just 0.25% of our land area.”

A constituent also reports that “ sustained, repetitive noise will disrupt this well-established ecosystem function by marginalizing wildlife and pushing them further out to areas that don’t have as much available prey, as well as pushing prey species out.”  Why is it that we do not believe that this will occur?

I have also read the concern the plan in in contravention to the Public Involvement Policy for Parks Planning Processes and for Proposals to Acquire Property, Initiate Funded Capital Projects, or Make Changes to a Park or Facility.  Can you comment whether you believe that to be the case?  Some may remember that this policy was updated in 2022 on the request of former City Councilmember Nick Licata in response to a public outcry related to another Praks project, the Queen Anne Bowl.

Please consider hosting a meeting to hear the concerns.  If you do, I will join you.   I look forward to your response, as well as answers to these questions:

-How many people were in attendance in the Southwest breakout session?
-Is there a specific “Lincoln Plan” that informed the discussion in the breakout session?
-Why is it that we do not believe that sustained, repetitive work will not impact wildlife (are there studies)?
-Is DPR proceeding in a way that is consistent with the Parks Involvement Policy linked above?
-Will DPD meet with the public to discuss the plan?

Thank you for your kind consideration of my request and questions.  Thank you as well for all you do to support our precious parks system and all of us who use them.


Lisa Herbold
District 1 Councilmember, Public Safety and Human Services Committee Chair

We’ll be checking next week to see how Parks responds.

198 Replies to "LINCOLN PARK PICKLEBALL? Councilmember Herbold asks Parks to host public meeting"

  • Mike October 27, 2023 (8:04 pm)

    Jeeeeezus. I blame this blog for blowing this situation way out of proportion. This would have never been an issue 15 years or so ago…. parks would have done it, and people would have just enjoyed it. But here we are with it being publicized out of control….

    • Spot on October 27, 2023 (8:53 pm)

      100% agree. The level annoyance is unreal. 

    • miws October 27, 2023 (9:09 pm)

      Mike, why do you blame “this blog” for simply doing what a reliable news source does—reporting the news? This just happens to be an issue with very passionately opinionated people on both sides, just as the Lincoln Park Zipline was fifteen or so years ago, which WSB also covered thoroughly. —Mike

      • Mike October 27, 2023 (9:27 pm)

        Yo, this isn’t news. Tired of hearing about it.

        • miws October 28, 2023 (8:07 am)

          To borrow from Woody Guthrie (and take a few liberties) ♬ Scroll on complainer, scroll on…♬

    • Jethro Marx October 27, 2023 (9:20 pm)

      Are you joking me softly?  If you’re looking to be outraged for dubious reasons, I’d recommend getting all worked up about the bizarre and illogical reasoning behind Councilmember Herbold’s demands to know how many people commented at one of those “breakout” sessions years ago, with a side of minor outrage at the tragic editing of her public correspondence.
      If you’re thinking the blog should have avoided reporting this local news so we could keep it quiet you have outrageously misunderstood the point of the blog, and journalism in general.

    • Kevin dawson October 27, 2023 (9:35 pm)

      Just a comment from an out-of-towner who ventures to grand junction from time to time to spend money shopping and play a little pickleball  with our friends: I don’t think the wildlife find pickleball to be much of a bother. Our courts in Delta are overseen majestically by several osprey who nest on the light poles bordering the courts.  We love pausing our games to watch the birds taking food to the nests.

      • Kt October 28, 2023 (6:02 am)

        Google pickle ball noise lawsuits.   You will see that cities across the country are being sued due to the nonstop noise.  I feel bad for the people who live adjacent to the park

        • Mike October 28, 2023 (9:11 am)

          Yes, NIMBY’s exist in many cities. 

        • Maggie October 28, 2023 (9:57 am)

          This is the main issue here. The City knows about these lawsuits, they also know that PB noise is equal to the frequency of a the shrill alarm of a garbage truck backing up and that PB noise is as loud as freeway traffic, but they simply do not care. Diaz and his crew are determined to force a court somewhere just so they can check a project off a list. Most of the concern is for homeowners, but for those of us without single-family homes, who have no yards, the park is a place of peace and relaxation. I hope neighbors sue the city because it’s the only language they understand. 

          • Duwamesque October 28, 2023 (11:38 am)

            Did you know pickleball is the same decibel level as a 19th century cannon or a full sized high school marching band or standing inches from an F-16 engine on afterburn or having air horns sounded directly into your ears?

      • Mark47n October 28, 2023 (1:00 pm)

        I miss that region. I grew up in Denver, went college in Durango and liked climbing in Colorado National Monument. I especially miss it when issues like this surface.

    • TM October 28, 2023 (12:12 am)

      Glad to see this development. This bad idea needs to be aired out. Need to hear folks explain how and why the decision was rushed through? Because it’s become clear over the last couple if weeks that there are a good number of constituents who have strong concerns. Happy to see it in the blog. For folks “tired of hearing it”, man if I see an article I don’t care to read I just scroll by. 

    • CarDriver October 28, 2023 (6:26 am)

      Mike. If WSB hadn’t reported the whole story here GUARENTEE you’d be the 1st complaining that WSB wasn’t covering this story. Oh, gotta ask: who’s forcing you to read this coverage on WSB???

    • Actually Mike October 28, 2023 (11:02 am)

      Oh, sure–don’t like the news? Blame the news media! How original. No, wait–where have I heard that same nonsense before? Hmmm… Meh, get over it, pal–’cause this isn’t over yet.

  • Mike October 27, 2023 (8:06 pm)

    Also, WAY bigger issues for this “edgy” lady to worry about right now than this.

  • Morgan October 27, 2023 (8:09 pm)

    Wish Councilmember took public safety issues as seriously….

    • Concerned West Seattlite October 27, 2023 (8:40 pm)

      Well said Morgan! Public Safety must be addressed ASAP. 

      • WestSeattleBadTakes October 27, 2023 (9:11 pm)

        Where are the protestors?

        • Marine Jim October 27, 2023 (10:16 pm)

          Protesters will be in the north lot of Lincoln park on Sunday at 11. Join us!

          • WestSeattleBadTakes October 28, 2023 (7:12 am)

            Protesting for public safety?

          • Diversityinpark October 28, 2023 (7:29 am)

            I I do expect substantial turnout on Sunday, 10% of the petition signers would be 400 plus.  
            The last one was a paltry few dozen including media and curious bystanders.  
            I do hope they are notifying the SPD ahead of time, have any needed permits and do not plan on more illegal occupations and men with threatening dogs.  
            I do hope they will act responsibly and not litter the park with their fact-free  propaganda.  
            I hope there is some diversity from the usual naturally greying, WASP empty nesters with time and performative outrage.  
            I do hope our new Audubon “lobbyist”, will show up to address the “concerns” of long time park users about Lincoln Park becoming a  wildlife sanctuary with no sports, no laughter of children and none of  the loud, destructive group activities that they claim have decimated park wildlife.  
            If she does attend,  Herbold needs to address the major damage being caused by dogs in Lincoln Park.  
            She needs to answer questions about her recent tour with bird activists and sudden support of the Audubon Society and disclose what she paid for her membership, if anything, and any discussions about becoming a lobbyist or being a paid spokesperson.  
            I look forward to filing  Freedom of Information requests from Herbold for communications with the anonymous activist group that is behind all of this.  
            Herbold needs to show up with some actual scientific data not squishy innuendos by self anointed “naturalists.”

          • JustSarah October 29, 2023 (2:39 pm)

            I counted maybe 24 protesters at 11:30 today. 

          • Diversityinpark October 29, 2023 (4:03 pm)

            One picture is worth….

          • CB October 30, 2023 (8:17 am)

            In response to those who question our numbers of protesters: ‘Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed individuals can change the world. In fact, it’s the only thing that ever has.’ Margaret Mead, anthropologist

  • Ferns October 27, 2023 (8:18 pm)

    I just heard my first public pickle ball courts – the sound is irritating. Much more so than tennis. Maybe on par with basketball but more intense in pitch. It has a more violent sound somehow. I can see why animals may avoid them. Why not tennis/pickle ball combo?? Or some of each? 

    • wscommuter October 27, 2023 (9:16 pm)

      As has been reported by WSB – “Why not tennis/pickle ball combo” is because all the other tennis courts in West Seattle (Alki, Hiawatha, Hundley, Sealth) already have to share with pickle ball or have been completely converted to pickle ball – Parks has agreed to leave one set of courts – Solstice – alone just for tennis.  Solstice Park is not a solution for the people opposing Lincoln Park.  Please find your solution somewhere else. 

      • Marine Jim October 27, 2023 (10:17 pm)

        Pickleball courts will be disastrous for people living near those courts. The noise!!!

        • Darren October 27, 2023 (11:02 pm)

          That’s what it is about, the neighbors don’t want it, yet they moved there knowing there was a large urban park and ferry terminal everything else is a smoke screen, urban park in a high density city which will only continue Head for the back country if you want that level of “quiet”

          • Kt October 28, 2023 (6:03 am)

            Google pickle ball noise lawsuits and see how much other cities are having to shell out to defend these noisy courts.

          • Duwamesque October 28, 2023 (11:41 am)

            Google “entitled NIMBYs” to see how many people are affected by squeaky wheels demanding grease.

          • Kt October 28, 2023 (6:08 am)

            Lisa received 1,300 emails.  That is way more people that the people who comment here on the blog.  And enough people to warrant a public hearing.

          • Reed October 28, 2023 (7:54 am)

            And West Seattle’s population is around 100k. 1,300 people complaining about this means a vast majority don’t care about this.

        • Diveresityinpark October 28, 2023 (8:05 am)

          Pure fantasy that pickleball will be heard outside the park.  
          I actually measured pickleball at Walt Hundley Field.  
          I also measured sound levels at multiple points at Hundley playfields and children’s play area.  
          I then went to Lincoln Park and took more sound levels in the contested court area.  
          This was in the late afternoon two days ago.  
          The park was sparse with people and would seem “quiet,” but it wasn’t.  
          I utilized an Extech  lab grade dedicated decibel level meter from U of W. (Accuracy +-1 1/2 dB)  
          Please view the results.  
          Notably and surprising are the sound levels at the deserted old courts, already loud enough to drown out pickleball within a few hundred feet.  
          I used ‘max hold’ on the device for capturing loudest sounds over a minute.  
          I resampled whenever a dog bark spiked the loudness so these results were a good faith sampling.  
          I invite anyone to duplicate this first actual testing of the sound levels so publicized,  as this shows that in our Lincoln Park location, pickleball sounds will be  below the din of the park.

          • Smiley October 28, 2023 (11:06 am)

            The amount of work that went into this no nonsense comment is absolutely incredible. I love it. 

          • SE Dick October 28, 2023 (12:19 pm)

            “No nonsense”–yer smilin’, as you post that, Smiley… right? as Diversiontopark opens, yet again, first sentence, with nonsense, and proceeds as per long precedent with horsesh**. (They *are* awful eager to spend tons of time and I don’t know–dollars? to keep this low-impact inoffensive non-event far from their courts at Solstice, tho.)

          • Duwamesque October 28, 2023 (11:44 am)

            Whoa whoa whoa. Slow down there with your empirical measurements and facts. Did you not know that the ambient noise of a pickleball court is louder than an International airport and the Superbowl combined?

          • Elizagrace October 28, 2023 (12:16 pm)

            This is interesting to see-appreciate the effort to share!

          • Darren October 28, 2023 (2:04 pm)

            Huh?Where and what is the data to support such a rather silly claim 

          • Erik October 28, 2023 (3:17 pm)

            Thank you for doing this. Particularly since everyone who is so against the noise either can’t come up with any empirical data to support their assumptions, or directs others to go to other sites that similarly don’t back up their opinions with actual data.

          • tim October 28, 2023 (4:44 pm)

            This is my favorite thing I have seen on the blog in a while, and I have been mentioned in several articles latley.

          • Jay October 29, 2023 (1:03 pm)

            Why are you switching between hi and lo and using the max hold setting? I’d want to see the average, not the peak. The issue is the constant popping sound, not an occasional spike of noise.

        • Peter October 29, 2023 (4:10 pm)

          There are no houses within range of the proposed court. 

  • Jissy October 27, 2023 (8:32 pm)

    Bring on the popcorn!!Incredible, her constituents have begged her to get involved in many public health and safety concerns/fights and this is the one she chooses?  Good riddance.  

    • Alki resident October 27, 2023 (9:07 pm)

      Exactly, this is beyond comical. Just sit back and watch the drama. 

  • AB October 27, 2023 (8:33 pm)

    Thank you, Lisa Herbold!

  • Sarge October 27, 2023 (8:44 pm)

    Seriously? This is so dumb. It has literally become a joke. People are laughing at West Seattle about this. 

    • Zipda October 27, 2023 (10:04 pm)

       It’s finally time we should absolutely resist all pickles at the park.

    • readupsarge October 28, 2023 (12:12 am)

      We to make good decisions despite what tomato throwers say, Sarge. Most people who mock the opposition have never been to Lincoln Park or played pickleball; they have no idea what a sanctuary Lincoln Park is for humans or wildlife – nor do they know how obnoxious pickleball noise is. They just say, “oh NIMBYs!” or “oh fun-haters!” or “Karens!” or whatever childish thing comes to their mind.  Regardless, the community needs to decide on what is needed here – the people who use the park, the people that play pickleball, etc. It’s not up to people in Ballard or Bellevue.  Also, Google ‘pickleball problems’ and you’ll see a whole host of communities across the US fighting the same fight. West Seattle is no alone.

    • Suzy Que October 28, 2023 (6:18 am)

      People around the city have been laughing at West Seattle and Lisa Herbold’s incompetence for years.  Lets turn it around and support Seattle Parks and Rec’s plan to improve Lincoln Park by adding much needed courts.

  • No to Lincoln Park Pickleball October 27, 2023 (9:05 pm)

    This is not a silly or minor issue, nor one to pooh pooh while blaming this Blog and Lisa Herbold with contempt as in the comments “edgy lady” and “bring on the popcorn”.   Wildlife is precious and vulnerable, as is this quiet forest.  While pickleball is fun and great exercise, we do NOT need pickleball in Lincoln Park. 

    • HS October 28, 2023 (8:26 am)


    • DC October 28, 2023 (9:55 am)

      I agree! Ban all noise in Lincoln park. New rules: 1. NO Kids allowed. They are too loud. Their grating laughter and shrieking squeals of joy must be stopped. And babies, get out of here! Tear out the playgrounds! 2. NO sports. Parents cheering, kids playing? NO way. Tear out the soccer and baseball fields! 3. NO parties or picnics! Tear out all the picnic tables and shelters. We need a true nature preserve only enjoyed by animals and QUITE locals. 

  • Diversityinpark October 27, 2023 (9:21 pm)

    This is a spectacular swan song for lame duck Herbold!What makes Lisa Herbold, so infamous for ignoring constituents also “pleading to be heard”, all of a sudden listen to an admittedly skillfully orchestrated, occasionally illegal acting,  small group of activists with an iPhone friendly misleading flyer formatted to  click links of politicians.   I will be including this comment along with my Official constituents’ “report” that “in the 65 years I have enjoyed living with Lincoln Park as my back yard, I report the major change in Lincoln Park is the increase in wildlife.  Today we are likely to see magnificent Bald Eagles that were a truly rare sight.  This is despite the park’s increased popularity for its legacy of recreation  and the intent of the Olmsted plans.  I value the diversity of new peoples that these activities have introduced to ‘our’ beloved park.  The pink fishing crowds!  I see very little diversity  of any sort in these activists (just look at the protest videos).  Let’s all remember that our parks were established for all, not solely for those with the most time and shrillest shrieks.Lisa Herbold by inserting herself, simplicity condoning the “occupation,” reported threatening of park empty;loyueees by to male activists with dogs.  She is also nodding approval to those who deface park property and litter the parks with flyers.   I am somewhat relieved to see Lisa Herbold conceded the ‘red herring’  of the SEPA drummers. But does she have any scientific data? Apparently not as she shares a pure anecdotal note of a  “constituent”  who “reports.”  ”   If  The Audubon Society now  Birds Connect newest member reports that 160 species, but this hundred year old organization cannot cite declines?Could  Lisa Herbold  take a bird tour in Lincoln Park without  witnessing and hearing the largest change of threat to park wildlife over the last 30 years, off leash dogs?  There is a “slippery slope” aspect to this as these same ‘concerns’ about noise and activities logically apply to group sports, playgrounds, school outings, etc.   Please cite some examples of bird species decimation caused by  the thousands of other pickleball courts over the last 40 years?  Has Bainbridge Island’s bird population been decimated since the invention there of this cacophonous sport.  What are the long well established affects on wildlife?I look forward to reaching out to Lisa Herbold after this Friday night ‘drop’.”A constituent also reports that “ sustained, repetitive noise will disrupt this well-established ecosystem function by marginalizing wildlife and pushing them further out to areas that don’t have as much available prey, as well as pushing prey species out.”  Why is it that we do not believe that this will occur?”   And that begs the opposite  query of,  why do they “believe this will occur? 

  • Appreciated October 27, 2023 (9:23 pm)

    Thank you, Lisa Herbold, for your thoughtful consideration.   Protection of Lincoln Park’s rare natural offerings is at stake.  Pickleball doesn’t belong.

  • Rhonda October 27, 2023 (9:25 pm)

    I hate this new pickleball court BS more than anyone but, as usual, Herbold is WAY too late on this. There’s nothing that can be done to stop the City’s decision to force Lincoln Park pickleball down our throats.

    • Alki resident October 27, 2023 (9:41 pm)

      Oh Rhonda, you’re such a victim in all of of this. 

      • Rhonda October 27, 2023 (10:38 pm)

        Actually, Alki resident, the entire community of Lincoln Park users are the victims. Most people have never played pickleball or realize how loud it is. My main use of our park is jogging on the waterfront trail. But I’m not lacking in compassion for those users of the north end upper park and the nearby residents like so many on here, including yourself.

        • Alki resident October 28, 2023 (5:03 am)

          The entire community are not victims, but you seem to seriously think everyone is a victim of this fun sport. You don’t speak for the majority who actually DO want this. 

          • Josh October 28, 2023 (7:31 am)

            Are you still in favor of the zip line?  I remember you being one of the few who spoke on here in favor of that. I personally think the anti pickle ball people are well intentioned and silly. They are probably the same people who think that putting an off leash dog area will harm the birds of Lincoln park even though it will more likely reduce the number of off leash dogs in the entire park. Sure pickle ball is loud. Sure it might disrupt the birds in the area for the 4 hours a day 3 months out of the year it will get used (all hours that there are already hordes of loud human noises there already) sure we care about birds sure make noise but this is not the zip lines. The courts are going in. The sooner the better I say, it will be nice not having trucks driving through the park all the time year round (I bet the birds agree!). 

          • TM October 28, 2023 (8:33 am)

             You don’t speak for the majority who actually DO want this.”

            Majority? Prove it. It’s becoming clear that this little idea has significant opposition.  And people are rightfully livid about how this potential project has been cooked up and fast-tracked, under the radar.

            I’m happy for it to get the scrutiny it deserves. If you are right, there’s nothing to be concerned about, you’d just lose a month or so of court time. Whereas if they go in park users will get many years of day to night (and then into the night, if lights are installed) of high-decibel, constant noise in the park.

            This community concern is not unique to West Seattle- all around the country including the Seattle area there are lawsuits ang community opposition to (really) noisy courts, and stories of pickleball groups working to influence Parks’ planning and lock in budgets for pickleball alone. You know this, but now the cat’s coming out of the bag.

            It will be good for people to have a chance to understand more about the impacts before agreeing that this is a worthy idea. At this point we all know courts in Lincoln  sounds great to you, Alki Resident, but let’s give more of the population a chance to understand this plan, the significant impacts, and how Parks went from zero public awareness to attempting to rush this through. 

    • Jackson K October 28, 2023 (7:37 am)

      The courts location is removed from the majority of the park. I support pickleball courts and look forward to riding my bike and playing at Lincoln Park. 

    • Jeff October 29, 2023 (8:03 pm)

      Rhonda the victim is also trying to take Lightrail away from us and all the other things majority wants.

  • 1994 October 27, 2023 (9:28 pm)

    I am waiting for ‘Big Pepsi’ to comment.  The first ‘Big Pepsi’ comment was totally weird and Seattle funny.  Herbold – you are too late for many of us who would have preferred some action on  public safety concerns and public health concerns for the past 4 years.  

  • New Deal October 27, 2023 (9:28 pm)

    Finally, she is adding value to our community.  People may laugh but take a stroll through the Park now and look at the ridiculous fencing.  Play your sport at Solstice Park where no one cares and courts already exist.  Geesh!

    • Alki resident October 27, 2023 (9:43 pm)

      Tennis players have already said they want separate courts from pickle ball. 

      • Protect the Park October 27, 2023 (10:48 pm)

        So logically then since everyone besides PBrs and tennis players want the park left alone and since we all must get what we want then by your example, the park should be left alone. So wow, I want a pony ride, deep fried twinkies and a hot air balloon concession in Lincoln so I guess my special interest group gets its way to regardless, too.  Neat!

        • Alki resident October 28, 2023 (5:07 am)

          There’s actually quite a few that will now be taking up pickle ball since this all started. There’s 5 million players in our country, it’s not a dead sport. 

          • Sampras October 29, 2023 (12:43 pm)

            There are 24 million tennis players.It seems like the best thing to do would be to teach the pickleballers to play tennis. That way we could actually get people moving and reduce the rate of diabetes while keeping the noise down.

        • Jackson K October 28, 2023 (7:41 am)

          It’s a Multi Purpose Park and the courts will be right next to the existing baseball, soccer fields and playground. This will be an improvement to the eye sore that is the existing concrete slab. With a proper build, the noise will be limited 

        • Diversityinpark October 28, 2023 (12:53 pm)

          Actually things like those you listed, ‘Protect the Park,’ have occurred in Lincoln Park.  
          I fondly remember out-door rock concerts down in the South picnic area in the late sixties.  
          We had school and community celebrations and festivals with clowns, helium balloons and even potato sack races.  
          Ponies and horses, including the SPD’s Mounted Squad, have also been through the park.  
          It has a wonderful deep history that some don’t know about while others wish to deny?
          There used to be a permanent concession stand at the base of the roadway, now path, down to Colman Pool near where the Poison Oak Sign is now.
          Back then,  were people were more accepting of others and not so judgmental about others enjoyment of city land dedicated to recreation?

      • TM October 27, 2023 (11:43 pm)

        Adversityinpark has already said he wants separate courts from pickleball. Or something like that, as long as there’s no pickleball in his Solstice Park.

        • Diversityinpark October 29, 2023 (3:14 pm)

          Please TM?  

          I don’t believe I wrote that I want separate courts for pickleball?

          I am adamant about keeping Lincoln Park as a multi-use recreation area, as it has always been intended, one that sees a diversity people and activities.  
          I am opposed to the small group, overwhelmingly middle aged white senior activists who are attempting to redefine our beloved park as a “Wildlife Preserve.” 
          The activists have never provided any evidence of their various claims.  
          If they had data or evidence, they would use it. 

          I walked by the protest today and it must have been disappointing for the activists. After a week of promoting this demonstration and crowing (pardon the pun) about 4,000 plus supporters, TV news, Op-ED by pro lobbyist in the Seattle Times. excellent coverage in the WSB and a ‘lame duck’ councilperson’s response, the turnout was a bust.  

          When I walked by, there were about the same number of Fauntleroy Way sign wavers as last time.  

          It appeared to be the same small group, still little diversity, in age or race.

  • MM October 27, 2023 (9:34 pm)

    Seems a pretty balanced letter to me that asks some valid questions.   Perhaps we could all get better visibility from our councillor into what is being done about the daily and seemingly ever increasing acts of violence in west seattle 

  • Diversityinpark October 27, 2023 (9:50 pm)

    For a little perspective on noisy city parks, let’s take Audubon NYC’s revelations regarding the decimation of birds in this concrete and skyscraper environment. “

    “Since the creation of Central Park, more than 280 bird species have been recorded here; 192 are regular visitors or year-round residents and over 88 are infrequent or rare visitors.”  
    Lincoln Park has 160!
    The bird species collection in the
     heart of Manhattan in the most visited urban park in the country shame the bird collection of our pristine and quiet LINCOLN PARK.  

  • Lisa Z October 27, 2023 (9:53 pm)

    I’m hearing a lot of “back in the day,” and “who cares,” and “the way we’ve done it,” type comments. This is colonizer reasoning that dates less than 300 years in our region. In only 50 years, 3 billion birds in North America’s bird population have vanished. I value people taking a stance that supports Lincoln Park as a wildlife sanctuary first and foremost, for the sake of humans and non-human beings. It shows foresight and respect.It’s time to do things differently, to slow down, stand up, and care about beings other than ourselves.  ICYMI: The bird organization Lisa Herbold sites in her letter, Birds Connect Seattle, is formerly the Seattle Audubon Society, part of the largest bird conservation network in the US   Check out for more information on the fate of birds. 

    • Protect the Park October 27, 2023 (10:42 pm)

      Well stated!

    • Alki resident October 28, 2023 (5:10 am)

      Lincoln Park isn’t a wildlife sanctuary and millions of birds have dropped from the fly over the years, and had nothing to do with pickle ball noise. This is a multi use park and it’ll always be. 

    • HS October 28, 2023 (8:34 am)

      Agreed. In addition, Seattle has had a significant tree canopy loss in the last decade. The health and ecosystem of our urban forested areas is extremely important and worthy of research and discussion.

    • Teti October 28, 2023 (9:36 pm)

      Well said Lisa Z.  Thank you.

    • Scarlett October 29, 2023 (11:54 pm)

      Lisa Z:  Yes, but if one goes beyond the scary headline, the results paint a much more mixed, nuanced picture.  For example, while there have been notable declines in bird biomass in the East and South regions, the Pacific and Central regions (migrating birds) have actually increased.  Too, many of the declines have been among non-native species, such as starlings  and house sparrows which make up 15% of the decline; hundreds of species have actually experienced small population gains (even acknowledged by the authors of the study.)  There are as many ways to interpret a study as this as there are birds, but I am extremely skeptical that we are in the midst of a bird apocalyse. 

      • SE Dick October 31, 2023 (1:08 pm)

        What I (how did I miss this?) gotta read another study? Even the ones that on their face or as introduced will clearly support all I’ve read learned and witnessed in the past? Bc you w/o copypasting one specific thing or presenting any substantive counter-evidence or argument to anything wanna snark back at somebody who cares abt something? Ok I will, Scarlett! Cuz I think yr a bully! And then you and I can go toe-to-toe, point counterpoint rebut concede, ok? And in the meantime would you kindly go up or down to any if the myriad logically valid points and responses Divert’s been unable to step up to and do that for them, scientifically? Thx! Here I go! Ok I tried! Clicked the above! What fu**ing study! I can’t find it! Do you mean the one they’re talking about? Georgetown Cornell Smithsonian and the rest? (The other ‘biased’ science-based advocates?) The “report in the world’s leading scientific journal.Published in Science by researchers at seven institutions”? Because i don’t find a link! I really don’t! I don’t know why! It’s on me! I’m just asking! So pls provide the one yr talking abt and I mean that sincerely, not being a Dic*! Then you and I can go, right here, per scientific method and AGAIN! the RULES of logic, as to whether there are “as many ways to interpret a study”–*that* study! *one* study! a *particular* study!–“as this as there are birds”. I await.

  • ArabianRhino October 27, 2023 (9:55 pm)

    Long live the Great West Seattle Pickleball feud! I love this ridiculous golden goose story. Herbold gets out of bed for a trivial issue but is AWOL on public safety. Seattle politics in a nutshell. Put a bird on it. Or better yet, provide safe injection sites and harm reduction so the park squirrels can huff fentanyl

  • Jethro Marx October 27, 2023 (9:55 pm)

    “More than 160 species of birds have been reported at Lincoln Park. That’s approximately 64% of all bird species that occur in Seattle from a park that represents just 0.25% of our land area.”

    This weird combination of numbers that sound scienceish is meaningless, yet dying to be misinterpreted.

    • Protect the Park October 27, 2023 (10:41 pm)

      I encourage you to read up on this issue. You clearly don’t under understand how birds use the habitat around here. Misunderstanding is not misinterpreting. 

      • Jethro Marx October 28, 2023 (8:51 am)

        I am quite familiar, but perhaps I missed something- do you have proof that pickleball courts impact bird populations in a negative way? Not pleas to google this or that or anecdotes or “common sense” but actual evidence? Because the people arguing against parks have not offered anything other than empty claims supporting their key contention.

        Councilmember Herbold’s “statistics” are utter nonsense, as she has simply shown that some birds commonly seen in Seattle are commonly seen at the park. But the phrasing is structured to imply that this tiny piece of Seattle is carrying a heavier load when it comes to supporting bird populations than your average patch of blackberries and trees. 

        • SE Dick October 28, 2023 (12:39 pm)

          Oh, hell man, I hadn’t read this when I tipped my hat to your humor. I thought you were kidding, and I thought you were smarter than this–so smart and funny the response I wrote last night wasn’t worthy. If you want better arguments and evidence and so on regarding blah blah blah what you said, read the earlier 350 comments on this disgrace dating to 10/21 and cogitate them or don’t. (Got a lot of frequent flyers here to show you how to ignore anything you want to.) Here’s the response of mine I thought flew beneath your radar, if you want it:  “Jethro I think yer one a those Mad Hatter guys–I *think* cuz I can’t rilly figure it out but those smart inward guys sitting back takin giant bong hits grinning and just effin with everything as it goes by, bc why? Or why not? Generally not my cuppa tea in the midst of murderous earth-shaking polemical seriousness (that’s me) but after ‘joking me softly’ I just keep laughing my guts out at this. If I even get it. <full stop> So thx fr that. But If I get it, the weird combo’s rilly not meaningless, tho I can read it that way. What it says is that a wide variety of birds really concentrate in little LP bc it’s so hospitable there. (Which to me is reason to regard it as a miraculous natural balance we might by now understand 1% about, not just waste space to throw unwanted adverse impacts at but I’m definitely not laughing anymore so full stop.) But you probly knew that. But don’t really care. Or do. But either way throw a wig on it. So ups ta dat. Also I cld be wrong. But keep it up.”  Or don’t. I can’t tell.

        • SE Dick October 28, 2023 (12:47 pm)

          See “arguing against parks”–did I again speak too hastily? Are you after all cosmic clownin’? Or did you in fact mean ‘Parks’?? If the latter, hell with it. If the former, I need a bong.

        • SE Dick October 29, 2023 (9:55 pm)

          More for you, ‘thro, now that I read what you said. I mighta badly misread ya, but who knows. Not as certain a mental shipwreck as others. Here, to your snarky above:,Nestlings%20in%20the%20noisiest%20environments%20had%20smaller%20body%20sizes%20and,can't%20escape%20this%20noise.&nbsp;  Yes this asks that you click it, and I know that’s a lot, and no it’s not abt pickleball–but if nationwide lawsuits over pb noise can’t establish for us that it’s noisy, I already cited (found for you all) a source saying its noise is at the same frequency as the frequency at which birds have been observed behaviorally to be most sensitive, and I’ll go back and find that, and do more research (for you all) to better sustantiate the hypothesis that birds would sue if they could over pb noise too. Ok? Ok. But if you *don’t* want to click on the link, here’s the first thing it would say, big letters: Noise pollution causes chronic stress in birds, with health consequences for young.” And here’s the great thing, *not* just that this is from a museum, a .edu, but that it’s the same Natl Inst of Science study Divertdisturbance would have to click *two links* to see! Because I like you! Just, in a platter! Dig in! 2+2!

          • Diversityinpark October 29, 2023 (11:07 pm)

            Remarkable Googling SE DICK.
            I tried it myself, again (Google!) and came up with some interesting academic papers.  
            This 2023 study sampled European cities with lots of academic caveats (rightly!), no bold headlines.  

            But the results are surprising.Additionally, birds can adapt to high levels of noise pollution by adjusting their vocalizations38and maintaining their presence on such sites, which may lead to the absence of the impact of noise on avian communities59. Thus, we suggest that noise pollution impacts could be site-specific, and further studies collecting data with noise recorders are needed.”,noise%20on%20avian%20communities59.

          • SE Dick October 30, 2023 (1:53 am)

            DISCLAIMER: This length belongs to Divertattentioninpark. Having for a week drummed up a chorus of demands to be fed, baby bird, direct scientific studies on pickleball and birds, he thought he’d blind everyone with a hard-science link–and this is my defense.  ○  Yer slippery, friend, but yer outta yer depth. You’ve dipped yer toes in Google! and gosh props for that. Now you think you’ll spar using *studies*. Again, seems a little tardy. But you’ll wow the kids who like you whine at clicking a link, and at the fact that if they do the facts they’re fed aren’t from a study of pickleball per se, by flooding the soapbox with for starters this:  “Then, we modelled the avian composition in European cities, concerning the main environmental drivers (green cover and green heterogeneity), anthropic pollution, latitude and longitude, using Generalized Linear Mixed Models (GLMMs). We included latitude and longitude as covariates in our modelling procedures because previous studies have shown that bird species composition can change in a latitudinal or longitudinal gradient.”  Hooray. Proves to me pb’s good, right? But that’s yr whine, not mine. My instant point here is threefold: 1) your citation does bear a big-letter headline. Here it is.Effects of light and noise pollution on avian communities of European cities are correlated with the species’ dietSo, maybe wouldn’t have been warmly met had it been posted by me. Not on its face explicitly abt pb, but I am easy, man, I’m chill. But the headline’s gen’ly what the body’s abt. So let’s find a conclusion.  ○  Gosh to do that I had to basically read the study. And these things are nuts, with stuff like the abv. Nobody will read them. You didn’t; I can’t imagine how you quoted what you did *and* missed the header. *Or* you did–and you’re a willful, even clever liar. Because this is what the lines you used were pulled from, and nobody will read it, and I did and barely know what it means, but it means your lines were a limited point about *a highly urban site*–streets, buildings, cars–and not the respite for all beings from all that that’s a park, so that in this *limited context*, one example of a highly stressed site, birds have been known to some degree to cope, relative to that. (And what descends from what I just said is worse than that; see 3). So 2) here’s *your fuller point*: “Regarding noise pollution, several examples are screening the effects of noise on wildlife. Previous studies underlined that anthropogenic noise could decrease species diversity and change the community structure. Specifically, the number of species in songbird communities can be negatively affected by urban noise. However, our study found a lack of association between avian community metrics (e.g., species richness of each type of diet) and the level of noise pollution. This result could be associated with noise pollution estimated through a modelling procedure. Even if this is a standardized methodology, more accurate and in situ measurements would probably increase the power of analyses. A potential drawback in the modelling procedure for estimating noise pollution is that it was based on the type of streets and surrounding building structures. But the density of cars can be different among countries, introducing a confounding factor (e.g., in Finland, the density of cars was lower if compared with Spanish cities). Additionally, birds can adapt to high levels of noise pollution by adjusting their vocalizations and maintaining their presence on such sites, which may lead to the absence of the impact of noise on avian communities. Thus, we suggest that noise pollution impacts could be site-specific, and further studies collecting data with noise recorders are needed.” Whew, right? Seriously. Nobody will read that–which is exploited as a tactic by operatives like you. But you somehow, god knows how, cherry-picked from that. Slimy. Bc 3) the point of the study was the oppo of you–and pb. *HERE IT IS, KIDS*: “The level of green heterogeneity (e.g., relative coverage of different substrates of vegetation in the urban area, such as grass, shrubs, and trees), instead, was positively correlated with species richness for all trophic guilds (granivorous, insectivorous, and omnivorous), also increasing the level of diet heterogeneity in the communities. These results underscore the important role of green habitat heterogeneity on the biodiversity of urban areas.” Still not abt pb, still not abt noise. *Your evidence, genius*. But! They go on: “Our findings have some important conservation implications: Noise pollution seems less detrimental to urban avian communities than previously suggested.” Which still has no logical bearing on whether pb noise should be added *here*, and is said in the context of a study on diet incl buildings and cars! But forget that! They go on! and I mean next word: “Instead, our models suggest that the degree of light pollution more significantly impacts avian communities’ composition.” And Denise, GBH, others sagely point out: this is all a smokescreen. Lights–guaranteed–are planned for Lincoln Park. The study goes on, and on–again, Divert’s evidence–not that this joke is good, or even mostly about noise, but that “Several measures proposed to increase avian diversity in eco-friendly cities are related to increasing the amount of green corridors.” So thx, li’l Dip, but the citizenry’s got yer number. Lights out.

          • y'all are overthinking October 30, 2023 (7:18 am)

            But, see, the pickle ball courts wouldn’t decrease the amount of green habitat.  Since what’s there right now is just a big concrete slab.  It’s even a big concrete slab with loud, polluting trucks regularly visiting.  Maybe a big concrete slab busy with people exercising and playing is better than a big concrete slab busy with trucks.  That goes for people and wildlife.

          • SE Dick October 30, 2023 (2:06 pm)

            Y’all aren’t thinking enough. That would require at least quick scroll thru ~600 posts prior, explaining too much to say again here. But ‘habitat’ is not sq ft of grass, habitat is roots, the quiet you all want for your babies, the darkness when it’s dark for dozens more reasons than we have or understand. (You skipped over my last part.) One of those earlier posts–mine–said if you don’t know what you’re talking about it would be decent to bow out. Think abt that. Or don’t: you’ll have more company.

          • Neighbor October 30, 2023 (2:54 pm)

            Hey Dick, I think you can take your own advice here. A friend and I were discussing how difficult it is to decipher your screeds, and we’re fairly intelligent folks. So we used ChatGPT to critique one of your passages. Here’s its feedback:

             The passage is not well-written for several reasons:

            Clarity: The passage lacks clarity due to its convoluted sentence structures, making it hard for readers to follow the argument.Tone: The tone is sarcastic and confrontational, which might alienate readers and hinder effective communication.

            Organization: The passage lacks clear organization, making it challenging to discern the main points and their logical flow.

            Jargon: The use of technical jargon and abbreviations without adequate explanation can confuse readers not familiar with the specific terminology.

            Redundancy: There is a repetition of points and arguments, making the passage unnecessarily long and confusing.

            Lack of Focus: The passage seems to jump between different topics (scientific studies, urban planning, noise pollution, etc.) without a clear focus, making it challenging for readers to grasp the main message.

            Overall, the passage could benefit significantly from improved clarity, organization, and a more respectful tone to effectively convey the intended message to readers.

          • SE Dick October 30, 2023 (4:35 pm)

            Nice. I write for a very wide, lcd–nope, not the screen–populist audience, and for the discrimination not of them but of ChatGPT. Ask it what it thinks of that. Very gracious, tho, a modern-day Deep Blue moment for little old me. Humbled. Still waiting. So it goes.

          • Diversityinpark October 30, 2023 (10:07 am)

            Fairly comprehensive study SE DICk. This might require several of your bong visits.

          • Y'ALL ARE OVERTHINKING October 30, 2023 (4:06 pm)

            SE Dick,

            I’ll use your very own words then.

              “But ‘habitat’ is not sq ft of grass, habitat is roots, the quiet you all want for your babies”

            Okay.  And you somehow think a barren concrete slab with regular heavy truck activity is superior to people playing and exercising.  Because that is what’s there right now–a paved dumping ground for park debris.  With trucks regularly pulling in.  If you think THAT is a better “habitat” well, then, we’re done here, simple as that. (You’re wrong, obviously, but equally obviously there’s no arguing with you.)

            “the darkness when it’s dark for dozens more reasons than we have or understand. (You skipped over my last part.)”

            Right, I did skip that, because I’m not arguing for lights (certainly not the headlights of the trucks that are currently there).

            “One of those earlier posts–mine–said if you don’t know what you’re talking about it would be decent to bow out. Think abt that. Or don’t: you’ll have more company.”


  • Protect the Park October 27, 2023 (10:06 pm)

    Thank you Ms. Herbold. Please ask the Superintendent to also provide data that supports the need for this to even happen. Not feelings, facts. Show us usage rates of existing courts (he can’t). Have him demonstrate how a massive rebuild on top of the existing maintenance yard is considered maintenance. Maintenance is paint, caulking….not jack hammering and pouring additional concrete and asphalt. (Not to mention lighting).  Also ask him who in his department is pushing this and how a single big money individual blocked the stripping at solstice. This whole thing stinks and has since day one. $5 that Diaz refuses to meet as he can’t answer any of the relevant questions or concerns. In other words, he’s a coward. 

    • Marine Jim October 27, 2023 (10:22 pm)


    • Teti October 28, 2023 (9:41 pm)


  • dobt October 27, 2023 (10:17 pm)

    Go ahead  and built them and be done with it.  If you don’t want to play PB there, then just don’t go

    • Protect the Park October 27, 2023 (10:54 pm)

      Or if you can’t bother to drive to the dozens of other courts in WS, then don’t play PB.  No need to trash Lincoln for a project with no demonstrated need. 

      • Jackson K October 28, 2023 (7:46 am)

        These courts will be an improvement. I’m guessing you haven’t seen where the courts are being built. Small area far away from 90% of the existing Park. Everyone will have what they want. Some will get their quiet time, others will get their exercise. 

      • TM October 28, 2023 (8:49 am)

        Or if you can’t bother to drive to the dozens of other courts in WS, then don’t play PB.  No need to trash Lincoln for a project with no demonstrated need.”

        Agreed. Seattle already has more pickleball courts per capita than any city in the US, with plans for more on the way. It’s a proven high noise-impact sport (just google pickleball noise complaints). No thanks to jacking up Lincoln Park for this niche demand. 

        • SE Dick October 28, 2023 (3:31 pm)

          “Only 15 cities have more than 10 pickleball courts per 100,000 people.” Per, June of this year. We have 20. More go in Lincoln? Yer out of yer minds. Or somebody’s been bought. Now, let’s follow the money.

          • Diversityinpark October 29, 2023 (5:51 pm)

            Per June this year.  
            Thanks for your first  citation,SE DICK.  
            A quick Google search, (thanks for telling me about Google!) reveals the author of the limited info on the commercial real estate  was quoting  theTrust for Public Lands

            “Driving the news:
             With pickleball becoming a way of life, the Trust for Public Land (TPL), a pro-parks nonprofit, ranked U.S. cities by pickleball courts per capita.

            • A number of local park systems, including those in Seattle, Auburn and Bellevue, offer pickleball classes for novices who’d like to get in on the fun.

            Why it matters: America’s fastest-growing sport is a boon for players who are aging out of tennis — and others who dig its vibe — but it draws complaints from tennis players who’ve been kicked off their turf, Axios’ Jennifer A. Kingson and Alice Feng report.What they’re saying: 

            “The cities that have really good park systems tend to be the ones that have a lot of pickleball courts,” says Will Klein, associate director of parks research at TPL. Seattle ranked eighth among TPL’s list of the nation’s best city park systems.”

          • SE Dick October 29, 2023 (8:18 pm)

            Telling you about Google is giving you a nuclear bomb without a trigger, or more gremlins to attach to your head. I have no idea what you think your exposé of my dirt-simple stat says–did you reveal that I was hiding the nefarious source of my data behind the site where I found it? Or that my cited source–you call (I’d nvr hrd of before) or its writer “the author of the limited info on the commercial real estate”–cannot be trusted bc of whatever that meant? or bc The Trust for Public Lands advocates for access to <gasp> parks? Do you deduce that bc TPL concerns itself with parks *and* with recreation, *specifically* pickleball, *and* with nature, that its secret agenda is to take all the commercial real estate away and give it to birds? Or do you cleverly turn my own CoStar gun on me and prove by the fact that parks systems have pb classes that pb should be–no *has* been, *already*, *done deal*, I know you’ve *told* me–sited where there’s an old buckled concrete slab that would have to be ripped up with a backhoe and gd *replaced*?! not resurfaced? not maintained or remodeled but gd *replaced*?! Are you hearing me?! At the expense of the roots of 60 to 149 or 200yo trees AND SO OF THE TREES, geniuses, and a last spot of shady green quiet and all the *beings* you know *NOTHING ABOUT* nesting and doing *EVERYTHING ELSE LIFE REQUIRES* there in and around it and up in those trees? And on the near slope you clearly know better than I do will trigger real reviews, controls and regulations if we can DRAG the gd SCALES or filthy lucre or *WHATEVER IT IS* from our duly elected or unilaterally-appointed City leaders’ eyes?!? I guess that’s a question? I guess it’s, do you think that outrageous insanity is what you’ve proven, Dollar D? Bc you’ve proven one thing and one thing only to me: my thinking that nothing good would come of my getting anywhere near any of you with your crowd counts and cameras today probably saved lives. Your knowing- or unknowingly anti-rational garbage in service of a garbage anti-democratic ugly consumerist assault on too many gd good things has my heart slamming in my chest from here. Got a cardiac history. I’ll risk it in writing, and otherwise as i choose. But I warn you, all you Yahoos: you’re wrong. Demonstrably, logically, objectively wrong. If you never learn enough to see that, again: it’s not gonna be silvered hippies singin kum-ba-ya. But here, genius, I’ll start spoon-feeding what y’all bawl for.;  That’s a website hiding that its source is the National Academy of Sciences. You can click the provided link yourself for the actual study and wade right into its weedy details, or you can spew garbage that should be revealing to anyone thinking. I’ll keep engaging you, friend–no apologies. And as I’ve said, there’s more.

  • Alayna October 27, 2023 (10:34 pm)

    If they could be built somewhere outside of the dense forest, that would be fantastic.  Why not at Lowman Beach where they recently ripped out tennis courts?  I live really close to Solstice and would welcome them there, I just don’t want the quiet nature to be wrecked by a high pitched annoying noise.  What about the Morgan Junction vacant lot? Thank you Lisa Herbold!         

    • Mike October 28, 2023 (8:44 am)

      “dense forest”WOW…have you ever been to an actual forest?

  • Patty October 27, 2023 (10:40 pm)

    Great news! We have a council member who wants to follow the rules and the prescribed process. Why is Diaz trying to ramrod this through without environmental considerations or community input in a wooded area of a revered park? I remember the commercial zipline idea that some tried to push onto Lincoln Park. We said no, and preserved the park for future generations. This is another shortsighted idea that would take away the quiet urban oasis that is so special and unique in our city. The people that have these bad ideas leave their positions in government, but the effects of their policies are everlasting.  The park was set aside for us; it’s our job to protect it for the next generation.

    • Raye October 28, 2023 (12:11 am)

      Thank you, Patty, Protect the Park, and others – including Ms. Herbold.  You expressed it more eloquently that I ever could. Parks and Wreck has displayed arrogance, incompetence, and indifference. We, the taxpayers, deserve better.

    • Suzy Que October 28, 2023 (6:12 am)

      So your “environmental” reason should suggest that the ferry dock be moved, parking be removed from Lincoln park, and all picnic and active recreation removed from Lincoln Park. Pure BS.  As an environmental professional working in the field for 25 years, there is no merit to the environmental impact allegations. This is pure and simple – not in my park. The allegations sure live up to Seattle’s reputation for getting nothing done. 

      • Patty October 28, 2023 (9:16 am)

        The ferry dock and parking are outside of the park, not in the middle of the forested area. I’m surprised to hear you’re an environmental professional. Do work on the corporate side, finding ways to skirt around environmental regulations?

  • alice October 28, 2023 (12:01 am)

    Yes! Finally we are starting to put a more a democratic process in place to decide as a community what to do with our precious park – vs some sort of unilateral decision by parks. Well done, Lisa! Thank you to Birds Connect,  my neighbors who wrote emails with me, and the literally thousands of petition signers:

  • diversityinpark October 28, 2023 (12:30 am)

    Please copy and paste my email to Councilmember Lisa Herbold


    I was shocked to read your statement regarding the Lincoln Park as a Wildlife Refuge activists. 
    This anonymous group of dedicated wildlife activists “concerns” are unsubstantiated despite the Audubon’s  century of research and robustly funded lobbying.  
    There is no evidence that inclusive diverse recreation decimates species population.  
    NYC Audubon reports more species amongst the landlocking, glass walled skyscraper canyons of its Central Park than it does of our beloved Lincoln Park. NYC Central Park 280 Lincoln Park 160 (both Audabon studies). 
    I am particularly incensed that you wrote, “a constituent also reports”, which is nothing but anecdotal, as some sort of proof? 
    I am appalled of you inserting yourself into this especially as it is too late, the work has started, extra moneys have and are now being spent to protect park workers from these activists. 
    SPD has deployed three squad cars to allow innocent city employees, brothers and sisters, some safety while at work.  
    These same activists beside their illegal self described “occupying public space” ,”two threatening men with dogs” and littered the park with dozens of flyers with Councilperson Herbold’s link.  
    Councilperson, your late intrusion has the appearance of condoning these non-legal actions? 
    I would appreciate your reply with a few facts regarding the claims you are basing your action on?
    I am a constituent and stakeholder, neither pickleballer nor birder.
    Lincoln Park has historically been a wonderful place for all peoples to recreate.
    The old courts seem perfect for the new sport of pickleball which requires less space, and lower ‘headroom’ for lobs than tennis so no trees that were originally planted surrounding the court need be trimmed.  
    The sounds in the Park are everywhere, stop and listen.  
    They are the sounds of the playground,  the little kicker soccer shriekers, dogs barking and crows crowing. I go there daily.
    Please correct your course and your legacy?

    • Cat Girl October 28, 2023 (8:00 am)

      Why are you people so afraid of letting your fellow citizens have a say in this matter? Your letter is ridiculous and completely misleading. 

      • Teti October 28, 2023 (9:48 pm)

        Spot on Cat Girl

      • Diversityinpark October 29, 2023 (6:13 pm)

        Please have at it Cat Girl.Ditto TETI.What specifically is “ridiculous” and “misleading” that I wrote?
        I do know that it is misleading to claim that there will be both an off leash dog park in the meadow with the pickleball.  
        I do know that it is a ‘red herring’ invoking SEPA as confirmed by all authorities.
        I do know that it  is misleading to make claims about wildlife destruction, and provide no evidence.
        I do know that these people want to remove the historical active  recreation from parks, which will lead to concerns about loud children in the play area, loud little kickers, their teenage and adult footballers, and those pesky little leaguers with screaming parents.  

        All of these sounds are currently present and as loud as pickleball in this location.  Oh,

        I forgot the constant loud interruption, everywhere in the park, by barking dogs.

        The activists so concerned about the park, have express no outrage about dogs and the immense damage to both flora and fauna allowed by their owners.  

        • SE Dick October 29, 2023 (9:15 pm)

          SE Dick yesterday, 4:23p, very uncharacteristically short post in direct response to you. Don’t tell me you didn’t read it. Brave Councilmember “…Lisa Herbold understand[s] the analysis and position that no SEPA analysis is needed”… which “confirmed” and said it confirmed nothing.”  Plead ignorance–no need. To ‘understand the analysis and position’ of a country that it has the right to do something to another country is just that, and no more: to comprehend what it says it can do and how it came to that conviction. Not one word of that validates either side. It’s in fact a stateswomanlike way to say ‘I understand what you’re saying and without presenting my argument want to signal to you that I may disagree.’ The end. Today, you: “I do know that it is a ‘red herring’ invoking SEPA as confirmed by all authorities.” So the only question is which are you? and none of the choices are flattering. I’d say “ridiculous” and “misleading” are straight-up charity. You do not want to ask me.

    • TM October 28, 2023 (8:57 am)

      Adversityinpark, you forgot to add to your letter “or consider the original plan, re-striping the Solstice Park courts. Quicker, less expensive and a more appropriate space with less pesky community opposition”.

      You’re a neighbor to the Solstice courts, you could help roll out the red carpet for this fun, low-impact (according to you) sport. 

    • SE Dick October 28, 2023 (9:04 am)

      Translation, condensation, of gobbledygook (save WS’ brave representative of thinking constituents and the Big Picture some time): divertdisturbancetopark is a lifelong lover of gentle tennis living very near what may as well have been their very own courts at Solstice and wants desperately to preserve (!) that untrammeled privilege. Whether they’re grossly ignorant of the fact that, since the long-ago dawning of the Age of Aquarius and founding of Earth Day brought a radical (thank and bless you Rusty) change of course to the damage we hadn’t realized we’d been doing to the planet, all non-human elements of Nature are now under pressure from all sides by skyrocketing human population and development, or they’re not, divertdisturbance has in ~40 frantic posts seeded this brave little public forum with disinformation, deception, diversion and what really seem like lies as if the greatest joy of their golden years is threatened with extinction. And has implied they have a ton of money to devote to shunting that threat onto places and lives they know and care immeasurably less about. So. Full disclosure, little d, just to catch errbody up. If you’d just been honest about it this all mighta gone different.

    • Jethro Marx October 28, 2023 (9:06 am)

      Yikes. If you’re trying to get some kind of form letter going you ought to proofread it. You spelled Audubon like three different ways, for a start. It does have approximately the same amount of typos and half-hearted grammar as Councilmember Herbold’s, though, so maybe that’s where we’re at, society-wise.

      • SE Dick October 28, 2023 (11:34 am)

        You, sir (I don’t care) are a treasure. I keep scrolling across yer posts and am still laughing every time. I just howled out loud yet again at just *thinking* of ‘joking me softly’. You hang in here.

      • Diversityinpark October 28, 2023 (11:50 am)

        Valid point Jethro.
        Lousy typist, my typos are obvious (obliviously).  
        But the information is accurate with sources provided.  
        The flyers being littered around our park may be more typo free, but contain  false misleading information.  
        I think I can rest my late night proofreading for typos of Audubon’s spelling (lacking the staff of Herbold), now that it is called “Birds Connect Seattle.”  
        I do wonder what the budget and process for such a digital age  re-branding? BIRDS CONNECT SEATTLE , formerly
        The Audubon  Society, 
         rebranding avoids the founder’s history of racism.  
        Interestingly, the National Audubon Society is sticking with the racist founder who owned nine slaves in his home and was an anti-abolitionist.

    • Actually Mike October 28, 2023 (9:15 am)

      Thanks for suggesting that the rest of us contact Councilor Herbold, and for sharing the text of your tome. Preferring not to be mistaken for a snarky blowhard or a know-it-all, I’ve decided to use my own words rather than yours and have drafted a concise note to Ms. Herbold expressing my view as a District 1 resident and voter that pickleball courts do not belong in Lincoln Park, and Mr. Diaz’s attempt to do an end-run around public opinion and SEPA requirements is misbegotten. Thanks again for your inspiration, DiP.

    • WS Res October 28, 2023 (12:35 pm)

      Thanks, I edited your text somewhat but it was helpful to have a template to start with. 

  • Scarlett October 28, 2023 (1:36 am)

    I’ve never such shoddy use of research studies to support opposition to a pickleball courts.  The lack of scientific training in this country is appalling, and typified by those “environmentalists” who rip a scary headline from a study abstract, never having read the entire study.  Most wouldn’t know statistical significance from clinical significance or a confidence interval from a “confidence man.”  Please, don’t taint science with your fumblings for purpose and meaning in life. 

    • WestSeattleBadTakes October 28, 2023 (7:19 am)

      Not too dissimilar from your posts about lightrail though, have a look in the mirror.

      • Scarlett October 30, 2023 (12:17 pm)

        Yeah,  like you and others imaginery, fanciful projections about light rail riding in to save the day.    Difficult for me to understand how those like yourself, who I’m sure would describe themselves as reasonable, thoughtful people, can have such an irrational streak.  

    • TM October 28, 2023 (9:10 am)

      I’ve never such shoddy use of research studies to support opposition to a pickleball courts.”

      Shoddy- like Parks’ impact study (is there one?)? Shoddy- like Parks’ “offset” claim regarding the moving of the storage area providing a significant, and somehow in-kind offset? Shoddy- like the claim that this project is “categorically exempt from SEPA review”, because decades ago it held 2 tennis courts (which do not equate to 6 pickleball courts, with high db/high impulsive noise impact)? 

      • Diveersityinpark October 28, 2023 (11:27 am)

        That is correct TM.  
        After a hundred years of funding the study of birds and lobbying for bird environment, big business endowed Audubon Society has no studies.  
        Kersti Muul has no studies.  
        Lisa Herbold obvious has nothing.
        Central Park in the concrete canyons of NYC has a third more bird species than Lincoln Park.  
        And 16 outdoor pickleball courts.  
        That Audubon info is more factual than any of the  anecdotal  reports of opposition.  
        Where are the qualified credentialed biologists and ornithologists with factual information?

    • Patty October 28, 2023 (9:29 am)

      This is laughable! I’m curious what scary headline environmentalists have ripped from a scientific abstract on this issue.

    • JustSarah October 28, 2023 (10:37 am)

      I know a few “real” biologists (meaning they have and will gladly share their educational credentials) in the neighborhood who also see no merit to these claims. 

  • For the Birds October 28, 2023 (4:32 am)

    Thank you, Lisa Herbold, and thank you to all who aren’t giving up. The majestic birds and wildlife are worth it. 

  • Q-chan October 28, 2023 (6:52 am)

    Just play the quiet version of pickleball called PickleSpec…then everyone is happy.

  • Joe October 28, 2023 (7:12 am)


  • SeaWalk October 28, 2023 (7:30 am)

    Wait, so pickle ball courts are bad for birds and the environment, huh? In that case, I need a “No pickle ball courts” sticker for my SUV:)

  • John October 28, 2023 (8:01 am)

    There’s one thing that confuses me about this. Where is the uproar about off leash dogs in the park? Not only are they illegal but they do physical damage to the park and are a public safety issue. No protesters about that and it occurs on a daily basis, rain or shine. And what about free roaming cats? I’m pretty sure they are the number one killers of birds and no one mentions them? If you are going to protest the noise of these courts please take a stand against the other real issues that affect the park.

    • Duwamesque October 28, 2023 (12:41 pm)

      The answer, friend, is that these so called “environmentalists” do not actually care about bird population numbers. Free roaming cats kill an estimated one BILLION birds per year so if you actually cared about saving the birds that would be a more obvious place to start than dubious claims about pickleball noise (for which there is NO evidence). These people are just NIMBYs and frankly disingenuous with their intentions.

      • Mary October 29, 2023 (8:07 pm)

        the dog park was never a go, just proposed, and we all DID sign a petition against it. I’m a dog owner and pickleball player and want neither in this park.

        • Diversityinpark October 29, 2023 (10:00 pm)

          Mary, you write, “we all DID sign a petition.”  
          Is that the same petition as the one against pickleball?  
          If it is, is it possible that some of the 5,000 signers were petitioning against the off leash park  and not against the pickleball?
          And of course, vice versa: some of those 5,000 signed just because the pickleball?  

          Why do you think the petition was written to include two separate park actions, one green lighted without park funding and one a floated proposal with no decision to move on and no specific funding?

  • Jackson K October 28, 2023 (8:02 am)

    Lincoln Park is over 120 acres. The courts will take up less than a half an acre. 

  • WS Native October 28, 2023 (9:00 am)

    So Herbold can’t wrap her edgy head around public safety, basic infrastructure, illegal camping, crime, public transportation (like a bridge) or even closed playgrounds for children who have lacked them for 5+ years, but a bunch of 75 year old NIMBYs complain about owls and pickleball and all of a sudden she’s all over it. I had a feeling we all knew who her constituents were but this is absolutely ridiculous and just reinforces everyone’s opinion about her (on both sides). I guess if you care more about a concrete slab in LP than you do about public safety and basic infrastructure, then you should convince her to run again in the future. I am sure she can fix other important things.

    • Kathy October 28, 2023 (11:50 am)

      I like Lisa and I support the pickleball courts in Lincoln Park. All the carping about Lisa and other public servants in the city …. YOU go work on the City Council and tackle all those issues and come back and tell us how it goes.

  • Across from Park October 28, 2023 (9:16 am)

    I live across from the park and am delighted that there will be pickleball.I wish there was a way that the many, in favor of the courts, could be heard without a public meeting/yelling contest.Instead, the few will probably ruin this. I was disappointed when the old courts became storage for wood chips..  I wish people would put as much effort into stopping people blaring their horns at ferry line cutters. The real noise pollution that sends me running from my park adjacent home on summer afternoons.

  • JustSarah October 28, 2023 (10:27 am)

     Kersti and Denise continue to push out misleading propaganda, and at this point it seems like their goal is simply gumming up the works on this project by creating a ton of noise. Just read the comments on the petition to see how many people think the plan is to remove huge trees and pave over a meadow. It would be amazing if the folks writing in opposition to this had to answer a couple questions on the basic facts of the pickleball plan before their emails, calls, and Facebook posts could go through. Like a captcha for overeager activist types. 

    • Denise October 28, 2023 (7:09 pm)

      The petition is almost at 5,000 signatures. And the text is fully accurate. Any “misleading” is on the Parks Department AND the pickleballer’s’ part—as in: not wanting anyone to know about this until it’s too late, and then not giving us a chance to have input; not wanting anyone to know about where the actual location is (“it’s just a slab,”); not considering ALL the other people who currently use the meadow, trails, playground, picnic areas, and woodlands that would be impacted by the noise; not wanting anyone to have a chance to defend the wildlife against noise or other impacts; insulting all of us to not see with 100% certainty that lights (which are under consideration) will undoubtedly be added at some point, and that trees (whose leaves caused the original tennis courts to be abandoned decades ago) will be at risk; and if an off-leash area is added, fencing and gravel (or similar non-living substrate) would replace the meadow grasses. The petition says exactly what the people need to hear. 

      • Teti October 28, 2023 (10:10 pm)

        Denise, Thank you for your accurate statements.

      • SE Dick October 28, 2023 (10:40 pm)

        Wow. Yer brave, a hero. You got clearly personal petty maybe jealousies or something sniping at you constantly. I’m very late to this threat, and I have you and Kersti and the rest of the timely defenders and the untiring everyone at WSB to thank for my catching wind, and I do, all of you. ○  All good things in life would be lost if not for poets and gentle souls like you… but more and more I think fighting anything in this dirty world can be made a better match if some really angry brawlers bring some Seattle 7 to the good fight. So. This won’t be loggers vs. hippies, ballers. 20 courts per 100k can go elsewhere–or is god damned enough.

      • diversitypark October 29, 2023 (9:47 am)

        Denise please see my noise level measurements.  
        There are verifiable ways to measure sounds in the park.  
        The pickleball and meadow areas are as loud as pickleball, without pickleball.  
        The general level of sound will drown out pickleball.  

        Again, there is no data or research from the million dollar pockets and powerful lobbyists of the Audubon Society.  
        If such research has been done, they must be sitting on it because it does not support their agenda. 

        • Jeff October 30, 2023 (8:15 am)

          Your experiment is carefully chosen with pictures during your own biased times of reporting. And you switch ranges as well as not recording the exact “plonk!” of a pickleball hit. We need video evidence not pictures. Unfortunately. Good “try” though.

          • Diverrsityinpark October 30, 2023 (11:36 am)

            Thanks for your astute criticisms, Jeff.
            I said it was a good faith effort.  
            If I do the testing again per your suggestions, will you accept the results?  
            I did not intentionally switch modes traveling between  samples but they are fairly indicative of the overall level of dBs experienced in the photos.   And if I was being deceptive, I would have framed out the switch settings that I compliment you for noticing.
            I do not understand your comment about the “plonk” of the pickleball?  I was at distance from all noise measurements. 

  • Francis Parkman October 28, 2023 (11:09 am)

    Let’s get HUNDREDS of people to sign my petition to ban from Lincoln Park the incessant screaming of children, barking dogs running loose, and self-entitled neighbors whining about Pickleball that have shattered the tranquility that once defined this park. This is not just my personal grievance. I know many others share this sentiment: Petition · Implement Noise Control Measures in West Seattle’s Lincoln Park · 

    • Pancis Farkman October 28, 2023 (1:23 pm)

      I urge everyone to sign my petition to stop Francis Parkman from posting this same thing over and over again. Prove you’re not a hypocrite and sign to stop her from reposting the same unfunny joke! 

  • Kathy October 28, 2023 (11:35 am)

    Seattle Process on steroids.

  • North Delridge October 28, 2023 (11:52 am)

    I just want to thank everyone who contributed to this week’s comment section, this was some really great stuff!  Possibly some of the most melodramatic exchanges yet, keep up the great work everyone and see you next week!

  • anonyme October 28, 2023 (12:07 pm)

    What a perfect example not only of too little, too late, but a politician talking out of both sides of their mouth.

  • Carol October 28, 2023 (12:43 pm)

    Thank you Lisa Herbold and West Seattle Blog for your efforts.  The thing that has been very frustrating  to me is SPR’s lack of complete information and/or conflicting information.  For instance, WHERE in Lincoln Park is the new processing facility going to be?  I e-mailed and asked about this and was told they hadn’t decided yet!?  Yet in this letter they are quoted as saying it will be in Lincoln Park?  I can not just blindly trust SPR.  I remember their plans to put a zip line in Lincoln Park and cut down all the big trees along California Ave, in Hiawatha Park.  I also think they were the ones who wanted to put a fenced railing atop the bulk heads at Duwamish point, thus ruining the beautiful views of the Sound as one drives or walks the area.   AND of course, we still don’t know if they intend to put an OLA in the meadow next to the proposed Pickle Ball Courts?  I would very much like to hear what the long term plans are for Lincoln Park and hope Mr. Diaz will commit to a public information meeting with Ms. Herbold. 

  • Revilo October 28, 2023 (12:45 pm)

    Vote for Mike. 

  • GBH October 28, 2023 (1:31 pm)

    It’s a little sad to see so many comments on this thread that are hostile to public process and citizen advocacy. Come on, this is Seattle. It’s what we do. Also lots of ageism and sexism in these comments, which is even sadder to see.Opposing these particular pickle ball courts is not a NIMBY issue. It’s actually the opposite. Seattle Parks is clever – they read the room on pickleball. They see the lawsuits all over the country over the psychological response to the rhythmic cadence of pickle ball on the human brain.  They didn’t want a NIMBY fight by placing pickle ball courts in a neighborhood or adjacent to houses. So they took a shortcut, hoping to avoid SEPA and avoid NIMBY outrage by placing the courts in the middle of a mixed-use park on an existing concrete pad, previously a tennis court. They downplayed the extensive existing passive use of this particular part of the park by walkers, birdwatchers and midday blanket nappers– maybe they downplayed it on purpose or maybe it was cognitive dissonance. They thought no one would care about the noise because there are sometimes trucks here, and baseballs, and children playing not far away.  They were wrong.I’m putting aside the potential for lights for a moment because I have no doubt that will trigger a SEPA checklist. Lincoln Park is a dark park. Lights will have environmental impact. The point of SEPA is to force mitigations for those impacts, so parks would be required to install lights that don’t spill and that face down and that are on timers. Anyone who has been involved in a lights issue with Seattle Parks is very familiar with these terms.In the same vein, a SEPA checklist would have to identify noise impacts, both to wildlife and to existing users of the park. And Parks would have to mitigate for that. That might include on / off hours so passive users have some designated hours of the day to enjoy it in silence. It might include some sort of sound absorbers. Etc. All of this happens through the SEPA process.It is good to go through SEPA and to mitigate impacts. It makes everyone happy in the end. It is really a shame that Seattle Parks did not do this.  A checklist is not a lengthy process – it would have added a few months, a year at most. For a permanent structure in the middle of the park that serves 20% of the city’s population, that’s not too much to ask. It is also not too much to ask that our community be kinder in these comments. 

    • HS October 28, 2023 (2:14 pm)

      Agreed. Also, a lot of similar ‘trolling’ comments on the blog over the past 6 months…

    • Sitkas October 28, 2023 (7:31 pm)

      Spot on and very well said, GBH. One of the best comments I’ve read on this entire issue. And regarding lighting. I have no doubt it is the city’s and many pickleball court advocates’  intention to later call for it’s addition, but they are calculating it’ll be easier to do subsequently.  It’s not difficult to think of various arguments they’d use to try justify that, once the courts are up-and-running. But, I firmly believe lighting in that part of Lincoln Park will garner massive opposition, even from those not outright opposed to courts themselves. We shall see.

  • Diversityinpark October 28, 2023 (2:39 pm)

    GBH, to date all Seattle regulators, park officials and now even emerging pickleball Lisa Herbold have confirmed that SEPA  is not  required for pickleball at the established tennis pad.
    At this time it would be irresponsible for the various city agencies to enter a years long process costing tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars.  
    Career civil servants who advised the decisions might be loath to establish a new precedent to appease the few employing wasteful intent to stymy government progress with process.

    • SE Dick October 28, 2023 (4:23 pm)

      Man, if you’d just be frank about your thinly-veiled well-funded very personal agenda you might not so make my blood boil. “Emerging pickleball Lisa Herbold” (forgive them, brave Councilmember, for they know not that 2 and 2 is 4) “understand[s] the analysis and position that no SEPA analysis is needed”, which is more than you can honestly factually say about *anything* but how desperately you want to keep your own courts, but which “confirmed” and said it confirmed nothing. You are crowd size and name-calling, you are private over public, you are as shameless and impenetrable as any spray-tan in the country, and you are in for a reckoning, too.

    • TM October 28, 2023 (5:53 pm)

      A win-win: just follow through with the original, publicized plan: restriping courts at Solstice.

      Diversityinsolsticepark, you can agree that that would cover all the bases- Lincoln Park was already contemplated but ultimately didn’t make the cut after a lengthy, tens of thousand dollars study (Parks’ 2020-2021 pickleball plan). No need for a new study!

      Dramatically less cost and time to execute, actually freeing up bare minimum $100k for other needed projects.  And clearly no SEPA needed in the case of Solstice. Bonus- then we can put these lengthy WSB comment threads to rest! 

      • JustSarah October 28, 2023 (7:08 pm)

        But if the arguments are about how incredibly loud pickleball is, Solstice is much worse for nearby residents. The closest home to the LP site is ~800′ away, through trees and across Fauntleroy. The closest to the Solstice courts are ~120-150′. 

        • TM October 28, 2023 (7:27 pm)

          Solstice is much worse for nearby residents”

          Sarah, this is precisely why Diversityinparks has waged his campaign so fiercely.

          Despite pooh-poohing and downplaying concerned neighbors’ concerns about noise impacts in the park, he knows the noise impacts are in fact real. And because he lives next to Solstice, pickleball there would dramatically affect his quality of life, and the ability to keep his courts tennis-only, as tennis is his sport.

          The voluminous and varied posts, claims and dismissals he has made boil down to one thing: he abhors the idea of pickleball at Solstice. And rather than own up and work towards solutions, he relentlessly slanders the folks who are truly concerned about Lincoln Park and pickleball impacts there. 

          • SE Dick October 28, 2023 (9:00 pm)

            Or, Sarah, (this person is *so* much better-moderated than I that I deleted the rant I just wrote) maybe read and process some of the better info and arguments that have been offered in the 500+ posts before this. TM’s are almost always measured and moderate and even-handed; ‘almost’ only because rarely they’re frustrated. But they’re always saying: ‘let’s talk it over. There are more interests to consider here than pickleballers’ and Divertdisturbancetopark’s or homeowners’, or park users’ or wildlife defenders’ or tennis players’.’ (Actually that might be abt it.) But TM’s always saying, ‘lotta ppl arguing, let’sstop and sort it out. Let the cards fall where they may.’ That’s a reasonable person, who wants whatever’s right. I’d listen to them. I just did–hit my backspace. If yer argument’s “But if,” and you actually want to know, go look above. You don’t even need to find another ‘TM’: right up there GBH in a very statesman-or-woman-like way puts the whole mess to bed. Not what Divert wants to hear, not the ballers–either ‘community’, a misnomer I hate–but what all the ppl who haven’t been heard want to hear, whether they’re speaking for themselves or for birds: that they’ll be heard, and be part of the decision the City–the real community–makes. Seems fair and reasonable to me, too. So “but if”? Read away.

          • Diversityinpark October 28, 2023 (10:05 pm)

            Like a dog with a bone, TM has seized upon the  reason for my  support of traditional park use for all, ie diversity as being false.  TM has misconstrued  and extrapolated on my comment that I am a neighbor of Solstice Park, I am also a neighbor of LincolnPark.  The sounds of traffic along Fauntleroy Ave  drown out any pickleball or tennis noises (please see my dB readings) from both LIncoln Park  and Solstice. I have never played pickleball and I have not played tennis in several years since they tore out the courts at Lowman.TB is  incorrect as I live on and  have lived on California Ave in the Morgan Junction neighborhood for several years and I lived in a home at the highest point in Seattle for the 25 years before.

          • SE Dick October 28, 2023 (10:49 pm)

            Wow *that’s* a little late in coming. That’s a little wacky. Looks like I misled ya, TM. Don’t quite know what to make of that. Huh. What?

          • TM October 28, 2023 (11:27 pm)

            TM has misconstrued  and extrapolated on my comment that I am a neighbor of Solstice Park”

            Diversity, I’m sorry that I got you/that wrong. To be honest I was relieved that there was an explanation that made sense of how I’m perceiving your posts. Regardless I hope you can respect that a lot (thousands) of your neighbors also have strong feelings about the idea, they are just different than yours and may be valid.

            It’s rare in the blog to see this much interest and energy around a topic. Lincoln Park is dear to all of us- it’s ok for folks to want to take a closer look before making a significant change. Regardless, if you come down tomorrow please talk with some folks this time! At minimum I think you (and we) would get a sense that the other folks deserve respect. 

          • Diversityinpark October 29, 2023 (3:49 pm)

            Thanks for being civil TM.  
            I did visit the protest this morning  and I wish I could have known who you are.  
            I would have enjoyed a civil discussion and the consensus that many of us are passionate about Lincoln Park.

            I would welcome some of the leaders of this anonymous opposition group to present their data in a public forum?  
            So far the activists are strategically and successfully manipulating the media to great leverage.
            I remain impressed!
            But the tv  and photo images of today’s protest will be a challenge due to low turn out (out of Denise’s claim of 5,000, maybe 50 showed  up to wave signs).

  • Jackson K October 28, 2023 (3:53 pm)

    Can’t wait to work with Seattle Parks and set up the first Lincoln Park Pickleball Tournament. With 6 courts, we can host a full men’s and women’s singles and doubles draw. Details to come! 

  • YIMBYGUY October 28, 2023 (7:02 pm)

    Where can I go to express my strong opinion that they double, no triple, the size of the pickleball court, install bright lights, and allow play 24 hours a day?

    • CarDriver October 28, 2023 (8:00 pm)

      Yimby guy. You’re welcome to gather with like-minded people at Lincoln Park and protest in favor. I’m sure WSB and other media will cover. You do want to go public and show your faces to the cameras, don’t you? You’re willing to put your name on a petition aren’t you? The no to pickleball people do it surely your wanting the courts bad enough will  inspire you to do the same.

      • Diversityinpark October 29, 2023 (3:59 pm)

        No need for counter protest Cardriver, as the promoted protest was poorly attended.  
        We expected several times the number of picketers and more diversity with all the press and the tripling of ‘ditto’ supporters responding to the misleading flyers and social media.

        Like Flat Earthers picketing along Fauntleroy, what is the point of counter demonstrating. 

  • Seawalk October 28, 2023 (8:20 pm)

    Protest scheduled tomorrow, great. We’ll need extra parking. Can we park on the grass, down on the beach? I bought my SUV Subaru because the commercials feature rugged vehicles driving through pristine environments, with names like forester, alpine, bird & orca. Pickle ball was not featured. Don’t get me started on the price of gas. I do love birds in Lincoln Park unless they wonder onto I-90, I-5 or Fauntleroy. 

  • Junction Dweller October 29, 2023 (1:00 pm)

    The Venn Diagram of people don’t want pickleball courts in Lincoln Park, an active multi-use park, and want to rethink the Link, is a perfect circle. The rest of the world will continue to drag them into the future kicking and screaming, which is only slightly louder than a game of pickleball. 

    • SE Dick October 29, 2023 (4:10 pm)

      The Venn diagram of ppl kicking and screaming that an obnoxious game already more indulgently accommodated in Seattle than anywhere else in the wide U.S.–20 courts per 100k, all but 15 other cities 10 or less–is anything but idiotically and outrageously to be situated in the middle of any remaining always pressured treed urban green space, and offer any. Single. Cogent. Logically valid. argument or response to even any one point made by enlightened citizens who demur is The Void. (Or what you thx to Drew Carey would call, cartoonish shadow, ‘nil’.) Those intrusive, empty, chaotic noises down there drag human civilization to its grave.

      • Y'ALL ARE OVERTHINKING October 30, 2023 (4:32 pm)

        Since you ever so graciously told me to shut up, I figured why not do the opposite and look at more of your posts.

        You say Seattle has more than any other city in the US, an astounding 20 courts per 100k people.  I say look at Bend, OR, with a whopping 90 courts for a population just a smidge over 100k. 

        Or how about Orlando, FL, with 128 courts and a population of only 285k.

        Gotta be more careful with that Googling–might want to delve a little deeper else get egg on your face.   

        (now truth be told, the whole discussion of how many courts there are, per capita or otherwise, is stupid–what a dumb way to measure anything.  but since you went there, and for some reason(!?) thought it bolstered your argument–there’s a little air let out of your sails for you.)

        • SE Dick October 30, 2023 (5:53 pm)

          A *little*?! *Everything! Whoosh! Can’t get my breath! I googled ‘u.s. cities most p**b** (not really; I spelled it out. No more.) courts per capita. Google opened the world to me, I (gasp!) clicked on a link, site looked legit to me, I went back, saw that a news source–Axios– familiar to me thought so too, said good enough. Due diligence. Sue me. But the measure? “…per capita or otherwise, is stupid–what a dumb way to measure anything.”  Is stupid? How many beers should we get for the table? My but you must be frustrated. *I* think that p**b** should get every damn keg.

  • Kelsey October 29, 2023 (2:19 pm)

    Our tax dollars are funding genocide, and y’all arguing about pickleball?!

  • Admiral-2009 October 29, 2023 (10:10 pm)

    Just in – headline news in Beijing, China the price of tea has gone up due the conversion of tennis courts to pickleball courts in Lincoln Park Seattle, USA 

  • Patty October 29, 2023 (11:23 pm)

    When I went to the protest today at 11 am on a beautiful, sunny Sunday, three of the tennis courts at Solstice Park were empty. Stripe them for pickleball! The Lincoln Park  site makes no sense!

    • Diversityinpark October 30, 2023 (12:13 am)

      Excellent anecdotal report.  I’ll take that at face value because more than a few commenters claim they are always empty, so it is a relief to hear that they were half full,
      or half empty.  
      Either way, they are popular, sometimes full, sometimes empty (tennis is never played on wet surfaces or in the rain).  
      Tennis is played in longer sets than pickleball, so when the courts are full, tennis players drive to another court because the wait can be an hour
      for players to complete the traditional etiquette of one set.  I understand pickleball to be short games with many more players in the same time frame.

    • Divesityinpark October 30, 2023 (10:04 am)

      Did KT read the local news story referenced?”The painted pickleball lines on one of the community tennis courts, which is about 60 feet from Gleyzal’s bedroom window.” from the tv reporter.  

      Not a peep regarding bird species decimation caused by pickleball!

    • WestSeattleBadTakes October 30, 2023 (10:10 am)

      Using lawsuits as a proof or to make a point is disingenuous. We call it out in many other situations.

      But let’s take it on its face. This article makes a point in favor of Lincoln Park. It is isolated inside of a rather large park. It is not next to anyone’s house.

      Arguments against any noisy activity can be made soundly, what makes this laughable is the hysteria, lies, and pseudo-environmentalism. 

      If you want to be taken seriously, make better arguments and at least pretend to apply them consistently. They are there if you apply yourself and rely less on emotions.

  • SE Dick October 30, 2023 (3:21 am)

    Nope. Too late. Too fed up. Twice on the Oxford link. Here’s the second, of this post, from Audubon proper. Hate to see the word thx, even in a link, in a msg to you. You are poisoning this process deliberately. Anyone–well. The quiet can see.

    • WestSeattleBadTakes October 30, 2023 (12:38 pm)

      Missing the forest for the trees.

    • SE Dick October 30, 2023 (5:19 pm)

      I failed to attach this to my own 10/30 3:15am direct response up there to DiveersityinparkOctober 28, 2023 11:27 am (subsequently btw there and what’s now here on the scroll DiversityinparkOctober 29, 2023 10:00 pm,  diversityparkOctober 29, 2023 9:47 am,  DiverrsityinparkOctober 30, 2023 11:36 am,  DivesityinparkOctober 30, 2023 10:04 am; –is that right? Are they [pl.] the same? I have no idea what that’s abt) hereafter ‘Divert’, ‘Divertattention’ or ‘Divertadversitytopark’. If I don’t make the connection crystal clear they [sin.] will nvr evr find the links they [sin.] and–are there others?–maybe others are so endlessly demanding be clicked for them [?]. Ask ChatGPT to find ’em, why dontcha tho, I wonder. Ask ChatGPT what all those different Diverts are about. There’s more up higher, to right up near the the top–DiveresityinparkOctober 28, 2023 8:05 am. Buried in disinformation, sure. ChatGPT don’t mind. It’s all part of what made ‘im. (It? Them.)

  • OverIT October 30, 2023 (12:52 pm)

    What have I learned through reading all of this nonsense…West Seattle has the largest concentrated ornithological enthusiast community in the entire US.Community members like to argue with one another until all hours of the wee morning about something that in 6 months won’t even be spoken about in line at a coffee shop.Bloggers love to be armchair experts on topics that on the usual day-to-day they would never bring up in conversation.Pickleball is a rapidly growing sport providing access to an athletic activity for some individuals who may not otherwise be able to participate due to it not being as intense as other athletics, thereby changing perception of exercise for some folks, getting people out and moving and building community; but, let’s tear that down because who wants any of those positive things.And finally, I would bet so much if there was an event, let’s say at WS Summer Fest, where you walk around with your WSB Handle written on a nametag and you mingle with other bloggers, *MOST* would avoid the confrontation because hiding behind a screen and a keyboard is easier than backing up claims in civil conversation. Just a reminder, Seattle streets are increasingly becoming unsafe, theft and violence is only becoming a daily occurrence and innocent humans are being murdered on the world stage…but yes, let’s belabor the great PB war of 2023 in Lincoln Park. 

  • SE Dick October 30, 2023 (5:29 pm)

    By ‘this’ I meant my own 10/30 3:21am post just one up, over the quote from Macbeth (I salute you again, TM). (Confusing enough as it is, right? ChatG, whatta you say?)

  • SE Dick October 30, 2023 (5:32 pm)

    Two up now. Just wanna be clear.

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