Some action taken, more requested, as Alki/Harbor Avenue residents meet with city officials again

By Tracy Record
West Seattle Blog editor

Fewer RVs and greenbelt campers. More traffic calming. “Partnership” with police.

That’s part of what Alki/Harbor Avenue-area residents listed as “accomplishments” when they met with city reps Wednesday night for the fourth time in their ongoing push against crime and street disorder in the West Seattle waterfront area. (Here’s our coverage of their meeting back in December)

But they say there’s work yet to be done. For one, they’re particularly concerned about the increase in gun violence, with the recent shooting deaths of Peyman Shojaei at Don Armeni Boat Ramp and Davonté Sanchez near Whale Tail Park. And they want the city to install signage reinforcing the no-parking hours of 11 pm-5 am. They also want to see traffic calming extended further north/westward toward the beach.

The meeting at Admiral Church was facilitated by Mike Gain (above), one of the leaders of the ad-hoc community group.

City reps in attendance included, above from left, Southwest Precinct Operations Lt. Dorothy Kim (currently acting precinct captain), SDOT’s Bill LaBorde, Unified Care Team rep Tom Van Bronkhorst, Seattle Parks’ Andy Shaffer, and Deputy Mayor Greg Wong (who had to leave an hour into the meeting). The city delegation included other reps from the mayor’s office, SPD, Office of Economic Development, and Seattle Public Utilities.

Another of the community group’s leaders, Steve Pumphrey, showed photo and video examples of what he and his neighbors have been trying to get stopped, including waterfront parties with blasting music in the 3 am vicinity and drivers doing donuts and other stunts. (See his slide deck here.)

Wong told those gathered that he grew up nearby and praised them for organizing: “Showing up means you care about this city.” He insisted that public safety is a priority for Mayor Bruce Harrell and said the increased gun violence is in no small part because ‘we have way too many guns on the streets.” Homelessness is another top priority, Wong continued, saying that the number of encampments had been halved – 800 to 400 – and that the number of people accepting shelter referrals had doubled.

Rather than listen to speeches, Gain said, they wanted to give attendees ample opportunity to ask questions. So that’s where the meeting went from there. First one: With Alki now closing earlier, the rowdiness tends to migrate southeast – especially to the diagonal-parking viewpoint on Duwamish Head – so couldn’t the entire public waterfront stretch close early too? LaBorde said they’ve “looked at it” but they don’t necessarily have capacity for enforcement. Wong points out SPD should have 1,400-1,500 officers and it’s under 1,000. “We need more people we don’t have right now.”

To that point, the next person to take the mic said the mayor’s office does not appear to have enough urgency around police recruiting, having spent very little of what was budgeted for advertising and other means of finding candidates (as reported here and elsewhere). Plus, SPD has long been working without a contract. She wanted to know what the mayor’s office is doing about recruiting and negotiations.

Wong said a “complex set of factors” were involved. Regarding negotiations – he said he couldn’t comment on details but “do know they are ongoing; these things are often protracted.” Regarding recruitment – he said the city had to determine what’s the best place to market. He cited an example that “suburban East Coast towns are approaching New York City beat cops” to offer them jobs. He insisted that getting ads up is only one piece of the puzzle. “We could buy all kinds of ads, that doesn’t guarantee we’ll get more (officers).” He added that the city is looking at their own process – why do people drop out? That’s what they’ve been focused on – “trying to create a more streamlined process internally.” He said some good news in accelerating the time between hiring and deployment is that the State Legislature funded new training academies.

Next person opined that bursts of violent crime come from “car culture” – street racing, etc. – so they thought more traffic calming might equal less violence. Wong noted the speed humps and dividers that already have been installed – “those are the first steps.” LaBorde added: “We see a need for more traffic calming all over the city.” Lt. Kim said SPD works closely with the State Patrol’s street racing task force, and that social media is monitored to see if there are (West Seattle) aspects to be aware of – “we rely heavily on intel.” But, she said, since “we can’t pursue,” the best thing people could do would be to collect plate #s so cases could be built.

The next person stressed that while the traffic-calming features in place now are helping, by the time drivers get to the “straightaway,” it’s “pent-up demand (and) pedal to the metal” – she said she’d seen a reckless driver go around someone stopped for a family in a crosswalk and nearly hit the pedestrians.

Pumphrey at that point said they could start a petition for more traffic calming betwwen Anchor/Luna Park and the Alki business district.

The next questioner wondered why laws weren’t being enforced against people living on the street, considering that he himself had once been threatened with a fine if he didn’t remove a street-side basketball hoop. Wong said state court rulings prevent them from disturbing people who are living on the street if they have no shelter to offer them. Van Bronkhorst then recapped the city’s process for prioritizing encampments for removal, and engaging in outreach with the people who are living in them.

That led to another questioner noting that Harbor Avenue is currently being used by several RVs that follow the 72-hour law by moving every three days. But they shouldn’t be parking overnight, she said. Referring back to previous meetings, she recalled that they had requested an RPZ, but been turned down for that. She said they were offered “no parking” signage for overnight hours. So when, she asked, will they get it? LaBorde would only say, at first, “We’re working on it.” The point was pressed. Finally, Wong stepped in to say that the decision had not yet been made but, “We’ll have an answer back to you within two weeks.”

The neighbors’ “wish list” was brought up at that point, before Wong had to leave:

-Installing 11 pm to 5 am no parking signs on Harbor
-Curtailing park hours all the way down to Jack Block
-Changing entrance exit times and modes at Don Armeni
-Geofence shared scooters and bikes from being used 11 pm to 5 am
-Change diagonal Duwamish Head parking to parallel
-Hire police officers

A subsequent speaker added a request for another speed hump by a nearby condo building, and suggested security cameras. Another person spoke in favor of extending speed humps and other traffic calming further – she lives just past where Bonair meets Alki Avenue, for example. LaBorde mentioned the automated speed-enforcement camera expansion that the Legislature had authorized, and said the mayor’s considering how/whether to deploy that.

Overall, observed the next person at the mic, the process has been frustrating, though SPD “has been great … All these other things we’ve talked about, we talked about in December – you’re ‘looking’ at all these things but nothing ever happens. When you live 24 hours a day (near the problems), it gets really, really difficult.”

Alki should have priority as “the jewel – a destination place” for “so many people,” and if it did get priority attention, everything else would work out, was the next suggestion.

The meeting closed with discussion of a few specifics – Shaffer suggested he could get some “obstructions” installed in the Don Armeni parking area to thwart reckless drivers. LaBorde said they’re still reviewing whether they could convert the diagonal Duwamish Head parking without interfering with the “legitimate use (the area gets) during the day.” And, he said, as they consider extending the traffic-calming features, they need to see how the existing ones are working.

Gain concluded by thanking the ~45 people who had shown up: “Your asking the questions is what’s getting things done.”

43 Replies to "Some action taken, more requested, as Alki/Harbor Avenue residents meet with city officials again"

  • Lifelong WS Resident June 9, 2023 (6:45 am)

    This group of over 150 members efforts, have a list of accomplishments since its inception less than one year ago. The RV’s and encampments are way down. Since December, the city has cleaned up and removed over 14,000lbs of debris, garbage, stolen merchandise, 10 tents and 1 structure from the Duwamish Head Greenbelt Park. Their goal is to bring the Alki area back to the beautiful safe space it once was to be enjoyed by all. “Together We Can Make a Difference”.

  • Smh June 9, 2023 (7:41 am)

    I have lived here my whole life and as we know Alki can get pretty active especially during the summer months but this is nothing new. And homeowners who chose to purchase down on Alki knew what they were buying into. This seems and feels again more like residents wishing to take over and completely control the neighborhoods they bought into. I’m sorry but shutting down our waterfront view of the city completely between the hours of 10:30-5 just is ridiculous and extreme. Violence goes hand in hand with over population no on ever walks out the door saying to themselves I think I’m gonna go bust a cap in someone unless they are some deranged serial killer. Shootings usually always start with done sort of altercation or stem from previous disagreements and I believe in all the shootings that took place down on Alki not one was random. To shut down one of a points of West Seattle nature with spectacular views on accord of residents whims is over board. A city must learn to grow with its city more ppl means more patrol. But for residents to think that can shut down our waterfront completely. Think again. Like I said been here my whole life pay taxes volunteer  for local community clean ups and if I wanna take a midnight stroll or gather around a bonfire with family and friends like we have done for decades than so be it. Closing our public street way on a very public beach that we pay taxes for cause SPD can’t wean out the bad apples during evening hours is not idea. I mean what happened to freedom. If beach walkers are not acting disorderly and are abiding within the codes of law and aren’t being a nuisance under and noise violation then they should have the tax payers right to enjoy that public sector their taxes are collected for. 

    • Lifelong WS resident June 9, 2023 (10:03 am)

      SMH,

      Many of us bought into what was a safe community and knew
      the good and bad of Alki. No one is proposing completely shutting down our waterfront,
      city and bay views. The proposed parking restrictions from 11:00PM – 5:00AM are
      just for certain parking areas strategically located along Harbor and Alki Avenue.
      The goal is to eliminate the overnight parking that has gotten out of control
      over the past few years and allow adequate parking for those to enjoy the area.
      We are not looking for extreme or ridiculous solutions, just solutions. I
      invite you join our group and work with us and the city to develop a solution
      that will accomplish your and our goals. 

      • alki_2008 June 9, 2023 (5:41 pm)

        The no overnight parking would need to be just in those stretches that are not near the condos or townhouses, because there are residents and their visitors in those properties that park on the street overnight. Punishing residents because of the RV’s is unfair and does not garner support from local residents.

    • WW Resident June 9, 2023 (10:34 am)

      No one walks out the door and thinks they’re gonna bust a cap unless they’re a deranged serial killer? God you’re naive

    • Anne June 9, 2023 (10:58 am)

      Instead of throwing out inaccuracies-why don’t you join the group & be part of the solution. 

      • alki_2008 June 9, 2023 (5:42 pm)

        What group?  Are you saying that only people in the group can express their opinions?

        • A. C. June 10, 2023 (5:48 am)

          Hello, I am a local home owner and business owner on Harbor Ave, May I please join your group? If you could please let me know where or how I can find more relevant info.  thank you

          • WSB June 10, 2023 (11:31 pm)

            I got the same question via email so I asked Mike Gain, who replied: “Anyone wanting to join our group can do so by requesting to join the Harbor-Alki Neighborhood Group by sending their request with their name, address, condominium building if applicable and email address to:
            neighborsharboralki@gmail.com

    • Eldorado June 9, 2023 (6:16 pm)

      1000% agree with you. Closing public streets (with their inherent beautiful views and Puget Sound maritime air) and limiting access to everyone except ‘residents’ sounds an awful lot like a gated community using our tax dollars. 

    • Alki for all June 10, 2023 (11:58 am)

      I’m tired of having to dodge speeding cars, drug users in parked cars and broken liquor bottles, needles in the parks and streets and no community should have to accept that! The waterfront is a place for all and should be enjoyed, but within reason. I find it disturbing that people complain that those residents who live on Harbor and Alki should forgo safety, and noice disturbances in the wee hours of the night. They put up with a lot during the daytime. Everyone has access to the parks and parking at normal day/night hours. All neighborhoods expect to sleep in their own homes in peace at certain points of the day. This community is no different than yours. Frankly speaking these residents are not asking for much! An 11pm-5am no parking and loitering is not much to ask. Those who want to party, drink, do drugs, speed, crash cars, etc should do so in their own neighborhoods and homes since a public park and community such as Alki trail should not be that venue. Safety for all should be the primary focus including the residents of Harbor and Alki. 

      • Kyle June 10, 2023 (1:51 pm)

        Alki for all, except at night when you want it only for residents. Can you imagine if downtown residents said they wanted to get rid of night time parking and people were too loud visiting bars, etc. 

        • Alki for all June 10, 2023 (9:08 pm)

          Even those Living in downtown Seattle want some peace and quiet and they should have it at certain times of the evening. Everyone plays a role in making our communities safe and enjoyable, as such go home and party to your hearts desire and don’t affect others. 

  • Alki Jack June 9, 2023 (8:38 am)

    The speed bumps are working, but more are needed, they need to be extended. They should run from Salty’s to 65th Ave. SW. The speed limit is 25 mph. If you are obeying the law they aren’t a big deal. The loud exhaust systems made to backfire and pop upon quickly letting off the throttle are extremely annoying to the majority of citizens both living there and trying to enjoy Alki Beach. The tire burning and stunt driving is out of hand and SPD needs to make this a priority. 

    • Danimal June 10, 2023 (12:54 pm)

      Do you realize that adding MORE speed humps wil just make the popping and banging worse? Every single time they come up to a speed hump they’re going to have to decelerate for the hump, after having raced at full throttle from the previous one. I for one don’t want speed humps anywhere else than they already are; they’re tearing my car up as it is. I should start filing claims with the city when my brakes and shocks and alignment go out.

      • YT June 11, 2023 (8:22 am)

        What do you mean the speed bumps are tearing up your car. You could probably drive over them at 25 mph, which is the maximum speed allowed by law, with no issues whatsoever. Slowing from 25 to 10-15 mph would only require letting of the gas, or a very light tapping of the brakes. Are stop signs and traffic signals also tearing up your car?

  • Dooh June 9, 2023 (9:14 am)

    It seems to me that this has been going on for over 25 years that we have lived here.  You people bought those house on Alki.  What did you expect? People dancing in the streets,  instead of cars. This is to be expected every year and everyone makes a huge deal about it. Our population has grown over the last 25 plus years and is only going to get worse. The youth of today are a lot different than even a few years ago. They need places to go like you did when you were young. It seems to be a lot of privilege going on for a part of the city that you moved too. Demanding the police do something about it,  when everyone knows that isn’t possible with the officers we have now.  They are worked thin and to be consistently ridiculed daily by people on this blog. We are lucky to have the police force we do. 

  • Foop June 9, 2023 (9:18 am)

    If Alki really is a gem to be enjoyed by all, close off the road to cars between 59th and 63rd during the day so people can enjoy sitting outside at the many restaurants without having to deal with exhaust and noise pollution from the hundreds of cars cruising the beach.

    • bill June 9, 2023 (10:26 am)

      Alki as a walking zone would be awesome!

      • Anne June 9, 2023 (11:00 am)

        It already is a fine walking zone-don’t need to be in the street to enjoy walking there. 

        • StuckInWestSeattle June 9, 2023 (12:37 pm)

          Right? The walkers have even taken over the bike lanes along the beach almost impossible to get through there in the summer. What I would Like to see is them remove the grass all the way to the seawall and extend the walkway to be similar to along the beach so that people can pass side by side. I walk and run there a lot and I think the sidewalks are too narrow. I think that along with removing the ugly super tall floodlights and replacing them with smaller aesthetic light poles would do wonders. you could increase them in frequency as a safety issue too.

        • bill June 9, 2023 (10:31 pm)

          It would be far more enjoyable without fumes and noise from cars.

      • Bjorn Madsen June 9, 2023 (11:32 am)

        Making it a walking zone is a good idea but also remember it will be hard to get goods and services in there. If there’s no parking I charge a lot more to serve customers because walking a block or more adds a lot of time.

        • bill June 9, 2023 (10:35 pm)

          Oh please why does this have to be explained every time a walking zone is proposed? Obviously commercial access has to be provided. There could even be commercial-only hours which should make deliveries easier.

      • Frog June 9, 2023 (3:57 pm)

        Totally not awesome.  Make Alki Ave. a walking zone, and you create a traffic nightmare for the rest of the neighborhood.  It would be typical Seattle — create a premium environment for the most privileged owners of the most expensive properties, and push the problems on everyone else.

        • Foop June 10, 2023 (4:25 pm)

          I don’t live on Alki, and as it is today I won’t drive there. I’ll take a bus or bike down, but I have no reason to be because it’s completely unenjoyable with all the cruisers and limited space to sit away from traffic. The area I proposed above is mostly businesses so I don’t understand this obsession with how only locals will benefit.Walking and rolling zones benefit everyone.

    • Eldorado June 9, 2023 (6:18 pm)

      Preposterous! We already have a humongous walking zone. 

      • bill June 9, 2023 (10:36 pm)

        The road is a humongous driving and parking zone.

        • Eldorado June 10, 2023 (8:36 am)

          That’s what roads do, and that’s what the parking on the sides are for, which allow cars to stop, park, get out, and walk to places so they can spend money and enjoy talking with friends and family whilst enjoying addictive, but legal substances like alcohol, coffee, chocolate, pizza, and burgers. 

  • Gaslit June 9, 2023 (9:19 am)

    Someone compared a person living on the street to a basketball hoop…Alki residents are the best. Also, we can translate “car culture” & we know what it means. Guess what folks, you live in a city. There’s going to be noise, especially in a crowded popular area. Move to Mercer Island & you can get everything you’re hoping for. 

  • snowskier June 9, 2023 (11:43 am)

    I like the ideas of speed bumps, no parking signs late at night and creating an access solution to Don Armeni as these are all low cost, easy to implement solutions. The car club crowd doesn’t seem to enjoy speed bumps on their lowered vehicles, see the disappearance of them along Constellation Park as proof.   Lock some of those guys in the boat ramp with tow trucks at the ready then ticket or tow the rest right away a few times to get the point across.Not a fan of closing vehicle access to Alki, there’s a large pedestrian walkway and bike path for a reason and they work. 

  • B June 9, 2023 (12:38 pm)

    How do we request speed bumps on 60th between Alki & Admiral. Cars are always driving 40-50 mph down this road, and it’s so scary.

  • True North June 9, 2023 (1:41 pm)

    While all of the input is respected and needed, I feel the need to address some of the outright ignorant comments. The late night activity on the beach is activity that is not just teen agers needing a place to go. These are full grown adults who have very expensive automobiles (talk about privilege)  that are race track worthy. Yes there are some who come out especially in the summer, to enjoy the beach in hot weather and who appreciate the view, however, the problem on which we are actively  working, along with the SPD and other government entities to resolve, is also the reason why fewer and fewer people come out at night to enjoy the area, they are afraid of being attacked, run over, having their vehicles vandalized and/or being SHOT! The problem people are selling drugs, taking drugs, drinking to excess, having competitions to see who has the loudest engine, or can produce the most back fire pops, dangerously race the e-bikes and scooters , do stunt driving, play music so loud the residents windows rattle and televisions cannot be heard over the noise. Try sleeping through any of this type of activity.  The gunplay, murders, shootings and mayhem are certainly NOT citizens out to enjoy the evening or kids looking for a place to go. In addition we suffer numerous break-ins, theft of automobiles and other outright criminal activity. As for the people who bought in the neighborhood knowing what they bought into is simply  a ludicrous statement. First of all not everyone who has purchased or live here are  from here, second any person who lives anywhere has the right to live peacefully, safely and without nuisance.  And, not everyone who lives here is an owner. Roughly 25% of the residential population on the beach are renters, not owners. Additionally, how about the many business owners from the bridge to the lighthouse, certainly not privileged individuals wanting to shut down the neighborhood to outsiders, who are negatively impacted by this activity. Particularly the abject violence which is not inclusive of gun play. There are fist fights that take place, some with knives and other weapons. Finally, absolutely no individual or group of individuals have any desire to shut down the beach or the Harbor/Alki waterfront.  To assume that every person living here is a person of privilege is comparable to assuming that every person living in other specific areas of the city are underprivileged. I suspect that the people making these ill informed comments would sing a different tune if they had to deal with this type of criminal behavior every single night of the year in their neighborhood or on their street.  Before you speak, which is your right, do some research, spend time down here any night of the week after midnight, use critical thinking skills if you possess them, and then draw your informed conclusions, after doing those things, make your informed comments instead of displaying your ignorance. Perhaps you might then want to become a member of the group who do indeed CARE about their ENTIRE city, as was stated by Deputy Mayor Wong. A group of people who want the ENTIRE city to be returned to it’s former status as being one of the most livable, friendly and safe in the country. 

    • alki_2008 June 9, 2023 (5:49 pm)

      You are the second person to mention a “group”.  What “group” are you referring to and how does someone join it?

      • Mellow Kitty June 9, 2023 (8:45 pm)

        The group is mentioned in the first paragraph. A few sentences in is clarification the group is ad-hoc. Read more than the headline and comments. 

  • Stephanie June 9, 2023 (1:43 pm)

    What ordinance is it that RV ,s can’t park over night??? Justva during the day ??? Why???

  • TM7302 June 9, 2023 (2:38 pm)

    At SMH…Wow, you’re all over the place.All parks have hours of when they are closed.  Ever wonder why? To keep vandalism/crime down. We don’t have enough police officers to handle the calls they’re getting now, having them patrol all the cities parks (or just Alki Beach) is a waste of resources. I guess you’ve forgotten that the City Council was head over heels trying to reduce the size of the police force. I agree to an extent that violence goes hand in hand with overpopulation, Chicago comes to mind, but to stretch an already thin police force to patrol parks is as you say “ridiculous and extreme.”  If there are fights, alcohol use, speeding and shootings in parks then a way to control those situations is to limit access to those areas. Unfortunately, the “democratic” way is to restrict access to all rather than just a few.  I mean, who do you restrict? All except those that live there?  Maybe only those that live in White Center?  Maybe only restrict those who don’t look like an Alki resident?  See where this is going?I’m sorry that you can’t have bonfire or midnight strolls on the beach but the taxpayer in me would rather have police officers reporting to 911 calls more quickly (those targeted  shootings for example) as opposed to policing parks which can be largely controlled by restricting the hours of operation.

    • alki_2008 June 9, 2023 (5:58 pm)

      Memorial Day weekend had gunfire incidents in the overnight hours, but most other gunfire incidents (including Whale Tail Park fatality) were during the daytime. Closing the beach at night doesn’t change that. It also doesn’t change the fights that happen when intoxicated people leave the restaurants/bars at closing time and get into fights.

      Having the police drive Alki Ave and enforce the noise restrictions around 3am would be helpful, as that seems to be when people like to gather and play music out of their cars and the bass from their speakers wakes up residents near Duke’s. Unfortunately, the police non-emergency line has said they can’t send anyone over unless there are weapons visible. Not saying cops needs to hang out and drive the stretch back-and-forth all night, but just pass through once or twice a night to have people stop their offensive (loud) behavior when neighbors are trying to sleep.

  • Runner June 9, 2023 (3:27 pm)

    What Alki needs is for people to be held accountable for their actions. Follow the laws already in place and most of the issues can be solved. Speeding, reckless driving, noise, drugs and alcohol, etc. as for the comments that say this is how it’s always been so just accept it, really, that’s your argument for allowing unsafe, reckless behavior?  

  • Kyle June 9, 2023 (9:04 pm)

    The amount of hyperbole in some of these comments and the groups demands are astounding. Most of the proposed solutions hurt law abiding citizens as well. Do better to craft more precise change instead of blunt blanket rules.

    • Alki for all June 10, 2023 (10:49 pm)

      There is no hyperbole! Every community deserves a safe and peaceful environment especially at the wee hours. What’s wrong with having a safe and quiet zone from 11pm-5am? 

      • True North June 11, 2023 (12:14 pm)

        No hyperbole indeed! Right this moment, I am sitting inside my home and what I hear is music so loud it’s as though it is right here inside with me. These things that happen during the day, with the exception of the violence, are tolerable and expected in a community that imbues a resort atmosphere.  I truly wish the sentiment shared by Kyle regarding hyperbole were true. I could live blissfully knowing that all these night time issues are just some persons,  imagination, some persons exaggeration. Sadly,  every word expressed regarding the night time activities is true, it is Kyle….. reality. 

  • Alki Jack June 10, 2023 (12:07 pm)

    Almost everyone who has commented likes the idea of adding more speed bumps. They are working, there just needs to be more. They need to add them from Salty’s to where they start now and extend them from Anchor Park to where they start down near the restaurants. If you are doing the speed limit, they will not bother you. I just don’t know how to get the city to do this. If it’s just funds, I’ll contribute and I’ll bet all the residents on this stretch will also. 

Sorry, comment time is over.