UPDATE: Harbor Avenue RV-less, and what’s next

11:23 AM: As reported here, a city rep told the Southwest Precinct Crime Prevention Council last week that the Harbor Avenue RV zone would be swept toward “the end of the month,” and then we discovered no-parking signage last weekend announcing “remediation” for today and tomorrow. So we went by this morning and found the entire stretch of Harbor devoid of RVs and trailers (among other vehicles); eight RVs/trailers were there as of earlier this week. We went through first north/westbound at 9:40 am and noticed a few police/Parking Enforcement officers milling; when we went back the other way at 10 am to record the video above, even they were gone. (The work crew toward the end was not related – they were digging in the road, not alongside it.) As of earlier this week, eight RVs/trailers were on Harbor – so where did they go? We checked 16th SW immediately afterward; no change there from the past few days. We’ve received two unsolicited reports via our hotline so far this morning otherwise – one caller says someone was towed to Beach Drive near Me-Kwa-Mooks Park; someone else texted, “The pallet RV, semi, and newer RV from the Harbor Ave RV camp have been towed over to 26th behind the tennis courts of the Delridge playfields.” We haven’t verified those yet but will be checking later, and we also are inquiring with the city for formal word on city-ordered tows (if any) from Harbor.

8:55 PM: The city’s homelessness-response spokesperson Linda Robson answered our followup questions this evening:

Periodic outreach has been ongoing for many months, and the concerted outreach effort started on Jan. 18. In the lead-up to the remediation work done today, a total of 10 individuals were engaged and offered shelter, and while none of the shelter offers were accepted, all of the individuals voluntarily left the work zone area before 10 a.m. this morning when remediation work began. Our crews found two RVs, one bus, two motorcycles, four utility trailers and four vehicles on site this morning before work began, and all were voluntarily moved out of the work zone, so no vehicles were towed. Nearly 1,800 pounds of debris was removed from the site today.

Unified Care Team staff are still working with community members and exploring various strategies for managing parking along Harbor Avenue SW, including potentially extending the temporary no-parking restrictions, or possibly creating a Residential Parking Zone. There are numerous residents in the area, but also several businesses, so discussions in the community are ongoing as we work on identifying strategies that balance the diverse parking needs in the neighborhood.

83 Replies to "UPDATE: Harbor Avenue RV-less, and what's next"

  • Steven February 23, 2023 (11:41 am)

    Soon to be on seen on 16th/SSCC.  

    • Ada February 23, 2023 (1:21 pm)

      There were already a 4 or 5 back up there on Tuesday night

    • SSCCneighbor February 23, 2023 (5:17 pm)

      As of 5 PM, there are now 13 vehicles/RVs in front of SSSC. 4+ were not there at 8 AM.

  • Mike February 23, 2023 (11:57 am)

     “The pallet RV, semi, and newer RV from the Harbor Ave RV camp have been towed over to 26th behind the tennis courts of the Delridge playfields.”So next to kid play areas…. brilliant 

    • AMD February 23, 2023 (1:54 pm)

      Are you implying all homeless people are child predators, or do you think kids should not have to look at poor people?

      • FFS February 23, 2023 (2:43 pm)

        Are you implying that those are the only two implications that would outrage you?

        • AMD February 23, 2023 (5:41 pm)

          I’m mean any meaning behind that sentiment is ridiculous, I just don’t understand why people start clutching their pearls when homeless people are within view of children.  What is so different about unhoused people from their housed peers that someone has to chime in with a “*gasp* THINK OF THE CHILDREN” whenever the topic comes up?  Mike is clearly indicating poor people are somehow a danger to kids, in a way that people with houses are not.

          • Molly February 23, 2023 (9:48 pm)

            AMD, you clearly have a different view of the general areas the RVs set up at. I would totally support someone living in an RV that treats their RV like the community treat their homes- someone who doesn’t do fentanyl in or around their home, doesn’t steal bicycles and chop them up at their home, and who isn’t letting their dogs run/bark at/chase with no leash. Because, based on the article, these 8 RVs produced 1800lbs of trash that had to be cleaned up. There are kids who play soccer at that field every night. It’s ridiculous that you think it’s clutching pearls to not want our kids exposed, or even the risk of exposure to, those things. 

          • Canton February 23, 2023 (11:39 pm)

            If you have children, you would understand. It’s been difficult to explain to my kid why they can’t walk home alone from school nowadays, when I could at that age. It’s the criminality that’s being allowed and no kind of deterrent to those crimes.

          • Ice February 24, 2023 (4:41 am)

            You realize the crime rate is much lower than it was when you were a kid, right? (unless you were a kid around 2015) Perception of crime is just much higher. For better or worse, Parents are just uncomfortable with what failure looks like in our society. Shield little Timmy’s eyes from run down human being living on the side of the road in a dilapidated RV, we can’t let him know the world can be so harsh, he’s not ready.

          • Canton February 24, 2023 (6:36 pm)

            It’s all good. I’ll just send her out locked and loaded, nevermind she’s about 12 years away from legally carrying. The criminals illegal carry, why not my child?

          • Jethro Marx February 26, 2023 (12:51 am)

            If you were a responsible gun owner it’d be fine to teach your daughter to shoot; I don’t know any responsible gun owners who joke about sending their kids to school with a gun. If you were less fearful you could just let your kid walk to school and not act like rv-dwellers are all kidnappers or whatever; she’s learning some weird lessons from you, what?

          • Shadowtripper February 25, 2023 (7:17 pm)

            I question the cost of removal and cleanup of a dozen or so RV’s or campsites each time it occurs.  It seems the same people are just moving from one spot to another creating the need to repeat the cleanup.  Why not pay these people to get up every morning at 8 am, provide morning coffee and rolls,  then a bus to take them to areas that require liter removal, weeding and graffiti removal for an 8 hour day, 5 days a week.  Provide hot lunches, gloves and coveralls, weekly paychecks in line with someone working at union wages.  If they refuse to work they must enter a drug treatment facility, psychiatric care facility or if physically impaired just count the number of sacks of garbage and graffiti lettering removed.  It would cost a whole lot less than the cost of repeating the cleanups and give the people a leg up in regaining their ability to move on with life.  It would be interesting to see who shows up for work and how many are moved to treatment centers for drug and mental issues.  Either way the streets of Seattle become cleaner, trashless and free of illegally parked vehicles and encampments.  

      • Phillip February 23, 2023 (2:55 pm)

        AMD, did you deliberately choose the least charitable interpretation?

      • Adam February 24, 2023 (8:33 am)

        I’m with AMD, we can’t treat them all like criminals. Many just need houses and jobs which is why I approached pallet-guy and stolen-tool-dude and inquired about their past babysitting experience. 

  • CarDriver February 23, 2023 (12:01 pm)

    Can verify one rv was towed to Me-Kwa-Mooks from Harbor by a white Chevy pick-up this morning. A trailer that was on Harbor is there also. Both on the water side of the street. Also, curious why nobody has volunteered to host any of these rv’s. Reading previous WSB articles there were a lot of people expressing concern for these people.

    • WS Res February 23, 2023 (2:52 pm)

      Also, curious why nobody has volunteered to host any of these rv’s. ”  That’s not the clever flex you think it is, but do what you need to do to feel comfortable.

      • Adam February 24, 2023 (3:28 pm)

        Thank you for providing solutions rather than just telling others theirs won’t work without any reason why. Thank you, Captain Courageous. 

    • Scrounger February 23, 2023 (3:05 pm)

      Some of us “concerned people”  don’t own houses or have driveways to offer….

      • Barton February 23, 2023 (4:19 pm)

        But I’m fairly certain that a lot of keyboard warriors that are quick to berate those that consider it a safety issue in front of their homes and the businesses they would like to frequent DO have houses and/or driveways.  It’s very easy to cast stones until it is affecting your own daily life. And of course, not all of those living in RVs create unsafe situations but let’s not kid ourselves – many do.

        • Ya February 23, 2023 (11:09 pm)

          I second and third and 4th this

  • WSeattlite February 23, 2023 (12:04 pm)

    Lets take bets how long until one RV then quickly after 10 RV’s reappear here again… They have been cleared / moved along before and just reappear days or weeks later it seems. Once one RV parks there unlawfully it seems it doesn’t take long for word to spread to fellow RV dwellers to move their RV’s to the location as well. The city needs to stay on top of this and enforce it when it’s just one RV instead of waiting until it’s 10 RV with trash surrounding them. This goes for Harbor Ave SW and other locations such as the growing encampment of vehicles, tents and trash at the 1st Ave S bridge underpass along W Marginal Way S. 

  • drahcir61 February 23, 2023 (12:17 pm)

    Out of sight but not out of mind, I’m still wondering about all of those wooden pallets.  I mean, stacks upon stacks of wooden pallets sitting there in a trailer on Harbor Ave for the past six months, never moved an inch until now.  I collect wine but I’ve never heard of anyone collecting wooden pallets … who knew?

  • Scrounger February 23, 2023 (12:19 pm)

    I was on Harbor Ave from about 8 until 10:30 (supporting the swept residents with coffee/ breakfast and gasoline .) Pretty certain that nothing was towed away.  Where did folks move to? Well, of course they just moved to other streets that they will soon be chased off of.  One RV resident told me that they have worked with outreach,  and that they “desperately” want housing but haven’t been referred for any.  The need for a safe parking lot (with onsite management and services) is urgent, and city isn’t acting like it’s an emergency. LIHI has been sitting on $2M for a safe lot….they’ve had that money for many months, claiming they can’t find a site. How about cleaning up the state-owned site @ 2nd and Michigan (under the 1st Ave bridge) and letting people park there? 

    • Scrounger February 23, 2023 (3:10 pm)

      To clarify my comment, nothing was towed away by the city.

    • Pinto February 23, 2023 (3:24 pm)

      That is the most proactive and empathetic comment I’ve read about this issue. The tiny angle fluttering above my left shoulder commends you, however, the little devil perched on my right wonders if they work legitimate jobs or are they part of the fentanyl scene at Alki that has taken several lives.

    • Resident February 23, 2023 (10:02 pm)

      In the original story, all of these people were offered housing of some sort, and they all turned it down. So I have a feeling that the people you spoke to in the RVs are not telling you the truth. They were offered housing and they turned it down.

      • WSB February 23, 2023 (11:43 pm)

        No, the story did not say they were offered housing. The city rep says they were offered shelter. There is a difference. “Shelter” can mean as little as a nighttime mat on the floor at a shelter downtown. Housing is something else entirely – a place to be long-term. I realize we haven’t explained that nearly often enough. Whether you think the difference matters, is up to you, but there’ve been citations that vehicle dwellers will accept tiny houses, for example, though they are considered “shelter” rather than “housing,” much more often than they’ll accept mat-on-floor type shelter. Caveat, I do not have specifics on what was offered in this case, but the city spokesperson said “shelter” – what’s above is a direct quote – TR

        • WS Res February 24, 2023 (8:37 am)

          Thanks for trying so hard to make this clear, WSB. The difference really matters. Especially right now, when “shelter” means being pushed out into sub-freezing weather at 6am, now minus your possessions that might help you survive the day.

  • Sad in Seattle February 23, 2023 (12:31 pm)

    Without a plan to help people in need and provide more affordable housing, these actions are just forcing people without resources to relocate over and over. They amount to city-sponsored harassment and feels like a giant waste of my taxpayer money.

  • Jns February 23, 2023 (1:02 pm)

    Just drove by, looks amazing. KEEP OUR STREETS AND SIDEWALKS CLEAR of this refuse!

    • PotKettleBlack February 23, 2023 (3:29 pm)

      Um, did you just refer to people as refuse? 

      • Eyeroll February 23, 2023 (7:10 pm)

        Literally, did not

      • Resident February 23, 2023 (10:04 pm)

        Why would you jump to that conclusion? They removed over 1000 pounds of trash. It says it right in the story.

      • Rick February 24, 2023 (9:01 am)

        Do you need some more gas for that fire. Prices have dropped, you know.

  • SpencerGT February 23, 2023 (1:06 pm)

    I feel like harbor is one of the better places for them to be. Maybe marginal?

  • Carson February 23, 2023 (1:20 pm)

    Needless to say as long as the 72 hour parking rule isn’t enforced then anyone who gets a parking ticket for anything has a valid argument for dismissal 

    • Sweetiebee February 23, 2023 (10:42 pm)

      It’s worse actually, I had a judge tell me if you don’t appear to be ‘unhoused’ during the video court you have to pay the ticket. The equity exception has been only for unhoused people.The only loophole he indicated is if the officer doesn’t file/process the ticket properly. 

      • flimflam February 24, 2023 (11:31 am)

        Wow. So there literally IS two sets of laws. Great.

  • 937 February 23, 2023 (1:35 pm)

    WHO is doing the towing??

    • WSB February 23, 2023 (1:45 pm)

      I have that out as a followup question for the city, how many tows were city-ordered versus owner-ordered.

      • CARGUY February 23, 2023 (2:04 pm)

        There is a white 3rd gen crew cab dodge pickup (appeared plateless) with heavily damaged drivers side door Ive seen towing RV’s from spot to spot. Dangerously with a loose 25ft chain dragging. Saw it move an RV from south 26th ave to north 26th ave next to Nucor the other week and quickly skidaddle away after dumping it. Took a photo since it was absolutely ridiculous to witness. Dont know how they crossed genessee without causing an accident.

    • Paul February 23, 2023 (1:49 pm)

      I have seen people tow these RVs with personal trucks, which I might add, are clearly not set up to tow these units.  They are usually older beat up trucks that are moving very slowly, so that explains why they don’t go too far.  I have witnessed this in many areas of the city.  Usually during the evening or late night so that people don’t really see what is going on.  

      • Jay February 24, 2023 (3:19 pm)

        Last week I passed an RV being towed with a 90s Honda Civic hooked up via a tow strap.  I passed it on my bike, so it wasn’t going fast. Wondering how it stopped.

  • skeeter February 23, 2023 (1:46 pm)

    My morning commute is along 26th Ave SW and I can confirm there were several RVs there this morning that weren’t there yesterday morning.  

  • Lol February 23, 2023 (1:54 pm)

    Lol We’ll see them back on harbor Ave tomorrow. Nothing changes. 

  • anonyme February 23, 2023 (1:59 pm)

    If the vehicle isn’t drivable, it can’t be on the street.  That included trailers.  Or so states yet another unenforced law.

    • Admyrl Byrd February 25, 2023 (9:25 pm)

      “They’re not laws, they’re more like guidelines.”Capt’n Jack Sparrow, SPD

  • Scarlett February 23, 2023 (2:14 pm)

    That fact that many RVer’s are now located in an industrial area, such as the the 1st Ave bridge, and away from their precious neighborhoods should appease the pitchfork people here, but of  course it doesn’t.  This, of course, should be no surprise to anyone.   

    • Buttercup February 23, 2023 (4:53 pm)

      You do realize this is where they have found over 150 stolen vehicles. The last few months. 

      • Scarlett February 23, 2023 (6:34 pm)

        Did you miss my point, Buttercup?  In case, you are pretending to not to achnowledge what underlies a lot of this supposed “concern” over RVer’s, let me give you a nice, fancy German word that sums it up: ‘Schadenfreude.’   Look it up if you’re not familiar with the word.  

        • Canton February 23, 2023 (11:45 pm)

          You don’t take one hazardous site, and relocate it to a superfund site…

        • Burger February 25, 2023 (4:26 pm)

          Scarlett, are you serious?? You’re saying this person enjoys it when bad things happen to other people because they called out that the vehicles have moved to another place that is equally unacceptable for them to occupy, because of the obvious criminal aspects of that new (old) location? That’s a huge and silly leap to make. Other commenters say you have a chip on your shoulder – that appears to be true. Do you really think that wordsmithery, inaccurate accusations, and venomous sarcasm are ways to get what you want?? Do better. And for the record, I want to see all the RVers housed, and I want them to stop dumping their trash and hoarded belongings all over the place around their “domiciles.” I tolerate the RVs as well until they start being trashy and environmentally destructive neighbors. Take it down a notch.

  • CM February 23, 2023 (2:34 pm)

    Now 3 at Emma Schmidt/Me Kwa Mooks, all ones recognized from Harbor Ave

  • Anne February 23, 2023 (3:15 pm)

    “ pitchfork people” ?  Wow. 

    • Scarlett February 23, 2023 (4:30 pm)

      Yes, “pitchfork people.”  The literary allusion is clear and appropriate – don’t be obtuse.  

      • IsThatSarcasm February 24, 2023 (12:20 am)

        How about you drop the obtuse wordsmithery and just come out straight out with your accusations in plain language?A person in an RV is not a problem. Drug use. Criminal behavior. Trading in stolen goods. Excessive littering and making sideways and green spaces unusable. Those are some of the problems. So what should these pitchfork people do when confronted by these problems?

      • WSEnvironmentalist February 24, 2023 (9:14 pm)

        OMG, Scarlett.  Pitchfork people?  Wishing Schadenfreude?  It seems that you have a big chip on your shoulder.  Whatever your issues are, I am sorry for you and I hope that you will find peace of mind sooner rather than later.

  • Alki Resident February 23, 2023 (4:26 pm)

    I can’t wait to drive down Harbor Ave! They may be back but we all need to stay on top of reporting issues to the city. I personally don’t have a problem if RVs are kept in good condition and trash free and moved in 72 hours. Unfortunately this has not been the case. 

  • TJ February 23, 2023 (6:23 pm)

    Yes, a “precious” neighborhood is not where dilapidated RV’s belong. Most are beyond eyesores. Are they registered with current tabs? Insured? Street worthy? They need to accept whatever shelter and services that are offered. No excuses of why they can’t. If they don’t then enforce the 72 hour rule and ticket whatever violations the RV has. This BS has been going on too long. 

    • Scarlett February 24, 2023 (8:38 am)

      Sure, in the magical world world of unicorns and lollipops you describe everyone would have a house with a white picket fence and live in an idyllic, tidy neighborhood with no messy RVer’s on streets.  Guess what, TJ?  Not everyone lives in that magical world. Not everyone is born into a family with the financial resources to cushion bad choices – that we all make – and not everyone experiences the same setbacks that strung together are nearly impossible to surmount.  

      • J February 24, 2023 (3:39 pm)

        Study tone in arguments. Yours is not effective. Even with some solid arguments. Too bad. You’re not being heard.

        • Scarlett February 24, 2023 (4:36 pm)

          No tone will convince anyone to see a world they don’t choose to see.  And, I won’t coddle or negotiate certain principles.   

    • ttt February 24, 2023 (9:21 am)

      And where are they dumping their waste?

      • Scrounger February 24, 2023 (8:46 pm)

        If there’s a waste tank, the city will come monthly and pump it out, 

    • Rick February 24, 2023 (9:49 am)

      I want to be able to choose which laws will or won’t be enforced. Could move up my retirement by many years.

    • Michelle charon March 4, 2023 (12:26 am)

      The housing some offered is a tiny home shed you can not have visitors even family over. Most sites don’t have a place to park a car if you own one. There is a portapotty and some shared kitchen at most but you can not take most of your belongings with you. Only a few clothes no pics or sentimental things. As for the hazard  conditions how about who ever drives the black van up on 16 stop throwing dog feces everywhere.  And to the f——- who’s  throwing syringes  at the 2  boxtrucks and 5th wheel trailer all over the ground. It’s the housed dumb ass creating that hazard. There’s an elementary school 3 blocks away. Stop the stupidity.  And how are they supposed to move after you popped the truck tires that pull the 5th wheel. Those tires cost over $300. For 1 tire I hope you never have to be in their 👞.  

      • Lisa March 4, 2023 (8:42 am)

        Im so sorry that some housed people are so self absorbed,  clueless and cruel….You’re right that they have no idea what our unhoused neighbors have been through, and they think it can never happen to them….they are wrong on every level; all it takes is a job loss, a serious illness, or even a bad decision (and who among us hasn’t made one?????) When one actually looks up from their phone (or their own belly button) and actually has conversations with unhoused neighbors, one finds that they are people just like everyone else in every way.

  • WSB February 23, 2023 (9:04 pm)

    Story updated with city response to our followup questions.

  • Tracey February 23, 2023 (10:00 pm)

    Poor doggy pooping got caught on video.  There is no privacy!

    • WSB February 23, 2023 (11:36 pm)

      Sorry, we couldn’t go back for a do-over (pun not intended) … had to be back at HQ for a 10:30 phone call.

  • cat February 24, 2023 (9:41 am)

    Wow. Moving the RVs near the Delridge Park/Playground is not OK. This is a priority equity neighborhood and a complete slap in the face for people living in Delridge, Youngstown, and Pigeon Hill. These RVs would never be moved to the million dollar homes in Admiral or the Genesee Hill area or over by Lincoln Park

    • voluntarily? February 24, 2023 (4:25 pm)

      It sounds like the RVs were moved voluntarily?  So I assume they could have moved themselves to Admiral or Lincoln Park?  Or wherever they thought was the next best place?  I agree it would be bad if the city was actually just moving them from one spot to another!  If that were the case all neighborhoods should take turns. 

    • M February 28, 2023 (1:33 pm)

      !!! 

  • Beach Drive Bicyclist February 24, 2023 (11:59 am)

    They may not have moved over by Lincoln Park, but as noted above, a few have been parked at Mee-Kwa-Mooks Park. I can hardly wait for all the trash to be piled on the sidewalks and the grass, ruining the park for all the rest of us. Do any of these people ever actually try to be good neighbors, by keeping their RV-adjacent areas neat and clean? None that I’ve ever noticed.

  • Auntie February 24, 2023 (4:59 pm)

    Saw the trailers on 26th (by the skate park) being towed away today – one full of junk and the other full of pallets. Not sure if the RVs will go next. There is no reason for anyone to accumulate and keep an entire trailer full of broken down bikes and motorcycles. Not part of their home nor necessary for their livelihood. And the pallets – who knows what they had in mind for those. Get rid of them.

  • Neighbor February 24, 2023 (6:37 pm)

    I came across one on the move last night completely blocking 26th Ave. Now that one and a bunch of others are parked on my street.  Not sure how these sweeps are a solution when they just become another neighborhood’s problem. Come take a look at 26th to see what a great solution this was yesterday. We need RV lots with basic hygiene services at a bare minimum. We have tiny house villages with those so not sure why we can’t have the RV lots with the same. Sounds like there is pretty good amount of money for this which I am assuming was taxpayer provided so would love to have that accounted for and see something actually happen on that front. If they can’t make it happen why don’t we use it to get more people into housing.

  • Canton February 24, 2023 (9:22 pm)

    If the city cares, why did they displace and upzone, local mobile home parks?

  • pp February 25, 2023 (3:21 pm)

    A rv showed up in front of my house on the 23rd. I guess I’ll be calling the city outreach department next week so that they know where it is and can help keeping things hygienic as much as possible

    • J February 25, 2023 (5:12 pm)

      Use the Find it / Fix It app. They will send you a follow-up after they take action. 

  • wendell February 25, 2023 (3:23 pm)

    I witnessed the RV and tower of palettes (discreetly hidden under a blue tarp flowing in the breeze) return to Harbor Ave. and park about 2:30pm today. Followed by a similar junker RV towing even more crap, also discreetly under a brown tarp. At least they’re observing the cover your load laws.

  • sna February 25, 2023 (4:17 pm)

    Pallet RV and a few others returned this morning.

  • Scarlett February 26, 2023 (9:12 am)

    No, sorry folks, I’m not taking it down a notch; difficult as it is, this subject needs to be broached:  People do delight in inflicting misery on others and this has been proven in numerous psychological experiments where “normal” people have turned into little torturers.  If you think “delight” is too provocative and subjective, maybe so.   But no, I’m not equating informing on occupants of an RV for violating parking laws, to pushing a button to deliver shock to a participant in a study.  

    But, this a grim reality of the human psyche and we all must fight it at every turn.  So everyone has to examine their conscience and ask themselves how much of anger is legitimate concern over RVer’s that pose a very real threat or hardship to themselves and others – and obviously there are these situations – and how much of it is just satisfying a primitive, maybe unknowingly subconscious, reflex to punish others.   

Sorry, comment time is over.